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I think what needs to be reasoned is not really complicated..we have no one viable after Ted to come in and be effective..we have no one STRONG enough to play NT.. Vers wants to know why this kid fell out of favor..I don't know but I'm sure the Cincy board would shed some light. Or one person in paticular..Steinbach..he's practiced aginst Smith..doesn't it seem certain Opie questioned him about Smith?  I scanned the Bungals board..some want to keep him..some feel he's out of place in the 43 ..some don't don't want to match the offer..they feel since he didn't beat out Adams he isn't worth it.. Take it for what it's worth. Next it fills a viable need going into the draft giving Phil a cushion to serch for the type of NT Rac really wants..and Rac should know the type of guy he wants brought in.. They have film on the guy so apparantly someone saw something they liked in Smith.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/12/07 09:24 AM.
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Its a misconception that these parts that the Bengals run defense is the among the worst in the AFC and NFL in general. Actually thats inaccurate.
The Bengals run defense gave up a average of 116 yards a game last year and 15 TDS on the ground.They were smack in the middle of the run defense rankings.
Consider the fact that the Bengals were missing 2 starting LB's most of the year and Brian Simmons missing 7 games,thats not bad..
Every week it was a different set of LB's starting.
when the Bengals defense was healthy which amounted to 1 game,Larry Johnson was held to under 80 yards.
Now back to Shaun Smith..what no one has brought up is the real reason the Bengals are letting him walk....2 words..Domenta Peko.
He was a mid RD pick from MSU who really came on strong in 2006.He put up better numbers than 1st RD picks like Broderick Bunkley
He's a better penetrator than Smith is and moves better laterally.Real strong in the upper body.
Domenta is pure 4-3 DT. Smith is a more pure 3-4 DT.....
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"For what it's worth----I actually think Savage is having a pretty good off-season. The draft will be the key."
Wow...I know you still hate me...but my beef with you was your unrealistic acceptance of Savage actually knowing what he was doing and we had direction - not HATE.
So my opinion of you changed tremendously from that statement.
There's hope in you yet...lol 
Back to the thread.
Lewis' D back in 2000 had both DTs as two gappers...not one NT and one attack DT like most 4-3 D's are.
Butt...the Bengals have not been able to duplicate that D - The discipline on that team to play 2 gap just isn't there. And its not always indicitive of the DTs.
Lewis ain't running the D.
The LBs aren't disciplined.
The LBs were injured or suspended for consistancy.
The guy is not a penetrating 3 technique DE that we would want. He's a NT - we don't want penetration we want an immovable object who can play a solid 2 gap.
He's an upgrade on Kelley who was showing promise last season.
Ted W is in his last season and probably will play a little less this year...we need that upgrade.
Smith fills a big void and need.
As somebody mentioned.
If somewhere in the draft an opportunity to invest in a stud early or prospect later shows good value...Of course Savage will pull the trigger. But it won't be out of "URGENT NEED"
We are not as Urgent as people think - I think there is more to our move last year with Orien Harris than meets the eye...I believe he will be a big Upgrade on Alvin.
And don't underestimate J'vonne Parker. - I know it was one half but he looked Good late in the season before going on the IR. He'll be an upgrade on Eason.
Its all about upgrades.
2 mil per year is high...sort of but we got the Cap Window to do it and the need is great. This kid isn't a 2-3 year developmental draft pick...we still might make that move. This kid is a kid who is "READY" and gives us replacement with longer life than TW while we find-draft-develope that stud...and who knows he might be just fine for 2 downs. If we can bring more pressure from the B gaps DE and C gaps when teams pass on 1st n 2nd down We can get away with a one dimensional NT.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
"For what it's worth----I actually think Savage is having a pretty good off-season. The draft will be the key."
Wow...I know you still hate me...but my beef with you was your unrealistic acceptance of Savage actually knowing what he was doing and we had direction - not HATE.
So my opinion of you changed tremendously from that statement.
There's hope in you yet...lol
Back to the thread.
Lewis' D back in 2000 had both DTs as two gappers...not one NT and one attack DT like most 4-3 D's are.
Butt...the Bengals have not been able to duplicate that D - The discipline on that team to play 2 gap just isn't there. And its not always indicitive of the DTs.
Lewis ain't running the D.
The LBs aren't disciplined.
The LBs were injured or suspended for consistancy.
The guy is not a penetrating 3 technique DE that we would want. He's a NT - we don't want penetration we want an immovable object who can play a solid 2 gap.
He's an upgrade on Kelley who was showing promise last season.
Ted W is in his last season and probably will play a little less this year...we need that upgrade.
Smith fills a big void and need.
As somebody mentioned.
If somewhere in the draft an opportunity to invest in a stud early or prospect later shows good value...Of course Savage will pull the trigger. But it won't be out of "URGENT NEED"
We are not as Urgent as people think - I think there is more to our move last year with Orien Harris than meets the eye...I believe he will be a big Upgrade on Alvin.
And don't underestimate J'vonne Parker. - I know it was one half but he looked Good late in the season before going on the IR. He'll be an upgrade on Eason.
Its all about upgrades.
2 mil per year is high...sort of but we got the Cap Window to do it and the need is great. This kid isn't a 2-3 year developmental draft pick...we still might make that move. This kid is a kid who is "READY" and gives us replacement with longer life than TW while we find-draft-develope that stud...and who knows he might be just fine for 2 downs. If we can bring more pressure from the B gaps DE and C gaps when teams pass on 1st n 2nd down We can get away with a one dimensional NT.
JMHO
Even if there's more than what meets the eye to the Orien Harris thing, it still makes me nervous that the guy was a Steelers practice squad player.
Parker and Kelley don't inspire much confidence in me either.
I'd like to see one more FA DL signing and then investment in day one of the draft. At this point I'm more worried about our D-line than our O-line. I believe our D-line is what's holding back our D from being somewhat solid.
I think we are urgent with the DL, and we should be just as urgent with the DL as we are the OL. The problem is there are no Steinbach's on D in this market. The closest thing is Robaire Smith and he doesn't impress me THAT much, but anything but McKinley.
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"Even if there's more than what meets the eye to the Orien Harris thing, it still makes me nervous that the guy was a Steelers practice squad player."
 True - the optimism has the same assurance of "FACT" as the negatism. But being on the Steeler practice squad on a team that had Depth at the position and is notorious for hiding developmental players and then as their accomplished DEs hit the FA market they come back bigger and better.
Harris was a talent Steal in the 4th round. He had Character "Immaturity issues" which dropped him to the 4th...which spells risk...Spending most the season on the Practice Squad took a lot of the Risk out of the kid. The Upside is there. The talent is there. the negative of being a talent on a Practice squad is lessoned via the WHO's practice Squad he was on and the history of depth that team has. We can't look at it as the same as our practice Squad.
In no way am I saying for us not to invest in the DL in the 07 draft. Actually I've gone on record to deem as this draft to be strong and deep in 3-4 DL talent and in reviewing Savage's drafts he usually invests in the strength of each class. I see DL as a definate investment in this draft.
My point of view is the "URGENCY" is not as great as some will portray.
This team still needs drafted Talent all over...DL included!
But now we will pick the DLman out there with the greatest Value of Talent...not because of some "URGENT NEED" more than the other of DE or NT.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Even if there's more than what meets the eye to the Orien Harris thing, it still makes me nervous that the guy was a Steelers practice squad player.
Why would that make u nervous???
If there's one team out there playing a 3-4 defense that KNOWS about Ends and LB's...It's the Stillers in the Cowher era...There's not another team in the NFL who I would rather snag a young DE in a 3-4 or LB from...During Cowhers era...
Speaking of Cowher...lol...IF he ended up here in 2008...He would have ALOT of his 3-4 D already in place...hmmmm....
This dude from Cincy is a NT upgrade...
We're still in the mix for Robaire Smith...$$$ is coming down...Upgrade...
Harris???...Even as a rotation playa...New Blood...
Go Browns!!!
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Lil' Harris snippet after the draft...
The following year, he teamed with Wilfork to give the Hurricanes one of the top defensive tackle units in the country.
But as those other players left for the NFL, more and more pressure was put on Harris to produce big plays. And getting to the quarterback just isn’t his forte, though he did register 54 QB pressures at Miami.
Harris is more of a disruptive force than he is a pass rusher.
“In our scheme we aren’t looking for pass rushers,†said Steelers’ defensive line coach John Mitchell. “He is a guy that can push the pocket, he has done a great job there. We are looking for guys like him who we can play the inside run games and stunts but no, he is not a big pass rusher and we didn’t take him as a pass rusher. We took him because he's a good athlete, who can stay on his feet, who can run, has quickness and can get to the ball carrier.â€
That Harris can do. And he’s more than happy to move outside in the 3-4 after being inside throughout his career as a 4-3 tackle at Miami.
“It’s a lot of the same responsibilities, but there are some differences,†Harris said. “I’m learning more and more every day. Just watching the other guys here, the veterans, helps.â€
Much like he did at Miami, Harris isn’t expected to come in and start right away. The Steelers have veterans Aaron Smith, Brett Keisel, Travis Kirshke and Rodney Bailey working ahead of Harris right now.
I'd bet Mr Cowher was more than a lil' PO'd when we signed him to our active roster...hehehe...
Bears watching for sure...
Go Browns!!!
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Only guys who run a 34 or two-gap would value that kind of DT..that is why Phil is looking at Smith..to be a disruptive force..blow up the LOS..or fall on a couple of guards..lol
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only a few more days to go... lol
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
only a few more days to go... lol
yea.. i dont think they want the guy... hope he helps the Browns out.. He is a very big guy.. and seeing that there are not that many DT's out there in the draft this year.. He's an okay pickup.. We just need his size..
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Quote:
Only guys who run a 34 or two-gap would value that kind of DT..that is why Phil is looking at Smith..to be a disruptive force..blow up the LOS..or fall on a couple of guards..lol
best thing about it.. he's still young.. he has 4 years experience... I think he's 26..
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Look at our roster and see how many DL we have..most of these guys have got to go..they aren't worth anything..thats why we need more guys who fit the 34...
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Quote:
only a few more days to go... lol
I'm not counting my chickens just yet.
If I were the GM and a division rival was going after one of my RFA's, even if I did not want to pay to keep the guy, I would wait until the last minute just to hog tie there progress even if just by a tiny bit.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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 Position: DT Height: 6-2 Weight: 325 Born: 08/19/1981 College: South Carolina NFL Experience: 4 Tomorrow is deadline for Bengals to match our offer. Although he only played as backup behind Sam Adams; Shaun has recorded a total 31 tackles and 15 assists in his 3 playing years with Cinci. I like his size as a potential successor to Ted, he sort of looks like Ted's son, also. JMHO
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Well Bungal fan isn't very high on him. They are concerned about depth, but they don't seem too concerned about losing him. I say they will not match our offer.
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About 24 hours left before this thing gets decided. Personally, I don't see Cincy's big need for this guy, but the point made of Cincy not wanting to let him go to a division rival who may benefit from him a lot more is certainly valid.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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I hope they don't match, he sounds like a good replacement.
Go Irish!
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We need another big guy for NT, this guy hopefully is it. I still hope Big Ted stays on for one more year, he was decent, and IMO can be alot more productive with someone to rotate in with him. He didnt have much in the tank last year, but we didnt have much behind him...which I feel let him get overused.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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My apologies to the referees and board for starting a new thread. I forgot this thread was around. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa.Quote:
Well Bungal fan isn't very high on him. They are concerned about depth, but they don't seem too concerned about losing him. I say they will not match our offer.
Cinci fans are looking at SS as a DT only, and we're from what I've read are interested in SS as a NT. So, I would take the Bengal fans reaction to this transaction with a grain of salt as they say. JMHO
Last edited by stabber53; 03/15/07 12:50 PM.
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so when does this take into effect? how much longer?
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12:00 AM Friday has passed. Do you mean 12:00 AM Saturday?
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11:59:59.99999999999999999999999 P.M. Friday 
"They had it before you, They had it during you, They"ll have it after you're gone."
Al McGuire on Kentucky basketball tradition.
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Bengals | Not expected to match offer on Smith Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:08:54 -0700 Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports the Cincinnati Bengals are not likely to match the Cleveland Browns $8 million plus offer sheet on backup free-agent DL Shaun Smith (Bengals). KFFL Looks like he is ours.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Bengals | Team will not match Smith offer sheet
Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:45:23 -0700
The Cincinnati Bengals announced Friday, March 16, they have declined to match the offer made by the Cleveland Browns to restricted free agent DT Shaun Smith.
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Bengals | Team will not match Smith offer sheet Fri, 16 Mar 2007 08:45:23 -0700 The Cincinnati Bengals announced Friday, March 16, they have declined to match the offer made by the Cleveland Browns to restricted free agent DT Shaun Smith KFFL
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yebat' Putin
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Hooray.... I think! Smith & Smith better bring it on D.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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yahooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! addition by subtraction within the division is a great thing indeed 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
yahooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! addition by subtraction within the division is a great thing indeed
Awesome. It's a much larger addition to our team than it is a meaningful subtraction from the Bengals.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Good news
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Does anybody REALLY know anything about this guy? It seems there are a lot of people exited about this pick up, but I bet most of the people don't know anything about the guy. I don't know a damned thing about him myself.
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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Don't get too excited, they didn't match for a reason...he was a waiver pick up.....here is some info Quote:
Third-year pro played in D-line rotation in 13 games ... Had 14 tackles (7 solo) and 1 pass defensed ... Due to become a restricted free agent on 3-2-07.
2006 RECAP: Played in Games 1-13 ... Inactive for Games 14-16 ... Had season-best 4 tackles Oct. 1 vs. New England ... Had 3 tackles Oct. 29 vs. Atlanta ... Had 2 tackles Nov. 5 at Baltimore ... Had 2 tackles Nov. 19 at New Orleans ... On Nov. 30 vs. Baltimore, penetrated Ravens backfield on third-and-one in second quarter, allowing Dexter Jackson to make tackle on Jamal Lewis and force punt ... Had 1 pass defensed Dec. 10 vs. Oakland.
PREVIOUS SEASONS: 2005 - Saw action in 13 regular-season games with five starts, and also played in Wild Card playoff vs. Pittsburgh … Started in place of injured LDT Bryan Robinson in Games 11-13 and 15-16 … Recorded his first two tackles of the season Sept. 25 at Chicago … Had four tackles Oct. 2 vs. Houston … Had five tackles in starts Nov. 27 vs. Baltimore and in pivotal win Dec. 4 at Pittsburgh … Had three tackles in division-clinching win Dec. 18 at Detroit … Recorded season-best six tackles Dec. 24 vs. Buffalo … Had five tackles Jan. 1 at Kansas City … Had one tackle in playoff 1-8-06 vs. Pittsburgh … On inactive list for Games 7, 8, and 10.
2004 - Opened training camp with Dallas … Played in Cowboys preseason opener at Houston (two tackles), but did not play preseason Games 2 and 3 … Waived by Dallas on Aug. 31 and acquired Sept. 1 by Arizona on waivers … Played for Arizona (no stats) in Sept. 2 preseason finale at Denver, and waived by Arizona on Sept. 6 … Signed to New Orleans practice squad Sept. 7, and signed Sept. 18 to Saints 53-player roster … Played for New Orleans in Games 2-4 and 7-8, with a start in Game 3, Sept. 26 at St. Louis … Inactive for Games 5-6 and 9-11 for New Orleans, and was waived Nov. 30 … Acquired by Bengals on waivers on Dec. 1 … Inactive for Bengals in Games 12-13, and played in Games 14-16 … Started at RDT in season finale, Jan. 2 at Philadelphia, in place of injured Langston Moore … Had 16 tackles for New Orleans and six tackles with Bengals … Had two tackles for New Orleans in first NFL start, Sept. 26 at St. Louis.
2003 - Signed May 1 with Dallas as rookie free agent ... Had four tackles for Cowboys during preseason ... Waived in final roster cuts on Aug. 31 and signed Sept. 1 to Cowboys practice squad, where he spent the entire season.
COLLEGE: Played as a reserve defensive end for two years at South Carolina after transferring from Butler (Kan.) Community College ... As a senior, Smith played in every game with two starts, posting 38 tackles, a sack and a fumble recovery ... As a junior, he played in every contest and had 11 tackles ... Before transferring to South Carolina, he lettered twice as a defensive lineman at Butler CC, recording 128 tackles and a season-record 20 sacks as a sophomore in 2000.
PERSONAL: Grew up in Brooklyn, N.Y., then moved to Wichita Heights, Kan. for his final two years of high school … Attended Wichita Heights and Midwood high schools … Married (wife Lashonda) with three children — Kyrun, Markaylon and Autumn … Hobbies include movies, family vacations, bicycling and video games … African-American studies major at South Carolina … Active in community service, he speaks to school groups on off days, has participated in Cincinnati food drives, and has participated in Dallas area with hospital visits, Salvation Army Thanksgiving dinners and recreational activities with wheelchair bowlers … Offseason residence is Lewisville, Texas … Full name is Shaun Jamel Smith.
http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=57
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That makes it look like he is a career back up that can start in a pinch to me... well we're in a pinch!
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No match for Smith
By GEOFF HOBSON
March 16, 2007
12:10 p.m.
In a move that surprised no one Friday, the Bengals chose not to match an offer sheet for backup defensive tackle Shaun Smith and appear to plan replacing him with a combination of veterans and most likely a draft pick.
He played in 13 games last season. Although he was active enough when he was in there with 14 tackles and a pass defensed in limited snaps, the coaches decided not to play him in the last three games of his second full season with the Bengals.
“We wish Shaun well with his new opportunity,†said Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. “For our offseason and future planning, we have chosen to allocate our cap resources in a different direction.â€
The deal is believed to be worth more than $8 million over four years.
2 mil per, not bad
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Yeah, I'm pumped for his potential, I'm not pumped for what the realistic possibilities are. REALISTICALLY, I'm thinking he'll be in a rotation with Big Ted, he'll learn a lot hopefully, but he won't be an impact player this year. At best he'll be one in the next 2 years. But at worst, he will have the size, possibly the potential, but he's too old, can't teach an old dog new tricks, and he will not live up to what we hope he can do. I'm thinking that all he is is a stop gap that will end up being a quality back up for a guy we draft maybe this year, maybe next year. Either way, I'll reserve my judgement on the guy until he does something good or shows me he will be good. I want him to be good.... but what I want doesn't seem to ever happen, at least not when it comes to the Browns. 
HAVE FAITH IN YOUR TEAM! GO BROWNS!!
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Depth is needed in the 3-4 scheme on the Line...he will probably be a high energy guy off the pine to spell our starters.
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Yeah, he got released as a UDFA by the same team (DAL)...but always on the last cuts and DAL was still running a 4-3 in 2004....we are his first real shot at 3-4 NT
I know everybody wants still to draft a 3-4 DE, me too btw...but ther will be a roster crunch
we now have:
NT Mt. Washington
NT S.Smith
DE Roye
DE R.Smith
DE Fraser
those 5 are pretty safe imho (maybe Fraser on the bubble)
then we have
DE O.Harris
NT/DE Oshinowo
McKinley, Eason and Kelley are FAs and most probably gone
If we draft a DE in rounds 2-4 that leaves 1 roster spot for Fraser, Oshi and Harris....I could care less about Harris but I want to see Oshi make the team but I also like Fraser for passing downs...hmm...but I guess those are good problems to have
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Shaun Smith to Offer
Sheet!!!
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