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RG3 could go #1, Michael Vick with better size,character, brains and morals. He also has better accuracy. He has that weird ass delivery and his feet are going everywhere. I am not a fan of gimmicky types but many are and he will go first or 2nd.
Luck looks the part in every way. Big, strong, accurate, smart, (stands up in the face of pressure and delivers the ball). Maybe the best I have seen at reading defenses at the college level. He does throw off his back foot a bit to often.
Tannehill big, strong, smart, durable, mobile and accurate. He has a big time arm and runs the same system we are running. Needs experience. I think he is a top 10 talent and you dont have to trade up for him. Best footwork on any of the QBs.
Jones is this years Gabbert. Never worked under center but has a big time arm and a nice crisp release. I think you take him if you can let him learn for a year or two behind Colt.
Matt Flynn accurate, mobile shows the ability to stand in the pocket and read defenses. His arm is about even with Colt maybe a tad better. I dont think he will be a top 10 QB but maybe middle of the pack type.
These are all pretty good paths to take. Heckert is probably wanting to make that signature draft pick at QB that all GMs desire. Holmgren is probably thinking Flynn. Shurmur probably wanting fynn and a draft pick after watching Colt and Wallace.
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i did a quick google search and didnt find much.. it probably hasn't happened too much if at all any seeing that most schools don't put out both a bonified QB and WR in the same class. And if they are, most teams don't have the picks to get them both.
I thought Colt McCoy and his WR (forgot his name) had a close shot to being on the same team.. but bengals got him.
This year it could happen with RG3
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Jordan Shipley. I actually thought he would have been a decent 4th round pick for us but the Bengals grabbed him the 3rd.. he hasn't done much so far.
Most teams probably rarely view WR and QB as their two biggest needs, its usually one or the other.
yebat' Putin
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I'd say stick with Colt and grab Blackmon.
I'd be happy with this. This team needs game changers. That Blackmon is a rare player. When I think of spending another high pick on a QB, I think of the Rams. They have the franchise QB with no receivers, and look where it gets them.
Team Blackmon up with Little and suddenly Colt has some bigtime targets
Then we still have another 1st rounder and 2nd & 3rd picks to fill holes to help Colt and the team succeed.
I was listening to an ex NFL coach talk on ESPN radio and he was saying that, it doesn't matter who your coach is, to be successful in the NFL, you need 6 game changers. Without them, you will not win.
Craig
Browns fan in Canada.
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he looks so small. 6'2" 225lbs.. Not a very tall guy..
Who? Luck???
He's 6'4" and 230+
I think he was talking RG.
On that, I don't think RG is too small.
Years ago when I got to do some of this stuff seriously, I'd gather all my info then do a final "book" on the players I was focusing on. Well, just like McCoy, I've been fortunate enough to be able to watch RG3 because of where I live (I don't get to travel to see these guys in person anymore) and I've seen enough of him to close my "book."
To me, he's as gifted a thrower as the draft has seen in the last decade. In fact, it's my opinion that the last QB to come out who was as naturally gifted in terms of just being born to throw the football is Jeff George. Neither guy bothered with mechanics in college simply because they didn't have to. RG3 will need to get better because of his size (foreshadowing  ) but he's such a natural thrower that it'll translate very well to the NFL.
However, the downside is that he doesn't have natural instincts on how to avoid hits. In that regard, he's just like Mike Vick, which when combined with his stature, is going to cause a future problem.
I know he's listed at 6'2 220. Sure, and McCoy is 6'3 225.
Griffin is going to come in at 6'1, assuming he's spent a couple of days on a gravity-table in order to expand his height. 210 is more likely than 220, unless he decides to go on a weight program for no other reason than to bump up his numbers, which would be the smart thing to do. However, when that little trick is over and all the water-weight is shed, he's going to play at 210.
When you combine his size with his inability to avoid big hits, this means he won't be playing 16 games a year. That subsequently means whoever takes him in the draft better damned-well have a backup QB they can win with.
I have a radical solution for the Browns, and it's one I wouldn't expect them to follow, but it would give us the best chance of any team without a QB to finally solve the issue.
If the cost isn't prohibitive, I'd acquire Flynn to start right now. I'd then draft RG3 and let him ride the bench so he can learn the WCO, how to take snaps, how to run an pro-style offense, etc etc. If Flynn proves to be the man, RG3 can be traded for a very high pick, most likely another 1st rounder. If Flynn falters, RG3 is ready to step in, and we still have a very viable #2.
Yeah, that puts us in a situation where we may not get immediate use from a 1st round pick, but it's essentially in the bank while we carry two options which could potentially fix the QB position. That would still leave us with a couple of very high picks and a bunch of free agent money to plug holes.
Sure, that means dumping McCoy or Wallace, but with Flynn and RG3 here, who would really care? McCoy would be our #3. His contract is team-friendly, and who else could boast of having that kinda guy as the emergency QB?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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that's about the only way I'd be for Matt Flynn.
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that's about the only way I'd be for Matt Flynn.
who is listed at 6'2 225...
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And Indy's gonna trade down to 4 so we can have some "Luck"...
Then trade up to 2 so Indy can have some of what you're spewin'...lmao...
Go Browns!!!
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I thought Colt McCoy and his WR (forgot his name) had a close shot to being on the same team.. but bengals got him.
This year it could happen with RG3
I'm in the minority, in that I think Wright's value is inflated. Having watched him, I've seen too many DB's catch up with him, and I don't see the kind of separation that other 1st round WR's get in college. I believe he's the beneficiary of the combination of the system and RG3, and that he's a 2nd rounder at best, a 3rd or even 4th rounder at worst.
And just out of curiosity, why did you mention Flynn was listed at that size? Maybe you're referencing a different conversation...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I thought Colt McCoy and his WR (forgot his name) had a close shot to being on the same team.. but bengals got him.
This year it could happen with RG3
I'm in the minority, in that I think Wright's value is inflated. Having watched him, I've seen too many DB's catch up with him, and I don't see the kind of separation that other 1st round WR's get in college. I believe he's the beneficiary of the combination of the system and RG3, and that he's a 2nd rounder at best, a 3rd or even 4th rounder at worst.
And just out of curiosity, why did you mention Flynn was listed at that size? Maybe you're referencing a different conversation...
U ain't the only one...I don't see a 5'10" WR in round one for us anyway...He's a SLOT...
Rather have an injured Broyles with one of our 4's...
Go Browns!!!
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Sorry Toad there are some points I disagree with:
Griffin over time can change his game. Baylor's offense uses designed run plays for him on a regular basis. The NFL will change that. They won't take away his game but they will alter it. He will learn to slid and avoid hits. Of course it will not happen over night. But he is a bright kid and coachable.
Cap friendly or not if the Browns go with Flynn and or Griffin, McCoy will have to go. Maybe in trade for a 5th or 6th rounder or packaged in another deal.
He would be perfect behind Brees in New Orleans. He is a legit backup. But, I do not see him as a third string backup in Cleveland. Not fair to him and I believe he has locker room support that would cause issues. Bad harmony. Wallace on the other hand is a career backup.That is his role and the players know it.
I wanted to cry when the Colts won Sunday. I will forever hate the people involved in the bad snap that caused the missed chip shot field goal against the Rams. We win that game. The Browns have the ammo to get Andrew Luck.
In my humble opinion the best NFL QB prospect I have ever seen.
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I know he's listed at 6'2 220. Sure, and McCoy is 6'3 225.
True - the combine has McCoy at 6'1" (1/8) -- if RG3 is actually 6'2", it won't be a problem, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him come in at 5'11"-6'0" Quote:
If the cost isn't prohibitive, I'd acquire Flynn to start right now. I'd then draft RG3 and let him ride the bench so he can learn the WCO, how to take snaps, how to run an pro-style offense, etc etc. If Flynn proves to be the man, RG3 can be traded for a very high pick, most likely another 1st rounder. If Flynn falters, RG3 is ready to step in, and we still have a very viable #2.
Yeah, that puts us in a situation where we may not get immediate use from a 1st round pick, but it's essentially in the bank while we carry two options which could potentially fix the QB position. That would still leave us with a couple of very high picks and a bunch of free agent money to plug holes.
That's a completely ridiculous amount of money (spending $70+ million or so on the QB is only reasonable if you're getting a bona fide NFL QB in his prime). If we draft RG3, it's much better to keep Colt for this next year - if he flops and you're comfortable with RG3, you put him in halfway through the season -- if Colt does well you have a SD situation, which is great.
~Lyuokdea
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Still, when he was standing next to the reporter on that interview after the game, he just looked small to me... FWIW
Are you referring to the interview with Heather Cox? Here is a picture of her with Justin Blackmon (who she is about as tall as) and Weeden, who she isn't much shorter than... this is not a tiny woman.. She played D1 volleyball for a school that was in the Womens Volleyball Final 4, she is easily 6' tall if not taller.
I don't remember, I was watching the kid and listening to him. I suppose it could have been her.. But I can't be sure.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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You (the general you... not you specifically) know, Andrew Luck will have to learn our system, too. How many times did we line up with 3 TEs and 2 RBs on 1st down this year? They seemed to do that a lot in the stanford game yesterday.
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Cap friendly or not if the Browns go with Flynn and or Griffin, McCoy will have to go.
Why would McCoy have to go and not Wallace? Wallace has shown he's not an upgrade over McCoy, and McCoy at least has some upside, imo. Plus, I believe Wallace makes quite a bit more money.
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McCoy might have a minimally higher trade value than Wallace.
That being said, I can't see us keeping Wallace or McCoy if we went and got 2 potential starters. Our 3rd would be a guy like Thad Lewis, who is inexpensive, and who might develop, but could stay in that 3rd spot without causing a fuss on the team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Agree completely - if we get a new QB we either keep McCoy as a starter for next year (especially if it's RG3, Jones, or Tannehill) or we keep him as a backup (if it's Luck or Flynn or another established starter).
No reason to jettison McCoy right now, he's:
1.) Cheaper than Wallace and signed long term
2.) Still has potential to improve
3.) Is better at the moment (QB rating was almost 10 points higher this year -- and he didn't have a healthy Hillis).
Not sure why you'd get rid of that just because you want to avoid some controversy in the media.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 01/03/12 05:17 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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I'd say stick with Colt and grab Blackmon.
I'd be happy with this. This team needs game changers. That Blackmon is a rare player. When I think of spending another high pick on a QB, I think of the Rams. They have the franchise QB with no receivers, and look where it gets them.
Team Blackmon up with Little and suddenly Colt has some bigtime targets
Then we still have another 1st rounder and 2nd & 3rd picks to fill holes to help Colt and the team succeed.
I was listening to an ex NFL coach talk on ESPN radio and he was saying that, it doesn't matter who your coach is, to be successful in the NFL, you need 6 game changers. Without them, you will not win.
Craig
I would have to agree with this as well...However the aforementioned Ram's may have the same idea....then again they also need OLine help BADLY as well....
Personally I am sick and tired of setting up QB's to fail. So regardless if Colt is the guy or not. Lets fix some of those things around him. And if he is not showing the improvement we need...THEN lets throw the 3 or 4 picks together for the STUD QB...at least when we bring THAT guy in he will be in a position where he has tools to work with and won't be ruined straight out of the gate.
I found something pretty interesting....Let me throw some numbers out at you...If the following numbers were shown by a QB after 13 games after being in the same system for THREE YEARS.....what would your reaction to it be???
GP - 13
GS - 13
ATT - 397
COMP - 253
YDS - 2897
% - 63.7
TD - 15
INT - 10
SCK - 21
SCK YDS - 157
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I actually feel percentage wise.. we have a better chance of RG3 falling to us than Blackmon... He's going top 3 barring there are no trades. That's the only way Blackmon falls to us.
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We have had a lot of QBs that have been "set up to fail here" go on to play for other teams.
Which one has reached even average performance after he left?
Holcomb went on to play elsewhere.
So did Frye.
Quinn too.
Anderson also.
Which guy went on the succeed elsewhere, showing that our "inferior talent everywhere else" was holding him back? Which guy had as much success in a different uniform as he had here?
Sometimes a QB is just bad because he doesn't have the talent and capability to be good.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Garcia went on and performed well...but I need to ask...what is your point????...we RUINED any potential they had before they left...
Case and point is with Houston and David Carr....That kid had potential written all over him...and he had an excellent chance to succeed. But his chances were beaten out of him as well in a different city...
I am not saying we had World Beaters here like Spergon Wynn...lol...Oh wait....lol But I am saying whatever talent we did have we setup to fail FROM THE GET GO and not Peyton Manning, not Tom Brady, not Otto Graham, nor Joe Montana, could have willed success out of those situations.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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If the cost isn't prohibitive, I'd acquire Flynn to start right now. I'd then draft RG3 and let him ride the bench so he can learn the WCO, how to take snaps, how to run an pro-style offense, etc etc. If Flynn proves to be the man, RG3 can be traded for a very high pick, most likely another 1st rounder. If Flynn falters, RG3 is ready to step in, and we still have a very viable #2.
toad...while I welcome your support for pursuing Flynn in free agency...it really is a no brainer... "if" the Browns are looking to upgrade the QB position...
BUT...this idea of drafting RG after signing Flynn makes absolutely "no sense".
Do you really believe Flynn would agree to sign on with the Browns knowing the Browns are questioning his ability, right out of the box, by drafting a QB at #4 or higher in the 2012 draft?
Also, you have stated your concerns about the cost of signing Flynn...but you have no problem adding another expensive option, drafting a QB with our first pick...Cam Newton signed for 22 million guaranteed ...Jake Locker, the second QB taken at #8 signed a 12.5m contract with a 7.6m signing bonus...Blaine Gabbert, the 3rd QB taken at #10 signed a 12m contract, fully guaranteed...using the Browns #4 pick to draft a backup QB is unrealistic...and that is being polite.
You obviously see that Flynn could be a possibility as the Browns starter but you are still hung up on RGIII. There is no chance the Browns are going to sign Flynn in free agency then turn around and draft a QB at #4....especially given the many needs the team has.
Think about this...signing Flynn in free agency and then drafting Blackmon...now those moves make sense and would improve the offensive side of the ball.
You say you are concerned about "breaking the bank" (your words) for Flynn but have no problem dropping millions more on a rookie backup...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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We have had a lot of QBs that have been "set up to fail here" go on to play for other teams.
Which one has reached even average performance after he left?
...
Which guy went on the succeed elsewhere, showing that our "inferior talent everywhere else" was holding him back? Which guy had as much success in a different uniform as he had here?
You don't need to look elsewhere... just right here.
In 2007, Anderson had Winslow, Edwards and JJ... and that very average-at-best QB went to the Pro Bowl.
In 2008, JJ's career was ended by injury and Edwards was dropping balls left and right.... and suddenly, a "Pro Bowl" QB looked very, very crappy.
Put the weapons around a QB, and you'll get a good show. Without weapons to go to, it won't matter worth a damn who the QB is.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I actually feel percentage wise.. we have a better chance of RG3 falling to us than Blackmon... He's going top 3 barring there are no trades. That's the only way Blackmon falls to us.
I agree if there are no trades. But, I also think that Miami or Washington is going to trade up (right now).
Of course, if Peyton goes to Miami and we sign Flynn, then Washington has very little reason to trade up and Blackmon is gone.
Oh dangit! Cmon Peyton. Choose SF or NYJ. Please.
#gmstrong
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We have had a lot of QBs that have been "set up to fail here" go on to play for other teams.
Which one has reached even average performance after he left?
...
Which guy went on the succeed elsewhere, showing that our "inferior talent everywhere else" was holding him back? Which guy had as much success in a different uniform as he had here?
You don't need to look elsewhere... just right here.
In 2007, Anderson had Winslow, Edwards and JJ... and that very average-at-best QB went to the Pro Bowl.
In 2008, JJ's career was ended by injury and Edwards was dropping balls left and right.... and suddenly, a "Pro Bowl" QB looked very, very crappy.
Put the weapons around a QB, and you'll get a good show. Without weapons to go to, it won't matter worth a damn who the QB is.
And then he went to Arizona with Fitzgerald ..... and still stunk up the joint.
DA starter sliding as teams got a "book" on him. They started to take away what he liked to do, and he never adjusted.
Obviously every QB needs players around him ..... but elite QBs make his weapons better, while so-so QBs drag their weapons down closer to their level.
There is always an isolated exception here or there, but there is a reason they are exceptions. Looking back at Anderson, what happened when Frye was the QB? I said that he was getting his OL abused by the fans because he couldn't recognize pressure if it wore a sign, I said that he was horrible as far as accuracy. Other fans lambasted my opinions ....... until Frye got sacked 5 times in the Steelers game ...... then Anderson got sacked, what(?), 20 times the rest of the year? Anderson got into the game and suddenly we had an OL. Suddenly we had receivers. Suddenly we could move the ball and score TDs.
Just because a QB gets "better players" doesn't mean that his weaknesses suddenly correct themselves. I think that's what a lot of fans expect. It rarely happens that a QB who has average talent around him and performs at a sub par level suddenly becomes an All Pro player because his cast improves. If a QB has a situation like in St Louis, where they lost half of their offense to injuries, and went through QBs left and right, well that's one thing. If you have a largely stable team, and have a QB whose performance declines, then this has to be a concern. I think this is where we're at.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So whats your point???? that a QB can make a difference???? Well DUH!!! Of course a QB can make a difference...But the point I am trying to make is before we try to make a change a QB...let us make sure we are setting up an environment for a QB to succeed. I don't care if you have the greatest QB God has ever created....if you place him in the situations that we have placed QB's in...you will destroy any chance he has to succeed in the NFL. Will he do better than Charlie Frye??? Sure....Great...he will still fail and we will ruin him...but at least he will do better than Charlie Frye.....  LETS FIX THE PROBLEM FIRST....And if the QB is still not the All Pro we wanted...we at least have an atmosphere where a new guy who does have the talent can take over and have a chance to succeed instead of asking him to reach the moon with a bottle rocket. So no one wants to comment on the stats of the guy 3 years in the system???? (eerily similar but slightly better than Colts)....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I think if McCoy had gone to the Packers and got to practice and sit in a no pressure environment for a couple years and learn the system and the position and then come in for some spot relief on a great offense that we would wish we had him next year. 
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And then he went to Arizona with Fitzgerald ..... and still stunk up the joint.
Correct. Didn't they also have the "all world" Matt Leinert also? The guy that was the "most nfl ready qb in years"? (Quinn was also billed as that if I remember correctly).
What's my point? You don't give away 3 first round picks plus a second round pick for ANY player from the draft. Just too big of a risk. That is my only point. Look - every single year there is a supposed "can't miss qb" prospect in the draft. EVERY single year we hear that. Many on here were higher on Barkley than Luck............
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DA starter sliding as teams got a "book" on him. They started to take away what he liked to do, and he never adjusted.
Yet in a different thread, you laud Cam Newton and say "look what he did for the team"....you then proceed to throw out stats. They're interesting stats - but, what about next year? Will he be as good? Or will the book be out on him? Who knows. Did carolina throw 3 first round picks and a second at some other team to get him? I'm pretty sure not. In fact, I think they had the first pick all to themselves.
He may pan out for them. He may not. But at least they still have/had all their other picks to help in future years. Apparently they'll need them, as they finished 6-10 this year, right? So that one, stud qb - didn't do much for them, did he? Had carolina thrown 3 first rounders and a second round pick out to get newton - would you still cite his stats as "success"? I think not.
I don't care if a team leads the league in points scored - if they are 6-10.
Can you understand what I'm saying? I'm not knocking Luck - or RG - what I'm saying is NO one is worth what it looks like it would take Luck. NO one. Not for a team like the browns that have so many other needs as well.
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Obviously every QB needs players around him ..... but elite QBs make his weapons better, while so-so QBs drag their weapons down closer to their level.
And luck is "elite" because..............? You say so? Scouts say so? (Leaf, Akili Smith, Couch, Ware, Harrington, Quinn, etc etc etc) Again, all I'm saying is drafting ANYONE is a crap shoot. Any position. I personally don't sell this years picks and next years for anyone. Can you understand that?
It seems that some people are SO of the opinion that Luck is a can't miss all pro. He may look good - he may BE good. The operative word is MAY. You don't sell out for MAY.
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There is always an isolated exception here or there, but there is a reason they are exceptions. Looking back at Anderson, what happened when Frye was the QB? I said that he was getting his OL abused by the fans because he couldn't recognize pressure if it wore a sign, I said that he was horrible as far as accuracy. Other fans lambasted my opinions ....... until Frye got sacked 5 times in the Steelers game ...... then Anderson got sacked, what(?), 20 times the rest of the year? Anderson got into the game and suddenly we had an OL. Suddenly we had receivers. Suddenly we could move the ball and score TDs. [/quot]
You bounce around more than a fart in a skillet.......just earlier you told us how Anderson was terrible because he went elsewhere and didn't excel........teams got "book" on him. But now you use him to show how a qb makes others better because of a few games?
THat might be my biggest beef. People that want to sell the farm for Luck or RG change their ratings - or bar - on what is being discussed at the time. They have no idea that what they say in one post, they contradict in another post!
Seriously - you do it all the time. "Anderson made the line better", then "Anderson sucked in Arizona". "holcomb had a great game against the steelers"...then "holcomb sucked".
"the qb makes others better", then "quarter backs can't do it themselves".............seriously - every thread for however long is full of "Colt sucks and we suck because of colt".........and then it moves to "all we need to do is get Luck and we'll be better - look at newton and what he did (6-10....but I'm sure I'll be told how he made the team better..........even though the "book" on him hasn't been written................)
Honestly - you love Luck. You hate colt. We get it. But can you at least stick to the same judging parameters across the board when you throw out your opinion? If someone mentions something, then you resort to "rodgers this", or "Brady that", or "brees this"........totally ignoring the parts of rodgers (sat for how long?), Brady (6th round pick) brees (traded because of rivers).
You don't need to convince anyone our team needs improvement. We all know it. What you need to do is prove that throwing away 3 first round picks, and at least one second round - is going to be worth. If you can prove that, go ahead. Sad thing is, it can't be proven, and it's too big of a risk for the team.
I've said it and said it and said it - if we can get Luck or RG for a decent trade - not selling our future - let's go do it.
If we can't - why mortgage the future on a "has all the potential and MIGHT" prospect?
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Just because a QB gets "better players" doesn't mean that his weaknesses suddenly correct themselves. I think that's what a lot of fans expect. It rarely happens that a QB who has average talent around him and performs at a sub par level suddenly becomes an All Pro player because his cast improves. If a QB has a situation like in St Louis, where they lost half of their offense to injuries, and went through QBs left and right, well that's one thing. If you have a largely stable team, and have a QB whose performance declines, then this has to be a concern. I think this is where we're at.
I like how you end that - a not so subtle jab at Colt - yet again. But, we're supposed to believe we had a "stable" team this year?
Our line was "stable" and average? Our running backs were stable and average? Our receiving core was stable and average?
Come on.
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Dawg Talker
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I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Yea - but all we need to do is get Luck or RG - sell out 3 first round picks, a second or so - move up 1 or 2 spots in the draft to get them - and our line will be fixed, our receivers will catch (because we all know that NO receiver should be expected to catch a ball 1 foot off the mark), and our running game will be awesome..............................we just need that ONE piece. 
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Legend
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Yet in a different thread, you laud Cam Newton and say "look what he did for the team"....you then proceed to throw out stats. They're interesting stats - but, what about next year? Will he be as good? Or will the book be out on him? Who knows. Did carolina throw 3 first round picks and a second at some other team to get him? I'm pretty sure not. In fact, I think they had the first pick all to themselves.
I will reiterate that I'm not piling on Cam Newton but the reason Carolina had the #1 pick was because they went 2-14 largely because of their revolving door at QB and some other injuries.. the year before that they were 8-8 and the year before that they were 12-4 with largely the same skill players, except the QB... they had a handful of key players who had proven that they can win in this league... How many guys on our offense have EVER been a contributing factor on a 12 win team?
This team only gave up 21 more points than it did last year and they scored 210 more points than they did last year and that 190 point swing equated to 2 more wins... I think that shows how bad they were last year...
yebat' Putin
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From about week 6 to week 15 we had arguably a top 10 offensive line. The only game they played like crap was against the Texans and everyone played like crap in that game on both sides of the ball.
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Hall of Famer
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Mack didn't exactly have a stellar year !
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From about week 6 to week 15 we had arguably a top 10 offensive line. The only game they played like crap was against the Texans and everyone played like crap in that game on both sides of the ball.
Arguably is right....what kind of "Top Ten" Oline won't pull it's guards to run Outside???? We didn't and couldn't run outside all year long because we couldn't get our slow footed guards out in front. So defenses know we are one dimensional in the run game. (Yay)....What kind of "Top Ten" Oline gives up 28 sacks in that span...and produces just a single 100 yard rusher ....Is that the "Top Ten" OLine you are talking about????
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Did you know this year we were UNDEFEATED in games that we scored more points than the other team...
Stats are fun.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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we were also 1 of only 2 teams to defeat the Green Bay Packers
#gmstrong
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OK...if you honestly believe that we were a "Top Ten" Oline....then....pass me whatever it is you are smoking....It certainly distorts reality. Giving up almost 3 sacks a game is not exactly what I would consider a characteristic of a top flight Offensive Line. Being the cause of your run game failures is not what I consider the ideal makings of an OLine. If an opposing team knows you can't run outside, they will load the box to stop you inside. Then they have stopped your run game completely and have made your entire offense one dimensional and can then pin their ears back and go after the QB. Yeah....that's Top Ten Quality there!!!!!  We did not have a Top Ten OLine at any time this year. Pinkston and Luvauo were major reasons.(Won't even get into Pashos nor Mack's off year) And while they did improve (and they did improve a great deal...especially Pinkston)....They still did not pull the Guards and attempt to run outside on any regular basis by years end....did they???? Is that what you consider the makings of a "Top Ten" OLine???
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Legend
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Legend
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While we were winless in AFC North divisional games this year...
We did not lose a game against teams from the NFC North, South, East, and AFC East...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Since we have returned. we have not placed ONE QB...not a SINGLE ONE...into an environment where he could succeed.
We have had OLine issues since the beginning. The best OLine we have had was last year and we still had major issues on the right side. When we had receivers we had no running game. When we had a running back...we had no OLine....When we had an Oline we had no recievers and this year we had no Oline, no running game and no recievers....
And what amazes me is that we place these QB's in impossible situations....and then we get upset when they fail.......  
Bull.
Everything on offense looked pretty good when we switched from Frye to Anderson. Unfortunately, the league then caught up to what Anderson did well, took that away, and suddenly we had a crappy line and horrible receivers again.
If a QB rolls himself into a sack because he's not aware of what is going on around him, that's not the line's fault.
If a QB cannot make throws to the outside because he doesn't have the arm to do so in the NFL, that's not the receiver's fault.
Almost every WR in the NFL is open against single coverage. They are open either short, or over the top. They are open either to the inside, or to the outside. They are open short, intermediate, or deep. Almost every single time a receiver faces single coverage, he is open somewhere, at some point in his route. The great QBs realize this and learn to get the ball where the receiver is open. Why do you think that so many great QBs take average receivers and suddenly they have career years? It's because great QBs throw receivers open. They attack single coverage every single time. They don't play wimpy football, they identify coverages before the ball is snapped, and they attack where the coverage isn't. They have the arm and accuracy to place the ball where it needs to be placed to create a completion. There's no magic, great QBs are simply better QBs, and have better skills than crappy QBs. They throw and place the ball better than crappy QBs do.
How many times did we see our outside receivers against single coverage? Every down? If not, it's close. How many times do we see McCoy attack those single coverages, short (immediately) or intermediate/long? How often does McCoy look confused and lost as far as what he is seeing? Except for the super short stuff, I would say frequently. I saw him make one stellar WCO throw, and that was on a crossing route that he hit Norwood right in stride. He never made that throw again the rest of the game. He also hit Little on a route where he hadn't made his break yet. beautiful throws. The kind of throws you have to make if you want to be a WCO QB.
He never made those throws again.
We have average level receivers. We don't have a superstar, but a superstar would be wasted with this QB, because he is afraid to challenge single coverages deep. The OL has given very solid protection for the 2nd half of the year, at least. (the illegal hit by Harrison, outside the pocket notwithstanding) Wallace faced 3 very good pass rushed in Arizona, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. he was sacked a total of 6 times. Not perfect, but not horrible. We sacked Cardinals, Ravens, and Steelers QBs a combined 7 times in those same games.
Excellent QB play improves everything on a team. Right now, according to what some are saying, we need to completely blow up the team again and start from scratch because "no QB can win with this team". Maybe we ought to try a different QB before we give up on everyone else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Everything on offense looked pretty good when we switched from Frye to Anderson. Unfortunately, the league then caught up to what Anderson did well, took that away, and suddenly we had a crappy line and horrible receivers again.
Yet in your defense of what newton has done for carolina, you conveniently ignore that.
Once again - you pick and choose. On one hand this..........till your faced with "this ain't that", and you switch to "well, this".
Your criteria for OTHER qb's changes almost every post. At a minimum, pick a set of criteria and stick to it. At least we would know what you wanted - other than "anyone but Colt".
I guarantee if the browns somehow got luck, you'd be one of the first to want a new qb if we weren't in the playoffs in year 2 regardless of not having any upgrades in other positions. (and, truthfully, if we got Luck, didn't make the playoffs in year 2, and you DIDN't gripe about it, you'd be even more 2 faced than you are now.)
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) The Quarterback Thread
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