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mercer2b started the first thread on this subject...let the discussion continue...
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O.k I'll say this about Flynn..from things I've been able to piece together ,the Browns are going to have CM compete for the 2012 season...that said we all know Wallace is a backup..so essentially U have 2 backups competing.
Who's going to be the new QB to come in and challenge?
There are at least 4 QB's in this draftthe Browns will have their eye on..Luck/Griffith/Jones/Tannehill and maybe one more.
Now do they have a interest in Flynn?
It would seem logical for Holmy..I believe Holmgren has said that when you take a QB high in the draft you have to play him and I think there will be a sense of urgency here to not want to go through the growing pains with RGIII in a completely different offense from what he's used to.
Then again they might..they might view him as such a impact player that they must have him..especially knowing they won't be able to pry Luck from Indy..
You have a guy in Flynn who knows the offense we want to run (or at least he knows the basic parameters of the WCO) and has shown an ability to run it effectively.
You have an extra first round pick - a price that nobody else will likely be able to match - and if you don't use it on Flynn you're using one of your first rounders on a QB likely anyway. 
I don't think I've ever seen Flynn play except at LSU , but this just makes too much sense given our current situation.
He's still young ..making this move allows the Browns to keep pretty much all of their picks and target playmakers.
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Kind of my thinking.
I think we make a play for the guy.
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Unless GB franchises Flynn it will be a bidding war in cash not draft picks negating our extra 1st round pick advantage.
FWIW - on Mike and Mike in the Morning - Mark Schlerith was on and said he thought Peyton Manning would be the Colts Qb for the next 4-5 yrs and felt that the Colts would trade the #1 pick. Just one man's opinion but maybe Indy taking Luck isn't a slam dunk.
Has Jones declared yet? I haven't been following that lately.
If healthy I think Tony Campbell would really improve our offense.Compared to Flynn I think Flynn has a pottentially higher ceiling but also a significantly lower floor.
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Quote:
Unless GB franchises Flynn it will be a bidding war in cash not draft picks negating our extra 1st round pick advantage.
FWIW - on Mike and Mike in the Morning - Mark Schlerith was on and said he thought Peyton Manning would be the Colts Qb for the next 4-5 yrs and felt that the Colts would trade the #1 pick. Just one man's opinion but maybe Indy taking Luck isn't a slam dunk.
Has Jones declared yet? I haven't been following that lately.
If healthy I think Tony Campbell would really improve our offense.Compared to Flynn I think Flynn has a pottentially higher ceiling but also a significantly lower floor.
True.....but I think they will tag him. They know they have a commodity that will bring some value and have a zero % chance teams won't take him even if tagged.
Yes, they want Finley to stay, and may have to pay him more or lose him, but I doubt they just let Flynn walk.
I wouldn't.
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GB needs to get the trade in place BEFORE free agency too. Otherwise, they will cripple their cap situation with a $14-16mil cap-hold from the franchise tag on Flynn.
And, Flynn (and his agent) will want to be picking his new team. They do have some leverage in this situation as they can refuse to sign long-term and no team is going to want to trade for him, give up any significant pick and not have him under their control.
They definitely could franchise him, but there are alot of pitfalls on that road.
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Quote:
If healthy I think Tony Campbell would really improve our offense.Compared to Flynn I think Flynn has a pottentially higher ceiling but also a significantly lower floor.
Tony? Do you mean Jason?
Or Earl? If Earl was healthy he would definitely help our offense. 
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All good points no doubt.
I just think the pitfalls of just letting him go are greater.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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It will be interesting to see what they do but the fact is how doesa he stack up to the yet to be drafted QB's?
Thats the question MH/TH have to figure out.
If he's on par they almopst have to pursue that course first..if they feel Griffith is more impactful and they can still get him,or they also like Tannehill/Jones ,then they don't have to make that move.
But they better be certain .
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Quote:
FWIW - on Mike and Mike in the Morning - Mark Schlerith was on and said he thought Peyton Manning would be the Colts Qb for the next 4-5 yrs and felt that the Colts would trade the #1 pick. Just one man's opinion but maybe Indy taking Luck isn't a slam dunk.
Heard that also...
Many r saying NO ONE player is worth the cost of 3 #1's +...
Irsay might just think the SAME WAY...And move for the picks...
He might just end up with Griffin at 4...
Luck
Kalil
Claiborne
Griffin sits at 4...
If we can get Irsay's attention...This is FAR from a done deal...
And nothing says ST. Louis and Minny would be willing to move down...Especially since this is a Top 5 HEAVY draft...This thing drops BAD after these 5...
Luck
Kalil
Claiborne
RGIII
Blackmon
And it's why I DO NOT want to move down this year...One of those 5 will be a Brown...And it WON'T be Kalil...
Go Browns!!!
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Mark Schlerith doesn't know if PM's neck will hold up 4- 5 years from now or even from taking a hit in practice...thats what should concern the Colts,it would if I was there. And they have no one viable to take his place..
If I were them (and trust me,I want Luck here) I would hold that pick for the unknown factors with Manning.
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Haha yea, Jason. Not sure where Tony came from. Earl would be a good pick up if he we think his knees would hold up
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OK,, maybe I have this wrong, but isn't Flynn an UFA this year... meaning that unless they franchise him, all you gotta do is give him the deal he wants (whatever that is) and he's yours...
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Yes he is but they can still slap a tag on him to get comp for him leaving.
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Quote:
GB needs to get the trade in place BEFORE free agency too. Otherwise, they will cripple their cap situation with a $14-16mil cap-hold from the franchise tag on Flynn.
And, Flynn (and his agent) will want to be picking his new team. They do have some leverage in this situation as they can refuse to sign long-term and no team is going to want to trade for him, give up any significant pick and not have him under their control.
They definitely could franchise him, but there are alot of pitfalls on that road.
They can't trade him. No trades can be made until the new league year, at which time he'll be a UFA.
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Quote:
Luck
Kalil
Claiborne
RGIII
Blackmon
And it's why I DO NOT want to move down this year...One of those 5 will be a Brown...And it WON'T be Kalil...
I'm somewhat leery about moving down, too. But what if you still came away with Richardson and, say Kendall Wright in Round 1, plus whatever you get for moving down? And by the way, what might we get for moving down with the Redskins, Dolphins or Seahawks?
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If I move down I absolutely have to have a 2013 1st round pick included in whatever package is offered before I even listen to a trade proposal.
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Quote:
Quote:
GB needs to get the trade in place BEFORE free agency too. Otherwise, they will cripple their cap situation with a $14-16mil cap-hold from the franchise tag on Flynn.
And, Flynn (and his agent) will want to be picking his new team. They do have some leverage in this situation as they can refuse to sign long-term and no team is going to want to trade for him, give up any significant pick and not have him under their control.
They definitely could franchise him, but there are alot of pitfalls on that road.
They can't trade him. No trades can be made until the new league year, at which time he'll be a UFA.
let me clarify:
if they want to go the NE-Cassel route, then they will need to franchise tag him, talk with Flynn/agent and find a trade partner before the start of FA. then, once the clock strikes midnight, submit the trade paperwork to the NFL offices so that they can pursue FAs as they normally would (though it would be slightly delayed).
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Ah, yes they could do that. They'd be stuck with the cap hit from whatever the value of Flynn's franchise tag is, though. Flynn would also have to agree to go along with it, or he'd just not sign the tag tender. Granted, if he didn't he'd be sitting out of football, but the league and the players union would most likely lean heavily on the Packers for that strongarm type of tactic and push them to rescind the tag. Lastly, they'd have to pay Jermichael Finley significantly more than the projected $5-6 million tag for a TE this coming year. That's a lot to give up for a likely second-round pick, in my opinion at least.
I also don't believe that the tag can be applied until free agency starts, but I could be mistaken about that.
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I think it would be 2 2nd round picks, but yes, I agree that it's risky and why I don't think they will do it. Just have to keep it in mind (as Peen and others have mentioned).
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2 2nd rounders might be steep, but I'm just basing it on the Cassel and Kolb deals. KC traded a 2nd rounder but also got Vrabel. Cards traded a 2012 2nd rounder which, if I'm applying the rule of thumb correctly, would be valued equivalently to a 2011 3rd rounder, plus a player. Granted, Kolb couldn't have been traded pre-draft, but the Eagles still took a trade that didn't get them a whole lot for the present.
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Cromartie was valued pretty high when he was included in that trade. I would put that deal on par with the Schaub deal (2 2nd rounders)
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Fair enough.
I actually forgot Schaub was traded; I was thinking he left as a FA.
It's also worth noting that a big part of Cassel getting franchised was because Tom Brady was coming off knee surgery and had setbacks in rehab due to infections.
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Quote:
Yes he is but they can still slap a tag on him to get comp for him leaving.
Which then begs the question. he's a QB,, so if they franchise him, do they have to pay him the average of the 5 top QB's in the league or 5 top Backup QB's.
If it's of the Top 5 QB's in the league, he's going to get a boat load of cash, would GB actually pay that?
Now, let me pose this question. If Andrew Luck is the first pick by Indy and he sits behind Manning, isn't his salary going to skew the dickens out of the the back up QB numbers?
One last question that I just don't even know where to get the answer from, but has any team every franchised a back up other than Cassell in NE?
Just asking because frankly, I don't know how that would be handled.
Who else is a UFA for GB.. is there anyone else up there that they might consider the Tag for rather than Flynn?
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Damanshot
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Signing Flynn would handcuff our draft day options, which is why I don't think we'll sign him.
Say we sign Flynn then, for whatever reason, RGIII (who I don't like) falls to us. What do we do know? We can't take RGIII because we just committed big money to a free agent QB.
Say Indianpolis calls us the night before the draft and says, "We'll give you the #1 pick for both of your first rounders this year." Unlikely, but not impossible. We have to say.
Flynn is an interesting option, but I think he is more of an option for a team that doesn't have the options we do in the draft.
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Which then begs the question. he's a QB,, so if they franchise him, do they have to pay him the average of the 5 top QB's in the league or 5 top Backup QB's.
Top 5 QB's.
There is no positional differentiation for backup vs. starter... a QB is a QB.
However, unless this changed with the new CBA, they can still use the Transition Tag, which is the average of the Top 10 salaries instead of the Top 5.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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as previously mentioned:
Cassell-NE is the only example of a team franchising a player with the intent to trade, which is the only reason GB would do so to Flynn. They do need to free up the cap space to even consider it as an option.
GB does have Finley who they would like to franchise to ensure a $5-6mil/year contract rather than the one he would get on the open-market (likely considerably higher and no guarantee he would allow them to match).
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Wasn't the transition tag only for restricted free agents?
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Quote:
Wasn't the transition tag only for restricted free agents?
yessir. that is correct.
#gmstrong
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Really? I thought it was a lesser tag for UFA's and the regular Tenders applied to RFA's?
Oy, been too long since I've paid attention to things, I guess.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Signing Flynn would handcuff our draft day options, which is why I don't think we'll sign him.
Say we sign Flynn then, for whatever reason, RGIII (who I don't like) falls to us. What do we do know? We can't take RGIII because we just committed big money to a free agent QB.
Say Indianpolis calls us the night before the draft and says, "We'll give you the #1 pick for both of your first rounders this year." Unlikely, but not impossible. We have to say.
Flynn is an interesting option, but I think he is more of an option for a team that doesn't have the options we do in the draft.
Nope..U aren't getting the bigger picture..the Browns can sign Flynn and still take one of the top QB's in the draft..in fact thats a option that I have heard some discuss..not unheard of.and BTW the Colts won't come calling us..it'll be the Browns calling them.
Now what you don't get is something I already said..Luck/Griffith are not the only QB's the Browns like..remember that .
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Quote:
Quote:
Wasn't the transition tag only for restricted free agents?
yessir. that is correct.
*NOTE: Since it turns out that Purp was correct aboiut the transition tag, there is now another option.
so that means, thier options in GB regarding Flynn are:
1. Sign him to a contract as the Back up to Rodgers
2. Franchise him and pay the average of the top QB's in the league
3. Transition Tag (Would GB get any compensation if they lose him)
4. Let him walk.
Why would Flynn sign on as a Backup when he probably will get offers to be the starter from more than one place?
If they Franchise him, wouldn't they have to take into consideration the millions more that Manning might get thus really skewing the average number for the year?
And if they franchise him, then they run the risk of losing Finley...
If I'm Green Bay, I get ready to find the next great back up to Rodgers then wish Flynn the very best out there.
That is, unless there is an option that hasn't been presented yet.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/05/12 03:00 PM.
#GMSTRONG
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I know that Luck/Griffin aren't the only two QB's the Browns like. But in my scenario, the one in which we signed a 27-year-old free agent QB to a contract worth probably around $50 million for five or six years, it would be dumb to draft a QB high in the draft.
If you are paying a guy that much money then I think it is safe to assume you think he will be the guy for at least the duration of the contract, don't you think so?
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#gmstrong
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Which basically means that they can get right of first refusal with any offer sheet that he signs.... which lets the rest of the league set his market value.
It opens them up to a poison pill that would stop them from matching, but that probably isn't too likely to happen.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Any free agent can be transition tagged. However, transition players can be negotiated with by other teams. The tagging team has right of first refusal, but receives no compensation (unlike non-exclusive franchise players), so the bargaining team can use a poison pill.
I see Purp was a step ahead.
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Quote:
I know that Luck/Griffin aren't the only two QB's the Browns like. But in my scenario, the one in which we signed a 27-year-old free agent QB to a contract worth probably around $50 million for five or six years, it would be dumb to draft a QB high in the draft.
If you are paying a guy that much money then I think it is safe to assume you think he will be the guy for at least the duration of the contract, don't you think so?
Depends how they structure the contract..if it's frontloaded they have a out after 3 years.
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Also, Daman, I believe the franchise tag only considers base salaries. I could be mistaken though.
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No.
Nobody pays out a $50 million contract on a player and then turns around and immediately drafts the replacement.... unless you're missing more than a few marbles.
Nobody pays out a front-loaded $50 million contract and only expects 3 years of play... unless you're missing more than a few marbles.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Matt Flynn? Hmm...continued.
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