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If you think Heckert is a very good talent evaluator and I do then I want him with more chances to swing and hit rather than take a top pick gimmy.
5 picks for 1 is going to be a great trade for us unless that 1 is an absolute slam dunk.
Not sure if Claiborne is because I haven't seen enough of him to tell yet.
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not to mention that Stafford hasn't been the most sturdy of QBs and one hit could make the 2013 Detroit pick be pretty high.
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Quote:
If you think Heckert is a very good talent evaluator and I do then I want him with more chances to swing and hit rather than take a top pick gimmy.
5 picks for 1 is going to be a great trade for us unless that 1 is an absolute slam dunk.
Not sure if Claiborne is because I haven't seen enough of him to tell yet.
I think he is too. Talk about bringing the talent level and youth of this team up and building a foundation for a long time.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Well I have said all along that I expect our OL to remain the same from LT to RG .... and that we'll either find a young veteran for RT, or draft one. I then expect that this line will grow together for the next 4 or 5 years. Even with Steinbach coming back, I just don't see one of the young guys getting pulled so their development can be stunted.
People complained that no one gave McCoy a chance ... because he didn't have an off-season and so on ..... well this like was "supposed" to have Steinbach at LG until he got hurt. Then the team also lost Yates to retirement. They probably didn't get as much "out of camp/Camp Colt" work as the QB/WRs did. Then Pashos got hurt .... again ........
I known that the plan was never to have the rookie and the 2nd year guy both playing this year. However, that's what happened, and they did enough, I believe, to remain the starters next year, with a new RT in the mix ...... and the RT being a young guy who will grow with the rest of the line.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't like DeCastro as much as I like Cordy Glenn.
As long as it comes down to getting a player that I'd have to bet can make it on the next level, I think Cordy Glenn looks more like a football player.
So that is to say not to trade up for DeCastro who won't even be as good as availbable if you don't trade up.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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i've seen alot of mocks that have DeCastro go in the early teens and then have Glenn go to the Bengals (either at #17 or 21).
in fact, Glenn to the Bengals seems to be one of the current 'consensus' picks out there (with the other either being a RB or CB).
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I think I would definately do that deal. I would even do a similar deal if Blackmon is on the table, although with a team picking a little higher like the Seahawks. I think they ar epicking somewhere around 14. Maybe we don't get quite what we would get to drop down to 23 but we should still pick up an additional second this year and a 1st next year.
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Quote:
I think I would definately do that deal. I would even do a similar deal if Blackmon is on the table, although with a team picking a little higher like the Seahawks. I think they ar epicking somewhere around 14. Maybe we don't get quite what we would get to drop down to 23 but we should still pick up an additional second this year and a 1st next year.
I assume that means you wouldn't pick Blackmon, which is fine. But, if you like a player and think he can be a stud for you (be it Blackmon, Griffin, Claiborne, whoever), I don't think you pass him up just to get more picks unless you think you'll be able to get another good player where you trade to.
This past year, I'm thinking H&H looked at who was left for us at 6 and felt there just wasn't a player worthy of that spot, and pulled the trigger on the trade. If AJ Green had been sitting there for us, I'm willing to bet either we would have picked him or have asked for a lot more in the Atlanta trade.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I think I would definately do that deal. I would even do a similar deal if Blackmon is on the table, although with a team picking a little higher like the Seahawks. I think they ar epicking somewhere around 14. Maybe we don't get quite what we would get to drop down to 23 but we should still pick up an additional second this year and a 1st next year.
Yeah, I'm thinking I would too. I just used to Detroit because I seen a fan of theirs offer that proposal. I would think Dallas at 14 would perfect too because they need secondary help. But Like someone else said that Det. Pick could potentially be high next year.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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man, good point on Dallas if Claiborne sitting there at #4 Jerry Jones knowing there are a ton of LSU fans in Dallas (yes, he cares about stuff like that - OU, TX, Ark, A&M, OkieSt, and LSU players get a bump there) He gets an itchy trigger finger and offers up the moon to trade up. and, we still are in a prime spot to grab Richardson/K.Wright/Lamar Miller/Reiff/J.Martin or whoever else we deem the best pick at #14 (while also getting their 2nd and 1st next year along with a couple low round picks). 
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man, good point on Dallas if Claiborne sitting there at #4
Jerry Jones knowing there are a ton of LSU fans in Dallas (yes, he cares about stuff like that - OU, TX, Ark, A&M, OkieSt, and LSU players get a bump there)
He gets an itchy trigger finger and offers up the moon to trade up. and, we still are in a prime spot to grab Richardson/K.Wright/Lamar Miller/Reiff/J.Martin or whoever else we deem the best pick at #14 (while also getting their 2nd and 1st next year along with a couple low round picks).
Oh yeah! And because it's Jerry Jones and Dallas and after a few years ago with the whole Brady Quinn thing they will just have to pay a premium on top of that..say 1 of three receivers or Murray..lol
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Yeah, I don't think that this team can afford to pass up a potentially great player if one is there when they pick in order to get extra "pretty good" players.
I think that a lot of the QB equation will be settled by the time the draft rolls around. If no QB has been signed it either means that the team has decided to go another year with McCoy or Wallace ..... or they are drafting a QB. Obviously if they have signed a QB by the time the draft rolls around, then they are not drafting a QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree as well and if Detroit offered that up I think Heckert would think long and hard about making that move. He did it last year and it would give him the ammo to move back up again if he wanted to.
I imagine alot of teams are looking at the Browns pick only because we have shown in the current past a willingness to move down if the offer is right.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.phpinteresting to see the consensus opinion for our pick. Griffin (by far) most popular, next would be between Richardson and Blackmon with Kalil, Claiborne, Kirkpatrick(?) and Coples(really?) getting a few votes too.
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funny thought.
what if we sign Matt Flynn or our FO breaks down RGIII and decides he just isn't going to be a franchise QB. but, RGIII is sitting there at #4 and teams are calling.
the Jets may be looking for a franchise QB. wouldn't it be nice to fleece them properly this time (especially if RGIII ends up being "as successful as Sanchez")?
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Quote:
funny thought.
what if we sign Matt Flynn or our FO breaks down RGIII and decides he just isn't going to be a franchise QB. but, RGIII is sitting there at #4 and teams are calling.
the Jets may be looking for a franchise QB. wouldn't it be nice to fleece them properly this time (especially if RGIII ends up being "as successful as Sanchez")?
personally I think if we signed Flynn our pick becomes the most wanted pick in the draft for RG3 because everyone knows both St Louis and Minny are not going QB. Why deal with them when you can deal with us at a cheaper price?
Everyones draft board would change.
I doubt the Jets are a team calling though I dont think they are done with Mark.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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J/C,
I have not read all these posts but, I don't remember seeing much on Richardson.
Since we've been back, all we seem to do is wonder why we never get playmakers.
Yeah theres the "We need to fix the lines & protect our QB before we do anything", been hearing that one for years.
My question is: Who touches the ball more, except for the QB? RB. Then WR.
Doesn't it make sense then to draft a True playmaker? It's been along time since we've had one of those. You could say Cribbs, but he's more quickness than he is fast. With Richardson you get it all. He can go the distance from anywhere on the field. Isn't that what we've all been hoping for? You not only got a RB who can take it back, but also as a pass catching threat out of the back field. Heck, you could line him up wide once in awhile and really make the defense wondering.
I guess my point is, He would be the most logical choice. A player who could score from anywhere ... Isn't that what we've always wanted?
You don't get that with a WR. Sure they might get 6-7 touches a game. BUT a RB would get 20 - 25 touches a game.
Thought's?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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J/C,
I have not read all these posts but, I don't remember seeing much on Richardson.
Since we've been back, all we seem to do is wonder why we never get playmakers.
Yeah theres the "We need to fix the lines & protect our QB before we do anything", been hearing that one for years.
My question is: Who touches the ball more, except for the QB? RB. Then WR.
Doesn't it make sense then to draft a True playmaker? It's been along time since we've had one of those. You could say Cribbs, but he's more quickness than he is fast. With Richardson you get it all. He can go the distance from anywhere on the field. Isn't that what we've all been hoping for? You not only got a RB who can take it back, but also as a pass catching threat out of the back field. Heck, you could line him up wide once in awhile and really make the defense wondering.
I guess my point is, He would be the most logical choice. A player who could score from anywhere ... Isn't that what we've always wanted?
You don't get that with a WR. Sure they might get 6-7 touches a game. BUT a RB would get 20 - 25 touches a game.
Thought's?
If and I do mean if we pick up a QB in FA or the FO doesnt feel that RG3 is the QB they want and RG3 is sitting there at 4 and washington calls I could see us taking him with the 6th pick. However Tampa could take him at 5.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I guess my point was, there's somebody that we could really use on O and all this talk about WR, QB & CB's heck someone even mentioned an OL. The only true playmaker on O seems to be a RB. I guess you could say RGIII, but he is an unknown to me. We have a chance to draft a real playmaker, so don't blow it.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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I just now saw that. This is the exact opposite of DeCastro.
DeCastro pulls more than any guard at any level of football (he even pulls in pass protection). He is insanely agile and incredible in the open field. He's Eric Steinbach in a 315 pound body. DeCastro's biggest "weakness" is his lack of power-blocking skills.
Jester, I think you usually know your stuff, but you need to go back and watch more DeCastro because the picture you have isn't of him.
I did throw in the disclaimer that I only saw 2 Stanford games. And really didn't wholeheartedly watch (depressing knowing how close we are to be able to draft Luck but still oh so far away). From what I did see he didn't look that nimble but when I get the chance I will watch those videos that Anarchy posted.
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Quote:
funny thought.
what if we sign Matt Flynn or our FO breaks down RGIII and decides he just isn't going to be a franchise QB. but, RGIII is sitting there at #4 and teams are calling.
the Jets may be looking for a franchise QB. wouldn't it be nice to fleece them properly this time (especially if RGIII ends up being "as successful as Sanchez")?
personally I think if we signed Flynn our pick becomes the most wanted pick in the draft for RG3 because everyone knows both St Louis and Minny are not going QB. Why deal with them when you can deal with us at a cheaper price?
Everyones draft board would change.
I doubt the Jets are a team calling though I dont think they are done with Mark.
Teams would trade with StL or Minny if they are worried that someone else might. If I am Washington and really want RGIII, I might be worried that Miami is thinking the same thing. So do I wait until the 4th pick and trade with Cleveland risking that Miami tradees with StL or Minny? No, if I really want RGIII I trade with StL and make sure nobody else can sneak in front of me and take my guy.
Am I perfect? No
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I can see your point and it is very valid however I dont think they want to move down very far in the draft unless someone just throws the farm at them.
I feel that both teams will field offers sure but in the end they know that we are taking a player that isnt a QB so thats one more player off the board when they do get to pick.
All speculation at this point of course. :-)
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'm was in the Blackmon camp or RG3 if Holmgren has seen enough of Colt, but I've changed my mind. I feel like everyone has lost their patience and I'm beginning to lose mine as well. If we select either of those two guys, it usually takes a few years for them to play to their potential. I think the quickest way back to a great team is to continue to build the defense through the draft. On offense, we need instant results so we need a few free agents. If Holmgren likes Kolb or Flynn then we should go after one. We also need an instant upgrade at RT. Whomever the QB is needs that fixed now...not after a rookie develops. They also need a star at WR. Break the bank for a top WR now so that Glittle can move to #2. I wouldn't mind DeSean and he might come cheaper because of character issues. Ok, who do I draft? Morris Claiborne won't take 3 yrs to take over as the top cover corner. Draft him. Then I would target Don'ta Hightower, Courtney Upshaw, Quinton Coples. or Zach Brown at #22. Don't forget to sign D'Qwell and franchise Hillis even if he is overpaid. Convince Dawson that he can't leave now that it's time for the playoffs. We end up with a top 5 defense  We end up with an offense that doesn't average more than the Packers, but scores more than the other team.
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1. Luck
2. RG3
3. Kalil
4. Browns trade down with the Jags who jump the Rams to get Blackmon, browns get their 2nd.
5. Bucs will take Kirkpatrick or Claiborne (kirkpatric is a better fit for the tampa 2)
6. Rams will take one of those 2 corners
7. Browns take Trent Richardson
22. Thanks to the broken foot he will be there at 22. Ryan Tannehill
2a. Whitney Mercilus
2b. Alshon Jeffery option 1 and option 2 would be Dwight Jones
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I like Kirkpatrick....I wondered if the Bills would trade up and we could get him at the ten spot...
At 22...I like Mercilus...Kuechly...
I would like to see Minnifield here...
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There are some things to like about Tannehill, but he is really a very long term project.
From what I have seen and read, his positives would be that he has ideal type size, a good release, and decent short range accuracy.
His negatives seem to be his mechanics, footwork, accuracy down the field, and, obviously, he is very inexperienced.
I would expect that a team not needing a QB for 2 or 3 years would be the place for a guy like Tannehill to go. He will need to sit behind a QB solid enough to keep him on the bench rather than having him forced into games early in his career.
I see us as a rather poor fit.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Tannehill's broken foot drops him to 22, in other words behind Seattle, then he will fall to us in Round 2 because there are no teams after Seattle that need a QB badly enough to use their first pick on one. Sure, someone could leapfrog us in Round 2, but that seems more remote. I would never use No. 4 on him and would hesitate to use No. 22 on him. But a smart (pre-med, I think), guy with a great arm that could be THE guy in a couple of years? That would be fantastic at No. 37. And I might do it even if we have already signed Flynn at that point.
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Everything I have read says that Tannehill's arm is average.
I have also read a lot of reports that say that he will have a much longer road to travel to even make it to primary backup status than most QBs in this draft. He throws half as many INT as TD. That's worrisome. His yards/pass attempt is way below many of the upper tier QBs in this draft. I think that he looks like a huge project.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Against ranked teams this season (5 games) Tannehill's TD/INT is 13/9...and that includes a 6/1 against Baylor's not so stellar D
against decent (not even CFB elite) Ds like Okl. St., Arkansas, Oklahoma and Texas his ratio is 9 TDs to 11 INTs and his AVG/pass were 6.6, 7.1, 6.0, 4.6 and 4.6
There's a lot to like with Tannehil...but most of that is simply "projection"...if he can't solve above AVG College Ds he's going to fail worse than Gabbert if thrown in day 1
I'm torn on Tannehill...I see the upside left due to inexperience but the NFL isn't a good place "to grow", your game HAS TO BE somewhat more polished to get even developmental time in this league... then I see the numbers, read that he lost out in camp battle against Jerrod Johnson of all QBs which forced him to play WR....tough call, but right now I would not trade any other picks to secure him...if he's there at 22 or better 37...well maybe you roll the dice, preferably signing a stop gap FA vet like Campbell to battle Colt so he can sit and learn for 1-2 seasons as the #3 QB
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If the NFL had a Minor League, or a "D" League, then I would be all for a guy like Tannehill ...... but without that avenue for him to get the on field experience that e needs, I would be worried about taking him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Everything I have read says that Tannehill's arm is average. I have also read a lot of reports that say that he will have a much longer road to travel to even make it to primary backup status than most QBs in this draft. He throws half as many INT as TD. That's worrisome. His yards/pass attempt is way below many of the upper tier QBs in this draft. I think that he looks like a huge project.
I dont know what you are reading but anyone that says Tannehill has an average arm doesn't have a freaking clue. He also has GREAT footwork. So whomever you read for scouting reports are probably named joe and from akron.
The reason his TD ratio is lower because they did actually run the football. His average per attempt is lower than most because they run this same offense. Look he had games this year where he would leave with a less than 60% completion percentage and he would have less than 5 passes that did not hit the receiver in the hands.
These gimmicky offenses produce inflated numbers and inflated results. Tannehill has a year and a half in an NFL offense. RG3 has zero games in an NFL offense. Every quarterback has issues to resolve. The Great and Mighty Andrew Luck throws off his back foot and floats the ball far to often. Tannehill has better footwork than Luck.
I am not going to change anyone's opinion on the kid but he has a strong arm. He has worked in a pro offense. He has great footwork. He has NFL size and he is incredibly mobile. He can throw an out route as good as any QB in the NFL. You cant make that throw without a strong arm.
I see the guy as a franchise QB. Now before anyone rips me to bad, I rarely pimp first round QBs. The last first rounder I truly pimped was Jay Cutler. I have pimped mostly guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Johns Skelton. Cheap bargain priced QBs with a ton of upside.
I think the kid is a very low risk prospect that can come in and start day 1 and learn as he goes. He needs to learn to read defenses better. That is his weakness. It isn't a weak arm and poor footwork.
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Yea , yea yea : But can he play in snow and dos he Like Italian food ?
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Yea , yea yea : But can he play in snow and dos he Like Italian food ?
the italian food thing is extremely important... Good catch 
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we disagree on when to draft him, but I agree Tannehill has a strong arm.
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Just clicking
I keep asking myself one question when people say we should mortgage the future by trading picks this year and maybe next to move up to grab either Luck (fat chance) or RG3 (the perception of him varies, not as widely acknowledged as THE guy).
The question is,, why the rush? Look, even if we got Luck, who almost everybody says is THE answer, what we'd have to give up to get him may preclude us from being able to put guys around him that could make us a contender for a couple of years. (let's be honest, with few exception, we are woefully staffed on O)
So, why rush to grab him? or anyone that we can't just let fall to us?
If the only piece missing was a franchise QB, I would be right there with everyone about doing "WHATEVER" you have to do to get THAT guy...
But damn, we are a long way away.
My point is, Luck or RG3 aren't the only fish in the sea this year or next for that matter.
If we take our 1st round picks and our 2nd and 3rd as well, and add some needed talent on O, we can see for sure if Colt is or isn't the man. And we'd have the added benefit of matureing the picks we make this year. So that next year,, we may be in a position to move up to get that ONE piece of the puzzle.
And yeah, maybe a Tannehill is a winner.. dunno, and if he falls to us and we don't have mortgage anything to get him (other than whatever pick we use for him) then I'm good with that.
I'm just against mortgaging the future when we are so far away as a unit.
Just a thought
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Quote:
So, why rush to grab him? or anyone that we can't just let fall to us?
If the only piece missing was a franchise QB, I would be right there with everyone about doing "WHATEVER" you have to do to get THAT guy...
The reason some folks want to rush for Luck or RG3 is that we will (hopefully) not always be picking this high, and we will likely not always have two first round picks. At No. 4, we could get a great QB (potentially). If we show even modest improvement, we'll be drafting in the middle and those guys will be out of reach.
Of course, the fact is we CAN'T have Luck, and we don't know that RG3 is really going to be great. So the next options are to try to find a second tier guy later or a diamond in the rough late. And those two options do allow us to strenghten the team with quality guys at other positions.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Quote:
So, why rush to grab him? or anyone that we can't just let fall to us?
If the only piece missing was a franchise QB, I would be right there with everyone about doing "WHATEVER" you have to do to get THAT guy...
The reason some folks want to rush for Luck or RG3 is that we will (hopefully) not always be picking this high, and we will likely not always have two first round picks. At No. 4, we could get a great QB (potentially). If we show even modest improvement, we'll be drafting in the middle and those guys will be out of reach.
Of course, the fact is we CAN'T have Luck, and we don't know that RG3 is really going to be great. So the next options are to try to find a second tier guy later or a diamond in the rough late. And those two options do allow us to strenghten the team with quality guys at other positions.
Exactly.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Just clicking
I keep asking myself one question when people say we should mortgage the future by trading picks this year and maybe next to move up to grab either Luck (fat chance) or RG3 (the perception of him varies, not as widely acknowledged as THE guy).
The question is,, why the rush? Look, even if we got Luck, who almost everybody says is THE answer, what we'd have to give up to get him may preclude us from being able to put guys around him that could make us a contender for a couple of years. (let's be honest, with few exception, we are woefully staffed on O)
So, why rush to grab him? or anyone that we can't just let fall to us?
If the only piece missing was a franchise QB, I would be right there with everyone about doing "WHATEVER" you have to do to get THAT guy...
But damn, we are a long way away.
My point is, Luck or RG3 aren't the only fish in the sea this year or next for that matter.
If we take our 1st round picks and our 2nd and 3rd as well, and add some needed talent on O, we can see for sure if Colt is or isn't the man. And we'd have the added benefit of matureing the picks we make this year. So that next year,, we may be in a position to move up to get that ONE piece of the puzzle.
And yeah, maybe a Tannehill is a winner.. dunno, and if he falls to us and we don't have mortgage anything to get him (other than whatever pick we use for him) then I'm good with that.
I'm just against mortgaging the future when we are so far away as a unit.
Just a thought
I kind of agree with you. I would be perfectly OK with drafting RG3 if he's there at 4. I'm not OK with trading up to get him (although 10 years from now if he's a superstar, we'll all be ok with it) but right now he's just a prospect, and honestly I think if we are going to trade up, why not just push all your chips forward and go after Luck (if you can, takes two to tango)
I don't think it matters though because I think we can all agree that it's not like Heckert to give up a ton of picks to move up like that. I think they probably have a liking to RG3 (even though they are sending out signals that they aren't) but I think they'd rather just draft him at 4 if he's there, and if not, grab one of the other 3 or 4 elite prospects that are there (Blackmon, Kalil, Claiborne)
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Cleveland officially 4 and
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