Quote: Prospects move up and down over the course of a year (or from Junior to Senior year) all the time.
It's not like he lucked into it ..... or had 1 good game that somehow jumped his value. He was great all year long. He took Baylor to their best year in God knows how long. He wasn't a guy who suddenly bumped his value way up with a workout or all star game either. He just worked, and did a whole lot of good things. he went from a solid Sophomore year to an exceptional Junior year. Last year he threw for 3500 yards, 67% completion, 7.71 yards/attempt, 22 TD and 8 INT. It wasn't like he did nothing. Then this year he improved dramatically on everything. He went to 72% completion rate. He threw for almost 4300 yards. He threw 37 TD against only 6 INT. His average yards/attempt was a staggering 10.68.
His average yards/attempt is amazing. I cannot remember a single QB who threw for that kind of yardage who had similar success in that department. Cam Newton finished up his Junior season at 10.2 yards/attempt and 30 TD to 7 INT.
I can and he is in this draft and plays in the same Offense for the College Griffin originally signed intent with. As a matter of fact almost every QB in that offense has those numbers under Briles or Leach and usually better. But Case Keenum is who I am referring to in this years draft. This year alone Keenum threw for 5,631 yards completed 71% of his passes at a 9.34 yard clip. 48 TD's and only 5 interceptions. sacked only 17 times and had a rating of 174. Just saying.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I only watched one Oregon game (early in the season) but the broadcast happened to show a profile of him with interviews and stuff. About how he was a quiet guy and didn't expect to be a QB in high school or his coach didn't want him to be a QB or something like that... he ended up being terrific in high school at the position and went on to Oregon. Seemed like a good kid and I wanted to see him do well but I remember his accuracy not being that good and not seeing him throw any deep balls. I wasn't impressed.
And I want to reiterate, since we're talking about athleticism again, that I like Griffin for his passing ability and how he shows a feel for the game (putting passes in good spots, not unnecessarily throwing too hard, keeping eyes downfield while avoiding the rush, strong arm when needed, deep touch, etc.) I don't want him running for 600-800 yards in a season if he's our QB. I want him behind the LOS putting the ball on our wideouts.
Quote: Prospects move up and down over the course of a year (or from Junior to Senior year) all the time.
It's not like he lucked into it ..... or had 1 good game that somehow jumped his value. He was great all year long. He took Baylor to their best year in God knows how long. He wasn't a guy who suddenly bumped his value way up with a workout or all star game either. He just worked, and did a whole lot of good things. he went from a solid Sophomore year to an exceptional Junior year. Last year he threw for 3500 yards, 67% completion, 7.71 yards/attempt, 22 TD and 8 INT. It wasn't like he did nothing. Then this year he improved dramatically on everything. He went to 72% completion rate. He threw for almost 4300 yards. He threw 37 TD against only 6 INT. His average yards/attempt was a staggering 10.68.
His average yards/attempt is amazing. I cannot remember a single QB who threw for that kind of yardage who had similar success in that department. Cam Newton finished up his Junior season at 10.2 yards/attempt and 30 TD to 7 INT.
I can and he is in this draft and plays in the same Offense for the College Griffin originally signed intent with. As a matter of fact almost every QB in that offense has those numbers under Briles or Leach and usually better. But Case Keenum is who I am referring to in this years draft. This year alone Keenum threw for 5,631 yards completed 71% of his passes at a 9.34 yard clip. 48 TD's and only 5 interceptions. sacked only 17 times and had a rating of 174. Just saying.
Use stats all you want, Keenum doesn't come close to having the same type of arm that Griffin has. Nor does he have the ability to use his legs like Griffin when things go to hell in the pocket.
Quote: Prospects move up and down over the course of a year (or from Junior to Senior year) all the time.
It's not like he lucked into it ..... or had 1 good game that somehow jumped his value. He was great all year long. He took Baylor to their best year in God knows how long. He wasn't a guy who suddenly bumped his value way up with a workout or all star game either. He just worked, and did a whole lot of good things. he went from a solid Sophomore year to an exceptional Junior year. Last year he threw for 3500 yards, 67% completion, 7.71 yards/attempt, 22 TD and 8 INT. It wasn't like he did nothing. Then this year he improved dramatically on everything. He went to 72% completion rate. He threw for almost 4300 yards. He threw 37 TD against only 6 INT. His average yards/attempt was a staggering 10.68.
His average yards/attempt is amazing. I cannot remember a single QB who threw for that kind of yardage who had similar success in that department. Cam Newton finished up his Junior season at 10.2 yards/attempt and 30 TD to 7 INT.
I can and he is in this draft and plays in the same Offense for the College Griffin originally signed intent with. As a matter of fact almost every QB in that offense has those numbers under Briles or Leach and usually better. But Case Keenum is who I am referring to in this years draft. This year alone Keenum threw for 5,631 yards completed 71% of his passes at a 9.34 yard clip. 48 TD's and only 5 interceptions. sacked only 17 times and had a rating of 174. Just saying.
Use stats all you want, Keenum doesn't come close to having the same type of arm that Griffin has. Nor does he have the ability to use his legs like Griffin when things go to hell in the pocket.
Keenum is basically a Colt McCoy clone.
Wow..Relax. I just replied to the comment in bold. Yeah, Griffins arm is more like David Klinglers. The idea is not to have the pocket go to hell just so you know.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I'm sorry, did you get the feeling that I posted that with clinch-fist, banging on the table?
The Truth is that RG3 is unconventional, but his athletic ability, arm and accuracy all more than make up for everything.
Usually, RG3 guys turn me off, but after seeing different QB's succeed, I believe RG3 is a QB that fits the "new" NFL like a glove.
Edit: And the pocket is going to go to hell sometimes. To think you can make the pocket perfect is a fallacy. QB's HAVE to make throws under pressure. You cannot get an O-Line that will block forever, especially against teams like the Ravens and Steelers.
I'm sorry, did you get the feeling that I posted that with clinch-fist, banging on the table?
The Truth is that RG3 is unconventional, but his athletic ability, arm and accuracy all more than make up for everything.
Usually, RG3 guys turn me off, but after seeing different QB's succeed, I believe RG3 is a QB that fits the "new" NFL like a glove.
Edit: And the pocket is going to go to hell sometimes. To think you can make the pocket perfect is a fallacy. QB's HAVE to make throws under pressure. You cannot get an O-Line that will block forever, especially against teams like the Ravens and Steelers.
It's all good! I just have serious reservations about the guy for many different reasons. I have stated them and feel confident in the research I have done regarding the Coach(Briles and Leach), the system, the QB's that have played in the system and the success of those QB's have had under them and how it translated or not to the NFL. We just differ on our opinions.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I love RG3's game, and I expect him to be very successful in the NFL. He's a lot like Michael Vick 2010, but the difference is that he has a good head on his shoulders and always looks downfield to make a pass as opposed to running 50% of the time. He's a pass-first mobile QB who can run if need be, and I think that will work in Shurmur's system. It may require some adjustment, but nothing that would preclude me from thinking he couldn't fit on the Browns.
Another thing that's great about RG3 is that all accounts of him in the social spotlight are that he's a clean, smart, well rounded student who's not going to end up partying all night on weekends like Vince Young. The dude is having trouble declaring for the draft right now because he wants to go to law school, not win a NCAA championship. He's a very intelligent guy, and will be able to analyze defenses accordingly in the NFL.
Quote: For all the people who really like RG3.....
What do you think of Darron Thomas - QB Oregon?
Because I see a similar player, similar arm strength, similar build, similar athleticism.
Massive difference in accuracy and ability to run a passing offense.
If Darron Thomas couldn't run, he'd be awful. If RG3 couldn't run, he'd be a Drew Brees style prospect.
I agree. I don't know if I would compare RG3 to Brees .... but I think that he could potentially be that kind of guy. I think that Thomas gets by with his running ability a lot more than RG3 does. He's also never broken 3000 yards passing. he's never been "the" offense. I don't think that Thomas has the accuracy as far as ball placement that RG3 does, and he definitely doesn't have the deep pass accuracy RG3 does.
I think that Thomas is the kind of QB people worry about when they talk about a spread type QB coming into the NFL. I think that RG3 can be successful in a WCO or even a New England style offense because of his skills passing the ball.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
JK, I still think we dont need to make a move at all. St Louis isnt moving down below us unless someone offers up a boat load of picks to the tune of a 1st this year and next plus a 2nd this year and probably more. The reason they know they have a top 2 player sitting in their lap why move down?
Now in my eyes the reason not to move up. If some team is willling to give up all that they are going to ask for move from us takes me totally out of the equation. St Louis at that point will either have to move down and miss their guy who ever that guy is. Minnesota is the team that scares me the most because for them a move down to 6 is only 3 spots and they can get 2 firsts and perhaps a player they like as well. Neither St Louis nor Minny are taking QB. They know if they trade with another team below us we are not going to take a QB and that takes another player off the board that they are interested in.
Minny may think that the OT falls so top of the draft looks like Luck Blackmon RG3 Us (not sure who we would take Im guessing the CB)
Hence the comment you guys wouldnt mind if we took defense would you?
So once again I stand pat let some other team give up a couple years of picks and more while we continue to get better and still feel that RG3 falls to us at 4 if H&H like him because I dont think either St Louis or Minny like the prospect of us taking their player at #4.
All IMHO
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
WACO, Texas -- Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffin III will try the NFL. Griffin made it official Wednesday, announcing that he's bypassing his senior season at Baylor to apply for entry into the NFL draft after a record-breaking college career.
Coach Art Briles' 'diverse' attack leaves opponents scratching their heads and its UH proponents a degree of freedom to improvise without a playbook No-name offense hard to pin down
MICHAEL MURPHY, Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Published 05:30 a.m., Thursday, October 4, 2007
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Houston coach Art Briles has quite the imagination on offense, which usually keeps opponents guessing. Photo: ASSOCIATED PRESS, BILL HABER / HC
This week it is Alabama coach Nick Saban who is on the hot seat.
Saban is just the latest opposing coach who has had to stand up at a news conference and attempt to describe the frenetic, yardage-eating offense that Houston coach Art Briles is bringing to Tuscaloosa, Ala., for Saturday's game at Bryant-Denny Stadium.
Like most other coaches, Saban doesn't exactly know how to pin down the Cougars' offense. He knows what it's not. It's not the Run-and-Shoot. It's not the veer. It's not the Texas Tech spread. And it's not something he has seen, even in the mighty Southeastern Conference.
Saban finally found the one word that probably perhaps best describes UH's offense: diverse.
"Houston I think is ... probably one of the best offensive teams that we've played," he said. "They're very diverse in terms of what they do on offense, a little different than what a lot of people do. They're one of the top offensive teams in the country."
Always evolving Even Briles has a hard time explaining exactly what it is the Cougars are doing, but he can give you a timeline — one that has yet to be completed since the offense remains a work in progress — that describes how it got to this point. When he took his first head coaching gig at Hamlin in 1984, Briles ran the wishbone. But he kept adding and subtracting until he came up with his own offense, which still has no name.
That's actually the best way to describe it — the "no" offense.
No huddle. No playbook. No name. No explanation given.
Only now we're asking for an explanation.
"I grew up a veer guy," Briles said. "Then I ran the wishbone when I first got into coaching. At my first head coaching job, in 1984, we went 13-0-1, and I thought at the time, 'This is all right. But if I'm ever going to be able to advance schematically offensively, we're going to have to spread it out and go shotgun.'
"In 1985, I started going shotgun, spreading it out with one back. As the years progressed, I just kept adding things and deleting some, too. I hate to say that it's my own inception, but honestly it is.
"I never really patterned it after anybody else. It's something that we think makes us unique, and that's what we like about it."
Briles' no-name offense incorporates a quick-strike passing game with the option, all run out of the shotgun. When teams attempt to adjust to the pass, along comes a surgical running game in which obscenely fast players like Anthony Alridge buzz through the defense. And if you load up to stop the run, a work-the-edge passing game suddenly appears.
"This is a sick, sick offense," Alridge said. "Coach Briles has the sickest mind that I have ever seen in my life. I don't understand how he comes up with some of the things that he comes up with, but if you're an offensive player, you've got to love this offense. If you're a running back, you get the ball. If you're a receiver, you get the ball. Everyone gets the ball."
Piling up the numbers Everyone with speed, that is, because it's designed with one thing in mind — get extremely fast players in space, get them the ball, and let them go. It's all about freedom, said former quarterback Kevin Kolb, now with the Philadelphia Eagles. "Coach Briles does a good job of mixing structure with the freedom to play," said Kolb, who amassed a school-record 12,964 passing yards and 85 touchdowns during his four years at the helm of this offense. "He wants you to play fearlessly, so he does a good job of finding that fine line, letting the kids do what they do naturally, but also having structure behind it in order to have a successful offense."
And it has been quite successful.
Last season, the Cougars had the nation's sixth-ranked offense, piling up 439.9 yards per game. It has produced 1,000-yard rushers (Anthony Evans in 2003 and Ryan Gilbert in 2005) and 1,000-yard receivers (Brandon Middleton in 2003 and Vincent Marshall in 2004).
Any further information can be found in the record book. But don't ask to see a playbook, because one doesn't exist. Briles, a "visual learner," insists his players pick up the offense the same way.
The learning curve "That's why the redshirt year is very important here, especially on offense," senior wide receiver Donnie Avery said. "You go against the first team (defense) all the time (during a redshirt year), so every day is like going out there and playing a game. "All that repetition teaches you the offense. It has to, because you can't sit down and study a playbook. There is no playbook, so you have to just go out there and keep running those same plays over and over again."
When it's clicking, the offense is a wonder. Even alternating unproven quarterbacks Case Keenum and Blake Joseph, the Cougars are averaging 483.5 yards and 33.5 points per game.
"It's a take-what-the-defense-gives-you kind of offense, which is great, because theoretically there are always going to be yards out there for you to take," senior offensive lineman Jeff Akeroyd said. "It's a fun offense to play in, and it's a productive offense to play in.
"Whenever we do it right, it'll work. But it's up to us to do it right."
I think Briles is an amazing Coach, but If you go back and look at the History of his QB's You might understand what I say about Griffin. He doesn't even have a playbook. Briles is a winner but he is not coaching this offense in the NFL and RG3 will have so much to learn. Much of the problems guys like Kolb and Klingler etc have or had is going from a Gimmick no playbook spread one read offense to trying to understand different Defenses and playbooks and different coverage schemes. You know how some of you say the QB makes the Offense..well in this One Briles makes the QB..It doesn't matter who it is in this offense they put up gaudy gaudy numbers.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: ... but he could just as easily NOT be. That's the conundrum with this guy. Plenty of risk, IMO.
There's risk in every single quarterback that comes out... I feel like everytime a black QB comes out that is highly touted everyone goes "THERES A LOT OF RISK!"
There was a lot of risk with every single top ranked qb in the past 10 years, no such thing as a sure bet.
Quote: For all the people who really like RG3.....
What do you think of Darron Thomas - QB Oregon?
Because I see a similar player, similar arm strength, similar build, similar athleticism.
Massive difference in accuracy and ability to run a passing offense.
If Darron Thomas couldn't run, he'd be awful. If RG3 couldn't run, he'd be a Drew Brees style prospect.
But you're saying more like the Brees that was coming out of Purdue, not the Brees in New Orleans right now. Right.
Because there was a reason Brees wasn't drafted until the 2nd round and all but went unwanted in free agency.
You mean like the fact that his elbow was messed up? I advise you to go look at his stats his last couple of years at San Diego cause it sure as hell wasn't his on the field performance for why he had a limited amount of people after him in FA.
Curious as to why you made it about a black quarterback?
In the last few years the only controversial black QB at the time has been Griffin for the reasons listed (size, transition to offense, accuracy) whereas there have been those same questions about other prospects as well - McCoy (size) - Tebow (transition to offense, accuracy/throwing) - Jamarcus wasn't a sure thing, but he was definitely a lot "surer" if memory serves correct. - However - I might be wrong about him ... I wasn't as much of a draft-tracker back then. I don't think Vince had many questions either - obviously on how the talent translated but he was set to be a top pick.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Quote: ... but he could just as easily NOT be. That's the conundrum with this guy. Plenty of risk, IMO.
There's risk in every single quarterback that comes out... I feel like everytime a black QB comes out that is highly touted everyone goes "THERES A LOT OF RISK!"
There was a lot of risk with every single top ranked qb in the past 10 years, no such thing as a sure bet.
Being Black has nothing to do with the risks behind taking him. His game being a runner at 6'1 and 205, the fact that his offense is built to put up gaudy numbers, the lack of reads he has to make, not having to learn a playbook or read a defense and that it is a free for all offense do.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Being Black has nothing to do with the risks behind taking him. His game being a runner at 6'1 and 205, the fact that his offense is built to put up gaudy numbers, the lack of reads he has to make, not having to learn a playbook or read a defense and that it is a free for all offense do.
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Well, his game isn't being a runner. He's just fast.
Isn't every offense built to put up gaudy numbers?
How do you know what reads he had to make?
What in the world do you mean he didn't have to learn the playbook?
and to the earlier poster who said accuracy was a question with him, he had the second-highest completion percentage in the FBS, and he threw deep as often as anyone.
I do find it funny... All the posters on here who call out specific incorrect things that they think are negatives about griffin when it's clear they've seen him play max one game.
Quote: I do find it funny... All the posters on here who call out specific incorrect things that they think are negatives about griffin when it's clear they've seen him play max one game.
Why do you find it funny ? you are saying you know that all the positive things you say about him are right on.. you must have seen him play every game he has played...is that correct ?
I find it funny that the Pro scouts who do this for a living don't agree 100% with you.
Quote: Thanks for the advisement. I'm aware of his arm situation when he became a free agent.
I was simply asking him about which Brees he was referring to. The pre-draft, the Chargers Brees or Saints Brees.
Yes and the reason he went "all but unwanted in free agency" as you put it, was because of an injury, not a skill reason... And thus has absolutely no point in this argument.
No, not all... But I did watch six full games of baylor's this year and snippets of a few others. When I see people say his accuracy or arm strength are weaknesses as though those are accepted facts, I find it laughable because it's so clearly wrong. The statement about not having to learn a playbook? What? Taking off too quickly? If anything, he does the opposite.
Please find me these scouting reports from a reputable scout that mention any of these things.
Quote: Being Black has nothing to do with the risks behind taking him. His game being a runner at 6'1 and 205, the fact that his offense is built to put up gaudy numbers, the lack of reads he has to make, not having to learn a playbook or read a defense and that it is a free for all offense do.
Well, his game isn't being a runner. He's just fast.
Isn't every offense built to put up gaudy numbers?
How do you know what reads he had to make?
What in the world do you mean he didn't have to learn the playbook?
and to the earlier poster who said accuracy was a question with him, he had the second-highest completion percentage in the FBS, and he threw deep as often as anyone.
I do find it funny... All the posters on here who call out specific incorrect things that they think are negatives about griffin when it's clear they've seen him play max one game.
There is nothing I said that is untrue. I wouldn't want to take the huge risks that come with him with our first pick for every reason I stated. He had the second highest completion percentage in College football..so Should we strive for the highest one in Case Keenum who could be had in the lower rounds? The guy has huge risks that need to be considered, maybe you don't like that but it's true. Do you just read what you want because every question you asked is answered in the things I posted above. I have laid out the history of Briles, his offense, the QB's that strive in it, articles stating there is no playbook and anything else you asked. I didn't just make this up. Like I said if he stayed at the University of Houston like he originally signed intent to play at under Coach Briles. Let's say Briles never left and even if he did beat out Keenum and posted close to Keenums numbers do you think he would be even thought of at the top of the draft? I don't. I have watched Baylor play. Once again, nothing I have stated is untrue.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I don't get to see him play...heck most of the guys in the Draft I don't... I do rely on reading from experts..( i hope ) lol... I remember when Archie Griffin won 2 Heisman and went to the Bengals as the 24th overall...
He really didn't do so well in Cinnci...that's a good thing thou
So I have never been that Impressed with the draft...but that's Pro Sports....
As far as finding you the reputable scouting reports that mention this....What do you consider reputable? I would appreciate a good source to go to read...
Quote: I don't think those are the same thing. What do most people here think?
I can't speak for anyone but myself....I think it's the same....And the reason for that..is the player is making something happen... by running the ball..or by throwing the ball...
I really don't want to bring this up...But i saw this during the Denver / Pittsburgh game.....
Quote: He's not a runner, he's a passer that can run, huge difference.
How about a runner who can pass...is that the same as a passer who can run ?
It is the difference between the predominant aspect of the particular QB.
Some QBs will hang in and make a play through the air. Others will almost immediately break the pocket and run.
While RG3 will run if necessary, he is mainly a passing QB. Others, while being willing to pass, are mainly running QBs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I feel like everytime a black QB comes out that is highly touted everyone goes "THERES A LOT OF RISK!"
Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. Don't even go there. It has everything to do with his experience, the system he played in, the teams he played against, etc. There's plenty to like about RGIII, but there's just enough to question to cause one to pause when you're thinking about taking him at #4.
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Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. Don't even go there. It has everything to do with his experience, the system he played in, the teams he played against, etc. There's plenty to like about RGIII, but there's just enough to question to cause one to pause when you're thinking about taking him at #4.