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I just noticed this Quote:
Why would the Packers, for example, let their QB coach make a move to be the OC without the play calling duties?
The Packers have no say in the matter. In title, he's taking a "step up" job. It's only if he takes a lateral move that they may have some control.. At least that's my understanding.
If Clements is under contract with the Pack, don't the Browns have to seek permission to speak with him? I believe that is the case.
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I wonder if Marc Trestman is being considered. He's got experience being an OC and although I don't think he typically runs a West Coast(not sure tho), He has experience in it under Bill Walsh I'm pretty sure. Personally I don't see why he wouldn't be a candidate.
Actually, it was under George Siefert.. And he seems to have quite a bit of experience in the WCO in one form or the other
http://www.allcoachnetwork.com/trestman/bio.html
Thanks Daman! I would have no problem with Marc Trestman. He's got loads of experience.
Not to mention that he's been the OC here once before under Marty Schottenhimer.. he was the OC when we went to all those AFC Championship games (well, maybe not the last one)
Most all of those great years in the late 80's were with Trestman as the OC here.. He came in after Lindy Infanti left to coach the Packers I believe.
Point is, he's familiar with Cleveland, Cleveland Fans and Cleveland Media. He's also been trained in the WCO and has been a HC in the CFL (a winning head coach)
So, I guess it could be said that he's a guy that could be of real value around here as the OC.. and I bet he'll want to call the plays.. Which is how it should be for a man of his experience.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I just noticed this
Quote:
Why would the Packers, for example, let their QB coach make a move to be the OC without the play calling duties?
The Packers have no say in the matter. In title, he's taking a "step up" job. It's only if he takes a lateral move that they may have some control.. At least that's my understanding.
If Clements is under contract with the Pack, don't the Browns have to seek permission to speak with him? I believe that is the case.
IIRC, all assistant jobs, even coordinators, are considered equal, and a coach going from assistant QB coach to offensive coordinator would be considered a lateral move. The only coaching promotion is from assistant coach to head coach.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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I just noticed this
Quote:
Why would the Packers, for example, let their QB coach make a move to be the OC without the play calling duties?
The Packers have no say in the matter. In title, he's taking a "step up" job. It's only if he takes a lateral move that they may have some control.. At least that's my understanding.
If Clements is under contract with the Pack, don't the Browns have to seek permission to speak with him? I believe that is the case.
IIRC, all assistant jobs, even coordinators, are considered equal, and a coach going from assistant QB coach to offensive coordinator would be considered a lateral move. The only coaching promotion is from assistant coach to head coach.
So, to take any job other than HC with another team, it's considered a lateral move?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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This is great news for the waterboys and ballboys!
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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To interview for any position other than head coach is considered a lateral move, and the coach's current team does not have to give permission.
They usually will, except in certain situations, like maybe another team in their own division asking permission ..... but I would guess that most teams don't want to get the stigma of standing in the way of a coach's advancement.
However, if a team wanted to, then yes, they can deny permission for teams to talk to their position coach about a coordinator position.
One other thing is that if a team grants one team permission, they grant any team that wants to talk to that coach permission.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is great news for the waterboys and ballboys!
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To interview for any position other than head coach is considered a lateral move, and the coach's current team does not have to give permission.
Did you look that up? The reason I ask is because the OC is in charge of all the offensive coaches. So if you're an offensive coach but not the OC then a move to OC is a step up.
I mean, in your current job the OC is your boss while you're the boss of no one. Moving to OC would then make you the boss over your previous position.
I'm at work or I'd look it up. As it is I don't have time. That's why I'm asking if you did.
#gmstrong
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To interview for any position other than head coach is considered a lateral move, and the coach's current team does not have to give permission.
Did you look that up? The reason I ask is because the OC is in charge of all the offensive coaches. So if you're an offensive coach but not the OC then a move to OC is a step up.
I mean, in your current job the OC is your boss while you're the boss of no one. Moving to OC would then make you the boss over your previous position.
I'm at work or I'd look it up. As it is I don't have time. That's why I'm asking if you did.
I'm assuming that Ytown looked that up somewhere.. But to be honest, I am not sure how it can be considered a lateral move to go from QB coach to OC.. and I don't/can't believe it has a thing to do with if the OC calls or doesn't call the plays..
But unless I can find something that says differently, I guess I gotta accept his explaination.
#GMSTRONG
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YTown is correct.
The NFL doesn't differentiate between assistant coaches.
A QB coach is the same thing as an OC, for the purposes of 'lateral moves'.
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Ytown is correct but they might have changed it so assistant HC is considered an upward move. I know they were talking about it but not sure if the rule change went into effect. It was so teams could protect their coordinators that they were really high on.
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OK,, But it still feels like a dumb rule.. In any other walk of life if you are doing a job and then you are offered a job where you would supervise folks doing your old job, it's a step up, NOT LATERAL..
So if that's the way it is in the NFL,, so be it,, But it really doesn't make much sense.
I do remember that when we were looking to hire Kokanis from the Ravens there was some discussion of his role in selecting players in the draft and having sole responsibilities for that... seemed like that was a Bone of Contention..
Not sure how that translates to the coaching staff however.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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To interview for any position other than head coach is considered a lateral move
Straight on that. I did a search and it says exactly that. Either you're a head coach or you're an assistant. There is no in between.
You got it right.
#gmstrong
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I wonder if Marc Trestman is being considered. He's got experience being an OC and although I don't think he typically runs a West Coast(not sure tho), He has experience in it under Bill Walsh I'm pretty sure. Personally I don't see why he wouldn't be a candidate.
Actually, it was under George Siefert.. And he seems to have quite a bit of experience in the WCO in one form or the other
http://www.allcoachnetwork.com/trestman/bio.html
Thanks Daman! I would have no problem with Marc Trestman. He's got loads of experience.
Not to mention that he's been the OC here once before under Marty Schottenhimer.. he was the OC when we went to all those AFC Championship games (well, maybe not the last one)
Most all of those great years in the late 80's were with Trestman as the OC here.. He came in after Lindy Infanti left to coach the Packers I believe.
Point is, he's familiar with Cleveland, Cleveland Fans and Cleveland Media. He's also been trained in the WCO and has been a HC in the CFL (a winning head coach)
So, I guess it could be said that he's a guy that could be of real value around here as the OC.. and I bet he'll want to call the plays.. Which is how it should be for a man of his experience.
No he was the OC when Bud Carson was forced to take him, he was a very lousy raw coach then. I assume he has improved since 1989(marty was Gone). he was a QB coach under Marty in 1988 and had zip to do with martys playoff teams.
Last edited by akronjoe; 01/19/12 10:35 AM.
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I wonder if Marc Trestman is being considered. He's got experience being an OC and although I don't think he typically runs a West Coast(not sure tho), He has experience in it under Bill Walsh I'm pretty sure. Personally I don't see why he wouldn't be a candidate.
Actually, it was under George Siefert.. And he seems to have quite a bit of experience in the WCO in one form or the other
http://www.allcoachnetwork.com/trestman/bio.html
Thanks Daman! I would have no problem with Marc Trestman. He's got loads of experience.
Not to mention that he's been the OC here once before under Marty Schottenhimer.. he was the OC when we went to all those AFC Championship games (well, maybe not the last one)
Most all of those great years in the late 80's were with Trestman as the OC here.. He came in after Lindy Infanti left to coach the Packers I believe.
Point is, he's familiar with Cleveland, Cleveland Fans and Cleveland Media. He's also been trained in the WCO and has been a HC in the CFL (a winning head coach)
So, I guess it could be said that he's a guy that could be of real value around here as the OC.. and I bet he'll want to call the plays.. Which is how it should be for a man of his experience.
No he was the OC when Bud Carson was forced to take him, he was a very lousy raw coach then. I assume he has improved since 1989(marty was Gone). he was a QB coach under Marty in 1988 and had zip to do with martys playoff teams.
Yes, you are correct, I apparently read the article incorrectly. He was first the QB coach then in his last year here he was the OC and in that year, Kosar passed for over 3500 yards and 18 TDs, Webster Slaughter had over 1200 yards of passing.. That year the Browns scored 334 points which ranked them 14th in the league (28 teams)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1989.htm
THAT YEAR, THEY WENT TO THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS
Yes, he didn't have anything to do with Martys playoff teams, except that he was the QB coach at the time and they went to the AFC Champinship. (OH WAIT, that means he did have something to do with it doesn't it)
Also he did have quite a bit to do with Bud Carsons championship playoff team being the OC and all.
And where in the hell did you get the impression that Carson was FORCED TO TAKE HIM
Then the next year, he went back to Minnesota as the QB coach..
Given the record of the offense here the year he was OC, and the year before when he was the QB coach, I'd hardly call him a "lousy raw coach then" as you put it.
I swear, I don't know why you bother being a Browns fan.,., You clearly hate the managment of the team, and given this post, you didn't care for the management back then either.
I am telling you right now, I think you are a troll.. If I get my butt kicked off this board for saying that.. Fine. I can live with that.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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And where in the hell did you get the impression that Carson was FORCED TO TAKE HIM
I can't believe I'm sort of taking his side, but I thought I remembered Kosar handpicking Trestman because he knew him from his Miami U days. Whether that means he was forced onto Carson, I dont' know, but he may not be far off on that point.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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And where in the hell did you get the impression that Carson was FORCED TO TAKE HIM
I can't believe I'm sort of taking his side, but I thought I remembered Kosar handpicking Trestman because he knew him from his Miami U days. Whether that means he was forced onto Carson, I dont' know, but he may not be far off on that point.
I don't remember that at all.. and frankly, think about it, A Kosar level QB wanting a certain guy as his OC,, I"m not particularly upset about that..
And Look at the results.. If Carson didn't want Trestman, he was a fool..
But still, I see NOTHING that proves that Carson was forced to keep Trestman,,
Who was the GM at that point. Was it still Ernie Accorsi? Yeah it was.. he was there until 1992.
I can't believe that Accorsi would be the type that would force Trestman on his new HC..
As always, anythings possible, but I don't remember there being any reports to that effect.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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But still, I see NOTHING that proves that Carson was forced to keep Trestman,,
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When Schottenheimer resigned following the '88 season, Browns owner Art Modell hired Bud Carson with the stipulation that he make Trestman his offensive coordinator.
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1995-01-26/news/9501260020_1_um-s-staff-marc-trestman-joe-brodsky
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Trestman was Bernie Kosar's quarterback coach at the University of Miami and was named the Browns' offensive coordinator by owner Art Modell last year before Bud Carson was hired as head coach.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...BAJ&pg=6381,7394178
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For example, in Cleveland, he didn't know that it wasn't healthy to accept a job as offensive coordinator before the head coach was hired. But that's what happened in 1989, when club owner Art Modell insisted the Browns' new coach retain Trestman.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/Chronicle/a/1995/03/08/SP53161.DTL&ao=1
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Does any of that mean he was forced on Carson?
#GMSTRONG
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Does any of that mean he was forced on Carson?
From what Dawson wrote, it pretty much does. That doesn't mean Carson didn't embrace it, but it sure likes like Trestman was going to be the OC whether Carson liked it or not.
Now I'm not saying that Trestman wasn't a good choice or that Kosar picking him is a bad thing, I just remember there being somewhat of an issue at the time.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Does any of that mean he was forced on Carson?
From what Dawson wrote, it pretty much does. That doesn't mean Carson didn't embrace it, but it sure likes like Trestman was going to be the OC whether Carson liked it or not.
Now I'm not saying that Trestman wasn't a good choice or that Kosar picking him is a bad thing, I just remember there being somewhat of an issue at the time.
Well, that was a whole lotta "reporter speak" but hey,, if he was forced on Carson, that doens't make it a bad thing as AkronJoe seems to insist that it was,.
All it says is that Art Modell and Bernie Kosar knew better..
#GMSTRONG
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I agree, Daman. After Marty's refusal to hire an OC, I thought it was a good move by Art. (Much better than his later "move")!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I agree, Daman. After Marty's refusal to hire an OC, I thought it was a good move by Art. (Much better than his later "move")!
Hmmmm Cleverness abounds 
#GMSTRONG
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I wonder if Marc Trestman is being considered. He's got experience being an OC and although I don't think he typically runs a West Coast(not sure tho), He has experience in it under Bill Walsh I'm pretty sure. Personally I don't see why he wouldn't be a candidate.
Actually, it was under George Siefert.. And he seems to have quite a bit of experience in the WCO in one form or the other
http://www.allcoachnetwork.com/trestman/bio.html
Thanks Daman! I would have no problem with Marc Trestman. He's got loads of experience.
Not to mention that he's been the OC here once before under Marty Schottenhimer.. he was the OC when we went to all those AFC Championship games (well, maybe not the last one)
Most all of those great years in the late 80's were with Trestman as the OC here.. He came in after Lindy Infanti left to coach the Packers I believe.
Point is, he's familiar with Cleveland, Cleveland Fans and Cleveland Media. He's also been trained in the WCO and has been a HC in the CFL (a winning head coach)
So, I guess it could be said that he's a guy that could be of real value around here as the OC.. and I bet he'll want to call the plays.. Which is how it should be for a man of his experience.
No he was the OC when Bud Carson was forced to take him, he was a very lousy raw coach then. I assume he has improved since 1989(marty was Gone). he was a QB coach under Marty in 1988 and had zip to do with martys playoff teams.
Yes, you are correct, I apparently read the article incorrectly. He was first the QB coach then in his last year here he was the OC and in that year, Kosar passed for over 3500 yards and 18 TDs, Webster Slaughter had over 1200 yards of passing.. That year the Browns scored 334 points which ranked them 14th in the league (28 teams)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1989.htm
THAT YEAR, THEY WENT TO THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS
Yes, he didn't have anything to do with Martys playoff teams, except that he was the QB coach at the time and they went to the AFC Champinship. (OH WAIT, that means he did have something to do with it doesn't it)
Also he did have quite a bit to do with Bud Carsons championship playoff team being the OC and all.
And where in the hell did you get the impression that Carson was FORCED TO TAKE HIM
Then the next year, he went back to Minnesota as the QB coach..
Given the record of the offense here the year he was OC, and the year before when he was the QB coach, I'd hardly call him a "lousy raw coach then" as you put it.
I swear, I don't know why you bother being a Browns fan.,., You clearly hate the managment of the team, and given this post, you didn't care for the management back then either.
I am telling you right now, I think you are a troll.. If I get my butt kicked off this board for saying that.. Fine. I can live with that.
Yawn, he stunk here. Kosar had more to do with any ranking than Trestman. luckily Kosar was able to audible quite abit. yawn. I have been a fan since 1964 and have often been an angry one the last 25 years since we have stunk so long.
Hey karnak you were wrong. can't bear to say it can you.
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I wonder if Marc Trestman is being considered. He's got experience being an OC and although I don't think he typically runs a West Coast(not sure tho), He has experience in it under Bill Walsh I'm pretty sure. Personally I don't see why he wouldn't be a candidate.
Actually, it was under George Siefert.. And he seems to have quite a bit of experience in the WCO in one form or the other
http://www.allcoachnetwork.com/trestman/bio.html
Thanks Daman! I would have no problem with Marc Trestman. He's got loads of experience.
Not to mention that he's been the OC here once before under Marty Schottenhimer.. he was the OC when we went to all those AFC Championship games (well, maybe not the last one)
Most all of those great years in the late 80's were with Trestman as the OC here.. He came in after Lindy Infanti left to coach the Packers I believe.
Point is, he's familiar with Cleveland, Cleveland Fans and Cleveland Media. He's also been trained in the WCO and has been a HC in the CFL (a winning head coach)
So, I guess it could be said that he's a guy that could be of real value around here as the OC.. and I bet he'll want to call the plays.. Which is how it should be for a man of his experience.
No he was the OC when Bud Carson was forced to take him, he was a very lousy raw coach then. I assume he has improved since 1989(marty was Gone). he was a QB coach under Marty in 1988 and had zip to do with martys playoff teams.
Yes, you are correct, I apparently read the article incorrectly. He was first the QB coach then in his last year here he was the OC and in that year, Kosar passed for over 3500 yards and 18 TDs, Webster Slaughter had over 1200 yards of passing.. That year the Browns scored 334 points which ranked them 14th in the league (28 teams)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/1989.htm
THAT YEAR, THEY WENT TO THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIPS
Yes, he didn't have anything to do with Martys playoff teams, except that he was the QB coach at the time and they went to the AFC Champinship. (OH WAIT, that means he did have something to do with it doesn't it)
Also he did have quite a bit to do with Bud Carsons championship playoff team being the OC and all.
And where in the hell did you get the impression that Carson was FORCED TO TAKE HIM
Then the next year, he went back to Minnesota as the QB coach..
Given the record of the offense here the year he was OC, and the year before when he was the QB coach, I'd hardly call him a "lousy raw coach then" as you put it.
I swear, I don't know why you bother being a Browns fan.,., You clearly hate the managment of the team, and given this post, you didn't care for the management back then either.
I am telling you right now, I think you are a troll.. If I get my butt kicked off this board for saying that.. Fine. I can live with that.
Yawn, he stunk here. Kosar had more to do with any ranking than Trestman. luckily Kosar was able to audible quite abit. yawn. I have been a fan since 1964 and have often been an angry one the last 25 years since we have stunk so long.
Hey karnak you were wrong. can't bear to say it can you.
Clearly, you can't read, otherwise you would have seen where I said you were correct..
But that's ok,, let's see,, Ham Sandwich, Quinn wil take the Broncos to the superbowl, and now, Karnak.
Have I missed any.. At least it was a reference to food 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
Scratch one off the list, sounds like Joe Philbin is going to Miami
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
j/c
Scratch one off the list, sounds like Joe Philbin is going to Miami
good for him.. Man, that guy had a tough go of it the last few weeks... losing his son..wow.
for a while there, I didn't think he'd want to go anywhere given the support he has up there.. But, hey,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Green bay will probably promote their QB coach to OC ..... so we won't get him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
Scratch one off the list, sounds like Joe Philbin is going to Miami
likely scratch 2 off the list. that means Tom Clements is probably the OC in GB.
also, that means that Matt Flynn could very well follow Philbin to Miami.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Green bay will probably promote their QB coach to OC ..... so we won't get him.
Probably true.. would seem logical, but hell, this is the NFL,, so who knows.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Mar 2010
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Does any of that mean he was forced on Carson?
you are the new manager of a restaurant . the buck stops with you yet the owner insists you keep his man as assistant manager. What kind os say did you have in the matter. i know you can connect the dots.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Does any of that mean he was forced on Carson?
you are the new manager of a restaurant . the buck stops with you yet the owner insists you keep his man as assistant manager. What kind os say did you have in the matter. i know you can connect the dots.
And guess what, it worked out just fine.. If I'm Bud Carson, I say thank you
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Hopefully we should be getting an OC here within the next week or so now that the last of the head coaching vacancies has been filled. With Sherman losing out on the TB job I hope Holmgren is able to bring him in, though I've heard he is interviewing with Miami today about their OC spot. Childress is still out there as well, but the sooner we get one whom Shurmer can start working with on a gameplan the better.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Legend
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Legend
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I'm going to post this here since most of the Chilly talk is in the Hired Coaches thread...and as of now..he's not a hire...
I'm not a fan of Chilly....But also after reading that Sherman wants to get back to being a HC...and it seems the sooner the better....It put a red flag up for me..
Lets say Sherman came to the Browns....Did a great job for a season..then bolted to become a HC...Now here we are starting all over again searching for an OC...And who knows..who would be available to get...
Okay now...assuming the Browns hire Chilly...And Chilly does a great job.and hoping that"s how it works...
Is it more likely to assume Chilly stays in Cleveland for 3 seasons...establishing some kind of an offensive identity... Factoring in that he has already interviewed this year for a HC'ing job...and failed to land one..
As I'm not a Chilly fan...doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see an OC come here and stay for a few seasons..This was an issue with most of us... as in the continual changing of coaches. If he ends up being the choice of the Browns.. I will accept it... since i'm only a fan...not a member of the coaching staff and FO..
At this point...All I can hope for is a hire that will work out for this team... and be here long enough to help build something....
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Legend
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Legend
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Sherman was OC for one year in Houston (07) improved their O to 14th from 28th before him and they have continued to do well since
Sherman was OC for Holmgren his first year in Seattle, left to be HC in GB and Seattle did just fine on offense after he left too.
So, Sherman has never been OC for more than 1 year before, but was successful both times and the teams continued to be a success after he left too (both had huge climbs from the year before but Holmgren/Hasselbeck had something to do with that in Seattle too)
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Thanks for that info.. so it looks like the Fins will have him for one season.... 
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Legend
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Legend
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yep, and then a college or NFL HC spot will open up for him and he'll be gone. he's at least being honest about wanting that though.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
and then a college or NFL HC spot will open up for him and he'll be gone.
Then he may end up in Cleveland next year...  That was wrong.. I know it... 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns will hire OC.... Possibly
Childress?
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