DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs Thread

Centers are like offensive lineman, they don't win you games, but their absence/inability can sure lose games. The Cavs' lack of a presence down low crushed them in the 2009 conference finals. They had nobody that could at least handle Dwight Howard. Therefore we doubled way too much and guys like Hedo Turkoglu and Michael Pietrus had career series'.

However when you watched that same year the Celtics who did lose their series to Orlando, the games were played much differently because Perk could handle Howard on his own. Nobody is going to bottle that guy up but if you can keep him under control that team was actually quite beatable. If you notice Boston hasn't been anywhere near the threat they were since Perk got dealt.

The Cavs desperately need a low presence, but based on the history of the draft you don't just take a guy with a high pick because he's big. You don't pass on Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant because you want that big presence. On the flip side you have to be careful you don't pass on Tim Duncan either.

Bottom line, you don't pass up guys like Lebron, Wade, Durant for big men. Talent that good you just don't pass up no matter what your needs are. If you're an NBA exec and you go anywhere but BPA with high picks, you'll be out of a job unless your name is David Kahn.

I'm sure all of us saw Irving's blocked shot from behind on the break against Charlotte...

Remind u of anyone???...lol...

And WTH is this scoring from Thompson coming from???...This kid needs to be on the floor with Irving soon...Get em' working together for the future...

We need...Here u go "Y"...

SF Barnes
C Drummond
SG Lamb

I think with Tristans 7' 2" man wingspan he has the presence of a center in the paint. I like him and Samardo down there together.

Pretty decent win against the TWolves tonight, yeah I know we are beating bad teams, but hell last year we were the easy win.

From what I have seen so far the pre draft concerns on Derick were correct, he is a tweener. He is a liability on the defensive end.

King

Very few of those tweener types ever turn out to be anything more than bench guys. One that comes to mind is David West. That guy is an animal and I love that sign for Indy.

But for every David West, there are probably 5 or 6 Drew Goodens.

However if you can get a tweener like Lamar Odom, you can be a mismatch nightmare.

And he happens to be 7 feet tall and lanky as hell.

Nights like tonight are why I won't ever get league pass.

Blue Jackets on Fox Sports Ohio and the game is blacked out on League pass.

Tristian has gotta to be one of the more interesting names on the basketball court.

Been watching the Cavs game for about 10 minutes now and have seen them get whistled for FIVE offensive fouls. Something ain't right here.

It does seem like the Cavaliers are getting called for breathing ........

Our frontcourt is plain pathetic

They need to somehow acquire a legit 5 or hope and pray that Erden turns into one. I hate Andy at the 5.

This is borderline unwatchable. Refs are stopping play every 5 seconds. 45 fouls called between the two teams and there's still 7 minutes left in the game.

I am perfectly willing to let this season play out so that we wind up in the lottery again. A sharpshooting SG or SF would fill a huge, huge need.

I am too, but I'd still prefer watching the players as opposed to the refs (who have been absolutely horrible tonight).

Yeah .... well isn't breathing a foul?

Sometimes I wonder just what scott does in the practices, we are lousy at FT, can't guard pick and roll, and can't box out.. This team is lacking in fundamentals and athleticism outside of a couple. We need some shooters and we need Scott to stop leaving the damn bench in so long...

People talk about the short training camp the Browns had ...... well the Cavs had far, far less time than the Browns did.

Byron definitely doesn't emphasize defense as much as Mike Brown (though I doubt many coaches do). The FT% is a huge issue, but its also a very fixable issue. I'm sure losing Chris Jent has something to do with that as well. As for rebounding and defending pick and rolls, we're small. Two of our bigs just aren't good, and the other is a guy who gets by on his boundless energy. Finding a true big who can clog the lane and grab boards is imperative. You don't go the distance without a big.

101-90 win tonight on the ro-ad against the setting Suns. Kyrie looked great. Had some TO's but had the crossover working really well, TT had a couple of game changing plays as well.

Back to .500!

Good call, Strife.

I'm surprised we're .500. If the playoffs were TODAY, we'd be in.


From the other thread. Spergon....

Quote:

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Thought they did about as good of a job as you can at hitting the reset button after the lebron debacle.

They could have tried to put band-aids on it, since they were coming off btb 60 win seasons, and had all these season ticket holders lined up for 2010, but they did the right thing, I think even the season ticket holders who ponied up can admit to that.

They didn't go out and sign anyone to any ridiculous money, they were able to get a few young guys who may or may not be a part of the future, but at least you can take a look, rather than watching a bunch of aged vets run around the floor.

I said on this board awhile back that I thought it'd be best to cut every single tie from the lebron era, but I honestly don't mind Gibson as long as he's on the bench and not logging huge minutes. I just thought he'd have grasped the offense by now, but he's not really a point guard, but a nice off the bench shooter.

Varejao I go back and forth on. I honestly don't think he'll be on this team going forward though.

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Yeah. I'd say people for the most part with the Cavs fan and front office alike had the right perspective on the patience it's gonna take. It was good we had a miserable year to net us that surefire piece at number one. I don't know about you, but Kyrie looks time to time to me like he could be a bit more upscale of a Tony Parker. I think when you have a solid, dynamic floor general, you're at least going to score big against teams that play bad defense (kind of how we're winning now?) But PG looks set as long as he stays healthy. Like him in Scott's offense and under his tutelage. Something about that combo itself reassures accountability to where there won't be "no .-footin' around" in the film room when someone's loafing. I know it's only been ten games, but we're a top ten offense to start the year after a lockout with the worst record last year, and a rookie PG. That's solid professionalism. It's good to have that in the building instead of it being LeNarcissist Island.

Tristan's a real X factor for me. He's got tremendous athletic ability and can be disruptive on defense. I haven't seen much of him to generate a real opinion, so what's his ceiling/floor?

As for Andy, it's been real and he's always had my support since he made Rasheed Wallace go off and get ejected when we finally beat the Pistons, but for our big window going forward we need more ammo to get another big asset that can score. He'd be great for somebody who needs a solid defensive four and is making a run. But we need to strike while the iron is hot and I hope it's at the deadline this year. We need to use the time right now to scour and turn over the soil for talent to at least get good supplementary and role guys. At least get some average rotational pieces or just one mid-tier starter. At the same time, the more picks/assets they stockpile and can concentrate into another big piece via the draft and we can find our window get a lot bigger and be another addition away from a big three. Hopefully that's some magic they work and we can get.

I kind of understand what people see when they say "Trade Varejao" ....... but at the same time, I don't.

Andy is developing into a pretty reliable 10/10 type of player. He is signed for the next 4 years or so IIRC. He's not expensive. He's only 29. He is the ultimate team player, and does whatever is asked of him.

He is not the ideal size for a Center. However, he's not a massive liability on the defensive end. 10 PPG isn't huge for a Center in the NBA ..... but the average Center in the NBA right now probably puts in something like 14 PPG. There just aren't a ton of great big men playing Center right now. I think that we should concentrate on adding a real scorer at SF and SG ..... and then run teams out of the building with Andy at the 5.

I also worry about what shape a trade involving Andy would take. I certainly don't want to see the Cavaliers have to take back bad players/contracts after having done such a great job of getting rid of them all. The only bad contract we have left is Jamison, and he's off the books next year.

I also wonder just who we would get to replace Andy if we dumped him for some reason. Erden certainly isn't some great option at much of anything except fouling his opponent. He's played 10 minutes this season and has 5 PF. Last year he has something like 100 PF in 500 minutes played. That's not only ineffective ..... it gets you fouled out in about half an hour or so. Hollis was somewhat helpful as a backup last year ... but certainly, as we saw, not someone we want to rely upon on a nightly basis to give us much at all from the Center position.

One other thing to consider is this: what would we get back for Andy? What if we get a 1st rounder from a contender? We already have a bunch of those floating around in future land. I don't see another pick at the bottom of the 1st round as a trade of equal value, especially if you have to balance the contracts somehow.

Then I also look at what happens if we trade Andy as far as opening up a 3rd gushing wound on the team. Right now we have a desperate need at SG and SF both. If we trade Andy, then we open that 3rd desperate need. I would rather see us try to fill the SF and SG holes in this coming draft, and go into next season with the 4 first and second year players, and with Andy at the 5. I would try to hang on to Andy for the time being. I think that he is a valuable piece, and I don't want to have to add junk to the team just to trade away a good, solid player.

if we don't get good value for Andy, then he'll remain a Cav. simple as that.

we'd have to get a good (not great) 2nd-4th year player + 1st round pick from a contender. as far as balancing contracts, Andy makes under $10mil/year so that should be easy (and we hopefully would demand expiring except for the young piece).

Just Clicking No Logo


I dont understand why people always want to trade our assets away, and Andy is an asset. You just dont get a big that is that active very often,yeah hes not Shaq but he fits what we are trying to do offensively. He's fairly young,he has a friendly contract,and he's a strong team mate.

I would move Jamison,just because he is up there in years,and in the last year of a big contract but I wouldnt mind keeping Antawn around. He has actually been great with these youbng guys.

I am a little mixed on Sessions, he is a strength coming off the bench at PG,but it will be interesting to see how he reacts to his minutes falling off as Kyrie gets better and better.


KING

AV is 29 and will be in his mid-30s by the time that we are a good team again. The thought is to get young pieces to replace him that could also be good when we need them.

players like him generally fall off pretty quickly with age.

I would disagree that we are 5 years away from being good again, assuming you consider 34 to be "mid-30s". and while I agree with a youth movement, there is something be said for some veteran leadership on the team.. having a guy that knows what it feels like to win 60+ games, a guy that knows what it feels like to go deep into the playoffs, a guy that can help the younger guys as they mature.. and having a guy that can do that AND contribute on the court is just a plus to have... so if you can get real good value for him, I wouldn't be opposed to it but to get rid of him just to clear a roster spot or clear cap space for some potential guy that may or may not come about just seems silly to me.

no. you only trade him if you get value as i've mentioned several times. you clear Jamison/Parker to free up roster space and minutes on the court, not Andy.

also, long-term, I don't see Andy and TT working together on the court real well. but, you do have to try it out to be sure (as sometimes odd pairings end up working out).

I think the Cavs are 4 years away (including this year) from being a real good team. that's 3 drafts. we have our PG, 1 big (I think you need at least 3 real good bigs), but no wing players or centers. if we keep Andy, then we have 2 bigs (but again, not sure they can play together so we might need 4 bigs to make things work).

trading Andy for a 1st and a promsing young player (probably a wing) could do wonders to speed up the process or make it more likely we get there.

If we're writing a non-Tebow related sports movie...

Cavs getting the #8 an beating Miami in 6 (in Cle) is the only correct finish right?

#reasonswhyIdon'tbelieveinkarma

name me a Cleveland sports movie that ends well?

The Express - obviously not a happy ending
Major League - don't even get to WS
Major League 2 - don't win the WS

Heck, a Paul Brown movie would probably end with him losing a power struggle to Art Modell and being exiled to Cincinatti.

Tommy Boy saves Sandusky, OH though...

I can't see trading Sessions without having a backup PG to run the 2nd team or be a spot starter if Kyrie gets dinged. Gibson isn't that guy.

I don't think we're 5 years away from being good, but we're definitely 3-4 years away from being a legit contender, and that's assuming that our FO does everything right.

Thought this was interesting

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...y01&y6=2010