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I really liked Barkley but one big knock on him is that he is a FINISHED product and simply does not have the upside. Tannehill is still my favorite QB in this class especially when it comes to someone who is able to run this offense. He has the upside and with the right coaching, he will be a star QB in this league.
I believe Holmgren and Shurmur have this pride about being able to take a raw but talented QB and turn him into a great QB like a great blacksmith can take high quality ore and turn it into a Katana.
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Which means no 1st pick QB for the Browns. If RGIII is there when we pick, I bet we trade down with either Miami or Wash.
I was thinking about this same thing this morning. RG3 seems like a Snyder pick to me. I'd be all for an extra 3rd rounder to move down a couple spots and still be able to pick up Richardson, Coples, or whomever we're wanting.
Boy, I would sure hope that we got more than just another 3rd round pick. I would look to get their next year's 1st.
I was just going by the draft value chart. Last I looked they were 2 places behind us in the draft, and that was 200 points - a mid 3rd rounder. If we lose the last 2 and they win 1 or both, then that could certainly turn into more than a 3rd.
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Legend
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I really liked Barkley but one big knock on him is that he is a FINISHED product and simply does not have the upside. Tannehill is still my favorite QB in this class especially when it comes to someone who is able to run this offense. He has the upside and with the right coaching, he will be a star QB in this league.
I believe Holmgren and Shurmur have this pride about being able to take a raw but talented QB and turn him into a great QB like a great blacksmith can take high quality ore and turn it into a Katana.
I wouldn't mind Tannehill as a late rounder... I think he does have a lot of upside but he is really raw...
<><
#gmstrong
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I just think that if you factor in the "QB premium" and the bidding war between Washington, Miami and Seattle that we shouldn't settle for a 3rd.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Yeah, I can understand that for sure. Bidding wars could also help our cause. You might want to add Jacksonville to that list too, been reading a lot that yo gabba gabbert has been worse than terrible and seems to be playing scared. These more friendly rookie deals might make it easier to cut him.
As well, based on the way Jackson has played the last few weeks (while injured to boot) without his starting WRs, I'm thinking Seattle holds pat in early rounds. My early hunch is Seattle takes either DeCastro, Zach Brown, or Whitney Mercilus. This is assuming they re-sign Lynch, otherwise I can see Richardson (if he dropped that far) or Montee Ball.
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*yawn*
Don't like it? Don't come in the draft thread. Seems pretty simple to me.
Oh, I LOVE it. All the experts trading picks - selling us out to get..............................wait, the guy isn't even gonna be in the draft?
I love it! Shows what the board "experts" know.
Do you enjoy sounding like an uniformed moron?
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Practice Squad
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Here's a scenario to think about...If we trade down our 1A pick if RG3 is on the board and somehow manage to get a 2013 first rounder...We could build a team around Colt in the 2012 draft and if he isn't the man with a decent team around him...we could trade our first two rounders in 2013 to move up to take Barkley....
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May I be so bold as say , calling someone a Moron is not in very good taste !
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That sounds like a great plan. But what if the team that has the #1 pick needs a QB. Then we are once again screwed.
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Jim Irsay said tonight that if Manning played football in 2012 it would be for the Colts. So there goes all the Manning to be traded or released stuff that was being reported.
The real question is now what are they gonna do with Luck if they do in fact get the #1 pick. Manning takes 100% of the snaps in practice. The only reps the #2 gets is as the scout team QB. Thats it. You cant have a #1 draft pick taking zero reps for 3 or 4 years behind Manning.
Moral or the story, Colts are about to put that #1 pick up on Ebay.
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In that scenario there is a good chance we wouldn't need to move up to draft a QB. 2013 could be another deep Qb crop - Barkley, WIlson, perhaps Bray, maybe someone else as well. Especially considering your premise that COlt shows us that he isn't the man.
Last edited by Jester; 12/22/11 11:46 PM.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Legend
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Front office people have never lied.
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Front office people have never lied.
Fair point.
I'd argue that Manning is an exception to the rule. I think Irsay has too much love for the guy to dump him for pure business.
The bottom line is business, but I think Manning has a legit shot at being a good OC, and maybe someday a HC. As far as players who understand X's and O's ... he's amongst the top.
Long-term ... the guy warrants loyalty beyond mere loyalty, if that makes sense.
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Perhaps not, but I'd say going into a thread that you obviously have no interest in and posting a "wow you guys are stupid" post is pretty moronic. I don't go into political threads and mock people for discussing situations that will probably never happen.
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So looks like the Vikings have the #1 pick now lol
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All Pro
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So looks like the Vikings have the #1 pick now lol
Actually Indy still has the #1, and probably still will even if Min and STL lose, based on full schedule strength of opponents. Indy needs to win their last game to take themselves out of the #1 slot, with a Min or STL loss.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Well Merry Christmas Colt McCoy. Looks like you get 1 more year to suck ass in Cleveland. Or (maybe hopefully) Seneca finally gets his year to be the bride instead of the bridesmaid.
I'd trade our next 3 drafts in their entirety to move up and get Luck now. But, it won't happen...and we'll get to live with Colt Frye version 3.
And no, I'd rather have Colt than RG3.
What's even crappier is not only does this mean no Barkley and most likely no Luck...but it's one less player for someone to pick ahead of us which means no Blackmon EITHER. One of my two worst-case scenarios I laid out just yesterday.
The Factory of Sadness just keeps right on chugging.
Last edited by GraffZ06; 12/23/11 12:46 AM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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i've said that from the beginning. manning has been that franchise since 99. if he still could play, I don't think they dump him like some ordinary player. Unless Luck demands a trade, I would draft him, and let manning play a few more years.
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I'd rather have a Quarterback than 3 picks.
i just don't see them not wanting our 2 1sts this year, our 2nd this year, and at least our 1st next year too (and probably our 2nd)
if it's the 2 1st's this year and our 2nd. i'd think about it hard. that is fair value and my god there would be an eruption of excitement (which is always fun even when it eventually blows up in our faces)
No kidding, and if we did that we deserve to suck.
If we trade, our 2nd this year has to be kept.
The most I give up is our first rounders this year and next years 1st round pick.
It is far and away the best, condensed, package any team can offer.
If the Colts want to string it out, sure, they could take some teams next 4 years of picks, but I doubt they would want to do that.
The more this goes on the more I want to see what QBs are going to be free agents this year.
Maybe bring in a guy like Jason Campbell and just keep the picks? Flynn??
Something tells me there is going to be a few guys who can come in and do a good job for 5-6 years....maybe more.
I also like Tanneyhill. I think he can be a good QB in the NFL. I'd consider him with our 2nd first rounder.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Damn it Barkley...  Mour...We cannot go QB just because we r done with McCoy...U just can't take the "Next Best"...That's a major gamble and would be right in there with what Minny and Tenn did last year with Ponder and Locker... Now where do we go??? Woops...Hang on a minute...I just now saw Indy won last night...WOW...This is by no means a done deal for the 1 pick... Odds r extremely high that the Rams would be much more open to trade talks than Indy...So that means Indy needs to beat Jax next week...And that means we r at 5 instead of 4 if Jax wins...Hmmmmm... I guess Claiborne's our consolation prize if no Luck...hmmmm.... We still need to offer a Rams team a package of: BOTH 2012 First Rounders 2013 First Rounder A 2nd Rounder in either year Any combo of 4 thru 7's... Secure the QB and hit FA a little heavier than normal... 2 years from now we won't even THINK about what we gave for a FRANCHISE QB and FACE of CLEVELAND!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Well Merry Christmas Colt McCoy. Looks like you get 1 more year to suck ass in Cleveland. Or (maybe hopefully) Seneca finally gets his year to be the bride instead of the bridesmaid.
I'd trade our next 3 drafts in their entirety to move up and get Luck now. But, it won't happen...and we'll get to live with Colt Frye version 3.
And no, I'd rather have Colt than RG3.
What's even crappier is not only does this mean no Barkley and most likely no Luck...but it's one less player for someone to pick ahead of us which means no Blackmon EITHER. One of my two worst-case scenarios I laid out just yesterday.
The Factory of Sadness just keeps right on chugging.
Is it possible that the threat that Barkley could be drafted by the Browns played a part in the fact that he decided to stay in college?
Let's look at this. The way that the FO treated the concussion injury to a QB and the way that the fans and writers have been talking about McCoy, why would any player make the decision to put their livelihood's in danger. He's probably just hedging his bets that the Browns won't be in a position to draft him next year.
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Frankly, I don't understand the hard-on that some of you seem to have for Andrew Luck and what you'd be willing to give up for him.
It simply defies logic! It's mind-boggling!
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LMAO First you spew this beauty of reasoned logic: Quote:
Is it possible that the threat that Barkley could be drafted by the Browns played a part in the fact that he decided to stay in college?
... and THEN you call out another poster on the logic of moving up for Luck?
Nice work dude. Thanks for the laugh! 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Frankly, I don't understand the hard-on that some of you seem to have for Andrew Luck and what you'd be willing to give up for him.
It simply defies logic! It's mind-boggling!
And it's even more Mind Boggling that u don't understand the importance of acquiring what's got a HIGH LIKELIHOOD of being a STUD running your offense... 
Go Browns!!!
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Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, they said that QB's taken #1 in the first round are a 50% proposition, according to ESPN analysis. Only 8 out of 16 have turned out to be worth it. That's 50-50, a coin toss.Throw in the Cleveland factor and it's about 75% probability that Luck busts if we take him.
Jokes aside, I don't think we should trade 3 first round picks for a 50% shot.
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Legend
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Sorry folks, but giving up...
BOTH 2012 First Rounders
2013 First Rounder
A 2nd Rounder in either year
Any combo of 4 thru 7's...
...is just plain "nuts".
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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1st String
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And all those people on here that keep saying "you NEVER pass up a Luck type franchise QB", have to also believe that the Vikes would take him if they get the #1 (and the Rams may have to consider it). If Jax beats Indy next week (assuming we lose out), then we pick 4. The MOST I would go for Luck would be our 2 firsts this year, that's it. We have too many holes to give up nextr years #1. Who exactly is going to block for Luck opr catch his passes if we give up 2 year's drafts? Plus, it also has looked like Luck may dictate where he wants to play ( like Eli) and I doubt we are high on that list.
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I don't see why we'd have to offer a deal like the Falcons gave us to get Luck. Our two No. 1s should do it, given that the team holding No. 1 overall would only be dropping back three slots. No way would I give up next year's No. 1 as well.
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I think Daniel Snyder will drive up the asking price for the number one pick. I see him making some idiotic deal that only he would make for Luck. Also, I agree with those that think the Colts stick with Manning, He will be 36 in March and could go another 5-6 years.I really see them trying to get one more superbowl ring with Manning before he retires. Someone else pointed out, and I think it could be a real possibility that the Colts could be eyeing someone like Richardson in a trade down.
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The amount of people on this board who undervalue the Quarterback position is amazing to me...
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Quote:
The amount of people on this board who undervalue the Quarterback position is amazing to me...
Well, I think many people (including me) might also worry about overvaluing a particular player.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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What in the world are you talking about ? .. For the sake of argument , two wrongs don't make a right .. I really look forward to catching up on the board everyday , but despise the " My dad is bigger than your dad " type of pissing contest that seem to permeate the posts .. All I'm suggesting is a little more civility by ALL ! Merry Christmas to all  
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And all those people on here that keep saying "you NEVER pass up a Luck type franchise QB", have to also believe that the Vikes would take him if they get the #1 (and the Rams may have to consider it).
It's not about not passing a franchise QB, it's about not passing on one if you don't have one. The way to look at it concerning the Rams/Vikings is that they can get far more by trading the pick than they can by dumping their current QB. Plus, Sam Bradford is 1 year removed from ROY and Ponder hasn't even played a full season yet after going 12th. I think either of those teams could be swayed by the right offer. Of course, I think the Colts can as well... like Heckert said, I don't believe that anyone is unobtainable.
We're... we're good?
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Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, they said that QB's taken #1 in the first round are a 50% proposition, according to ESPN analysis. Only 8 out of 16 have turned out to be worth it. That's 50-50, a coin toss.Throw in the Cleveland factor and it's about 75% probability that Luck busts if we take him.
Jokes aside, I don't think we should trade 3 first round picks for a 50% shot.
You can't look at it that way though. Many of the busts had issues that Luck doesn't possess. JaMarcus Russell had character concerns, David Carr had a wonky delivery, etc. If Luck busts, it's not going to be because of character, intelligence or mechanics... to me the only way he busts is if he goes to a non-WCO team and they try to force him into a different system because the WCO is perfectly catered to his strengths.
Looking at it that way, I think Luck has a really high floor in the WCO with a legitimate chance to be a stud. To me, that's worth the risk. Think of all the time, energy and resources we've spent on guys who were much less likely than Luck to succeed. I'd rather end the QB dilemma for good and work on fixing everything else after.
We're... we're good?
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I just don't know about the trading up issue. Part of me says that what is being suggested on the board is too much for one player and another part says if this solves the QB situation for the foreseable future then we pull the trigger.
In the end I guess I will just trust H&H and there judgement. I will say if we do decide to go for Luck I hope we give it all up this year and move on.
I guess Luck, a free agent WR( Jackson, either Vincent or Desean) and DE ( Mathis, Avril etc.) wouldn't be so bad.
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The amount of people on this board who undervalue the Quarterback position is amazing to me...
I would rather not spend 3 #1 draft picks and RUIN Andrew Luck because we can't put a team around him...Because I DO value the QB position THAT MUCH....I would rather WAIT until QB is one of the last few pieces of the puzzle that we need...(and we are so far away from that scenario we can only dream about it) And THEN gamble with the draft picks to get the Big Arm....But if we cannot put the Big Arm into a semi stable situation...all we are going to do is set him up for failure and get him onto the top ten draft bust lists you see on NFL Network.
So in reference to your quote.....the amount of people who would gamble away our only chance at building our team only to set a good player up for failure....amazes me. 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I'd rather see us go after Jason Campbell or Matt Flynn in FA and use our picks this year on enhancing the rest of our squad. Three firsts for one guy is just way too much to pay when our needs far surpass anything one guy is going to bring to the team.
#GMSTRONG
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Average offensive talent + Elite Quarterback > Average Quarterback + Elite offensive talent.
Quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls since 1995...
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisberger
Eli Manning
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
I'll take my chances drafting an elite Quarterback.
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Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are the exceptions.
You want a Super Bowl? You better have an elite Quarterback.
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Hall of Famer
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OP
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Quarterbacks in the playoffs if they started today ...
Tom Brady
Ben Rothlisberger
Matt Schaub (I know, TJ Yates, but Schaub got them there)
Tim Tebow
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez
Tony Romo
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Alex Smith
Matt Stafford
Matt Ryan
That's 12 Quarterbacks ...
8 first round Quarterbacks.
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