Quote: A college kid got a DUI ; Lions & Tigers and Bears , oh my !
Exactly! Like I said, I'm not saying a DUI isn't serious, but it does happen. It happened once to Blackmon and hasn't happened again.
Say what you will about his talent level, speed, hands, etc. Those are legit reasons to not want to draft him. But because he got a DUI in 2010, THAT'S the reason you don't take him in the top 10? That's just hogwash, IMO.
Quote: I would go RT before I went guard. Steinbach will return and Pinkston will keep getting better (can he be our RT?). Lavauo isn't as bad as people make him out to be. He showed signs of growth and next year he may be decent. But JT, Steinbach, Mack, Pinkston and a stud RT would give us one of the best OLs in the league. Likewise, one more DE (Mario, please) would give us one of the best DLs in the league. That's not a bad way to build.
Why? If the best guard is rated higher than the most highly rated RT, why would you take the RT before the guard?
When you have the ability to get the best guard in the draft and you can get your RT in the 3rd or 4th round, why take an LT to occupy the RT spot? It would probably work, but why would you do it?
Pinkston may be fine, but I feel more comfy letting him sit behind the starters and gain experience and knowledge that way. He was a project that was thrust into the starting role for Steinbach after an injury. I don't think he was ever intended to be a starting guard, especially at this stage of his career.
Here's the thing about the OL. Here's what I'm looking at having as the Browns starting OL next season.
Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, David DeCastro, Nate Potter or Levy Adcock.
I think that's a pretty nice lineup there.
As for Mario Williams, I think I dropped his name as a possibility in the FA thread. I'd pay him whatever it took to have him wearing a Browns uniform. It's not like you can skimp on paying the free agents with the new CBA anyway.
If the Browns signed Mario Williams, they could have the DL look like this:
RDE Williams, DT Ahtyba Rubin, DT Phil Taylor, LDE Sheard
That's also really good.
That would still leave a first rounder and a second rounder to secure some 'big play makers' and two fourth rounders to add additional weapons in the draft. I only included Williams as the only FA signing - and we could try to add more FA talent.
Although, I would look to get Minnifield with the second round pick if he's available. You might even be able to trade down a few spots to get DeCastro and pick up an additional second rounder.
I am not sold on DeCastro - (Disclaimer - I have only seen 2 Stanford games this year) He seems like a big strong in-line mauler. Great for an offense like the 9ers but I don't see him as nimble enough to thrive in a pass 1st offense and I don't recall any plays where I saw him get out and pull.
I just now saw that. This is the exact opposite of DeCastro.
DeCastro pulls more than any guard at any level of football (he even pulls in pass protection). He is insanely agile and incredible in the open field. He's Eric Steinbach in a 315 pound body. DeCastro's biggest "weakness" is his lack of power-blocking skills.
Jester, I think you usually know your stuff, but you need to go back and watch more DeCastro because the picture you have isn't of him.
Quote: As for Mario Williams, I think I dropped his name as a possibility in the FA thread. I'd pay him whatever it took to have him wearing a Browns uniform. It's not like you can skimp on paying the free agents with the new CBA anyway.
If the Browns signed Mario Williams, they could have the DL look like this:
RDE Williams, DT Ahtyba Rubin, DT Phil Taylor, LDE Sheard
That's also really good.
I'd put the odds of Mario Williams signing with Cleveland somewhere around 1,000,000-1.
That story is a bunch of crock. Marino never had a talented RB behind him, in fact most years they went with a RB by committee approach because none of the backs were good enough to carry the load by themselves. The only time the Dolphins but up any good running numbers were Marino's first 2 years in the league most other years their running game was below average.
Quote: I just now saw that. This is the exact opposite of DeCastro.
DeCastro pulls more than any guard at any level of football (he even pulls in pass protection). He is insanely agile and incredible in the open field. He's Eric Steinbach in a 315 pound body. DeCastro's biggest "weakness" is his lack of power-blocking skills.
Jester, I think you usually know your stuff, but you need to go back and watch more DeCastro because the picture you have isn't of him.
If this guy is all of that - at 315, even - then he needs to be here in Cleveland next year. Steiny is getting older and his injuries aren't minor.... we need the guy that is going to fill his shoes and stand next to Thomas for the rest of his career.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: I just now saw that. This is the exact opposite of DeCastro.
DeCastro pulls more than any guard at any level of football (he even pulls in pass protection). He is insanely agile and incredible in the open field. He's Eric Steinbach in a 315 pound body. DeCastro's biggest "weakness" is his lack of power-blocking skills.
Jester, I think you usually know your stuff, but you need to go back and watch more DeCastro because the picture you have isn't of him.
If this guy is all of that - at 315, even - then he needs to be here in Cleveland next year. Steiny is getting older and his injuries aren't minor.... we need the guy that is going to fill his shoes and stand next to Thomas for the rest of his career.
The problem is that DeCastro, we will either need to trade back or trade up from 22. No way is he there at 22.
Quote: Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, David DeCastro, Nate Potter or Levy Adcock.
I like the sound of DeCastro...However...I don't like the sound of what you have done here...ONLY because you have changed 3/5ths of the line from last year(Steiny is a return but still a change in personell)...and when you do that you lose a lot....especially in the chemistry department...... I never like to change more than 2 guys on the line at a time if I can help it...
To answer your question...Pinkston has played RT and LT in College. whether or not he can do it in the Pro's???? Well thats the million dollar question...If he can...then Grabbing DeCastro and placing Pinkston outside to RT solves my personal issue concerning changing too much on the line. Not too mention it frees up a pick or free agent money to go elsewhere. Pinkston was drafted because he had the versatility to play multiple positions...so...In our scenario...I guess he would get that chance...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
Pinkston dropped in the draft because NFL FO's didn't think he could play OT. We drafted him and immediately Heckert told everyone that we drafted him to play OG.
I don't want to go into the NFL season with Pinkston as our starting RT (if injuries cause a shift and he has to pick it up, fine - stuff happens. but, it shouldn't be THE plan)
Quote: I don't want to go into the NFL season with Pinkston as our starting RT (if injuries cause a shift and he has to pick it up, fine - stuff happens. but, it shouldn't be THE plan)
I agree. He made strides as a guard last year. Why change something that's working? The position we have to fix on this O-Line is RT. But putting Pinkston there leaves a question mark and creates a new problem.
I think our guards are good enough, Lavuao and Pinkston are young and will improve. RT is the position where we need to find someone to step in and play
Quote: As for Mario Williams, I think I dropped his name as a possibility in the FA thread. I'd pay him whatever it took to have him wearing a Browns uniform. It's not like you can skimp on paying the free agents with the new CBA anyway.
If the Browns signed Mario Williams, they could have the DL look like this:
RDE Williams, DT Ahtyba Rubin, DT Phil Taylor, LDE Sheard
That's also really good.
I'd put the odds of Mario Williams signing with Cleveland somewhere around 1,000,000-1.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
I see only 2 guys in this draft that I would want for my LT (Martin and Kalil) but it is loaded with potential right tackles. RT is probably the most loaded position in this draft.
There are some really good guard/tackle prospects that will project to tackle like Kelechi Osemele and Cordy Glenn and then you have guys from Adams and Reiff who will probably be first tried at LT then moved to RT when they show they dont have the skills for the position. Then you have another 12-15 prospects that have the talent to play RT at the next level.
James Carmon is my favorite late day OT prospect, even if we take an OT earlier, I wouldnt mind picking him up later. Adcock in the 3rd would be good but I wouldnt take him any earlier. Schwartz from Cal is another big physical tackle in the 3-5 range that will be a starter for a lot of years. Andrew DAtko is 1st round talent that has endured some injures that should be there in the 4th as well.
Here is the issue I have with Pinkston and Luvauo at staying at G and eventually taking over...They were a large part of the Offensive woes this year.....Not becuase of pass blocking (although that wasn't always great either)...But because they can't move and pull like Steiny could. They limited our running game and made us one dimensional in the running game. We could not run outside...because of them.... Because we could not run outside...Teams stacked against the inside running game. So since we were one dimensional in the running game...we essentially had no running game. and that made us one dimensional as an offense. and that is a death knoll in the NFL.
That is why grabbing a DeCastro (if possible) would be a big advantagewith Steiny we would be able to attack the perimeters in the run game and we should still be able to run inside...
But you do have a valid point about Pinkston at Tackle....I guess it would depend on the FO's evaluation of whether he could handle it or not...if he can't ...then we need to go after a RT in FA or the draft and make the necessary changes...and we have to make the decision on whether staying with Pinkston or Luvauo at RG and a new RT or changing 3/5th of the line to go with DeCastro and a new RT is better....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
Lauvao can pull. He's probably the most athletic RG we've had in years.
Steinbach is a whole different animal. A true athlete at LG that has rare ability to move.
Compare what Pinkston and Steiny bring to the table I agree with you. Can't compare Steiny and Lauvao though. Lauvao is a far more powerful guy so don't compare him to a rare LG mover.
I want to be clear here.....
Lauvao has the talent to be a Pro Bowl RG. His mistakes this year were mental as could be expected of any player his age (I do not overlook or forgive his penchant for playing past the whistle and getting personal fouls though).
He was stout in pass pro and he took it to people when run blocking. When there was pressure up the middle in pass pro it was because of A Gap overloads where he and Mack made mental mistakes. Straight up though he was not beaten often, even as a young pup.
He's a couple years away from being a top guy IMO.
Put another talent next to him at RT and the line is set.
Quote: Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach, Alex Mack, David DeCastro, Nate Potter or Levy Adcock.
I like the sound of DeCastro...However...I don't like the sound of what you have done here...ONLY because you have changed 3/5ths of the line from last year(Steiny is a return but still a change in personell)...and when you do that you lose a lot....especially in the chemistry department...... I never like to change more than 2 guys on the line at a time if I can help it...
That's great but if the chemistry is bad and causes bad smells then I want to change it.
Give me DeCastro at RG and Nate Potter or Levy Adcock at RT. Then, if we have to plug in Pinkston at the LG spot again next year, then we do that and let him grow some more.
Quote: To answer your question...Pinkston has played RT and LT in College. whether or not he can do it in the Pro's???? Well thats the million dollar question...If he can...then Grabbing DeCastro and placing Pinkston outside to RT solves my personal issue concerning changing too much on the line. Not too mention it frees up a pick or free agent money to go elsewhere. Pinkston was drafted because he had the versatility to play multiple positions...so...In our scenario...I guess he would get that chance...
Moving Pinkston to the RT might be an option, but he'd have to develop out there at the pro level. Nate Potter is a plug in and you've got a pro level RT there immediately. You can still leave Pinkston on the roster and you have adequate depth in case of injury while he works his skill level.
Quote: Pinkston dropped in the draft because NFL FO's didn't think he could play OT. We drafted him and immediately Heckert told everyone that we drafted him to play OG.
I don't want to go into the NFL season with Pinkston as our starting RT (if injuries cause a shift and he has to pick it up, fine - stuff happens. but, it shouldn't be THE plan)
Agree Hel...most problems on the OL were mental/miscommunication...Lauvao and Mack made the most of them in pass pro imho...the guy that got beat the most was Pashos, but even his play improved when he was healthy...and we didn't score more points in those games
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: most problems on the OL were mental/miscommunication
And given the number of parts that got changed out along with Pinkston being a rookie and Lauvao in his first year as a starter... and it's no wonder at all.
An upgrade at RT is absolutely in order, however. Getting Steiny back and an upgrade at RT with Lauvao & Pinky battling for RG and we should be MUCH better off. A full season of being healthy at RB should help, too.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I wonder if Steiny will even want to play anymore but if he does, he could be our RT of the immediate future as we draft and develop a mid to late rounder.
1-4 has the makings of one of the best lines the Browns has ever assemebled. Just have to find that 5 spot.
Quote: Here is the issue I have with Pinkston and Luvauo at staying at G and eventually taking over...They were a large part of the Offensive woes this year.....Not because of pass blocking (although that wasn't always great either)...But because they can't move and pull like Steiny could.
That's why I think DeCastro is a must for this team. We need to be able to establish the run but with Lauvao and Pinkston, we couldn't do that.
Quote: They limited our running game and made us one dimensional in the running game. We could not run outside...because of them.... Because we could not run outside...Teams stacked against the inside running game. So since we were one dimensional in the running game...we essentially had no running game. and that made us one dimensional as an offense. and that is a death knoll in the NFL.
That's the nub of the reason why the passing game suffered also. When you can't run the ball, your only hope is to pretend that you can and go to play-action. The Browns didn't run the ball effectively enough to use the play-action effective enough to use.
Quote: That is why grabbing a DeCastro (if possible) would be a big advantage. With Steiny we would be able to attack the perimeters in the run game and we should still be able to run inside...
And the inability to run the ball has killed the offense entirely. That's the reason why I don't think taking Richardson is as important as securing the OL woes.
Quote: But you do have a valid point about Pinkston at Tackle....I guess it would depend on the FO's evaluation of whether he could handle it or not...if he can't ...then we need to go after a RT in FA or the draft and make the necessary changes...and we have to make the decision on whether staying with Pinkston or Luvauo at RG and a new RT or changing 3/5th of the line to go with DeCastro and a new RT is better....
I honestly think that going with an entirely new right side of the OL is the way to go. You can keep Lauvao and Pinkston for depth as they develop and if injuries occur, you have them to plug in through the injuries.
Sometimes you need running back talent to have a run game. We opened holes this year that would have been 60 yard TD runs if the back had hit the hole. Best run blocking I have seen since the 80s but injured backs failed to take advantage of it.
I absolutely love DeCastro as a prospect. He's the best OG I've seen come out in a LONG time and would be thrilled to have him on the Browns, but this right here...
Quote: The problem is that DeCastro, we will either need to trade back or trade up from 22. No way is he there at 22.
He's going to go somewhere in the 12-18 range. I'm surprised that so many people who were squarely on the "we can't trade up for ANYBODY" train when it came to Luck are the same people who would be perfectly fine if it required a trade up into the middle of the first to acquire DeCastro. Because that's exactly what it will take if you want this guy.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
'm surprised that so many people who were squarely on the "we can't trade up for ANYBODY" train when it came to Luck are the same people who would be perfectly fine if it required a trade up into the middle of the first to acquire DeCastro. Because that's exactly what it will take if you want this guy.
3rd and 1b gets Decastro easy enough. People talking about spending 3 firsts and a 2nd to get Luck is a little bit different.
I know, I only ever end up posting stuff from Drafttek, but as far as guards go, they are all about Brandon Washington out of Miami as a late 2nd / early 3rd round pick . . .
Quote: I took no logo to mean that Blackmon has Dez Bryant talent without the baggage.
I don't see Dez Bryant-talent in Blackmon. He's not as big or athletic.
Jerry Rice wasn't the fastest or tallest receiver in the world, but he could ball.
People in this day and age are so obsessed with measurables.
Blackmon is an inch and a half shorter and 15 pounds lighter than Bryant was going into the draft (but his weight will go up over the next couple years).. I'll give you that he's not as big.. but not as athletic? I don't see that at all. Bryant's predraft 40 was 4.52 which isn't blazing and I see Blackmon as being every bit as physical, able to adjust and fight for the ball and able to run after the catch.
I hope the Browns draft goes something like this, barring any trades.
1a) QB Robert Griffin III 1b) WR either Jeffery, Floyd or Dwight Jones in that order 2) OT either Zebrie Sanders or Mike Adams 3) OG either Kevin Zeitler or Nate Potter 4a) CB Cliff Harris 4b) RB Cyrus Gray 5) LB Jerry Franklin 6) DE Jake Bequette 7) CB/S Robert Golden
Sure it's offense heavy, but if the Browns make an investment in a QB, they need to protect him and get a #1 WR. The defense will suffer, but I think that can be addressed in free agency. If none of the WRs are there at 22, then go D and pick up a guy like Colston, VJax or DJax in free agency. The Browns would have bright future with a draft like this.
Let's say the Browns are offered the same Atl Deal as last year from Detroit this year so they could move up and get Claiborne..do you do it? I am sorry but after Luck and Blackmon Kalil and Claiborn the talent level drops off. Next year You will know if you need a QB and Barkley, Jones and Murray will be coming out if you want to go that route. I just seen it mentioned somewhere so it made me think. And you could say screw it with so many picks and deal your3rd or 4ths through 6ths to move up considering how many we have if we wanted to slide back int the second. That would be 4 firsts in 2 years plus 4 2nds in that same time. Detroits 1,2, 4 in 12 and 1 and 3rd or 4th in 13.
That would give us 2011 #22 #23 #37 #54 #68 #100 #118 Through rd. 4^
2012 our Own picks plus Detroits 1 and 3rd or 4th
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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