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Petey - But Anderson did so under the Browns tutelage and Romeo Crennel and behind Charlie Frye. Flynn is doing so on a Green Bay team behind Aaron Rodgers.
I wouldn't drop Fitzpatrick numbers like the Bills did, but I'd make him an offer that was seriously loaded with performance markers. Then I'd bring in receivers that fit the system and know how to run it. They have to be accurate route runners and smart with good hands. One with blazing speed would be good too.
You can turn this offense around in one FA period and one draft. I agree with Rizzo on WKNR, that we are that close.
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He's no shorter than the guy he's backing up.
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"He is a UFA. No compensation required other than his contract."
So why is their talk already of the Franchise tag and the the highest picks they can get in trade ?
GB isn't going to slap a franchise tag on a backup QB. That's just non-sense. They aren't going to pay Top 5 QB money for a backup. It's more likely that they'll re-sign him to a reasonable contract and then trade him for whatever picks they can get with the team trading for him assuming his contract.
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still very risky though. also not mentioned above is that in any time between Flynn 'signing' with GB and a trade happening, whatever his cap-hit would be has to be in GB's cap-budget.
so, it could really hinder GB at the start of FA if they don't have everything completely agreed to ahead of time. it is a very risky proposition for them (though they could try to do it).
i'd say that if they do end up franchising him though, it puts Miami in the driver's seat because their 1st round pick is worth alot less than ours (we would be less likely to give our pick up for Flynn).
Why would Flynn resign with GB without first testing the market and weigh his option? I'm not suggesting that it's not a possibility, because with all these eye's have seen over the years of following this game, I know better then to think that I have seen it all.
I should hope that he would like to have his opportunity to start in this League and if he does not then we probably don't want or need his kind around here anyway.
Like I said before I can't ever recall a team that put the franchise tag on their backup QB with skilled position players to resign.
That would be an even riskier business imo.
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He's no shorter than the guy he's backing up.
Isn't it funny how that gets lost in transition? LOL.
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He did beat out Brohm who was a 2nd round draft pick in the same draft for GB for the backup job despite the higher investment in Brohm (minor note, but still a note)
This is actually a GREAT point, because beating out the second-rounder obviates criticism based on his lack of draft pedigree. So people should not say, "Oh, he's a career backup and a seventh-round draft pick, so he can't be that good." He might as well be a second round draft pick. Therefore, it's like a second-round pick who has sat and studied behind Aaron Rodgers has a stupendous game against a playoff team and is now available in a deal that would cost no draft picks.
Sign Flynn. Grab Tannehill in Round 2 or 3. If Flynn works out, we'll never need Tannehill. If Flynn flops, Tannehill is ready for 2013.
Draft Blackmon, Mercilus, Kendall and a beast RT. Win 10 games in 2012.
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I'd be shocked IF Tannehill was there at 25 let alone round 2 or 3.
IF we'd want him I'll bet we'd have to package 25 and something else to move up.
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still very risky though. also not mentioned above is that in any time between Flynn 'signing' with GB and a trade happening, whatever his cap-hit would be has to be in GB's cap-budget.
so, it could really hinder GB at the start of FA if they don't have everything completely agreed to ahead of time. it is a very risky proposition for them (though they could try to do it).
i'd say that if they do end up franchising him though, it puts Miami in the driver's seat because their 1st round pick is worth alot less than ours (we would be less likely to give our pick up for Flynn).
Why would Flynn resign with GB without first testing the market and weigh his option? I'm not suggesting that it's not a possibility, because with all these eye's have seen over the years of following this game, I know better then to think that I have seen it all.
I should hope that he would like to have his opportunity to start in this League and if he does not then we probably don't want or need his kind around here anyway.
Like I said before I can't ever recall a team that put the franchise tag on their backup QB with skilled position players to resign.
That would be an even riskier business imo.
yeah, I should have been more clear. from the article above, if GB 'franchise-tags' Flynn and then Flynn signs a contract with GB rather than signing the tender (his only 2 choices - and the team that is getting him will prefer him to have signed a longer contract).
I agree that GB would be putting a huge risk on their shoulders because they could not only lose Finley, but hamper all of their FA signings if the trade didn't happen immediately.
#gmstrong
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He's no shorter than the guy he's backing up.
and he's only half an inch taller than the guy we have who constantly gets mocked for being too short. A lot of people on here want the "ideal measurables" in a QB and Flynn doesn't have it when it comes to his height... I'm not one of those people, there are a number of good 6'2" ish QBs around the league but for some people it's an issue, so I put it as a potential negative..
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GB isn't going to slap a franchise tag on a backup QB. That's just non-sense.
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PATRIOTS FRANCHISE BACKUP QB MATT CASSELThe New England Patriots announced today that they have utilized their 2009 franchise designation on quarterback Matt Cassel.
The decision to do so is hardly unexpected and gives the club two main options: They can trade the 26-year-old quarterback if all continues to go well with Tom Brady's rehabilitation from a knee injury, or they can keep him.
Nonsense, huh? PERFECT sense is more like it. But then again, Belichick is a dope who has no idea what he's doing or how to win a Super Bowl, so maybe you're right...
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They aren't going to pay Top 5 QB money for a backup.
Who says they intend to pay? Quote:
Pats trade Cassel to Chiefs
Matt Cassel finished 10th in the NFL with an 89.4 quarterback rating last season.
John W. McDonough/SI
The New England Patriots have traded quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel to Kansas City for the Chiefs' second-round pick in the 2009 draft, SI.com has learned.
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It's more likely that they'll re-sign him to a reasonable contract and then trade him for whatever picks they can get with the team trading for him assuming his contract.
Now THIS is nonsense.
1) No player would sign a team-friendly, TRADE-friendly contract that eliminates any possibility of being able to pick where he goes, especially when that contract,
2) Comes with a smallish signing bonus when he can sign a FRANCHISE tender and pocket a cool $14+ million dollars.
You've got this thing completely backwards.
Flynn won't sign chit other than a franchise tender before the ink dries. No agent in the country is going to allow him to sign a mediocre contract under this situation.
The only thing the Packers can do is slap a tag on him in order to get something for him, just like the Pats did. Now according to the CBA this is technically illegal, but that doesn't stop teams from doing it.
MAC Quote:
Toad...did I say "break the bank?"
Here's what you said, Mac: Quote:
...IF the Browns want to upgrade the QB position, opening the vault for Flynn would be a good move.
Pursuing Flynn to the "max" is a no brainer
Break the bank...pursuing "to the max"...opening the vault... Tell me you aren't saying break the bank...
I'm gonna give you an out, Mac, just because we've been doing this for a decade now, my man.  Hard to believe we've been debating QB's for more than ten years now.
Tell me how much you'd pay for Flynn.
Let's say he's a free agent and goes to the highest bidder. You don't wanna say "break the bank" (as though "opening the vault" is different.  ) so what does "opening the vault" mean to you? Give me a number...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah, it's idiotic.
Trust me, the GB Packers aren't going to franchise Matt Flynn.
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I'd be shocked IF Tannehill was there at 25 let alone round 2 or 3.
IF we'd want him I'll bet we'd have to package 25 and something else to move up.
You could be right, but I don't think so. Quarterbacks often fall farther than their value simply because most teams are set at the position. Of course, Barkley staying helps Tannehill's chances in Round 1, but there are only 3-4 teams likely to consider a QB early. So, Indy gets Luck, either we, DC or Miami gets RGIII. Maybe someone takes Landry Jones. Seattle looks like they will roll next year with Jackson. So someone would have to definitely see Tannehill as their next starter and decide to use their first (and only first) round pick on him. I don't see it. Combine could change everything, though.
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They may not, but it's FAR from nonsense and/or idiotic, which is what you called the concept. Considering that's exactly what the Pats did a couple of years ago, it'd be nothing short of smart business, assuming they can paint it in such a way as to circumvent the CBA. All they have to say is that in today's NFL, it's critical to have a good backup.
But ok, I will trust you. Don't let me down. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They may not, but it's FAR from nonsense and/or idiotic, which is what you called the concept. Considering that's exactly what the Pats did a couple of years ago, it'd be nothing short of smart business, assuming they can paint it in such a way as to circumvent the CBA. All they have to say is that in today's NFL, it's critical to have a good backup.
But ok, I will trust you. Don't let me down.
U bet your ass they could and WOULD tag em'...That's smart FO work...
WTF is this Break the Bank crap???...We got rocks in our collective asses if we give Flynn a contract at 5 years 50M...No gosh damn way...
Flynn just so happens to be throwin' on a team with a finely tuned offense goin' on right now...
Flynn would be a HUGE MISTAKE here...
Go Browns!!!
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Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but I think you mean Flynn would be a big mistake here at that price of $50 mil. I'd agree. However, if he came at the cost of a decent contract combined with another QB waiting in the wings who isn't McCoy or Wallace, then I think it's a smart move.
Having said that, I don't see how the Packers don't restrict him. He's just too valuable to let go for nothing after that game he just had.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They're likely to tag Finley.
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So we offer him a package of what a QB would get at 4 and take Blackmon if the Rams are stupid enough to pass on him. The risk is the same expect you don't lose the pick on a rookie QB.
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So we offer him a package of what a QB would get at 4 and take Blackmon if the Rams are stupid enough to pass on him. The risk is the same expect you don't lose the pick on a rookie QB.
our best hope for Blackmon is for the Rams to trade down with MIA/WAS who want RGIII and the Vikings take Kalil (or Claiborne).
#gmstrong
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Flynn we see in two NFL games in two years. In both games, did the defense have much time to prepare for him? And what did they have to go off of.
So what you are saying is that Flynn can do things that Rodgers can't and therefore the defenses couldn't prepare adequately for him? 
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Something tells me we would be better off signing Flynn and using the 2 first rounds on playmakers then signing RGIII if available or having to trade up to get RGIII or Luck.
This is sounding more and more like the way to go. Getting a qb who is (or isn't) any more proven that the rookies available to us.....AND keeping all of our quality draft picks. Like someone said, it isn't our money.
I said that, and it's true.
Plus, with the new CBA we will have to start spending up towards the cap figure, and rookies aren't going to get it with the wage scale.
Flynn is exactly the type of guy who is going to get the cash.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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They're likely to tag Finley.
They don't want to listen to reason. LOL
Finley has been a big weapon for them, I just don't see them not making him their first priority.
.
So yes NE did franchise their backup QB, and promptly traded him, but who did they have to tag otherwise?
Know one.
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Plus, with the new CBA we will have to start spending up towards the cap figure, and rookies aren't going to get it with the wage scale.
I should probably know this, but in which year do we have to be at a certain percentage of the CAP or be fined?
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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They may not, but it's FAR from nonsense and/or idiotic, which is what you called the concept. Considering that's exactly what the Pats did a couple of years ago, it'd be nothing short of smart business, assuming they can paint it in such a way as to circumvent the CBA. All they have to say is that in today's NFL, it's critical to have a good backup.
But ok, I will trust you. Don't let me down.
Yes it is idiotic. What other QBs will be available to be drafted or obtained in free agency or traded for?
Drew Brees would be available. He's a free agent after the Saints season ends. He might return to Cajun country, but throwing insane amounts of money at him might lure him away. He could also allow McCoy to sit and learn the WCO from an elite WCO QB.
Alex Smith is also a WCO QB that will be a free agent when the 49ers season ends.
Sure, you'll have to pay more to land either one (if you can) over Flynn, but you pretty much know what you're getting with them.
Then, there are a plethora of WCO QBs in the draft that you could take. Flynn isn't the end all and be all. Is Green Bay willing to franchise Flynn only to find out that there aren't any serious interest by teams at what the Packers would want? I don't think so, especially with Jermichael Finley also hitting free agency. Maybe they can sign Finley, but I dare say that they'll wait to see if they can and if they can't, they'll slap that franchise tag on him over slapping it on Flynn.
Don't worry. If the Browns want Flynn, they'll just have to offer him more money than anyone else and promises to improve the weapons on the team. That shouldn't be hard for them to do since it should be a priority of the team to do no matter who is the signal caller next year.
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Plus, with the new CBA we will have to start spending up towards the cap figure, and rookies aren't going to get it with the wage scale.
I should probably know this, but in which year do we have to be at a certain percentage of the CAP or be fined?
I don't think that has been defined as all know it takes time, but my thinking is next year teams need to start moving towards the 90-95% mark.
I'd say next year might have a bit of room, but by 2013 teams on average need to be there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Starting in the third season of the CBA teams have to spend above the salary floor, 90% I believe it is.
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Starting in the third season of the CBA teams have to spend above the salary floor, 90% I believe it is.
Thanks.....I hadn't heard a firm number but assumed by year 3 it would need to be getting close.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
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They may not, but it's FAR from nonsense and/or idiotic, which is what you called the concept. Considering that's exactly what the Pats did a couple of years ago, it'd be nothing short of smart business, assuming they can paint it in such a way as to circumvent the CBA. All they have to say is that in today's NFL, it's critical to have a good backup.
But ok, I will trust you. Don't let me down.
U bet your ass they could and WOULD tag em'...That's smart FO work...
WTF is this Break the Bank crap???...We got rocks in our collective asses if we give Flynn a contract at 5 years 50M...No gosh damn way...
Flynn just so happens to be throwin' on a team with a finely tuned offense goin' on right now...
Flynn would be a HUGE MISTAKE here...
And again ..... the natural thing for a team to do when playing the Packers, and finding out that Aaron Rodgers will be sitting on the sidelines, is to let down big time, expecting a cakewalk. You start with a defense that is close to, if not in, the bottom third of the NFL in scoring and yards both, then factor in the "Oh, we're not playing Rodgers" factor, and it's only natural that something bizarre happened.
We saw it in the playoffs with Kelly Holcomb years ago. "Oh good, we get that backup! This will be like a day off!" ...... and it isn't. suddenly things snowball .... and it turns into a career day like few have ever seen before.
Any team that backs up the Brinks truck for Flynn gets what the deserve. The best might well be an average guy who they drastically overpay. The worse ...... cap hell, buried in bonuses and guaranteed money, and stuck with a horribly overrated QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Starting in the third season of the CBA teams have to spend above the salary floor, 90% I believe it is.
Thanks.....I hadn't heard a firm number but assumed by year 3 it would need to be getting close.
I Knew there was a number and timeframe, I just didn't remember what it was.. thanks to you and Adam..
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MAC Quote:
Toad...did I say "break the bank?"
Here's what you said, Mac: Quote:
...IF the Browns want to upgrade the QB position, opening the vault for Flynn would be a good move.
Pursuing Flynn to the "max" is a no brainer
Break the bank...pursuing "to the max"...opening the vault... Tell me you aren't saying break the bank...
I'm gonna give you an out, Mac, just because we've been doing this for a decade now, my man. Hard to believe we've been debating QB's for more than ten years now.
Tell me how much you'd pay for Flynn.
Let's say he's a free agent and goes to the highest bidder. You don't wanna say "break the bank" (as though "opening the vault" is different. ) so what does "opening the vault" mean to you? Give me a number...
Toad...thank you for admitting, I did not say "break the bank"...those were your words, not mine.
I said, " ...IF the Browns want to upgrade the QB position, opening the vault for Flynn would be a good move."
.......I was thinking in terms of the free agent money the Browns decided not to spend last season. Time to spend some of that free agent money the Browns have been sitting on.
I said " Pursuing Flynn to the "max" is a no brainer IF the Browns are looking to upgrade the QB position".
.......yep, the Browns would need to compete for Flynn's service if other teams were also pursuing him....yep, that would most likely mean the Browns would have to compete financially too...
Look, you are free to interpret what I said, regardless of how accurate that interpretation is...it ends being your opinion of what I said...but I never said "break the bank"...BTW, who knows what "break the bank" equals in dollars?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Put DA, Quinn, Frye, Wallace, McCoy in Green Bay and they are probably back to being a 6 win team at best. Our OL is playing better than their OL. The big difference is Packers receivers catch the ball in stride with a difficulty level of 1. Our guys the ball is everywhere and more often than not the difficulty level is atleast 7 or above with the ball high and behind and the defender bearing down on them.
I am not even endorsing Flynn but I saw him make a lot of really simple throws that our QBs just are not making.
Flynn hasn't played enough to get a areal bead on him but in college I saw him enough even though he was behind Russell..(behind..yeah )
The thing is can he do it in Cleveland?
Don't know..I do know if the FO is interested in him ,they better upgrade the wideouts bigtime.
The Browns must get a playmaker at WR one way or another or it won't matter who's calling the signals.
One thing taking a FA QB does is allow them to keep their picks and get playmakers.
I'm not at this point going to say yay or nay if they go after Flynn..I simply don't know enough.
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I think it would take over $50mil to get Matt Flynn signed. Prolly a Matt Cassell contract would make the most sense. 6 yr $60 mil
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Oh I don't know about that. Cassell had practically an entire season of starts with success. Flynn has one great game. No doubt he made himself some money with that game, but he still has much more to prove than Cassell did at the time he got his contract.
I'm guessing Flynn can be had for a $25-30 million dollar deal (maybe even less) with performance escalators to protect both parties.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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I don't know. Schaub and Kolb also both got bigger contracts with only a few starts as a backup. I don't think $25-30mil will do it.
The big thing is having an 'out' clause in the contract. A $50mil/5year contract is fine as long as you only have the first 2 years and $20mil guaranteed so that you can walk away from it if he flames out.
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I agree, it won't happen for 30 mil.
By the time it's all said and done, 40 + incentives would probably get it done.
We have some room this year.
I'd front load the contract, in the event he didn't pan out.
I'd sign the guy, bring in a FA or two and pick up some weapons in the draft.
Boom...now we have a team that might win 5 home games.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I think it would take over $50mil to get Matt Flynn signed. Prolly a Matt Cassell contract would make the most sense. 6 yr $60 mil
If we give Flynn that kinda dough we're as dumb as some think we r...
The only difference between Flynn and McCoy is that he's been in GB under the same Offensive Philosophy and Coaching since he arrived...
Physically these 2 r identical twins...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,846
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,846 |
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I think it would take over $50mil to get Matt Flynn signed. Prolly a Matt Cassell contract would make the most sense. 6 yr $60 mil
If we give Flynn that kinda dough we're as dumb as some think we r...
The only difference between Flynn and McCoy is that he's been in GB under the same Offensive Philosophy and Coaching since he arrived...
Physically these 2 r identical twins...
Mentally they aren't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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I agree, it won't happen for 30 mil.
By the time it's all said and done, 40 + incentives would probably get it done.
We have some room this year.
I'd front load the contract, in the event he didn't pan out.
I'd sign the guy, bring in a FA or two and pick up some weapons in the draft.
Boom...now we have a team that might win 5 home games.
That's my exact plan to fix the offense too.
1. Sign Tom Clements (GB-QB coach) as OC w/ playcalling duties.
2. Sign Matt Flynn UFA QB.
3. Draft Blackmon, Lamar Miller, and either Z.Sanders or Adcock (or someone else if another RT falls) with our first 3 picks.
4. Draft Broyles in the 4th round to be our slot guy.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 814 |
IF the Packers slap the tag on Flynn, no way i give a #1, and a #2 pick. I investigate Shaun hill of detroit or drew Stanton of detroit first.
brian Sipe i think was a 13th rd pick.
he did not have a great arm yet was very effective.
resign hillis,
build a better oline, sign a top WR
THEN and ONLY then
Oh and a real OC not this chump
then "evaluate McCoy.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
Quote:
I agree, it won't happen for 30 mil.
By the time it's all said and done, 40 + incentives would probably get it done.
We have some room this year.
I'd front load the contract, in the event he didn't pan out.
I'd sign the guy, bring in a FA or two and pick up some weapons in the draft.
Boom...now we have a team that might win 5 home games.
That's my exact plan to fix the offense too.
1. Sign Tom Clements (GB-QB coach) as OC w/ playcalling duties.
2. Sign Matt Flynn UFA QB.
3. Draft Blackmon, Lamar Miller, and either Z.Sanders or Adcock (or someone else if another RT falls) with our first 3 picks.
4. Draft Broyles in the 4th round to be our slot guy.
While I could see Heckert going after a FA QB (and it might/might not be Flynn ) I do not see them drafting a lot of offense..I think the unsaid/unspoken word is Heckert is going to do the basic plan of the NFL ..buy offense -draft defense..Holmy said he wished they had done so in Seattle and he regretted that..I actually think thats the plan with them in Cleveland..build the D through the draft while getting young vets for the offense,
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think it would take over $50mil to get Matt Flynn signed. Prolly a Matt Cassell contract would make the most sense. 6 yr $60 mil
If we give Flynn that kinda dough we're as dumb as some think we r...
The only difference between Flynn and McCoy is that he's been in GB under the same Offensive Philosophy and Coaching since he arrived...
Physically these 2 r identical twins...
Mentally they aren't.
I'm curious how you can say that so emphatically..
Flynn came to a team transitioning from one HoF QB to a highly touted replacement and they went 6-10... then they went 11-5 and 10-6... He was given 3 full training camps and 2 full seasons to learn an established system with great veteran leadership... during that period he was able to do nothing but work in the system week after week after week with no fear of being hit in practice and to learn from some very smart mentors and coaches.. He was in the league for almost 3 years before he was asked to even attempt a meaningful pass.. Colt was asked to start his 6th game in the NFL on a bad team with pedestrian at best talent around him and was expected to take the team somewhere, then in year two in a new system with no off-season and roughly the same pedestrian talent only an injured and depleted line and missing his best running back he was expected to improve... to even judge them on the same scale is ridiculous...
It would be like taking twins at birth and giving one to the upper middle class professional family to raise and one to the unemployed welfare collecting family from the hood and surmising that the one given to the professional family must have just been genetically smarter than the other one when he has more success...... 
yebat' Putin
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Matt Flynn? Hmm...
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