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It's true that DTs still need to maintain their "integrity" ...... but the 3-4 NT certainly has a smaller area of responsibility than a 4-3 DT. The NT usually takes up a couple of blockers and holds his ground. His role is basically one of denying ground to the opposition. This isn't the normal role of a DT. Doesn't a DT typically have a "gap" (or 2) that he is responsible for? Doesn't this require more mobility than just holding ground as a NT?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes, a prototype DT is more mobile than a prototype NT.
I wasn't trying to put you down. It just kinda bugged me because I know what is asked of tackles in every defense, including 50 defenses, which we actually played a lot of this year.
You also have to remember that there are guys who have played both, including the Bengals own Sam Adams, who will never be called mobile. *L*
Like I said earlier, there are differences, but they are more subtle than the media and most fans think they are. And I'm not saying that Smith won't be a good NT, because I don't remember seeing him play. I just have some concerns when I read the scouting report, where he was on the depth chart, and how porous the Bengal's run defense was. But please understand, just because I have concerns does not mean I am saying he sucks. I just don't know.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I just don't know.
If any of us knew 100% about 100% of players ..... we'd be making millions as the most sought after GMs ever right now. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This isn't really that hard guys ... according to his scouting report (if its true) hes an UPGRADE for when TW comes out and at least has SOME OF THE SKILL SET u want in a 3-4 NT ..
it doesnt sound like hes ever going to be anything more than a SPACE EATER on running downs ... he won't penetrate or move up and down the line and make plays .. but he will EAT UP SPACE .. witch is a HUGE UPGRADE over Jason Fisk from two years ago .. and an UPGRADE over anything we had last year when we took Ted out on RUNNING DOWNS ..
Avg. is prolly his upside ... with being abv. avg at EATING BLOCKERS up and freeing up the LBer's to make plays being his strength ..
IT IS WHAT IT IS ... and if his scouting reports are true .. THATS WHAT IT IS .. I have no clue why u guys are spending so much time dissecting everything about him and trying to find fault or make him better than he is .. Its really not that hard guys ..
I have to question what your expectations are fellas .. (including u vers) .. there is only so much to choose from and we need alot of help .. it seems like u expect HUGE UPGRADES and abv. avg players at every position . well its not going to happen ..
this guys biggest strength is EATING UP SPACE AND BLOCKERS .. and not much else .. juÉt so happens that helps us when Ted is hurt or tired next year and is a START for when Ted is gone .. hes an UPGRADE in run situations ..
if we can get a Hampton or Ngata type in the next 2 or 3 years I'm sure Opie will look long and hard at it .. but for now hes by far a MUCH BETTER STOP GAP than what Fisk was and better than anything on runing downs we had not named after a mountain last year ..
u guys can spend hours and hours dissecting it and looking for things that are and arent there .. IT IS WHAT IT IS .. an INCRIMENTAL UPGRADE at a spot we need help at ..
Final answer?? HOPEFULLY NOT .. but a better stop gap than we've had up till now ... he IMPROVES THIS FOOTBALL TEAM in a smal;l incriment in stopping the run ...
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Vers,
I'm taking the 50 now...I didn't even know that was an option. 20 more ounces is even better.
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Diam, I don't think anyone is finding this NT/DT thing hard to figure out. It's simply a discussion on the NT and the fact that it's not as cut and dried as some people may see it...doesn't make them right or wrong. I'm not defending Vers or YTown here, but I think there was some pretty darned good discussion on this thread about the NT/DT thing. I think everyone in this thread is either pleased with the signing or, at a minimum, willing to admit that it just might be a good signing. I don't remember any post being anti-Smith or anti-how-to-build-a-team...until yours that is. 
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I have to question what your expectations are fellas .. (including u vers) .. there is only so much to choose from and we need alot of help .. it seems like u expect HUGE UPGRADES and abv. avg players at every position . well its not going to happen ..
LOL......actually, they are not very high. Sheesh, you guys are so sensitive. All I said was that I have some concerns as to how much this guy will help. BFD.
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IT IS WHAT IT IS ... and if his scouting reports are true .. THATS WHAT IT IS .
Sorry bro, but I don't trust scouting reports. I learned a long time ago that the best thing to do in regards to scouting reports is to look at the guy's negatives. And truthfully, I trust my own eyes over a scouting report. And I don't remember this guy, which tells me something right there. The guy slipping to 4th on the depth chart is another concern. Their run D sucks.
But again......I ain't saying he sucks. I don't know. I was simply cautioning those who get so excited over every freaking player the Browns sign.
You know how it works......they get excited and start talking about how much we have improved, they talk about how the other teams in our division are really hurting, get pissed when the media picks us to finish last, proclaim we will show the world, then bitch, moan, and start Fire [insert coach's name here] in September. 
Come on, you know it's true, you old goat.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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if we can get a Hampton or Ngata type in the next 2 or 3 years I'm sure Opie will look long and hard at it .. but for now hes by far a MUCH BETTER STOP GAP than what Fisk was and better than anything on runing downs we had not named after a mountain last year.
Agreed, we need help at NT right now but it makes no sense, (given our other needs at OT, OG, DE & CB,) to take one high in this years draft. Smith has to be better than any second day pick, and is probably better than J'vonne Parker is right now... Not to say he can't develop, he certainly has the size. Baba is a little small for our needs at NT. When we get some of these other needs settled it makes perfect sense to take a monster NT in high the draft in a couple of years... But maybe we won't have to. Maybe Smith pays dividends... if not, fortunately for us, there is a Mt. Parker.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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IT IS WHAT IT IS ... and if his scouting reports are true .. THATS WHAT IT IS .. I have no clue why u guys are spending so much time dissecting everything about him and trying to find fault or make him better than he is .. Its really not that hard guys ..
Wasn't hard for me to see when I researched him..he fits a 34 NT ..what we require from a DT is different from what the Bungals need in him.
Behind Ted everyone that has played gets BLOWN BACKWARD..
This kid doesn't..thats what matters..
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J/C into the convo I think something we need to keep in mind, and I'm not sure where I heard this, I'll search for a link, but I heard that the Cinci coaches were falling out of favor with him in 2006. He fell out of favor and fell out of the lineup so to speak. He's no longer a priority and maybe they want him to move on, that's why they don't bother on resigning him. He did well for their depth and that's it. Here's the tidbit from ESPN.com: "Smith's best season came in 2005, when he compiled 38 tackles in 13 games, and logged five starts. He fell out of favor with Bengals' coaches late in 2006, and did not play in the final three games of the campaign, but several teams looking to add a young lineman with promise considered him a potential steal. Because of the depth they have accumulated at tackle, and the fact they already have some emerging young players at the position, the Bengals may elect to not match the offer sheet." Source
HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM! GO BROWNS!!
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He fell out of favor with Bengals' coaches late in 2006, and did not play in the final three games of the campaign
It does concern me that a team with such a porous run defense would bench anyone. Has anyone on the Bengals board provided any more info on how exactly he fell out of favor? Missing meetings? Bad conditioning? Slept with a coach's wife?
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I do have to say it must be REALLY HARD to fall out of favor with the Bengals coaches.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I do have to say it must be REALLY HARD to fall out of favor with the Bengals coaches.
Not if you didn't show and was suppose to be driving the getaway car... 
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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You know how it works......they get excited and start talking about how much we have improved, they talk about how the other teams in our division are really hurting, get pissed when the media picks us to finish last, proclaim we will show the world, then bitch, moan, and start Fire [insert coach's name here] in September.
Yep, that's pretty much it. God, I hope this isn't another one of those years. Please??? 
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For what it's worth----I actually think Savage is having a pretty good off-season. The draft will be the key.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I do have to say it must be REALLY HARD to fall out of favor with the Bengals coaches.
Not if you didn't show and was suppose to be driving the getaway car...
nordawg
LOL
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein" ~Joe Theismann~
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All I said was that I have some concerns as to how much this guy will help. BFD.
why the concern bro?? how can he not be an upgrade??? when we took Ted out on RUNNING DOWNS who did we have that wasnt pushed all over the place???? this guy won't be ... its pretty SIMPLE TO ME ..
i don't see how this move isnt considered an upgrade ... it BAFFLES ME ... especially coming from U ... U know football (unfortunatly one of the few on the board that really knows the game ... unfortunate in the sense i wish there was more) yet u wanna try and question this move when its CLEARLY AN UPGRADE on run downs ...
and this will more than likley be Teds last year as hes getting to old and needs to many plays off and gets dinged alot .. so hes a START at replacing Ted in 08 and a MUCH BETTER FILL IN this year ...
i dont get the concern bro .. if u take it for what its worth ...
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Sorry bro, but I don't trust scouting reports.
Me neither ... hence why i said IF there correct ... and although I dotn' believe scouting reports ... this ones pretty short and sweet and not COMPLIMENTARY AT ALL .. its pretty easy to believe .. all is says is ..
hes BIG/STRONG and wont be moved .... not hard for the DUMBEST OF SCOUTS to figure that one out ... *L* ..
and thats his positives .. *LOL* ..
how do u doubt that??? hell just the fact hes 325 makes him much harder to move tehn the lightweights we brought in last year ..
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And truthfully, I trust my own eyes over a scouting report. And I don't remember this guy, which tells me something right there.
U see ... this is where your OVER ANALYZING .... u dont' remember him so he can't be good???? well gee vers .. could this factor in ..
1. he didnt play much
2. he will fill a different role for us than he would have in cinci's 3-4 .. and in this DIFFERENT ROLE his size and the fact he eats up space and doesnt get pushed back is much more important in our 3-4 than it is in their 4-3 .. (and yes i read the rest of the thread and agree with u that the roles arent' as different as some want to make them out to be .. but Vers .. theirs no DENYING that in a 3-4 on RUNNING DOWNS if u have a NT that can EAT UP BLOCKERS/NOT GET PUSHED BACK AND EAT UP SPACE that is a HUGE ADVANTAGE from the get go ... ....
hes a MUCH BETTER FIT for us on running downs ...
what did i say above that isnt true??
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Their run D sucks.
IRRELIVENT .... for many reasons .. and u know it .. thats horse crap even if we played the same system ... but going from DT in a 4 - 3 to a NT in a 3 - 4 rally makes it NONSENSE ...
the SKILL SETS are completely different ... and theres a reason for that ..
and his skill set (as limited as it is) is a much better fit for playing NT than DT ... is this not true???
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I was simply cautioning those who get so excited over every freaking player the Browns sign.
You know how it works......they get excited and start talking about how much we have improved, they talk about how the other teams in our division are really hurting, get pissed when the media picks us to finish last, proclaim we will show the world, then bitch, moan, and start Fire [insert coach's name here] in September.
Come on, you know it's true, you old goat.
u know what else is true bro ....
no matter how much REALISM U and I and Toad and a few others bring .. we can't STEM THE TIDE ... theres way more of the fantasy land guys than there is us ... and thats OK ... HOPE IS GOOD .. well until the season starts anyhow ..
see the definition of insanity .... then tell me were not wasting our time trying to temper expactations ... 
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why the concern bro?? how can he not be an upgrade??? when we took Ted out on RUNNING DOWNS who did we have that wasnt pushed all over the place???? this guy won't be ... its pretty SIMPLE TO ME ..
The concerns are he lost playing time and apparently didn't even play in the last few games because he fell out of favor w/the coaching staff. I am wondering why?
We should get something straight. I ain't bad-mouthing the move. Like I said, I don't know enough about him to bad-mouth him. I just wonder how much of an upgrade he will be.
I prefer drafting a NT over bringing in a FA who hasn't done squat. Take a look at the NTs around the NFL. Most were drafted later in the draft...4th round on. I'd rather make the investment there and save money. I realize that I am about the only one on here who doesn't believe in spending big dollars on free agents. I will say that I liked both the Steinbach and Lewis moves, though.
One more thing..........I ain't going to be pissed if we bring him in. You probably remember that I hated the Fisk signing a couple of years ago. I recall you didn't like it much either. I don't have a strong position on this one. Just talkin' football. It's what I like to do.
Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if he'll be an upgrade or not. I would prefer we address the position in the draft, but I'm not asking for you to agree w/me on that. Who knows, perhaps this dude will really help our run D.
Are you holding your breath?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I hate being a [censored], but that is simply not true. You guys are exaggerating the difference in how to play tackle in 30 defenses and 40 defenses. There are differences, but it is not as drastic as you are saying it is.
I never ask you to agree w/me on personnel decisions, but I do know my Xs and Os.
I am sure you do, but don't exaggerate the amount of similarities..
NT don't get much push, don't stack up many tackles, and get few sacks.
Is it fair to say the guys skill set wasn't suited to the type of D the Bengals play?
Is it fair to say that a guy with poor movement might not be very good in a 4-3 D while that same player might be good in a 3-4 on the nose?
I never got into the talk about how good the guy will be...the guy is an option...and one who right now looks like he might be a decent option.....
Just a comment in general....scouting reports can be wrong, but you have to trust them...and teams do...if they didn't, why have scouts at all?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Other than this, I'll let the rest slide: Quote:
Just a comment in general....scouting reports can be wrong, but you have to trust them...and teams do...if they didn't, why have scouts at all?
I think there could be big differences between professional scouting systems and those prepared by media types.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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I prefer drafting a NT over bringing in a FA w
Are you thinking someone like DeMarcus Tyler?
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Take a look at the NTs around the NFL. Most were drafted later in the draft...4th round on.
That's not true...MOST are 1st rounders...
Hampton
Ngata
Wilfork
Williams (2nd Supp)
The big guns drafted early are great all around Tackles...The later round guys are that one dimensional type tackle I constantly refer to as 3-4 NT's...The guys that do nuttin' but take up space...
They can be had later but u just won't get a studola...Which is fine...Just give me the run stuffing type tackle...That's all u need at the Nose...
Go Browns!!!
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I think there could be big differences between professional scouting systems and those prepared by media types.
No question. Some of those guys are just message board members who write for some publication.
That said...I think most...in the mainstream anyway... get their information from a source somewhat credible. I don't think they just sit down and write total fiction.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The big guns drafted early are great all around Tackles...The later round guys are that one dimensional type tackle I constantly refer to as 3-4 NT's...The guys that do nuttin' but take up space...
Uhmmm....I was referring to the one-dimensional types. *L* Isn't that what Smith is? I simply prefer upgrading through the draft over FA. And that type of player can be had in the 4th round or even later.
Diesel: I was not referring to any one player. I haven't followed the collegiate game as closely as I used to. I'm kinda out of the loop now. Do you have any information on that guy? Or, any others who are projected to go on the second day? If so, please post their negatives in addition to their positives. Oh.....let me add that in no way I am calling you out. People seem to think I am when I ask them questions. I simply interested in any information you might have.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
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Oh I dinna know.. Not all these guys are hacks. I see reports written for various mags, media outlets and papers that are written by guys that were scouts and have moved on to consulting, working for media outlets and free lancing and such.. guys like Gil Brandt, Ron Wolf and Pat Kirwan come to mind.
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That is what I am saying in my point. I don't think most of the media is full of crap....some are, but most tend to do some work in putting together their thoughts.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Diesel: I was not referring to any one player. I haven't followed the collegiate game as closely as I used to. I'm kinda out of the loop now. Do you have any information on that guy? Or, any others who are projected to go on the second day?
Very very unlikely Tank Tyler is a Day 2 guy. He's the # 1 NT in the draft and probably in the top 5 DTs. There is a guy from Utah (Paul Soliai) who is being touted as the best Day 2 NT. I don't know about that though. Another Utah guy (Fifita) was getting the same hype last year at this time and he went undrafted.
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Yeah, everyone wanted Fifita it seemed like. That was theri 5th round draft pick. wonder how he's doing now, lol. Oshinow was the other big guy; he's doing really well too. lol. i guess we all were wrong. I wanted Oshinow personally.
Personally i'd loved to drop to say 7 and draft Alan Branch. The guy seems to have a lot of talent. He probably could be a NT. He'd def be a good runstopping DE for us whom could generate a little pass rusher. That honestly is the best way to help our team over Peterson or Joe Thomas. We're still relying on Ted Washington whom is pushing 40 or turning 40. This Smith guy better be good enough if Big Ted goes down, cause whether he's old and slow or what, he's 6'7 Mid-to-High 300 Pound range. That's just a big guy to replace.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Seems like a good signing. Looks like he can really be helpful when Ted Washington is not out. He can take up a lot of space and stop the RB from running up the gut. Plus, he adds good depth for the defense
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Not to hijack the thread vers...But tank is a good athlete....tends to get out of shape easily...
And I think the saints and titans may be looking at him.........
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If Cincy does not match the offer, will a new thread be started to let us know?
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probably at least 3 of them 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You'll need....
1. For the signing
2. When he's taking over he NT position.
3. For how much better he is now than when in Cinni.
4. just incase i forgot 1
nordawg
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Maybe one for the contract amount or a link to a Browns' home page article.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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the only real questions are How many of those will have their titles in all caps? and How many exclamation points will be used?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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the only real questions are How many of those will have their titles in all caps? and How many exclamation points will be used?
SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT?!?!?!?!??!?!
<><
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
that's the spirit !!!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Just doing my part of the board
<><
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Quote:
the only real questions are How many of those will have their titles in all caps? and How many exclamation points will be used?
Or say the same thing over and over about 20 times.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Shaun Smith to Offer
Sheet!!!
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