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He is good. I just don't know if he is a game changer.
He might be. He looked damn good against Stanford. Then again, like I have said elsewhere, the best passing teams in the NFL have rarely drafted receivers in the 1st round.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with your list, but the only problem is we have to make a decision on QB before the draft.
Is it worth the risk of seeing if RGIII drops to us at #4?
Do we package our 2nd rounder to trade up to #2/3 to get him (we do NOT have to use our 1B pick as our 1A+2 is far better than anyone else can offer)?
Do we sign Flynn if he is an UFA?
Do we trade for Flynn if the Packers put the franchise tag on him?
Do we like one of the 'other' QBs enough to draft them at 1B or 2?
Or, do we go 1 more year with Colt and Seneca and see what happens?
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Ignoring what we do starter wise...
I want Wallace off this team ASAP...
1. He sucks.
2. He has one of the worst attitudes on the team.
3. He isn't aware that he sucks, and would rather make our starter look bad in case he can look good...
4. I'm tired of his Hollywood Hogan beard.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'm not in for Flynn. I say if we can't get RGIII (or Luck) at 4, then keep McCoy and Wallace. Like I posted a few days ago, when did Flynn get better than these two guys? I think it has more to do with the system, the time in that system, the coaching, and the surrounding talent. Add on top of that the demeanor/attitude of the team. Even though he's a backup, Flynn has been in a WCO longer than McCoy.
I think we need as many shots as possible at making significant upgrades on our team. Rounds 1 and 2 are great places to do that. Top of round 3 is another good place.
*edit* and I'm not particularly sold on any of the other QBs in the draft. Tannehill, Weeden... IMO they aren't any more likely to bust than most middle-of-the road prospects at QB, but I want to draft as many players as would be upgrades as possible. With Luck and RGIII, it's easy to see how we upgrade the QB position. Those guys, I'm not so sure. I'd rather have an excellent LB, RT, CB, WR prospect than another guy who may or may not be an OK QB.
QB isn't like other positions. Incremental talent upgrades are good at most positions. I don't want us acquiring any new QBs who aren't studs. Mourg and Django may disagree with me, but I want us to draft Luck, RGIII, or no QB.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 01/04/12 06:42 PM.
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Quote:
Then again, like I have said elsewhere, the best passing teams in the NFL have rarely drafted receivers in the 1st round.
That's true unless you count Meacham for the Saints, Calvin Johnson for the Lions, Hakeem Nicks for the Giants, Vincent Jackson for the Chargers, Dez Bryant for the Cowboys, Julio Jones and Roddy White for the Falcons, Jeremy Maclin for the Eagles and Heath Miller (a TE, not a WR) for the Steelers..
That's 7 of the top 10 passing offenses in the NFL this year with a first round WR pick and one with a first round pass catching TE.. the Pats and Packers both have 2nd round picks in Deion Branch and Jordy Nelson and Greg Jennings... I will also add that the best year for the Pats offense and for Tom Brady and the year they scored the most points and went 16-0 was with Randy Moss.. another first round pick..
I guess it all depends on your definition of "rarely"..
yebat' Putin
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there is no way the Packers Franchise Flynn. They would be paying him top money to sit. Hes going to FA.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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They can franchise him so that he is restricted, then trade him to the team that offers the most. It's what the Patriots did with Matt Cassel. I don't know if that's what they will do, but they most definitely can do it.
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I broke it all down earlier. I'm not going to do so again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
there is no way the Packers Franchise Flynn. They would be paying him top money to sit. Hes going to FA.
don't want to take anymore time in the Blackmon thread on Flynn - but from the Flynn thread: the Packers could franchise Flynn to trade him like NE did with Cassel (even though that is illegal in the CBA). the most likely reason they would not is that they need that tag for Finley and they would handcuff themselves under the cap until the trade was processed.
#gmstrong
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I think VJ was a 2nd-ronder, no?
Also, if you change that to "rely on" 1st round picks, then you can take Meacham out, who was NO's 5th-leading receiver.
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Quote:
I broke it all down earlier. I'm not going to do so again.
You broke it down that 7 of the top 10 passing teams in the NFL this year had first round draft picks at WR and you still said it rarely happens?
yebat' Putin
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They can franchise him so that he is restricted, then trade him to the team that offers the most. It's what the Patriots did with Matt Cassel. I don't know if that's what they will do, but they most definitely can do it.
Ok perhaps I miss understand something on how that works. This is from wiki
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Types of franchise tagThere are two types of franchise tag designations: the exclusive rights franchise tag, and non-exclusive rights franchise tag:
An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams.
A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position in the previous year, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if he signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.
Correction: As of the new CBA, the franchise tag offer will be the average of the top paid player at the respective position over the last five seasons. This will actually reduce the amount that a team would need to offer a player.
So my understanding is they would have to pay him top 5 money divided from the last 5 years probably about 10 mil a year or he can find a trade partner that would pay him top 5 money (which why wouldnt you ask for what GB would have to pay you) AND give up 2 first round picks?
Yeah I guess they could do it but eventually they would have to drop the tag and hes a FA or someone is dumb enough to give up 2 1st. Again not sure.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Ok sorry about that, your correct we shouldnt waste anymore time posting Flynn stuff here. My bad.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I broke it all down earlier. I'm not going to do so again.
You broke it down that 7 of the top 10 passing teams in the NFL this year had first round draft picks at WR and you still said it rarely happens?
Not to mention that the Steelers also drafted Plaxico Burress and Santonio Holmes in the first round, both of whom contributed greatly to championship teams.
You go back the year before, and you see the same pattern among top passing teams - Andre Johnson in Houston, the Colts with Wayne and Clark ... the year before that, it's still the usual suspects, plus Minnesota and Percy Harvin.
If you look back at the last decade, most of the time the top passing attacks have a first round WR.
Me? I'd rather stay away from Blackmon at #4, but I don't know what YTown is talking about here.
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j/c..
on some of the comments about Colt being mediocre.. I think Colt would take more risks and throw more deep if his WR's saved him more often. With so many drops I think Colt has put a mental block in some of the throws he makes b/c he's not truly confident that his WR's will make the catch.
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Alex Smith is also a mediocre QB.
McCoy is well below mediocre.
And so is his supporting cast.. how come McCoy bashers don't ever bring that up?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
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Alex Smith is also a mediocre QB.
McCoy is well below mediocre.
And so is his supporting cast.. how come McCoy bashers don't ever bring that up?
It's easy to ignore something like that.
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Maybe we can take the bickering offline?
As for Blackmon, I LOVE his attitude. He's nasty, feisty and a bit of a hot head. That's exactly what this pathetic team is missing. Someone who will bring some much needed attitude to the lake front.
People saying his size is a concern? Reggie Wayne and Wes Welker disagree with you. Besides, DUDE IS RIPPED. He does look like a LBJ man-child out there.
Instant impact on this team. Stretches the field and will demand double teams. That opens up the run game and other WRs. This offense becomes instantly better, even with the same mediocre QB play.
If Luck and RG3 are off the board, this is the no-brainer pick.
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*In Baker we trust*
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People criticize his speed too but watching the bowl game vs Stanford erased all doubts I had about his speed. He just ran away from people.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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People will say that Stanford's DBs aren't that good. So, the key is, can he run away from the guys in the pros? All of them? Probably not. There are some pretty darn fast DBs out there. But most of them? I'm willing to be he can. And, if not, he'll just throw them on the ground. 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Also, if Blackmon puts up good numbers at the combine, I think there's a good chance the Rams take him at 2, or, if he's sitting there at 3 for the Vikings, someone tries to trade to get ahead of us (like Jacksonville).
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I agree that StL or Minny will likely take Blackmon if there is not a trade-up of some kind for RGIII. I'm hoping Miami or Washington trades up into the top3 to grab RGIII and Blackmon slips to us. Indy - Luck StL - trade down with MIA (Fisher) - RGIII Minn - Kalil Cleveland - Justin Blackmon  Otherwise we will have to hope that either Martin or Claiborne is desired enough by StL or Minn to draft them instead.
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Quote:
Also, if Blackmon puts up good numbers at the combine, I think there's a good chance the Rams take him at 2, or, if he's sitting there at 3 for the Vikings, someone tries to trade to get ahead of us (like Jacksonville).
Interesting decisions for the Rams and Vikings. Both need a LT so possibly Kalil, both need DB help so possibly Claiborne, both need Wr help so possibly Blackmon, both have multiple holes so possibly trade down with somebody interested in RGIII.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Quote:
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Alex Smith is also a mediocre QB.
McCoy is well below mediocre.
And so is his supporting cast.. how come McCoy bashers don't ever bring that up?
Because the mistakes McCoy is making are not problems with his supporting cast.
you had a good run Hank.
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hard to say. he's thrown a bunch of passes where the WR/RB cuts one way and his pass goes to a different cut location. only the coaching staff/players are going to know who made the wrong read. also, there have been a bunch of drops that would have been 1st down plays and kept drives alive. some of the drops have been Colt's fault (leading WRs to bad spots), but others have been good passes that were dropped (Seneca had a couple in the Pitt game happen to him too). of course, Colt also had a bunch of very bad reads and decisions that were obvious (the TroyP INT in the first Pitt game comes directly to mind). so, why can't we say that it's everyones fault and they all need to get better 
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Quote:
Also, if Blackmon puts up good numbers at the combine, I think there's a good chance the Rams take him at 2, or, if he's sitting there at 3 for the Vikings, someone tries to trade to get ahead of us (like Jacksonville).
I see about a .0001% chance that Blackmon isn't there when the Browns pick. Morris Claiborne, Matt Kalil and Robert Griffin are all much more likely to be picked in the top three.
The only wideouts to go top three in the past decade: Charles Rogers, Andre Johnson (two phenomenal prospects, both were 6'3" 220), Larry Fizgerald (I don't need to add anything, do I?), Braylon Edwards (terrible draft class, Braylon was 6'3" 210, great athlete) and Megatron (don't need to say anything).
All of those guys were better prospects than Blackmon. Hell, last year A.J. Green didn't go until No. 4 and he was almost as good of a prospect as Megatron was. Blackmon isn't in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence.
I saw someone say Blackmon was talked about with A.J. Green and Julio Jones last year. Not true. Blackmon was projected as a top-20 pick, not even top-five or even top-ten.
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I see about a .0001% chance that Blackmon isn't there when the Browns pick. Morris Claiborne, Matt Kalil and Robert Griffin are all much more likely to be picked in the top three.
I hope that you are correct. However, if StL and Minny don't find trade partners, will one of them draft a CB?
You listed the WRs drafted top3 in the past decade. I'll list the CBs:
That's the list. Springs was the last one to go top3 in the late 90s. I agree Claiborne is a better overall prospect than Blackmon, and the recent shift towards pure-passing offense may make NFL teams more willing to draft CBs high. But history isn't on that side.
And, I don't think StL or Minn takes RGIII, so we're hoping on a trade-down, which combines a ton of factors (like what happens w/ Flynn, Peyton, etc.)
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Minnesota's secondary is probably their weakest unit. Antoine Winfield will be 35 by next season and Cedric Griffin is coming off two knee injuries. They desperately need a cornerback.
Good point about the corners in the top three. My only argument is that, like you said, Claiborne is easily the superior prospect.
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Quote:
Minnesota's secondary is probably their weakest unit. Antoine Winfield will be 35 by next season and Cedric Griffin is coming off two knee injuries. They desperately need a cornerback.
Good point about the corners in the top three. My only argument is that, like you said, Claiborne is easily the superior prospect.
Plus I don't think that there are a ton of "elite" prospects in this draft. There are a ton of very, very good players, who should have long and successful careers, but there aren't a lot of those guys like a Patrick Peterson, or an AJ Green, that look like sure fire Pro Bowlers.
Of course, 3 years ago, the top of that draft looked impressive as all get out. However, Bradshaw, and McCoy (Gerald) have struggled and been hurt. Suh went from 66 tackles and 10 sacks in his rookie year to 36 tackles and 4 sacks this year. (and missed 2 games) Neither Tackle taken has been a plug 'em in and let them play 16 type. Eric Berry has been hurt. McClain appears to be coming along nicely. Spiller's been "meh" ...... and Haden's been pretty good. He's not a shut down corner, but I wonder sometimes if there are any these days with the passing rules and such. he didn't start right away, but once he broke the starting lineup he's been in there day in and day out, and has been "Steady" .....+. I bet he'd go significantly higher than 7 if there was a "redraft".
I look at the top 10 that year and a case could be made that he has been one of the best 2 picks in the top 10 so far.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This thread is about Justin Blackmon, not about Colt McCoy. If people want to discuss quarterbacks, do so in the appropriate thread. Let's try our best not to turn every single thread into a discussion on Colt McCoy.
Thank you.
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I see four elite players in this draft: Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Matt Kalil. Luck is the best QB in the past decade, Richardson is the best running back since AP, Claiborne is almost as good as Patrick Peterson and much better than Joe Haden or anyone else in the past five years, and Kalil is the best OT since Jake Long.
After those four, there is a significant drop off. Six-ten is a terrible place to be picking this year.
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Quote:
I see four elite players in this draft: Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Matt Kalil. Luck is the best QB in the past decade, Richardson is the best running back since AP, Claiborne is almost as good as Patrick Peterson and much better than Joe Haden or anyone else in the past five years, and Kalil is the best OT since Jake Long.
After those four, there is a significant drop off. Six-ten is a terrible place to be picking this year.
So what's #5?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
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I see four elite players in this draft: Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, Matt Kalil. Luck is the best QB in the past decade, Richardson is the best running back since AP, Claiborne is almost as good as Patrick Peterson and much better than Joe Haden or anyone else in the past five years, and Kalil is the best OT since Jake Long.
After those four, there is a significant drop off. Six-ten is a terrible place to be picking this year.
So what's #5?
RG3
you had a good run Hank.
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I will say this.
If we draft Richardson, initially I will be very disappointed for sure. Later on maybe not, we would have to see.
Hillis is the second most entertaining RB I've seen play for the Browns in my 30 years of following them behind Eric Metcalf. He's punishing. He has GREAT hands out of the backfield. I like it when he hurdles people. I like it when he runs them over. I like green eggs and ham sam I am.
I want to continue watching him play here in Cleveland and I want to find a player of impact at a position that is really lacking be it QB, WR, RDE or CB.
Please resign Hillis and don't spend our well earned high draft pick replacing one of my favorite players to watch.
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You can hope for it, but it won't happen. Hillis is gone.
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I just don't think that RB is a position that Heckert considers worthy of a top 5 pick in a draft.
He has also said that he feels that you can find 4-3 DE and LB in the 2nd and lower rounds.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I just don't think that RB is a position that Heckert considers worthy of a top 5 pick in a draft.
He has also said that he feels that you can find 4-3 DE and LB in the 2nd and lower rounds.
I totally agree with him. I might take the right LB in the first round but I am not on the Trent Richardson bandwagon.. he is probably the only guy we've mentioned with the #4 pick that would really upset me. Not because I think he won't be great, he probably will, but we have much bigger needs and running backs seem to come out of nowhere any more...
yebat' Putin
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I'd actually be ok with Richardson, especially if he turns out to be a durable back. Even if Hillis stays, I don't trust that he'll be healthy, and Hardesty is always an injury looking to happen. It'd be nice to have a consistent, top tier runner that teams have to worry about for the next 5-6 years.
That said, I can also understand Heckert's logic if he just doesn't value them that high. Good running backs can come out of nowhere.
I guess I'd take Blackmon ahead of Richardson, but I'd be a little worried about his temper/attitude. Being a hot tempered individual can be a good thing, but on a team that loses often and with a QB that can't get you the ball, it can turn into a problem quickly.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Blackmon
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