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Mort just said he's coming out. Informing coach Bryles today.
Can I put this in the wrong/right thread... being right about today, but wrong about tomorrow. 
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Quote:
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Mort just said he's coming out. Informing coach Bryles today.
Can I put this in the wrong/right thread... being right about today, but wrong about tomorrow.
No that goes in the Overtoad saying two things, one is right, I'm right thread.
If I had to bet on a fence post colonoscopy candidate it'd be him! 
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Very true.
Well this helps our #4 pick as it has just become more valuable, so does the #2 and #3 of course. Still it helps us to perhaps get a big deal in a trade back, or the player we want (Blackmon is my choice, if he's there, then Claiborne) no matter (almost) who it is.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Would that make him a better initial prospect than Michael Vick? He had the legs and strong arm....but not the accuracy or understanding of the game.
He is not the runner that Vick was. Griffin has unbeatable speed, but Vick was a quick, talented runner with the ablity to make people miss. Vick also was a little stronger I think. I believe that as a passer Griffin is a superior prospect to Vick, and it's not close.
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Would that make him a better initial prospect than Michael Vick? He had the legs and strong arm....but not the accuracy or understanding of the game.
He is not the runner that Vick was. Griffin has unbeatable speed, but Vick was a quick, talented runner with the ablity to make people miss. Vick also was a little stronger I think. I believe that as a passer Griffin is a superior prospect to Vick, and it's not close.
Totally agree. I mean Vick was 100% lost and was getting by on ridiculous athleticism in Altanta. I think that shows you how good Andy Reid and his staff is to turn that guy around. Not only to get him to work harder, but to read defenses and stuff like that.
It doesn't take an NFL scout to see RG3 is way ahead with his passing game right now coming out of college than Vick was coming out of Tech.
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I believe that as a passer Griffin is a superior prospect to Vick, and it's not close.
I have heard this way too much to my liking recently and I believe it not to be true.
I've been somewhat of a draftnik for sometime now. Well before Vick started making plays at VT.
When he came into the draft he had (and still does) one of the best arms in draft history. A lot of people talk about rocket arms, frozen ropes etc...but God doesn't make 'em with any more ability to throw a beautiful tight spiral on a line than Vick.
RG3 and Vick are not in the same area code as it pertains to arm strength.
Just about everything else...intangibles, smarts, leadership, good guy
I'm with you there.
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You're right, nobody's arm is stronger than vick's. I just meant as a passer, RGIII is better now than Vick was coming out of college. RGIII does have a very strong arm but Nike isn't going to be making commercials with him throwing it out of the stadium.
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Ok then we're on the same page. If I absolutely had to win the first NFL game of each of their careers I'd pick RG3 too.
Not knowing what we all know about Vick now (because we don't about RG3) and compared the two as prospects Vick is the better prospect coming into the NFL.
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So, of the 20 starting qb's in the superbowl - according to your chart - 11 of them were not first round draft picks. Wow, that lays the ground work for drafting a first round qb, doesn't it? 
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The winners of the most Super Bowls would be Brady and Warner right? a 6th and undrafted Grocery Bagger.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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which is why using superbowl winner as the measuring stick is silly (team dynasty's not solely built on a QB skew statistics).
you have far greater odds of getting a franchise QB in the 1st round than anywhere else. however, you can get a franchise QB elsewhere. once the QB starts taking snaps people care more about how he does than where he was drafted (mostly).
best QBs in the NFL right now (not in order):
Rodgers - 1st
Brees - 2nd (1st pick of 2nd)
'healthy Peyton' - 1st
Brady - 6th
Rivers - 1st
Eli - 1st
Romo - UDFA
Stafford - 1st
Schaub - 2nd
Ben Roeth - 1st
6 1st round picks out of 10 QBs.
even the next level of guys:
Ryan - 1st
Cam - 1st
Alex Smith (this year at least) - 1st
Cutler - 1st
Vick - 1st
all 5 are 1st rounders. I wouldn't mind taking Alex Smith out of this group. Even if you do that, 10/14 of the top QBs currently in the NFL are 1st round picks.
not sure who else to add to this group. I wouldn't consider Hasselbeck (6th) there anymore and don't really consider Flacco(1st), Kolb(2nd), Moore(UDFA), Carson Palmer(1st), or Dalton (2nd) in it either.
#gmstrong
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interestingly, out of the 1st round QB's on your list. Only 4 of them were top ten picks. I don't have a point to make, just interesting.
Last edited by RocDawg; 01/10/12 07:39 PM.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Very true.
Well this helps our #4 pick as it has just become more valuable, so does the #2 and #3 of course. Still it helps us to perhaps get a big deal in a trade back, or the player we want (Blackmon is my choice, if he's there, then Claiborne) no matter (almost) who it is.
With the news Tannahill?(SP) suffered a major injury its a 2 QB derby now. Our value has dropped and St Louis and Minny have rose.
Now any team that wants RG3 needs to jump us to get him and I think someone will.
Pencil me in as saying I would take RG3 with our 4th pick but wouldnt trade up to get him for any reason with the cost of bidders going through the roof. Take Blackmon or the CB with the 4th pick.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I think it makes our pick more valuable ... not less.
However you look at it we will still be able to take at least one of (assuming Luck is gone at 1) Griffin, Kalil, Claiborne or Blackmon. if Griffin were gone then we have one less playmaker there and either one less piece to use as trade bait or one less weapon slide to us if someone else takes Griffin.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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sorry I was talking about it less valuable because teams wont want to move up and trade with us. Not in actual value of the player we could pick if we stay there.
I see the same as you, take Luck out of the equation and 1 of those other 4 will be there for us to select if we dont trade down.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I have watched enough of this guy to notice some serious flaws. Bad pocket awareness, Happy feet, Seriously only has one read..watch this video as it is just a sample. Buyer Beware! Overrated
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Please, for the love of God, let someone else over pay for this kid. With our chances at moving up and getting Luck quickly approaching zero, I really REALLY hope someone like Miami or Washington works out a trade with St Louis at #2 to move up and take RG3 ahead of us. Let's hope H&H pump up how much we love RG3 to make it happen.
That would allow Kalil to fall to Minnesota at #3 and then we draft Justin Blackmon at #4. I would turn that card in so fast, Roger Goodell's head would spin.
Of course, now that I say that St Louis is going to stay put at #2 and just take Blackmon. Would someone move up to #3 with Minny to nab RG3 in front of us?
Any way you slice it, I want one of Luck or Blackmon with our 1st pick. If they both go in the top 3 (pretty likely at this point barring the above trade) then I'm actively looking to trade down. Last resort is to draft either Claiborne or Kalil, whichever falls to us...which isn't a bad consolation prize and significantly better than drafting RG3 or Trent Richardson IMO.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Just heard on the radio he is entering the draft. Found a link: Link
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Quote:
which is why using superbowl winner as the measuring stick is silly
Using success as a measuring stick is silly?
To paraphrase our very own Ballpeen: "Anything less than a Super Bowl is a failed season"
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(team dynasty's not solely built on a QB skew statistics).
Hmmmm... I think that's the whole point!!!! Build a dynasty, not a one-hit wonder.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm glad he's entering..
If he falls to us.. I want him. I do NOT want to trade up for him though.
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I don't want to trade up for ANYONE.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I'm glad he's entering..
If he falls to us.. I want him. I do NOT want to trade up for him though.
This...Then this...Purps...
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I don't want to trade up for ANYONE.
U guys make zero sense...
Look...IF we do our diligence and determine that Griffin IS IN FACT capable of being the Franchise Type QB we want...U go get him...Don't wait till he falls in your lap simply because there may just be several teams willing to go to 2 to get em'...DO NOT WAIT...
U miss a golden opportunity if u play that game...
It blows my mind how much alot of people UNDER-VALUE the significance of a QB in the NFL...
Go Browns!!!
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No, I make plenty of sense - you just don't want to even give a nod of understanding to this point of view.
This team couldn't possibly have more holes if you shot it up with a Thompson SMG.... we need LOTS of players, and trading up means trading away potential upgrades at other positions.
I am in no way in favor of that for any single player.
I love Phil Taylor, but I wasn't happy about trading up for him, either.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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it's more about sample size and the fact that there are more variables in it.
you want to have as many chances at a Superbowl as possible so that you have the best odds at winning one. obviously, franchise QB is part of that equation. but, if you are looking at where to get one, just looking at the superbowl winners is such a small sample size that it doesn't give you enough depth into how to find yours.
#gmstrong
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No, I make plenty of sense - you just don't want to even give a nod of understanding to this point of view.
This team couldn't possibly have more holes if you shot it up with a Thompson SMG.... we need LOTS of players, and trading up means trading away potential upgrades at other positions.
I am in no way in favor of that for any single player.
I love Phil Taylor, but I wasn't happy about trading up for him, either.
U guys r setting yourselves up for some major draft day misery...
I can hear the conversation between Holmgre/Heckert/Shurmer now...
"We have RGIII rated our #2 overall on our board...What should we do?"...And Homie says Save our 22nd pick...We need it...lmao...
IF we think RGIII can be the QB going forward we WILL make the attempt to make the move...Who cares about a 22 pick...We didn't have it anyway cept for the trade...
There's TWO teams ahead of us that would LOVE to move to 4 and still get who they want outta Blackmon/Kalil and Claiborne...I'd bet the house we could get to 2 for our 4 and 22 and one of those 4ths...ANOTHER pick we didn't have till the trade...We spend virtually NOTHING...
And still have all our 2nd/3rd/4th/5th/6th picks...
I actually LOVE that deal now that I c it in writing...IF and only if we see Griffin as our future...
Go Browns!!!
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The overall goal is to win championships, not check off items on a shopping list.... and the best way to win championships is, and has always been, to have as complete a team as you can.
You don't readily build that by giving away all of your shots at top talent for a couple of years.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So can we change the thread title now?  On a scale of 1 to 10, how surprised would you all be if RG3 fell in the draft like Quinn did. I'm not saying ALL the way to our 2nd pick, but could he possibly fall out of the top ten . . . ? The Skins could end up paying out the nose for a QB in free agency . . . Seattle maybe?
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hey, we agree here. I am against trading up (and also think that's the only way to get RGIII). I was just defining one small portion of that championship foundation.
it's one of the reasons I want to see us get Flynn (in FA). Luck will be gone, RGIII will likely be gone (more likely if we need him because there will be more pressure on MIA and Wash to trade up), and there are no other QBs I would consider taking in the 1st round of this draft.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
So can we change the thread title now?
On a scale of 1 to 10, how surprised would you all be if RG3 fell in the draft like Quinn did. I'm not saying ALL the way to our 2nd pick, but could he possibly fall out of the top ten . . . ? The Skins could end up paying out the nose for a QB in free agency . . . Seattle maybe?
I think the possabilities of this happening are good. I think the closer we get to draft day and after Scouts do their research the guy falls ala Quinn and Clausen. So I won't be surprised at all. I can see someone taking him in the teens to 20s. The only problem is that this is a very thin QB class outside of Luck. Think How when Jamarcus Russel and Quinn came out. I didn't think much of either and thought they were overhyped. Can't say I was wrong.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/11/12 11:27 AM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
The overall goal is to win championships, not check off items on a shopping list.... and the best way to win championships is, and has always been, to have as complete a team as you can.
You don't readily build that by giving away all of your shots at top talent for a couple of years.
I generally agree. However, i feel QB is a different animal.
If we feel Griffin is the guy, then we have to go get him. Washington or Miami will.
We have the ability to do so.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked one little bit.
I don't believe that we'll even look at him and I think that the only way someone trades up for him is if they are sold on him AND think that someone else is trying to trade up for him.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If we feel Griffin is the guy, then we have to go get him. Washington or Miami will.
We have the ability to do so.
Yeppers...
Now look at this...Walters updated mock...And look what it takes to move to #2 from #6...
#2---Washington Redskins---RGIII---QB---Baylor
TRADE!!! I've never predicted a trade in my mocks prior to this because deals seldom occurred in the top five. With the new CBA, however, there's a much greater chance that a transaction like this could happen.
I just don't see Robert Griffin falling to No. 4, given how many teams have a huge need at quarterback. The Redskins, Browns, Seahawks, Dolphins and maybe even the Jaguars would all consider moving up for him. With so much demand for Griffin, the Rams would be absolutely insane not to accept the best offer, especially given how many needs they have.
Of the teams I listed, Washington is most likely to move up for Griffin if it can't acquire Peyton Manning. Daniel Snyder loves making splash moves in the offseason, and there's no doubt that he would be willing to deal tons of draft picks for the right to acquire a franchise quarterback - something he's never had while owning the Redskins.
To move up to No. 2, Snyder will have to surrender No. 6 overall selection, next year's first-round pick and perhaps a third-rounder. Maybe the Rams can get more from someone else, but I think that's pretty fair.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php
Now tell me we couldn't go from 4 to 2 for our 22nd pick and one of our 4th's...2 picks of which we wouldn't have anyway if not for Atlanta...
Bottom Line...IF WE LIKE HIM HE IS OURS AT #2...And costs us virtually NOTHING!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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We might not even have to give more then the 22nd pick.
A pick this year is more valuable then a pick next year IMO.
If RGIII is the target, we move up.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We might not even have to give more then the 22nd pick.
A pick this year is more valuable then a pick next year IMO.
If RGIII is the target, we move up.
I'm in complete agreement with you and DnD. IF the powers that be think he's good enough be our franchise guy, I don't think they'll hesitate to move up to #2 for him because if we don't, someone else will. It's worth giving our 22 and I think it's a deal too good to pass up for St. Louis.. only dropping 2 slots and getting another 1st rounder this year would be sweet for them. They can take Blackmon or Kalil, both of which fill major needs.
I'd have no problem with that at all... AS LONG AS RG3 fulfills his potential it'd be totally worth it.
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If RG3 was really good I'd be all for it.
He's not really good though and is certainly not the prospect people are hyping him to be.
Other than the obvious things that stand out to me on the field....
Does it bother anyone else that this guy was considered a late 3rd round or later prospect just a year ago?
This lesson has been learned the hard way over and over and over.
I'm honestly not even concerned that we consider RG3 at #4 or anywhere near there. Heckert won't make that mistake.
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Hey now Heldawg, let's not let facts get in the way of this discussion. Don't you know everybody wants a player that is "exciting", has "hype" and "potential" ? One year wonder from a small school (without great win results), with inflated #s in a flukey offensive scheme, with a similar skill set as multiple other failed draft picks be damned. WE GOTTA GET THIS GUY! 
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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One year wonder from a small school (without great win results),
So he was voted freshman of the year in the Big 12 in 2008.. was injured in 2009, and had great numbers in 2010 and 2011.. which one of those years is his "wonder year"? He had better career numbers at his small school than Big Ben had at his, despite playing legitimate D1 competition...
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with inflated #s in a flukey offensive scheme
What exactly is "flukey" about it?
And what skill set does he share with other failed draft picks?
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
One year wonder from a small school (without great win results),
So he was voted freshman of the year in the Big 12 in 2008.. was injured in 2009, and had great numbers in 2010 and 2011.. which one of those years is his "wonder year"? He had better career numbers at his small school than Big Ben had at his, despite playing legitimate D1 competition...
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with inflated #s in a flukey offensive scheme
What exactly is "flukey" about it?
And what skill set does he share with other failed draft picks?
I don't mean to jump in here DC but I think he is referring to the numbers the QB's in a Art Briles or Mike Leach coached team put up(Art Briles learned under Leach). The University of Houston and Texas Tech Offense so to speak. These QB's normally carry warning labels and Cautions with them when drafted. Guys like Graham Harrel, David Klingler(remember how great his arm was)lol, Case Keenum, (Kevin Kolb played for Briles), Jeff Kingsbury..etc. Could be wrong though.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Prospects move up and down over the course of a year (or from Junior to Senior year) all the time.
It's not like he lucked into it ..... or had 1 good game that somehow jumped his value. He was great all year long. He took Baylor to their best year in God knows how long. He wasn't a guy who suddenly bumped his value way up with a workout or all star game either. He just worked, and did a whole lot of good things. he went from a solid Sophomore year to an exceptional Junior year. Last year he threw for 3500 yards, 67% completion, 7.71 yards/attempt, 22 TD and 8 INT. It wasn't like he did nothing. Then this year he improved dramatically on everything. He went to 72% completion rate. He threw for almost 4300 yards. He threw 37 TD against only 6 INT. His average yards/attempt was a staggering 10.68.
His average yards/attempt is amazing. I cannot remember a single QB who threw for that kind of yardage who had similar success in that department. Cam Newton finished up his Junior season at 10.2 yards/attempt and 30 TD to 7 INT.
I think that there is a lot to like about RG3, and I have maintained all along that if you have a shot at a guy who could be a franchise type QB I think you have to take it. The position is just too damn important, and way too hard to fill. If we take a shot and miss, then we miss, but I think there is more than enough there to warrant taking that shot this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) RG3 still not sure about NFL draft
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