DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Cleveland officially 4 and 22...who ya got?

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Four more draft spots decided ... As a result of today's playoff games, four more spots in the opening-round selection order of the 2012 have been decided. Cincinnati will pick 21st, followed Cleveland, with a pick acquired from Atlanta, at #22, while Detroit will pick 23rd and Pittsburgh 24th after losing in overtime to Denver.

Pick Team
1 Indianapolis
2 St. Louis
3 Minnesota
4 Cleveland
5 Tampa Bay
6 Washington
7 Jacksonville
8 Carolina
9 Miami
10 Buffalo
11 Seattle
12 Kansas City
13 Dallas
14 Arizona
15 Philadelphia
16 NY Jets
17 Cincinnati (from Oakland)
18 San Diego
19 Chicago
20 Tennessee
21 Cincinnati
22 Cleveland (from Atlanta)
23 Detroit
24 Pittsburgh

We trade down with Miami, picking up an extra 2 this year and next years no.1. We Pick Tannehill,QB, Texas A&M at 9 and the Baylor WR, Wright( I think at 22). Thats my guess right now anyway.

We trade up to #1, take Andrew Luck.

This is super tough to predict b/c I know 2 of the top 3 will be Luck and Kalil. Luck is obvious and Kalil will slip no later then Minnesota at 3. The other top 3 pick is a real wild card unless RGIII comes out and someone falls in love with him (as St Louis or Minnesota will not draft him so will have to be trade)....Will that happen? My gut tells me someone will pull the trigger. That leaves # 4 which I would say most draft pundits have some combination of Claiborne, Blackmon, and Richardson as next BPA. The Browns need help at all of those positions so I think it will definitely be one of those.

4) Blackmon(WR)
22) Mercilus (DE)
37) Minnifield (CB)
68) LaMichael James (RB)
100) Adcock (RT)
117) Iloka (S)

The dream scenario:

RG3 falls to 4 and we trade down with Miami for their 2nd round pick (I assume we'd get a 2nd/3rd next year, probably not a first to go down 5 spots). Anyway:

9 - Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford - Establish our bookends for the next 7 years. I have him a little lower than Kalil - but at RT they become closer as prospects.
22 - Alshon Jeffery/Michael Floyd (I like both quite a bit, 40s will determine which, if either, will fall)
37 - Zach Brown, OLB, UNC - What we've really lacked in our LB corps is any speed, and Brown runs ~4.4 40 and is a member of the track team. A little undersized, but an optimal WILL in our offense.
39 - Brandon Jenkins, DE, Florida State - Pass rush opposite Sheard.


without the trade I'd do:
4 - Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
22 - Alshon Jeffery/Malcolm Floyd
37 - Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State

My dream draft would be the following, though I'm guessing DeCastro and Mercilus are gone by my picks, so I made a 2nd version

Trade down with Washington and pick up an extra 2nd.

Scenario 1
#6: Trent Richardson, RB
#22: David DeCastro, OG
2a: Whitney Mercilus, DE
2b: Dwight Jones, WR
3a: Andrew Datko, RT

Scenario 2 (more realistic, but still with the trade)
#6: Trent Richardson, RB
#22: Whitney Mercilus, DE
2a: Kelechi Osemele, OG
2b: Dwight Jones, WR
3a: Andrew Datko, RT

Theres so many things that could happen here...

Miami and Washington both want QBs and that could play to our advantage. I think that the fact that Miami is that far behind Washington could play to our advantage. While Miami may want to move ahead of Washinton...they would want to go to Tampa or Cleveland...Indy, STL, and Minnesota have enough needs to take one of the top guys...STL could be a wild card as they need a lot of picks to improve...

I see the top 3 going

Andrew Luck to Indy
Matt Kalil/Justin Blackmon to STL (they need playmakers)
Matt Kalil/Morris Claiborne to Min.

At 4...were the first team that may want a QB...this could be to our advantage as Miami and Washington will want RG3 as he is the only good QB outside of Andrew Luck that is coming out because Barkley and Landry are going back to school. We could bait the others into ponying up a big pick, or taking Claiborne, Blackmon, RG3, or Trent Richardson depending on what they want/feel/need/is available.


Very speculative, but i see us moving back in the draft. being at 6 or 9 would clear up our picks as claiborne, blackmon, kalil, rg3, and richardson would all be around, but not at 6/9...Wed still get a talented guy...but the pick could be made for us, and giving us additional picks as miami or washington will have made a move to get ahead of us.

I see Miami trying to make a bigger splash than Washington, but Washington has a greater need at QB. That being said...I expect Matt Flynn to be a Miami Dolphin and RG3 being a Skin...

Therefore we'd be at 6...and i think that gives us Trent Richardson at 6

so...at 22...we have needs still at WR (please Alshon Jeffrey but he wont be there). RT, DE, and OLB...DE would be the most likely pick (except i think we will sign Mario Williams) so not DE...

Trent Richardson will be our first pick...

thats all i got

1a) RB Trent Richardson
1b) DE Whitney Mercilus
2) OG Kelechi Osemele
3) OT Levy Adcock
4a) DT Mike Daniels
4b) QB Austin Davis

I am using http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php as a guide to try to make sure my picks are not too unreasonable.

I say we sign Jason Campbell. This gives us the flexibility to take RGIII and give him a year to learn to play QB from under center if we are sold on him or allows us bargaining power to get more in a trade if we are not. Also eliminates any "need" to trade up to make sure we get RGIII. Despite efforts to resign Hillis, he decides his fortunes would be better served elsewhere.

The top of the draft goes as follows:

1 - Indy - Luck
2 - StL - Trades down with Miami or Wahington who take RGII. So much for having flexibility to take him or trade down.
3 - Minn - Kailil


Browns on the clock:

4 - Blackmon wr Okie st

22 - Lamar Miller RB Miami

Rnd 2 - I would love to get Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois but the mock I am using has him going at #30. I still have hopes that he will fall to our second round pick but as of now it looks like that won't happen so I go with Lavonte David OLB Nebraska.

Rnd 3 - Lane Adcock RT Okie St. The mock has him available at our pick in round 4 but not knowing (doubting) that he will last that long I take him here.

4a - Shea McClellin DE Boise St - A little undersized and will need to add some bulk but a playmaker at DE. I think he fits the mold of a Heckert middle round DE.

4b - Jarius Wright Wr Arkansas - I think he will be gone by this point but the above mock still has him available. If he is gone I consider his cohort Joe Adams who isn't the receiver Wright is but will add speed to the wr corp and explosiveness to the punt return game. Here might also be a place to get good value on a small school Cb who will be under drafted because of his school but I haven't looked enough to have any suggestions at this point. Oline depth is also an option here.

With this draft, our offense has become dare I say explosive. We solidify the oline and also add speed and playmaking ability to the defense. We still need a major upgrade at FS but I don't see anyone available in this draft to do that.

To answer this question before FA signings is akin to guessing when the world will end.

I love draft talk to kill time, but until FA, it's nothing but killing time.

I really don't know what to think about the 4th pick. I know we need a WR (bad) but I don't know if Blackmon is worth that pick. Unlike others on this board I don't have access to "film", so the best I can do is read up on players and then decide for myself what I think of the guy. From what I've read (so far) he might not have the speed necessary to be a true #1 wide receiver, to me he seems very similar to Greg Little. I know 40-yard dash times don't tell the whole story, but Blackmon's forty is one I am very interested in. Also, like running backs (see next paragraph) it seems like more WR's are popping up out of nowhere (Coltson, Austin, Cruz, Stevie Johnson, etc.)

I also have watched Trent Richardson a lot (they are on CBS all the time) and know he is a talented running back (some say the most talented since Peterson), but it's hard for me to be okay with taking a running back that high in the draft when they are so readily available (Fred Jackson, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Arian Foster, Ahmad Bradshaw, were all undrafted or drafted very deep into the draft and there are many more running backs that pop up out of nowhere that I can't think of). Add to that a very strong free agent WR class (Which I hope we are involved in. DeSean Jackson age 25, Dwayne Bowe age 27, and Pierre Garcon age 25 are all talented receivers who are still young enough to factor into our rebuilding plan). If we are able to add one of those free agents mentioned to a group of Little, Norwood, Massaquoi, and Cribbs I would be very satisfied with that position.

In the past I have always been in favor of trading down if the guy we wanted wasn't there. But that was mostly because of the exorbitant contract we would have to give to an unproven player. While it will now be easier to trade down because teams won't have to sign rookies to huge contracts, it also means you can take a more talented player for less money. With that said, if the guy we wanted (Blackmon, Claiborne, RGIII or whoever) is not there then I am all for trading down and gaining more draft picks. This team's biggest problem is still depth. If we could somehow end up with two first rounders and two second rounders that would add four very talented players to our roster.

As it stands right now, I think the draft will go like this 1. Luck 2. Kalil 3. RGIII (via trade up) and then us. I think Nick Perry will shoot up the draft boards and be a viable top five pick before the draft process is through. He is a great pass rusher and would look good on the line with Sheard, Rubin, and Taylor. He is one of the possibilities. Another is Morris Claiborne. I don't know much about him, but from what I know he is a very talented corner. As well all know the NFL is a passing league, and being able to have two corners capable of shutting down top WR's would be a great thing to have, but it would a luxury. As of right now I'm going Perry with the fourth pick.

With the 22nd pick my dream scenario would be David DeCastro, but he might be a top ten pick so I can't even consider him at this point. I really don't know much about the guys at the bottom half of the 1st round (yet) so I will just throw out a few names that might be available: Luke Kuechly, Zach Brown, and Jared Crick are all guys that intrigue me.

Trade back from 4 to 6 and get Washington's No. 2. We may still be able to get Blackmon. If so:
1A - Blackmon or Richardson if Blackmon's gone
1B - Tannehill, Jeffery, Mercilus (depending how pick #1 goes)
2A - Sanu, Mercilus, Z. Brown/Burfict, depending on prior picks
2B - Best RT available

If we miss on Tannehill, we should get and develop Foles. If we don't bring back Hillis, get the Boise State or Temple guy at RB. There's some RB value out there, although Richardson is probably special. If we sign Mario at DE and resign Hillis, we should focus early on WR, LB and CB.

I would trust Heckert trading down, because he will find a quality starter with Washington's second-round pick. His first three picks from last year were all solid starters.

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I could see us grabbing DeCastro at #9 and then possibly picking up Tannehill with the 22 pick...

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Do you really think Tannehill will be there at 22 with Landry Jones off the market?

First..some of U need to check n see who went back to school..some of the names posted are invalid..
Next..DJ your board looks similar(as in past times) to mine..I would add some names in no certain order..

Mike Adams OT ,Alex Okafor, DE, Dwayne Allen TE ,Tyler Nielsen LB...

What do you guys know about Foles and Wheedon? From what I've read, Foles is big and has a great arm. He needs to be brought along, but seems to have all the tools.
Everyone knows Wheedon is gonna be 29 when the season starts, but could he still be a viable option? I assume he's mature and talented. I don't know how strong his arm is or how much his age is discounting his draft prospects.
Are there other sleepers out there with NFL size and strong arms? When you look at Dalton, Yates and the kid from Fordham who played for Arizona, it seems like a good staff could develop someone given time.

At #4 I would like Blackmon. I think if we were able to draft him he would defiantly be our #1 WR. Little would be our #2, I'd put Norwood as our #3 and let MoMass and Cribbs fight for our #4 spot.

If Blackmon is gone my next guy is Richardson and then RG3. I am really hoping Washington and/or Miami will be willing to jump up and get RG3 and we stay in the Top 10 of the draft but accumulate a few more picks. Maybe you can pick up a #1 for next year if one of them is that desperate to get RG3.


At #22 it's BPA. Not knowing what we do in FA our need at this spot can/will change.

I wish I knew what they plan for FA if anything. that might lead us to a clue as to the Draft they have in mind....

Foles and Weeden are comparable to DA/Henne type QBs...they have plenty arm strength, have the QB size....now, the question is how coachable they are and how much football intelligence they have left. There are question marks with these guys...still am a Weeden pimp but have cooled off on him a bit after watching his last games...his footwork and mechanics go to hell when pressured. The age thing doesn't bother me too much...he has plenty of years left and on tape he's a 1st round QB easily if he was 23yo and not 28

Don't see many sleepers in this class at QB...a guy I'd like to develop is Brantley from the Gators...I'm probably the only one who sees a decent pocket QB....if there is a Brady in this class, I think he has the best shot, although being a longshot...would like to hear Peen say something about him, he has probably watched every game

@Attack

Adams is on my "torn" list right now, just not sure he wants it enough...interview will be crucial. Thanks for Nielsen..he wasn't on my radar at all...looks like a quality, low ceiling but high floor 4th/5th rounder...haven't scouted the TEs at all and that's probably a mistake, as I think we "only" have decent depth but not much quality on the roster, especially considering the TE-trend in the league....Watson is barely average and is in his last year coming back from multiple concussions, Moore is 1 dimensional and Cameron a project...Smith isn't good at anything...we have so many other needs that I probably tend to play it out with this group for 1 more season....but you're right, if a quality player offers value at 1 of our pick...why not?

Foles reminds me of Roethlisberger.. (NO, I'm not saying he WILL BE Roesthlisberger).. he's big and strong, is very hard to bring down, he has a very strong arm and can throw with velocity even when he's off balance and his feet aren't set, he does try to throw some ill advised passes from time to time, I think he relies on his arm strength a little too much. What I don't know is what his football IQ is and how much he could be coached up in reading defenses and learning to be smarter with the football and not trying to turn every play into a big play.... sometimes you just have to throw it away and live to fight another day, he doesn't do that very often.

I think he is a 2 year project which is why I don't really want him here, I think he would be a great fit in San Fran since Alex Smith has bought himself at least another year or two to see if he can replicate the success he had this year... so I think Foles could sit there for a couple years with minimal pressure and work with a great offensive coach...

SF already has Colin Kaepernick in the 'no pressure understudy that needs work' role though.

Foles also set the Pac12/10 record for completion%, so he's not all arm strength.

He's intriguing as a later mid-round pick for sure (I'd consider him in the 4th as a possible QB3 for us).

Foles will probably go no later than mid 2nd...he's flying up draft boards. I like his year to year improvement and liked him as a mid round prospect too...but taking him in the top 50 means he'll be considered as franchise QB prospect....not sure at this point I'd make that investment

I agree. Was thinking he would likely go mid-2nd by the end of it.

I was just saying where I would pick him for the Browns (because I don't think we take him high unless we miss out on Flynn in FA, RGIII in the draft and really need to pick someone in the 2nd and are high on Foles - and I think it would be a bit of a reach there).

I still think Tannehill is borderline 1st round material, and more likely early second.

I think draft experts are much more likely to push a candidate up the board because they've become the "3rd best QB" than a team will. For instance, schematically Tannehill and Jones are so different that no team that likes Tannehill would have drafted Jones and vice versa - so I don't see how Jones' absence pushes Tannehill up the board.

And only a few teams actually need a QB. That is one position where you never take BPA, unless it's later (Mallett to N.E.). You either need one or you don't.
I haven't heard anything to make me not like Foles. If he's a two-year project, that's fine with me. Let Colt have next season and see what we have in 2013.

I've been thinking hard the last few days about who Heckert's top 4 are. Not who I want, or what should happen, but just trying to think with his past, and this team and system, etc...

My best guess is..

1. Luck
2. Kalil
3. Claiborne
4. Richardson

I tried to factor in needs, somewhat, but Heckert seems to me like he's not going to stray too far from going BPA. I feel he went BPA with Haden, and somewhat with Taylor, although nobody really knows what their strategy was, and if Taylor was on their mind the whole time.

I like RG3, but the more I think about it, the more I think Heckert won't take him.

How do you think Heckert's top 4 go?

Because of two QB's going back to school look for Tannehill to be drafted a bit earlier than he should,although I like him and Foles. I beleive I heard the Browns have scouted Ryan heavily..
I really want to get some info as to whom they will be targeting..

I'm just glad we'll be getting Blackmon, Claiborne or RG3 (if we stay at #4). More than likely, two of those three will be there. I have a feeling we'll be choosing between Claiborne and Blackmon. And I'd probably lean towards Claiborne.....but who knows, with our lack of offense and the way the NFL is a pass-first league, maybe HH&S will value Blackmon higher.

I am also ok with trading down a few spots for a someone's first and second this year (depending on the exact pick and values).

We need to maximize one thing with this team - create a talent inflow.

Maybe this question is for another thread......does anyone think the loss to a mobile, run-option QB over the Steelers will influence H&H to want RG3 more? And not really to beat the Steelers specifically, but how defenses were unable to stop Tebow even as "bad of passer as he is" (I'm not trying to bash him, just saying, he's not accurate most of the time). IF, and that's a big IF, RG3 is a more accurate and strong armed run-option QB, does that make him more valuable than Claiborne/Blackmon (if he fell to us)?

It could, but I don't think Heckert will base a pick that high off of one game. Although if he likes RG3 a lot going into that game, maybe this kinda puts a bow on it?

I like RG3 a lot, I think he could change the culture of the Browns, but something tells me that we don't take him, even if he's on the board.

RGIII is not Cam Newton and he's not Tim Tebow. Those guys get away with running more because they are physically big guys (though it remains to be seen how much shorter their career windows will be doing that).

RGIII is a smaller guy. If we try to make him a run-alot QB like those two, then we better have a good backup. Also, while he is a spread-offense QB, he is NOT a spread-option QB.

also: Colt, in college, was a mobile, spread-offense QB much like RGIII (RGIII is considered a better prospect obviously)

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all that said, if we think that RGIII would actually be there at #4 (I expect a trade-up), then I would not be surprised to see us stay out of the Matt Flynn sweepstakes and take him (instead finding a FA WR and pairing him with Little and a 2nd rounder maybe?)

Free agency happens first, right? Bet Heckert wishes it was the other way around, lol.

yeah, no doubt.

figuring out how to play his hand when what he does in FA exposes at least half of what he's holding is tough.

I'd be thrilled with RG3 at the 4 and either Kendall Wright or Lamar Miller with the 22nd. If you want explosiveness and playmakers, that would fit the bill right there. I'm still hoping we find a way to convince Irsay to deal the pick and take Luck (who is perfect for the WCO) but I wouldn't complain about the above scenario in the least. If we take Richardson I'll be miffed. This isn't a RB's league anymore. If you don't have a franchise QB, you can't pass up a potential one for a freaking RB.

I'd be happy with either RG3 or Blackmon at 4. If we can trade up for Luck that would be great, but I don't think it'll happen.

If we take RG3, I don't want to see him play this year. He's gonna have to sit, unlike Luck. That would require us to either stick with Colt for the next year, or grab a cheap FA. If we draft a QB (even with the intention of sitting him for the year), I'm not sure Heckert will want to grab another in FA.

who is your backup plan at #4 if Luck/Blackmon/RGIII go in the top3?

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Yes. I don't see him going in the Top 10 and the only way that I see him going earlier is if either Washington or Miami don't trade up but trade down and I don't see a lot of suitors for their draft positions.

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Agreed, but then doesn't that mean he is highly likely to be there for us in Round 2, given that we are again ahead of Washington and Miami? Tannehill in Round 2 would be fantastic.

My plan is to be happy I'm not Heckert...

That being said, your situation shouldn't catch anyone by surprise. I'd be good with a trade-down. I don't see anyone that we would want that's worth a 4th. A team might want to jump up and grab that tackle, though.