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we trade our #4 pick or draft RG3 and trade to the Cards. get Peterson, their #1
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(sign Hillis).
I love how you throw this in at the end even though it has nothing to do with anything in the post. You can't go one post without beating one of your tired points into the ground. Where is the part where we should have traded Shaun Rogers instead of cutting him or the one where Phil Taylor is garbage?
I will beat that horse as often as I like yet I agree he is a dead horse and is gone. I listened on the web to the latest GM interview and he danced around Hillis. Point blank asked he danced again how they were interested in other free agents on the team as well.
It is painfully obvious Hillis is gone. In the same interview the truly mediocre Hardesty was spoken of in "glowing" terms. Glad to see delusion is still rife in berea.
As for the Topic, the cards know they blew it again at QB and Know they wasted picks to get this mediocrity and it is going to cost them to rid themselves of the contract given to Kolb. They may have to part with a major player. if not Peterson maybe Beanie Wells since we are dumping Hillis, their #1, and Holmgren agrees to split the contract with the Cards.
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Where do you come up with these crazy scenarios?
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As for the Topic, the cards know they blew it again at QB and Know they wasted picks to get this mediocrity and it is going to cost them to rid themselves of the contract given to Kolb. They may have to part with a major player. if not Peterson maybe Beanie Wells since we are dumping Hillis, their #1, and Holmgren agrees to split the contract with the Cards.
Football contracts....they do not work quite the way you think they do....
~Lyuokdea
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Why not trade our #4 pick straight up for Aldon Smith and let the 49ers draft RG3?
We should nicely ask the Colts to give us the #1 overall pick for Oneil Cousins
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As for the Topic, the cards know they blew it again at QB and Know they wasted picks to get this mediocrity and it is going to cost them to rid themselves of the contract given to Kolb. They may have to part with a major player. if not Peterson maybe Beanie Wells since we are dumping Hillis, their #1, and Holmgren agrees to split the contract with the Cards.
 What? Do you know anything about Kolb's contract (bonuses, salary each year?) or is this coming out of your behind?
This one just makes me chuckle, i'm so confused. Split a contract? hehe. You've gotta be kidding me
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He apparently believes football contracts work like baseball contracts - where the money is guaranteed, there is no salary cap, and money can be exchanged between teams almost freely.
~Lyuokdea
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Grossi Suggests ....isn't that enough to stop reading right there?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Grossi Suggests ....isn't that enough to stop reading right there?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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As for the Topic, the cards know they blew it again at QB and Know they wasted picks to get this mediocrity and it is going to cost them to rid themselves of the contract given to Kolb. They may have to part with a major player. if not Peterson maybe Beanie Wells since we are dumping Hillis, their #1, and Holmgren agrees to split the contract with the Cards.
What? Do you know anything about Kolb's contract (bonuses, salary each year?) or is this coming out of your behind?
This one just makes me chuckle, i'm so confused. Split a contract? hehe. You've gotta be kidding me
Kolb is getting pretty big money for being a bum. who know under what circumstances the cards would unload that contract to a team with a big cap space. To do that they may have to greatly sweeten the deal. i don't want this bum yet was just saying under what circumstance a trade may be worthwhile. just adding to the post.
Like when lerner signed the just fired mangini still under contract for the Jets? did lerner have to pay him plus the Jets, did Lerner have some under the table deal with the jets to pay the Mangenious less? I don't know. i will leave it to finger waggers like you to chime in. I wonder if the cards just don't cut kolb. he is NOT worth half what they gave him and would cost the cards dearly to have another team pay this guy.
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just adding to the post.
Or detracting.
You just don't understand how the contracts work. That's okay. But don't pretend like you do when you don't.
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Kolb is getting pretty big money for being a bum. who know under what circumstances the cards would unload that contract to a team with a big cap space. To do that they may have to greatly sweeten the deal. i don't want this bum yet was just saying under what circumstance a trade may be worthwhile. just adding to the post.
Like when lerner signed the just fired mangini still under contract for the Jets? did lerner have to pay him plus the Jets, did Lerner have some under the table deal with the jets to pay the Mangenious less? I don't know. i will leave it to finger waggers like you to chime in. I wonder if the cards just don't cut kolb. he is NOT worth half what they gave him and would cost the cards dearly to have another team pay this guy.
I assume Manginis contract is like other coach's contracts (or how I understood it). When we signed Mangini we're paying against what the Jets pay him. So, if he's owed 6 million a year by the jets and we sign him for 5 million a year, the Jets owe him 1 million a season. (At least I assume that's how it works) I don't think he made what the Jets owed him plus what we owe him. Had he signed a contract with ESPN, he could make money from ESPN and us. I'm pretty sure that's how it works, i'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
As for Kolb's contract, it's nothing like this. I believe if a player is cut, he gets the money that he's guarenteed only. I believe that's the signing bonus (guarenteed money). That also all comes in a lump sum, as the signing bonus is paid over time usually. But I don't think you have any idea as to how the contract is structured. I don't have any idea how it's structured either.
Also, when you trade a player, the only part of the contract that has to be paid is the signing bonus (still). And it's all paid in a lump sum. Like when you cut him. We would pick up the annual salary.
Seeing as we have no idea how the contract is structured, we have no idea how much it'll hurt Arizona if they cut Kevin Kolb and we don't know if it's advantageous for them to trade Kevin Kolb.
And just so you know, NFL players are only guaranteed their signing bonus. So it's not like baseball or basketball where players are guaranteed to make what they're owed (like the Knicks paying Eddie Curry millions to sit the bench). Same thing with NFL coaches, their contracts are guaranteed. NFL contracts aren't guaranteed, the players can get cut and lose upcoming salary money at any point
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What about Vince Young?
31-19 as a starter, 2 Pro Bowls, still young and just spent a year with Andy Reid.
He got a bad rap in Tennessee. Fisher ousted him despite the fact that he won and posted better QB ratings every year. I think Fisher's ego could not handle having to play Young, and we see the result (Dolphins saying they won't give Fisher complete power in personnel decisions leading to Fisher going to the Rams) Young was only ever even the starter in Tennessee because Bud Adams ordered it.
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What about Vince Young?
Not just No, but Hell No!
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He got a bad rap in Tennessee.
No, he didn't. He's terrible.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So you're saying you do want Vince Young or don't want Vince Young? I couldn't tell.
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You can cut players for free in the NFL (minus the bonuses you've already paid them, which you can't recoup in any way)..
You seem not to be getting this important point....
~Lyuokdea
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31-19, 2 Pro Bowls, former Rookie of the Year...
Compared to what he have right now? Young would be an upgrade.
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I am not the one that you should be responding to as I didn't say anything negative about Vince Young.
But, I also don't want Vince Young. The rookie of the year and the Pro Bowls are irrelevant. Young, in the same offense we run, single-handedly lost two games for the Eagles (against the Patriots and the Seahawks).
He also had that meltdown with the Titans and they benched him for Kerry Collins. And he wasn't even playing bad when they benched him, what does that tell you about a guys character?
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just adding to the post.
Or detracting.
You just don't understand how the contracts work. That's okay. But don't pretend like you do when you don't.
thanks for the pithy comeback oh thread cop. I will leave pretense to you. 
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I didn't know where to pu this thought so I thought and didn't want to start a new thread although a Around the league thread might be valid. Something to think about.
Alex Smith has seen his value go from a top pick probably down to a 7th rounder and I'm wondering if he elevated himself back up to a first round pick again. Think about it that 7 or 8 years after he was drafted and labeled a bust that he could potentially grab a first round pick for himself. With that thought in mind Harbaugh if he wanted could trade Smith to Indianapolis for Luck or Smith and his low first rounder for him and re-unite with his college QB
or He could trade Smith to Seattle and re-unite him with Carrol and take those two picks and trade to Indy for their pick and select Luck. Indy could roll with Manning and add two more first rounders in the mean time.
Just was thinking about it..The road Smith has taken and I think the Coach is what made that more than anything. He put him in a good position, he gave him confidence and San Fran has some solid pieces on both sides of the ball.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Alex Smith has seen his value go from a top pick probably down to a 7th rounder and I'm wondering if he elevated himself back up to a first round pick again. Think about it that 7 or 8 years after he was drafted and labeled a bust that he could potentially grab a first round pick for himself. With that thought in mind Harbaugh if he wanted could trade Smith to Indianapolis for Luck or Smith and his low first rounder for him and re-unite with his college QB
or He could trade Smith to Seattle and re-unite him with Carrol and take those two picks and trade to Indy for their pick and select Luck. Indy could roll with Manning and add two more first rounders in the mean time.
What? Alex Smith has not elevated himself to 1st round status......... If it's because of the game vs the saints, he had 5 turnovers go his way and still had trouble beating the Saints. That's having the ball given to you 5 more times
Alex Smith has had a good year for himself. But the 49ers success this year falls mostly on their defense
And when did Smith play with Carrol? Smith went to Utah. I think he played with Meyer, lol
The Colts aren't going to trade their 1st round pick for Alex Smith. Even their first and Alex Smith isn't going to get them Luck. Man three firsts from us is worth more than Alex Smith and two firsts from the 49ers.........
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Alex Smith has seen his value go from a top pick probably down to a 7th rounder and I'm wondering if he elevated himself back up to a first round pick again. Think about it that 7 or 8 years after he was drafted and labeled a bust that he could potentially grab a first round pick for himself. With that thought in mind Harbaugh if he wanted could trade Smith to Indianapolis for Luck or Smith and his low first rounder for him and re-unite with his college QB
or He could trade Smith to Seattle and re-unite him with Carrol and take those two picks and trade to Indy for their pick and select Luck. Indy could roll with Manning and add two more first rounders in the mean time.
What? Alex Smith has not elevated himself to 1st round status......... If it's because of the game vs the saints, he had 5 turnovers go his way and still had trouble beating the Saints. That's having the ball given to you 5 more times
Alex Smith has had a good year for himself. But the 49ers success this year falls mostly on their defense
And when did Smith play with Carrol? Smith went to Utah. I think he played with Meyer, lol
The Colts aren't going to trade their 1st round pick for Alex Smith. Even their first and Alex Smith isn't going to get them Luck. Man three firsts from us is worth more than Alex Smith and two firsts from the 49ers.........
My bad thinking Leinert..Not sure why my brain doesn't work sometimes. Could be the meds from my surgery. egg meet face..famous words..I don't think he has either but he has increased his value. That's why I said him with a first rounder..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Add to that Smith is like 27, If Indy wanted a new old QB they could draft Weeden...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Alex Smith is also a very rare story in the NFL.
he has the size/measurables of a 1st round QB. He has been OK, without being great over the past 2 years prior to this year. He completed right about 60% of his passes, and 32 TD to 22 INT. He wasn't impressive, but he was moderately OK.
The team also had a lot of time invested in him, and made no big moves to get someone else as a free agent. They also drafted this Kaepernick kid in the 2nd round. I'm sure that they looked at him as a guy who would have been thrown in the fire if Smith bombed.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kinda like the pats threw their 6th round pick into the fire. Right?
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What?
Sucks when you don't get it, doesn't it?
Course, you haven't gotten it yet about the Browns qb............you think the next is the best. And you'll think that next year as well.
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You guys are cracking me up! In every Thread I go to you guys are like continuing the same conversation..sorry I find it funny..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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What?
Sucks when you don't get it, doesn't it?
Course, you haven't gotten it yet about the Browns qb............you think the next is the best. And you'll think that next year as well.
I think that next is potentially better when the current has no potential left.
I think I'm just going to stop answering you on this stuff. You're going off the deep end man.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Kinda like the pats threw their 6th round pick into the fire. Right?
You know there's only been 1 Tom Brady right? There has only been 1 QB drafted in the 6th round and won multiple Superbowls right? Tom Brady was drafted in 2000 and 32 teams have been picking players in 6th round since then and no one else has found a Tom Brady? That's like1/ (32 picks x 12 years)= . POINT 0.26% hit rate right? That's around 1/4 of a percentile?
So the Browns have a .26 chance of finding a Hall of Famer multiple superbowl winning QB in the 6th round and sadly are actually better odds that what they really are cause of comp picks..etc
So are you really advocating spending 6th round picks on QBs for that .26% chance of finding another Tom Brady? If not please stop bringing him up. The pats caught lightning in a bottle and its not an example for the Browns to follow.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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You guys are cracking me up! In every Thread I go to you guys are like continuing the same conversation..sorry I find it funny..
I have done a very good job of not beating a dead horse.............but some jackwagon beats that horse in every thread he posts in. At the risk of being labeled a "Colt" defender, I attempt to show the wagon what a tool he is. It's that simple.
I will continue to do so. I have NEVER said Colt is the answer. Never, not once.
What I HAVE said is Colt is not the only problem. Jackwagon idiots seem to disagree. Like they know anything. I don't want to get into ..............well, since I don't want to get into it, I won't.
I have a job to go to tomorrow.
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Quote:
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Kinda like the pats threw their 6th round pick into the fire. Right?
You know there's only been 1 Tom Brady right? There has only been 1 QB drafted in the 6th round and won multiple Superbowls right? Tom Brady was drafted in 2000 and 32 teams have been picking players in 6th round since then and no one else has found a Tom Brady? That's like1/ (32 picks x 12 years)= . POINT 0.26% hit rate right? That's around 1/4 of a percentile?
So the Browns have a .26 chance of finding a Hall of Famer multiple superbowl winning QB in the 6th round and sadly are actually better odds that what they really are cause of comp picks..etc
So are you really advocating spending 6th round picks on QBs for that .26% chance of finding another Tom Brady? If not please stop bringing him up. The pats caught lightning in a bottle and its not an example for the Browns to follow.
What the hell are you talking about?
So you and I have disagreed in the past..............what the hell are you talking about?
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Nice name calling.
I don't think that I ever went to that level with you .... or even came close.
That's a strong way to support your argument.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Nice name calling.
I don't think that I ever went to that level with you .... or even came close.
That's a strong way to support your argument.
That's odd, that you think my post was about you. I don't remember saying "ytown......"
It's not my problem that you have a hissy fit anytime someone defends Colt against your unreasonable expectations of a qb.
There are several people on here that are anti Colt..........and they plead their case in an intelligent manner. I, and most on here, agree with them.
YOU, on the other hand, can't see a team due to your blindness of Colt hatred.
Dude, it's your problem, not mine.
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Quote:
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What?
Sucks when you don't get it, doesn't it?
Course, you haven't gotten it yet about the Browns qb............you think the next is the best. And you'll think that next year as well.
I think that next is potentially better when the current has no potential left.
There in lies the problem..You or me or anyone doesn't know that. Even Holmgren and Heckert have stated that here was a lot of other things going on too and without a better Receiver play and O-line play and play calling and dropped balls it is very hard to evaluate. I believe he started talking about seeing if he was doing the little things right and lookingf at the depth of the receiver and their routes and other things. If Holmgren and Heckert aren't sure You sure don't.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I'm sorry Arch i used alot of big numbers and statistic analysis..Let me sum it up.
You and others continue to bring up Tom Brady as an example of how to get a franchise QB. There is less than a .26% chance of finding another Tom Brady in this draft. The question is do you select a QBs that are available in the 6th round from now until you find one with a .26% chance of success?
Unless you are willing to accept .26% chance of success then Tom Brady method is not a legitimate method of acquiring a franchise QB.
Go Browns!!
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I'm sorry Arch i used alot of big numbers and statistic analysis..Let me sum it up.
You and others continue to bring up Tom Brady as an example of how to get a franchise QB. There is less than a .26% chance of finding another Tom Brady in this draft. The question is do you select a QBs that are available in the 6th round from now until you find one with a .26% chance of success?
Unless you are willing to accept .26% chance of success then Tom Brady method is not a legitimate method of acquiring a franchise QB.
You oversimplified a complex solution. If you wanted to be more accurate you would have to grade out every team that drafted a QB, the success rate of those teams picking the QB where they were picked how long they were given to succeed how long it took them to succeed, etc. How many 6th round QB's were given a shot? Was Yates or Flynn a 6th Rounder? They might be given a chance soon enough.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I'm sorry Arch i used alot of big numbers and statistic analysis..Let me sum it up.
You and others continue to bring up Tom Brady as an example of how to get a franchise QB. There is less than a .26% chance of finding another Tom Brady in this draft. The question is do you select a QBs that are available in the 6th round from now until you find one with a .26% chance of success?
Unless you are willing to accept .26% chance of success then Tom Brady method is not a legitimate method of acquiring a franchise QB.
Thanks for doing the math. It means.............nothing.
Oh, ironically, I've never said we will find our qb in the 6th round, thank you. I HAVE, however, stated that franchise qb's can be found anywhere. I would guess that blows your mind, but perhaps you should read more posts before you post your math stuff. It would be welcome, in order for you to not look like a dolt.
Perhaps you could try it? Reading?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,999 Likes: 369
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,999 Likes: 369 |
Go enjoy yourself arch. I'm done reading your stuff, because it's the same nonsense over and over again .......
Go Browns.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
Go enjoy yourself arch. I'm done reading your stuff, because it's the same nonsense over and over again .......
Go Browns.
Ah, same as your crap.
Go Browns.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,744 |
Quote:
You oversimplified a complex solution. If you wanted to be more accurate you would have to grade out every team that drafted a QB, the success rate of those teams picking the QB where they were picked how long they were given to succeed how long it took them to succeed, etc. How many 6th round QB's were given a shot? Was Yates or Flynn a 6th Rounder? They might be given a chance soon enough.
No I limited it to finding a Tom Brady not finding a franchise QB. Everybody likes to bring up Tom Brady as an example how to get a franchise QB. I limited the query to what round Tom Brady was selected in.
BTW Yates was crap and a 5th rounder and Flynn was a 7th rounder and has proved nothing except Green Bay has a lot of weapons.
Quote:
Oh, ironically, I've never said we will find our qb in the 6th round, thank you. I HAVE, however, stated that franchise qb's can be found anywhere. I would guess that blows your mind, but perhaps you should read more posts before you post your math stuff. It would be welcome, in order for you to not look like a dolt.
Perhaps you could try it? Reading?
I agree there is more than one way to skin a cat so to speak. Using a knife is easier than using a jackhammer for example.
Its the same with finding a QB its not even in the realm of feasibility to expect another Tom Brady to emerge from the 6th round....its been 12 years its happened 1 time and that just since Brady has been drafted. Its an outlier. Its not good data...its not a valid reference point for finding a franchise QB. Using Tom Brady as an example is nonsense. Its stupid to think a 6th round QB could be your franchise and its stupid to think that's how the browns are going to acquire the next franchise QB.
I just wish people would stop using it as an example. The success rate for that method is so low its not even worth using. The rates that are better are 1st round QBs, trades, spending big money on FA. Those are all feasible and makes sense, but this fairy tell of finding the franchise in the 6th round needs to be extinguished and thus the Tom Brady example with it.
Go Browns!!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Grossi Suggests ..... Possibly
Kolb at QB?
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