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Legend
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In this draft.
Last year the Bengals took AJ Green at #4. Blackmon is not AJ Green. He's not close.
A couple of years ago we took Joe Haden at #7. He was a more developed and all around superior prospect compared to Claiborne. Kahill is a quality T, but is he as good as Joe Thomas who we took at 3 a few years ago?
This draft is deep ... but there are few truly elite talents. I would try to get one of the elite players, or take a chance with one of my high picks and hope I get an elite guy at 4. We should be able to get "good" players from 1B to 4 ..... but we need to swing for the fences at the top and try to crush a grand slam. Singles aren't going to win this division. We need some home runs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
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What mid first round talent. Most boards have both Khalil and Blackmon in the top 3. And with the new slotting, we can afford Khalil at 4.
If not RG3.. then Claiborne is next on deck.. Kalil doesn't make sense @ 4.. no way we get him and put him at RT.
I agree. Pick 1b is where we might look OL.
Claiborne and Haden would make a solid pair.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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I see the point about having another great corner, but this draft is pretty deep at CB. I don't see any problem with plugging Kalil in at RT. What could be wrong with bookend studs on the OL? The QB would have forever in the pocket and we'd be able to run outside. We could have the best offensive line in the NFL if we did that. Plus tackles have long careers and are durable when they are not named Pashos.
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The problem of drafting an RT that high is that it's not worth it. He does not protect the QB's blindside. A RT wouldn't make as much impact on this team as a QB, WR, DE, or even CB would make. At the top of the draft, you go impact players, and an RT is just not that when you have a right-handed QB.
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All Pro
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Well, if we can get a RT later, fine. We just have to get one that doesn't suck, because that killed us this year. If we need impact guys, I say Blackmon or trade down and grab Richardson. I like Claiborne, but this team's problems are on the other side of the ball. We have to use two of our first three picks on offense, IMO.
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After seeing a year of the fragile Hillis and Hardesty I'm ALMOST willing to be happy with Trent Richardson at 4.
I see us going nowhere with those two walking triage RB's.
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Quote:
The problem of drafting an RT that high is that it's not worth it. He does not protect the QB's blindside. A RT wouldn't make as much impact on this team as a QB, WR, DE, or even CB would make. At the top of the draft, you go impact players, and an RT is just not that when you have a right-handed QB.
I feel this is a huge myth -- it used to be true before the advent of exotic blitz packages, and when teams always lined up their best pass rusher on the QBs blind side.
Now, the value of an RT is almost equivalent to the value of an LT -- defenses always attack your weakest link, which makes LT much less valuable than in the past, and the other line positions much more valuable.
~Lyuokdea
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j/c
There is exactly one position that we should be drafting and it is most definitely not RT or Running Back.
Teams with great running backs suck all the time, as shown by the 3 of the top 5 teams having Adrian Peterson, Maurice Jones Drew and Steven Jackson. Wasting a pick on a guy we may use 20 times a game is just flat out not smart, especially when he could be out of the league in 5 years due to durability of the position.
QB or trade down, IMO. I would not be disappointed with the CB from LSU or Blackmon, but really there is one glaring need that must be filled.
you had a good run Hank.
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Dawg Talker
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Great ..... mid first round talent at #4. That would make sense. 
What?? 
Kalil and Blackmon are pretty widely regarded as #2 and either #3 or #4 in this entire draft. You may say "yeah but that's not as good as LAST YEAR" but you can only work with the draft you have. Two of the top 4 players are not mid round talent any way you want to spin it.
I agree we need "elite" talent. There is 1 of those in this draft. Some of us are ok trading the farm so to speak to go get that elite talent, not only b/c he's the only elite talent but it's also at the most important position on the field. But, we need to come to terms that as much as we offer, we still may not get him.
I have a philosophy that with a high first round pick, you have to get the best player available at a specific position. We have to start getting "the best" here and there to become competitive. At QB that's Luck. At OT that's Kalil. At WR that's Blackmon. At CB that's Claiborne. At RB that's Richardson. One of those 5 needs to be a Cleveland Brown (though I hate the idea of a 1st round RB so really it's only one of those 4 to me).
Look, YTown, I know you have a hard on for RG3.....and H&H must just be blinded enough to take him. And maybe he's the rare guy who breaks all the molds and really does work out, but don't poo-poo the idea of any of those other 4 (or 5) players by making stuff up to defend your obsession.
It's exactly why, even though CB certainly isn't our #1 need going into this offseason at ALL....it's still a need...and getting the #1 CB in the entire draft in Claiborne is never a bad thing. You pair him with Haden and all of a sudden we have one of the best starting CB tandems in the NFL. You build with the pieces that are available. Sure I'd rather get Luck and build this putrid offense instead, but it just might not work out that way. Doesn't make it dumb, or a bad draft.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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thank you..excellent post..
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Claiborne is a better prospect than Haden was. Really not that close.
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Quote:
What??
Kalil and Blackmon are pretty widely regarded as #2 and either #3 or #4 in this entire draft. You may say "yeah but that's not as good as LAST YEAR" but you can only work with the draft you have. Two of the top 4 players are not mid round talent any way you want to spin it.
While true...those players still get drafted for the NFL, which means they get compared to those that were drafted before them and play in the NFL....and when you compare Blackmon to AJ or Claiborne to Haden or Kalil to Thomas...well, they come up short....some people could be upset if Blackmon "only" produces at good and not great level like AJ etc etc
While I like Claiborne this draft is pretty deep at CB and we "just" need a #2 and there are plenty of CBs for every round that I think are already or can develop into decent #2 CBs
I agree that the imprtance of the RT position has increased but it's still not a value position for a top 15 pick...especially not for a team like the Browns, who have holes at higher value positions AND already have some decent to pretty good pieces to the OL puzzle....
It's QB or consolation prize Blackmon for me....if both aren't there...trade down and grab DE Ingram
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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just a #2? we need two #1's with all these QB's getting 4000-5000+ passing yards now.
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1st String
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I am an RG3 fan, but I think if the Browns decide to not address the QB position they must select Trent Richardson. If you don't have a QB that can push the ball down the field and takeover a game then you need a RB who can. We all thought Hillis was going to be that guy, but clearly he is not.
Richardson is a game changer. Perfect fit for the AFC North. Speed, vision, and power.
Richardson is the only person I want at #4 if RG3 is gone or not selected. Justin Blackmon is not AJ Green and I don't think he is even a Julio Jones. We can possibly draft Floyd, Wright, or Sanu with our 1b or 2nd.
I am a huge fan of Claiborne, but we need to score points and with the current offense we can't get it done. If I am keeping Colt (or looking at Flynn), I am picking Richardson at 4, Wright at 1b, and a RT or CB like Minnifield, Hosley, Gilmore, or someone who has fallen down the board (maybe Dennard) BPA the rest of the way out.
H&H have their work cut out for them... If we are sitting at #4 and RG3 is there they are going to have a tough decision, RG3, Richardson, trade out....
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Legend
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Richardson won't be a Brown..
It will be either RG3, Claiborne, or Blackmon. I could be wrong, but I don't see Heckert pulling the trigger on a back that high.
I actually see the Browns getting a smaller, faster back... it could work.. ie Jerome Harrison.
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jc
I think the Browns draft strategy at the top of the 1st is actually a lot simpler than what it could have been. Here is what I would do:
1) Make a reasonable offer to move up to #1 to take Luck. 'Reasonable' will continue to be debated but for me, the 3 firsts is pushing the limits of what I would do. Maybe throw a little fluff on top of that but that's it. I value our 2013 first rounder very highly. doubtful this gets done. Alternatively I would trade most of this draft but again, I'm doubtful that alone would get it done.
2) Stay at 4. Luck will go 1, Kalil will mostly likely be off the board, which leaves us 2 of RG3, Claiborne, and Blackmon. The other day I read someone say that they were dying to know what Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur truly felt about RG3 and I agree. The only way we are likely to get legit insight into that is if RG3 is on the board when we pick. I'm undecided on what to do honestly.
3) Trade down. In the past I would have generally loved this option but with the dynamics of it being a top heavy draft combined with the rookie wage scale, someone would have to clearly overpay based on the draft value chart to get it done. Unlikely.
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For all the concern about the defense, it just does not make sense to draft defensively until the second or 3rd round. The defense has played pretty well and is competitive, especially considering the poor state of the offense.
This team is a mess on offense. It starts with the passing game.
I would prefer QB and WR with the first couple of picks. The passing game is just not there, RT is a concern, but I agree with the playmaker assessment.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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I'm still taking BPA....we have SOOOOOO many holes that this approach can't fail
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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j/c
I see guys all the time post on here that the Browns have to trade up for Luck or grab this guy or that one. The fact of the matter is that until the FA period is over or at least under way no one has a clue what they might do. Not even the Browns.
But I think that by looking back at the tendencies of H&H that you could make some educated guesses. One of my guesses would be that they will not trade up from #4 for anyone unless the deal is particularly special. And IMO that would not include using both first round picks plus whatever else it would take to move up for Luck. Or anyone else.
If RG3 is there at 4 (a big IF at that) I could see them pulling the trigger. But otherwise they're going to use those picks to pick whoever they feel best suits the needs of the team. And I'm more than OK with that.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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j/c... Quote:
The departure of the Polians may be only the beginning of a new look for the Colts, who played the entire season without Peyton Manning. The Colts finished 2-14 and are expected to take a quarterback with the top pick in the NFL Draft.All season long, that speculation has centered on Stanford’s Andrew Luck. Over the weekend, reports emerged that the team may be considering Baylor’s Heisman Trophy-winnng QB, Robert Griffin III.
link
Just curios if The Colts did this in order to draft how Irsay wanted to go.. I doubt it... but this seems odd
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Irsay fired the Polians because they have been awful. They've missed on nearly every high draft pick in the past five years.
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Legend
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I will LOL at any team that drafts Mike Adams fat behind.
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Legend
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I think it's a lot of fun to speculate and discuss the draft.
But I know that I won't believe a single thing that comes out of any front office regarding the draft until the pick is actually in.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hall of Famer
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But I know that I won't believe a single thing that comes out of any front office regarding the draft until the pick is actually in.
I know what you what mean...Keeps the off season interesting 
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Quote:
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Great ..... mid first round talent at #4. That would make sense.
What??
Kalil and Blackmon are pretty widely regarded as #2 and either #3 or #4 in this entire draft. You may say "yeah but that's not as good as LAST YEAR" but you can only work with the draft you have. Two of the top 4 players are not mid round talent any way you want to spin it.
I agree we need "elite" talent. There is 1 of those in this draft. Some of us are ok trading the farm so to speak to go get that elite talent, not only b/c he's the only elite talent but it's also at the most important position on the field. But, we need to come to terms that as much as we offer, we still may not get him.
I have a philosophy that with a high first round pick, you have to get the best player available at a specific position. We have to start getting "the best" here and there to become competitive. At QB that's Luck. At OT that's Kalil. At WR that's Blackmon. At CB that's Claiborne. At RB that's Richardson. One of those 5 needs to be a Cleveland Brown (though I hate the idea of a 1st round RB so really it's only one of those 4 to me).
Look, YTown, I know you have a hard on for RG3.....and H&H must just be blinded enough to take him. And maybe he's the rare guy who breaks all the molds and really does work out, but don't poo-poo the idea of any of those other 4 (or 5) players by making stuff up to defend your obsession.
It's exactly why, even though CB certainly isn't our #1 need going into this offseason at ALL....it's still a need...and getting the #1 CB in the entire draft in Claiborne is never a bad thing. You pair him with Haden and all of a sudden we have one of the best starting CB tandems in the NFL. You build with the pieces that are available. Sure I'd rather get Luck and build this putrid offense instead, but it just might not work out that way. Doesn't make it dumb, or a bad draft.
this needs to be a sticky on ever single draft topic
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Look, YTown, I know you have a hard on for RG3
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this needs to be a sticky on ever single draft topic
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Practice Squad
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Here is what I am thinking after now knowing the order of the draft and having a better idea of team needs behind us. Due to the fact that we have sooooo many holes on this team, if H&H are not 100% sure on either RG3, Blackmon, Claiborne, Kalil or whoever is still on the board when we pick at #4, I am proposing us to trade down to a spot where we can pick up an additional 2nd and 3rd round pick this year (which would put us picking in the 10-12 range according to the NFL Draft Point Value Chart). That would give us 2 picks in each of the first 4 rounds…
1A – Trent Richardson, RB – Alabama
1B – Kendall Wright, WR – Baylor
2A – Ingram or Mercilus, DE – South Carolina/Illinois
2B – Top rated OL left of the board at either guard or tackle
3A – Sean Spence, OLB – Miami
3B – Cliff Harris, CB – Oregon
4A – Jarius Wright, WR – Arkansas
4B - ??? Blocking TE, FS, SS, OL….some sort of depth at one of those positions
5 – Jeff Demps, RB – Florida
6 – Case Keenum, QB – Houston
7 – Fastest player available for special teams use
This would give us two playmakers at offensive positions that we need (RB and WR) as well as filling three holes on the defensive side with potential starters. This also would upgrade our team speed in general which is an area where we lack big time! This also gives us a developmental QB in Keenum, who experienced a tremendous amount of success at the college level.
This draft does not take into account any free agency signings either.
Thoughts on this mock draft?????
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If the Browns pick Trent Richardson with their first overall pick, I will throw my computer out the window and probably renounce my fanhood in this team.
Drafting a RB when you lack QB, WR, RT, and several other players on defense would be the worst possible move they could make.
you had a good run Hank.
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I agree we need "elite" talent...I have a philosophy that with a high first round pick, you have to get the best player available at a specific position. We have to start getting "the best" here and there to become competitive.
Vs.
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Due to the fact that we have sooooo many holes on this team...I am proposing us to trade down....2B – Top rated player left of the board at either guard or tackle...4B - ???….some sort of depth at one of those positions...7 – Fastest player available for special teams use
And that right there is the philosophical difference. Take "elite" talent. The BEST player at a certain position (even if that position isn't our #1 need)
Vs.
More picks but they are of the "best player left", "some sort of depth" or "fastest player left" variety.
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The problem of drafting an RT that high is that it's not worth it. He does not protect the QB's blindside. A RT wouldn't make as much impact on this team as a QB, WR, DE, or even CB would make. At the top of the draft, you go impact players, and an RT is just not that when you have a right-handed QB.
Regardless of whether most think a RT at #4 pick is too high, we need an elite RT to fix our problematic line. I feel the investment would be worth it in the long run.
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Legend
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In the long run we won't be able to pay both Thomas and Kalil the money they deserve.
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If we do end up taking Claiborne with 1a (hopefully because the Luck option didn't pan out) then I'd have no problem going defense with 1b and 2.
Draft Claiborne, Mercilus and David - get play makers at all three levels of the defense.
RDE Mercilus
DT Rubin
DT Taylor
LDE Sheard
SLB Gocong
MLB DQ
WLB David
CB Haden
FS Adams
SS Ward
CB Claiborne
That to me looks like a strong crew.
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Don't get me wrong, Claiborne isn't "the guy" I want. My order of preference is 1. Luck 2. Luck 3. Luck 4. Luck 5. Blackmon 6. Kalil or Claiborne I'm just saying that option 6 isn't a "bad" option if we can't get Luck and Blackmon goes 2nd or 3rd (both of which are very possible at this point). As for your mock I'd be fine with Claiborne at 1A and Mercilus at 1B. We desperately need a RDE opposite Sheard and starting quality 43 DE aren't going to last until the mid rounds. I like the Lavonte David pick as well, but I think he'll be available in the 3rd. I really think we need to come away with a starting caliber WR out of this off-season as well....and honestly there isn't much available at a 2nd round grade. So....I might be inclined to go WR at 1B (Kendall Wright or Mohamed Sanu. I don't like Alshon Jeffery at all...he's a big body possession type WR with low production....we need a speedster who can stretch the defense and be our #1 to slide Little/Cribbs et all down a spot). Then hope Mercilus falls to us in the 2nd. I've seen many mocks with him going in the 30's so it isn't completely impossible. 1A - Morris Claiborne - CB LSU 1B - Kendall Wright - WR Baylor or Mohamed Sanu - WR Rutgers 2 - Whitney Mercilus - DE Illinois 3 - Lavonte David - LB Nebraska Then I'd love to take another flyer on either Jeff Fuller - WR Texas A&M or Ryan Broyles - WR Oklahoma in the 4th or 5th round. They both will fall due to injuries but have high round talent. But again....that's option #6 for me  .
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Legend
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Quote:
We desperately need a RDE opposite Sheard
I know it's a pipe dream, but I am hoping we can somehow get our hands on Calais Campbell from the Cardinals. He is an unrestricted free agent and can probably play any position along the line a 4-3 defense. He's had 7, 6, then 8 sacks as defensive end in a 3-4.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
We desperately need a RDE opposite Sheard
I know it's a pipe dream, but I am hoping we can somehow get our hands on Calais Campbell from the Cardinals. He is an unrestricted free agent and can probably play any position along the line a 4-3 defense. He's had 7, 6, then 8 sacks as defensive end in a 3-4.
naw.. i'd rather draft a DE, and use Free Agency for the o-line..
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Legend
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We could address both, no?
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Can someone please tell me why they think Blackmon is worth a top-five pick?
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Legend
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I don't think he is either, but I can tell you why people think we should take him. He is the best WR and we "need" a WR. And people saw him have success on TV so they have something tangible to hang on to.
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Quote:
If the Browns pick Trent Richardson with their first overall pick, I will throw my computer out the window and probably renounce my fanhood in this team.
Drafting a RB when you lack QB, WR, RT, and several other players on defense would be the worst possible move they could make.
I dunno. I think Richardson is my 2nd best player in the draft. If we don't go RG3 (and I really don't know enough about the guy to decide whether we should pick him or not), he's the guy that I want. Especially if we don't re-sign Hillis. If we do sign Hillis, I still have no issue with the pick because our RBs have given me no reason to think that they can play a full season.
The only position that completely can change a team is the QB IMO. I definitely want him over Claiborne. And I just don't see us using that high of a pick on an O-Tackle that probably will be out of our budget range once his rookie contract is over.
I'm sure Claiborne is good, but we already picked our top-notch CB. I think Richardson will make just as much of a difference as another 1st round corner.
Someone said earlier, how many of the best RBs are on playoff teams. Well the two best corners in football aren't on playoff teams either. So I think it's a moot point. We need a DE more than a corner, and there isn't one there at #4 that's anywhere near as good as Richardson is a RB.
I get that this is a passing league, but when it comes down to who's the BEST PLAYER, Richardson is a better player as a RB than Blackmon is a WR.
1A) Richardson
1B) Wright or RT or DE
2) RT or Sanu or DE
(The most important thing is we address this RT situation with 1B or 2 or ACTUALLY ADDRESS IT in FA. No Pashos, St. Clair, Schaffers. A REAL solution)
I'm hoping in FA we offer a deal to Meachem or DeSean Jackson. Obviously our needs will change after FA for the later picks, but IMO Richardson definitely brings a lot to the table. I think he's gonna be as good as Tomilinson, and Ladanian Tomilinson was great. Richardson can do it all, and he'd give us a super star every down back for a good period of time.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, Claiborne isn't "the guy" I want. My order of preference is
1. Luck
2. Luck
3. Luck
4. Luck
5. Blackmon
6. Kalil or Claiborne
We justa bout' got screwed with Indy dropping BOTH Polian's...
This is a clear-cut we're going to rebuild if u could ever imagine one...
I have OFFICIALLY dropped the Luck thing...And it BLOWS...Thanks Barkley...Indy...
And I am WAY WAY WAY far from thinking RGIII is any answer...Nor Flynn...
Merry Xmas McCoy...U just probably got another chance...
We're lookin' at Claiborne right now...And that's if Minny doesn't take em' or Auctions off RGIII...
Deep...NO WAY IN HELL Claiborne goes #2...Rams will not pass on Kalil or a weapon for Bradford over a CB...Not happening...
Go Browns!!!
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) 2012 Draft Continued Again
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