Cerrone vs. Diaz should be a great fight, Diaz showing a little more pop on his punches that should be the difference. I think Brock is going to take a major beating tonight.
If Brock can take Allistar down he will win. If not he is going to get KTFO.
I think Nate wins as well, the Diaz Slap Boxing style is pretty good for MMA. Cumulative punches just wear down their opponents and no one wants to go to the ground with them.
overeem may have more experience, but i think lesnar has more impressive wins in his short career. Overeem got ko'd 3 times by shogun and Lidell when he was at Pride. He did beat up some scrubs while he was in strikeforce, but I just question whether he could beat Ufc's best at this division. Lesnar has gotten every man down for the most part in his fights. If he gets overeem down, I think he wins, just like he punched out Mir. But Brock is vulnerable to the big punch. Should be an interesting fight.
The thing about Overeem in Pride was he cut weight to fight at 205. Since he put on weight and has been fighting at HW he has been impressive. He stepped in the K1 ring and won the Grand Prix in 2010. He is a great stand up fighter with some above average ground game.
Brock tried to stand and fight with Alistair and it was a bad decision. Alistair hit him with a kick to the side, looked like the foot wrapped around and caught the kidney. Brock locked up and that was that.
Lesnar didnt want to fight in my opinion. he had one foot out the door of the ufc. I watched all of Lesnar's fights, and this one he was the least aggressive. Just seemed like he wanted to cash in one more time before he left. the guy had no resolve in any of his losses. one bit of adversity, and the guy quit, just like tonight. Wouldn't surprise me to see him in the wwe again.
LAS VEGAS — Brock Lesnar retired from mixed martial arts after Alistair Overeem stopped him with one vicious kick to the body at 2:26 of the first round in their heavyweight bout at UFC 141 on Friday night.
Lesnar is the UFC’s biggest pay-per-view star and the former heavyweight champion, but his return from a 14-month injury absence ended with Lesnar staggering and crumpling against the cage. He couldn’t recover from a kick from Overeem (36-11), the 6-foot-5 Dutch kickboxing star making his UFC debut.
Lesnar (5-3) is a former NCAA champion wrestler and pro-wrestling star who rose swiftly to the top of MMA. But he has fought just three times in the past 2½ years while dealing with bouts of diverticulitis, a lower-intestinal ailment that nearly killed him.
“I’ve had a really difficult couple of years with my disease, and I’m going to officially say tonight is the last time,” Lesnar said. “This is the last time you’ll see me in the octagon.”
The 34-year-old Lesnar’s announcement stunned fans who realized he faced a difficult matchup in the UFC’s traditional end-of-the-year event in its hometown. The matchup was a classic MMA clash of styles, with Lesnar’s brutal wrestling contrasting sharply with Overeem’s vicious striking.
Overeem is three years younger but much more experienced than Lesnar, hurting the former champion at least twice earlier in the round with knees to the stomach while Lesnar failed in his attempts at takedowns.
“I promised my wife and my kids if I won this fight, I would get a title shot, and that would be my last fight,” Lesnar said. “But if I lost tonight ... you’ve been great.”
Overeem will get the next shot at UFC heavyweight champion Junior Dos Santos, who watched from a seat near the octagon.
Overeem is a champion kick boxer who has fought in multiple promotions over the past decade, winning titles in Dream and Strikeforce with nearly unbeatable striking and size. He joined the UFC in September, finally presenting his formidable skills and intimidating physique to the sport’s largest audience.
UFC President Dana White might have given an immediate title shot to Overeem if the timing had been better, but Dos Santos only claimed Velasquez’s belt in early November. Overeem welcomed a debut against Lesnar, even guaranteeing a knockout in the first two rounds.
“Today was all about bad intentions,” Overeem said. “First or second round, I promised. ... I worked on my takedown defense a lot. Brock is an excellent wrestler, so I had to step up my game.”
The undercard at the MGM Grand Garden featured two upsets: Lightweight Nate Diaz won a bloody unanimous decision over Donald “Cowboy” Cerrone with superior boxing, and Johny Hendricks stopped welterweight star Jon Fitch with one punch just 12 seconds into their bout.
Lesnar hadn’t fought since losing his heavyweight belt to Cain Velasquez in October 2010, cancelling a bout against Junior Dos Santos last June in Vancouver after another bout of diverticulitis, the lower intestinal ailment that nearly killed him a year earlier.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Overeem got him with that kick to the liver. A kick to where he placed it is supposed to be brutal.
I was watching that show where two guys went out learning all the different fighting styles around the world, and one of them (who competed and i've seen him as an announcer for Bellator) was in France learning Savate, and he got kicked in the liver. He went right down. Said it was brutal. I think the show was called Fight Quest
Lesnar, getting hit like that in his liver, with his colon/intestinal disease he's fought; forget it
That being said I think Junior Dos Santos is the better fighter between him and Overeem. His stand up is better than Overeem/s. Of course, if he gets hit the way Lesnar did, he might fall the same way. But I don't think it'll happen. Dos Santos has great hands, better than Overeem's
That's the thing with MMA though; one well placed shot and you're out. It happened with Koscheck vs Thiago and happened last night with Fitch vs Hendricks (or whatever that guy's name is). Fitch hadn't lost in forever, dropped his hands and got hit with a well placed shot to the head.
I dunno if the fight shoulda been stopped between Fitch and Hendricks, I don't really like Mazzigatti. He has a reputation as a terrible ref. It's frustrating because a lot of times a fight won't get stopped, and someone good on the ground (like Fitch) would probably be able to stay in the fight and come back. It's risking permanent damage, and sure, Fitch didn't know he was grabbing the referee in a defense recovery move, but if he grabbed Hendricks (had Hendricks been on top of him), he very well could have gotten himself together. And if that were the case, I'd bet he'd have won. But he also risked permanent head injury had he taken more shots.
But if Hendricks and Fitch fought 4 more times, I'd bet Fitch would win all four. But sometimes that's all you need in MMA, one very well placed shot.
from what I seen fitch was out. the ref had every right to stop that fight. fitch at no point broke his fall, his hands were limb, plus he went to wrestle the ref when he called the fight. hate to see a fight end so quickly, but that ref had no choice.
Quote: That being said I think Junior Dos Santos is the better fighter between him and Overeem. His stand up is better than Overeem/s. Of course, if he gets hit the way Lesnar did, he might fall the same way. But I don't think it'll happen. Dos Santos has great hands, better than Overeem's
I am sorry but you have no clue about fighting. Overeem is a world class Muay Thai striker the art of the 8 limbs. He has fought in K1which is basically the best of the best for stand up. He placed 3rd in the K1Tourny in 2009 and won the title in 2010. He can knock some one one with any part of his body, Overeem is the scariest fighter in the HW division.
Don Santos is not on the same level, I am concerned he is going to get murdered in the ring
Oh, I have no question he was out. My point was, if the ref didn't jump on him but Hendricks did, he'd probably have wrestled Hendricks, and I dunno if he would have taken that much more of a beating.
He might have gotten his composure together and probably would have been victorious.
My point really is that there are cases where guys get knocked out in MMA, and through instinct manage to protect themselves through wrestling, make it through the round, and they win the fight.
Had Hendricks instead of the ref jumped on Fitch, Fitch might have been able to regain his composure. Of course, he might not have and it could have caused permanent damage.
There's just KO's that get missed, that's all. It wasn't like Henderson vs Bisping where we know Bisping was done for
With out a doubt Alistair has better stand up than Dos Santos. But it's an MMA fight and I'll give the edge to Dos Santos. Alistair will have to worry about being taken down so it should open some opportunities for Dos Santos but if they fought in K1 Overeem would destroy him.
Shoot his legs? He has the most dangerous knees in all of MMA, and getting kneed in the head is the worst strike somoene can take espically from a freak like him.
Judo Throw/body throw? His Muay Thai clinch is damn near perfect, he has being doing Muay Thai since he was 17 nobody throw will take him down with a body leverage throw.
Muscle him down? He is the strongest man in the HW division, no one is going to muscle him.
He will be too strong for Santos (or anyone), I think he is going pillage the HW division no one will have the skill or the strength to beat him.
Quote: the guy had no resolve in any of his losses. one bit of adversity, and the guy quit, just like tonight. Wouldn't surprise me to see him in the wwe again.
You mean like almost dieing?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Overeem was soo worried about going to the ground with Werdum that Werdum got off quite a few shots on him. Dos Santos is a Black Belt in bjj and he has some pretty good boxing. If Werdum was able to hit Overeem I'm willing to bet Dos Santos can as well. Dos Santos also has KO power that Werdum never has shown. One solid hit is all Dos Santos needs and he will have some opportunities because Overeem will want to keep the fight standing.
No, I'm talking about being in the octagon, and the ability to take some heavy shots, and recover. For as big as Lesnar is, he was kind of soft in the octagon. Even White said that after cain beat him down. He likes to give out punishment, but couldn't take it in return. Chuck Kongo took a worse beating from cain, and survived all 3 rounds. Same thing with a smaller guy like Clay Guido.
I disagree. When Brock fought Shane Carwin, he took a beating from Carwin but was able to make it through the round and then got Carwin in a submission in the next round. Carwin has some heavy fists. He's not a boxer or anything, but he does hit hard
Brock vs Cain was a surprise, but in this one, it seemed clear to me. He suffered some body shots with the knees earlier in the match, but nothing compared to that kick he took to his liver. He got hit with that and it was over. I think those shots to the liver leave you pretty much helpless.
But yeah, Overeem can win K1, but I don't think it'll change the fact that he's gonna have to be nervous about takedowns from JDS, and Dos Santos will knock him out. Dos Santos has very good hands, better than Overeem. Overeem is very good at kicking/sending knees to the body, but in the hands realm, Dos Santos has the edge. Overeem won't want to let Dos Santos get in close enough to clench so he can throw his knees. I think that if he does, he's gonna catch a shot to the chin
And Overeem's size doesn't make it impossible to take him down. Big guys fall. Dos Santos is no slouch, he's got great conditioning and is a better rounded fighter than people might think. I don't think Dos Santos will take him down though, if anything it'll be a hard hand to the face and jump on top type of job.
He's faster and a more complete fighter IMO. Fight can go either way, as they're both strikers, but I think that JDS' hands are just too good. And I usually give stand up advantage to the guy with better hands
Quote: Overeem was soo worried about going to the ground with Werdum that Werdum got off quite a few shots on him. Dos Santos is a Black Belt in bjj and he has some pretty good boxing. If Werdum was able to hit Overeem I'm willing to bet Dos Santos can as well. Dos Santos also has KO power that Werdum never has shown. One solid hit is all Dos Santos needs and he will have some opportunities because Overeem will want to keep the fight standing.
I hope you are not referring to their fight in Strikeforce, because that was a sad display for Werdum, the entire time he jumped on his back trying to get Overeem to engage. If you remember this is exactly what Werdum did to Andrei Arlovski and he was kicked out of the ufc for it.
Overeem was not worried about going to the ground, if anything he didn't train hard for the fight because he looked a bit gassed. There was no point in him going to the ground and he did not respect Werdum's punching power so getting tagged a few times to look dominate didn't matter to him.
I agree Santos has some decent punching power but you are talking about a man who can take some punishment.
Lets just say JDS hands are better (which i disagree) you are forgetting about his kicks, which will be able to soften up everything. Overeem is not a one dimensional fighter, he is a complete fighter like Anderson Silva.
I agree that Overeem is the most accomplished striker in the HW division. But, Dos Santos has very good hands and cannot be taken lightly. I think it will be a good fight when they meet and to say Overeem is sure to dominate is a stretch. The one thing I do not understand is Lesnar trying to strike with a guy that is as dangerous as Overeem. Makes no sense.
I hope you are not referring to their fight in Strikeforce, because that was a sad display for Werdum, the entire time he jumped on his back trying to get Overeem to engage. If you remember this is exactly what Werdum did to Andrei Arlovski and he was kicked out of the ufc for it.
Overeem was not worried about going to the ground, if anything he didn't train hard for the fight because he looked a bit gassed. There was no point in him going to the ground and he did not respect Werdum's punching power so getting tagged a few times to look dominate didn't matter to him.
I agree Santos has some decent punching power but you are talking about a man who can take some punishment.
Yes I'm talking about the Strikeforce fight because despite Werdum trying to get Overeem to jump into his guard (like Fedor did) Werdum still got off quite a few punches. If Dos Santos connects he can knockout Overeem.
Also please make sure you know what you are talking about before you try to act like a know it all. Werdum was cut from the UFC after he first signed a huge pay increase and in his next fight (Oct 2008) he was brutally Knocked out by Dos Santos. After the fight the UFC asked Werdum to take a paycut and he refused, so they cut him.
He fought Andre Arlovski in April 2007. After that fight he fought Gonzaga and Vera beating them both. He was in line for a title shot which is why he got the pay increase and many feel he should of fought Randy instead of Brock. (But that is a deal that Randy made with Zuffa to drop the lawsuit and give him a fight against someone that would pull in PPV numbers which Randy got a cut from, hense Brock at 1-1 in the UFC got a title shot.) But since Frank Mir and Big Nog were coaching TUF and Randy didn't want to fight Werdum (not enough star power) it left Werdum with fighting the young up and coming Dos Santos.
So it was a year and a half after Werdum fought Arlovski that he was cut.
Overeem has been KO'd before at HW, Sergei Kharitonov beat him by KO and I think Dos Santos has better hands and power than Sergei. Overeem isn't invisible. He can easily be beaten.
Quote: Lets just say JDS hands are better (which i disagree) you are forgetting about his kicks, which will be able to soften up everything. Overeem is not a one dimensional fighter, he is a complete fighter like Anderson Silva.
Oh, I think Overeem is good. But I just don't think he's AS good as you're making him out to be. Anderson Silva is in his own class. He's fought nothing but the best competition, and he's come out on top. But yes, there's more to Overeem than kickboxing.
Still don't think his hands are that good, and so he'll have to gain the advantage with kicks/knees because otherwise he holds no advantage. But this doesn't mean that he'll use them as a major part of his plan, it's just something JDS is going to have to account for. But Allistair has been KO'd plenty of times before (in K-1 and MMA).
I do think Overeem will come into the fight smaller than he came in against Lesnar. He's gotta try to match JDS' cardio as the fight could go 5? rounds. But UFC is not K-1. And K-1 striking doesn't necessarily just translate over. MMA leaves much more to account for. For one thing, aren't the gloves different? And also, as I've said, your stance and style will be different as you have to prepare for takedown attempts
I guess we'll just dissagree, but if I was going to bet, I'm going with the UFC Champion, Dos Santos
I fully understand that UFC is not K1 however Overeem has a wealth of experience. Yes he has had plenty of loses however he has been fighting since 1999 so its expected to have loses on your belt and most of those loses were to very good people at the time. He is 13-1 as a heavyweight in MMA very impressive.
I think his hands are better just because he fought in K1. In K1 you need to only focus kicks and punches which means your hands and kicks must be very good or you will lose. His defense is very good, and punches are very clean and don't forget the man hits hard.
bleh, of course I am going by memory, from now on I will now do the necessary research, instead of going off memory.
Werdum was hitting him with an unorthodox fighting style and yes it was hitting overeem, however it did zero damage. JDS is not unorthodox, his hands are clean and precise which means both of them will box each other when throwing punches.
Yes Overeem has been KOed, however he has won 11 (1 no contest) fights since then and that was 5 years ago. Also it was his 2nd fight moving up to heavyweight full-time. Obviously he has learned much since then.
JDS is 14-1, the difference from his loss is that he lost to a no name via submission in a no-name mma organization.
Which lose is worse? 2nd fight in a new weight class and getting KOed or getting beat at your strength by a no-name and in a no-name organization? Thoughts?
Junior Dos Santos ' strength is boxing. He was defeated via submission to by a fighter he had beaten previously. Most who have been directly involved in mma/bjj will know that sometimes you get caught. It happens to everyone at some point.It may not be in a major fight but it does happen. I really do not believe Overeem has better hands than JDS, kicks definately but hands,not from what I have seen. JDS has better grappling which alll should make for a great, tho short fight.
Lost all credibility . Dos Santos has the BEST hands of all UFC heavies and it isn't even close . I can't even begin to understand your logic for stating otherwise . No way does he want to trade with DS ...no way .
Quote: no one will have the skill or the strength to beat him.
If by no one you mean Rua , Nogeria ,Lidell, and big names like Bobby Hoffman, Kharitonov ( all of whom KO'd him) then yeah he is unstoppable . Look, the guy is the next big hype like Crocop, Emilinenko , blah blah .
Quote: If by no one you mean Rua , Nogeria ,Lidell, and big names like Bobby Hoffman, Kharitonov ( all of whom KO'd him) then yeah he is unstoppable .
All those guys were when he was 205lbs he is 13-1 since moving up to HW full time, he hasn't lost a fight since 2007. You can't compare Apples(LHW) to Oranges(HW). He is a heavy weight now and pretty much unstoppable.
I read a blog that he wrote and he basically said that when he fought at 205 he was starving himself to make weight and never had full energy, he was never able to train like he wanted. Remember he was 205 lbs, 6'5, super lean, hence the reason he moved up to HW.
Out of that 13-1 10 of those he won under 5 minutes 6 KO or TKO (1 was a Submission via knees to the body but i am going to count that as KO) 7 were under 2 minutes (Brock was 2:26 but if you want to make it under 2:30 it would be 8) 3 were submission from a standing guillotine choke
I am not sure about you but that looks pretty unstoppable to me.
Quote: Look, the guy is the next big hype like Crocop, Emilinenko , blah blah .
Overeem is only 31 and a physical freak, you can't call him the next big hype, watch his fights, watch how he strikes, watch how he attacks, watch how he sprawls, he is a complete fighter.
Those were the glory days and those fights were way better then most of the ufc fights now. When Fedor was in his prime the "Last Emperor" was the scariest man alive, he annihilated EVERYONE he fought, now he is just really too old to compete.
CroCop in his prime was one of the best strikers (look at old youtube stuff), he wasn't the next big thing, he was the big thing everyone feared him(except fedor), however he was never able to transition from fighting in a ring into fighting in the cage and he got old.
Remember Crocop starting fight at age 22. Before coming to UFC he was 33-34 years old and had 29 MMA fights, 23 K1 kickboxing fights, and 45 amateur boxing fights. He got old his body couldn't keep up, it happens.
CroCop was by far my favorite fighter, and he still has a soft spot in my heart!
Lost all credibility . Dos Santos has the BEST hands of all UFC heavies and it isn't even close . I can't even begin to understand your logic for stating otherwise . No way does he want to trade with DS ...no way .
Here is my logic,
The best strikers are people who fought in K1.
Quote: Why?
K1 is made up of all strikers, you must have great hands and great kicks, and a great chin. If you don't, you will get knocked out or beat to a bloody pulp. In K1 you only have to worry about 2 hands and 2 feet, 2 knees which means you can't have sloppy technique or again, you will be KOed. Those are the facts, there is no wrestling, there is no BJJ, no elbows, just punching, kicks knees.
So the logic is simple, the man who has won a recent K1 tournament which is made up of the best strikers in the world has the better hands.
Here is one of the best K1 fights I have watched. This my friends is pure awesomeness in a ring.
Quote: Here is one of the best K1 fights I have watched. This my friends is pure awesomeness in a ring.
I've watched a bit of K1 and most K1 is not like what you just showed. It' usually a bit slower paced. Like that guy Mark Hunt, he doesn't fight like that at all. (given, he is a heavy weight). Same thing with that black guy who used to where like the medieval looking trunks.
And I don't think the best strikers are K1, if you're a UFC striker, you don't fight K1. I bet Nick Diaz would do well in K1, does he fight in it? No. How about Paul Daley? Anderson Silva certainly is good enough to fight K1. Belfort too. KJ Noons doesn't seem to have any K1 fights, his stand up was definitely good enough for it
Some of these K1 fighters also fight MMA, like Mousasi. His stand up doesn't really impress me when I watched him in StrikeForce.
I've seen Overeem fight, I'm just not overly impressed with his stand-up. He's very good (better than Brock, Velazquez, probably Congo), but it's hard for me to say that his hands are better than Dos Santos. Dos Santos has great hands. K1 is good, but there's some very good stand up in UFC. They just don't fight in K1 fights, probably because they have too much to lose.
And I do enjoy good stand up, I love Cro-Cop's old fights, I like that guy Igor Vonchysen or whatever even more (he was like a short hammer, hook after hook), but that style of MMA is the past. People don't fight like that anymore. There's gotta be a reason that no one is throwing a left foot of death like Cro-Cop's.
If K1 fighters really had the best hands in the world they would be in Boxing making Millions instead of K1 making thousands.
I don't remember too many Alistair's fights ending with KO due to punches. Most have been from kicks and knees and are TKO's, the fighters were not out cold.
Santos has KO'd people with his hands, guys like Werdum, Gonzaga and Velasquez.
Santos has the better hands and has shown he has the power and technique to knock someone out.
No one is saying Alistair can't win the fight, he can, just Santos has better hands and a better ground game. Alistair has better kicks and knee's.
Alistair is stronger and will weigh more. All in all it will be a close fight with JDS as a slight favorite. By fight night I'd put JDS at -120 to Alistair at +120.
Right now Vegas has it at JDS -140, Alistair +177.
It is widely recognized that boxers usually possess the best pure hand skills of any combat athlete. Kickboxers who attempt to crossover to boxing are usually not overly successful. That is not to say that Dos Santos is a better striker but in terms hand speed and precision punching I think the eye test says he is a better puncher. And as far as Overeem being 13-1, first he hasn't exactlt defeated, outside of Lesnar and MAYBE Werdum, a high level of competition.And he did not look good against Werdum.
Quote: From my understanding UFC does not allow their fighters to fight any other organization besides them once you sign the contract.
I know this, that's exactly my point. That's why they can't/don't fight K1. So K1 striking isn't potentially as elite as it could be because no one from the BEST MMA organization can fight in it. I understand there's a flip side to the coin, K1 fighters can't fight UFC because they can't do both.
But for me, hands is the most important aspect of striking. From what I've seen, JDS has better hands than Overeem, and so i think he has the striking advantage. He's also a better ground fighter. That's why I have him as the favorite. But if Overeem gets him in a clench and starts kneeing his body, tables can turn. And if Overeem can kick him really good in the liver, the same way he got Brock, Overeem will probably be able to knock him out. I just don't know if he'll risk kicks like that and leave himself open to being off balance and having to defend Dos Santos' punches/a take down
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