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No I limited it to finding a Tom Brady not finding a franchise QB. Everybody likes to bring up Tom Brady as an example how to get a franchise QB. I limited the query to what round Tom Brady was selected in.
BTW Yates was crap and a 5th rounder and Flynn was a 7th rounder and has proved nothing except Green Bay has a lot of weapons.
Well there is only one Tom Brady and honestly I don't ever remember anyone saying that we need the Next Tom Brady. I don't even think people care what his name is or round. I think it's about the process and the best way to support a young QB or a vet QB or McCoy and be succesful and have a solid team that competes yearly. Everyone has their own opinion on this. I don't know but I'm guessing that if Tom Brady or Drew Brees would have came here instead of where they are they would have been tossed by the wayside too.
If You wanted to be accurate you would have to go by opportunities. If 10 6th round QB's (I'm just picking the 6th but you can use any round) were drafted this decade and only one was given an opportunity to start or have success then it would be 100% success rate with the other quantities unknown. If 25 Qb's were drafted in the first round and 10 became legit starters and 3 went to win a SuperBowl that wouldd be a different set of statistics, Same with undrafted guys like Warner If only one undrafted guy had legitimate starts in the NFL and he won 3 Super Bowls you have a different set of statistics. What you are doing is simplifying it. It's hard to compare a success rate when normally 6th rounders don't get opportunities but every first rounder get's an opportunity. I understand what you are doing but I think there are other factors involved. Tom Brady was no different than any other 6th rounder before he became "tom Brady". He was just given an opportunity due to an injury. Just like Kurt Warner and Matt Schaub and Matt Cassel(7th rounder). Brady Got hurt and He got an opportunity on a good team and had a stellar year and made some money. Not sure If I was clear.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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J/C
i personally am kinda hoping Colt McCoy gets another year....This city of cleveland has become known as the town where "QB don't get a fair chance" it just doens't make sense.
As much as Brady Quinn annoyed me, He never got a fiar chance to prove if he was a bust or not...He has not gotten to play in Denver for whatever reason...so he still hasn't gotten a chance...and before anyone says thats because Quinn stinks, Rich Gannon never got a shot either for years until john Gruden finally gamve him a chance and look what happened....you just never know.
Look at San Fran....they actually stayed the course and didn't give up on their Qb and very quietly over the last few years they put some playmakers around him (Gore, Crabtree, etc) and they built a quality OL for the kid. They also put together a pretty good defense....Alex Smith looked like McCoy his first 4 years or so in the league...because he didn't have any talent around him. Now that Smith has a solid team around him, he is playing much better then he was before.
I think the Browns need to take notes...Stick with Colt McCoy...and stay pat on your draft positions and take BPA..don't reach, don't trade...take the best player on the board regardless of position.
The reason this team loses is not because of its quarterback, we lose because this team lacks depth and lacks quality NFL starters at RG, RT, DE, MLB, FS, RB, and WR just to name a few....and our depth is horrendous...we have the worst depth in the entire league...ever notice someone goes down for the Steelers, and they have a back up that comes right in and don't miss a beat? like say LB, DL, WR, RB...they have depth there....
thats our problem.
right now...we need to give Colt McCoy a fair chance...3/4th of a season and 4-5 games the previous year is not enough....McCoy is still essentially a rookie...he played in a few games last year with another coach. The kid had his 2nd offensive coordinator in less then two season...what do you people expect.
If this team drafts a QB with its top picks...it will be the biggest mistake of Holmgren and Heckerts career and will set this franchise back 4-5 years...
We need to add TALENT to our current team, and try to win with what we have...we need to stop this subtraction by addition nonsense....for once in our lives...can we actually stay the course with someone and stop this changing Qb every year...its nonsense.
Colt Mccoy is young...its way too soon to judge him...You do realize it took Matt Hasselbeck 4 years to develop into the Qb he became...Holmgren's plan was to let McCoy sit for 2-3 years at the least...the plan was never to thrust him in....
Mccoy needs to develop, we lack the depth to win a SB next year...we need to continue to see if McCoy will take strides and in the meantime add more talent to our roster and add more depth....We will win more games by adding talent to our roster and shoring up our depth them draftinga QB will....patience, patience...
I will be so disappointed if this team gives up on Colt so soon...only quitters do that kinda stuff...If Holmgren has any edge about him...he will stick with Colt...
Colt has not looked as bad as many on this forum made him out to be...half way through the season we had more dropped passes them the whole year last year...we may have come close to the NFL record for drops...if a ball hits you in the hands you must catch it...you can't blame that on your QB....thats crazy...
We have the worst receiving core in the league and people expect Colt to play well? and the Right side of the OL being a complete sieve just makes that more realistic right? i mean really?
I know one thing, This team drafts a QB in the first...I won't be watching it...i will get ZERO pleasure out of drafting some poor kid and setting him up to fail...i don't go for that...a 1st rd QB will be expect to do something from the get go, and thats not possible with this roster....where as Colt as a 3rd rder...can be seen moe as a guy learning(because he is making peanuts) and we can see if he can grow in this system....but drafting a kid in the first...to play QB...i pity the kid if that happens...and i won't watch that...i'll still love the browns...but i just won't watch setting a kid up to fail...i don't go for that...
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Look at San Fran....they actually stayed the course and didn't give up on their Qb and very quietly over the last few years they put some playmakers around him (Gore, Crabtree, etc) and they built a quality OL for the kid. They also put together a pretty good defense....Alex Smith looked like McCoy his first 4 years or so in the league...because he didn't have any talent around him. Now that Smith has a solid team around him, he is playing much better then he was before.
Alex Smith has had Frank Gore every year he has been in the league. Gore was drafted in the 3rd round the same draft that Smith was #1 overall. The very next year the Niner took Vernon Davis in the 1st at #6 overall.
Smith has had talent around him since he was drafted. For all the talent that SF has put around Smith they haven't had a 1000 yard WR since TO left after the 2003 season. The most yards for a WR since Smith came to SF have been 2011 Crabtree with 874 and 2008 Issac Bruce with 835 (at 36 years old).
That quality OL you talked about got Smith sacked 44 times this year to lead the NFL.
The reason why Smith and SF has been so good this year is they have an OC and HC that know what they're doing with a QB. Smith has had at least 6 and I'm pretty sure it's been 7 OC since he came into the league.
Also, Harbaugh is the first offensive HC that's been there since he was drafted. Plus it doesn't hurt that Smith's head coach had a solid career himself in the NFL, basically being the same QB that Smith is right now.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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J/C
i personally am kinda hoping Colt McCoy gets another year....This city of cleveland has become known as the town where "QB don't get a fair chance" it just doens't make sense.
As much as Brady Quinn annoyed me, He never got a fiar chance to prove if he was a bust or not...He has not gotten to play in Denver for whatever reason...so he still hasn't gotten a chance...and before anyone says thats because Quinn stinks, Rich Gannon never got a shot either for years until john Gruden finally gamve him a chance and look what happened....you just never know.
Look at San Fran....they actually stayed the course and didn't give up on their Qb and very quietly over the last few years they put some playmakers around him (Gore, Crabtree, etc) and they built a quality OL for the kid. They also put together a pretty good defense....Alex Smith looked like McCoy his first 4 years or so in the league...because he didn't have any talent around him. Now that Smith has a solid team around him, he is playing much better then he was before.
I think the Browns need to take notes...Stick with Colt McCoy...and stay pat on your draft positions and take BPA..don't reach, don't trade...take the best player on the board regardless of position.
The reason this team loses is not because of its quarterback, we lose because this team lacks depth and lacks quality NFL starters at RG, RT, DE, MLB, FS, RB, and WR just to name a few....and our depth is horrendous...we have the worst depth in the entire league...ever notice someone goes down for the Steelers, and they have a back up that comes right in and don't miss a beat? like say LB, DL, WR, RB...they have depth there....
thats our problem.
right now...we need to give Colt McCoy a fair chance...3/4th of a season and 4-5 games the previous year is not enough....McCoy is still essentially a rookie...he played in a few games last year with another coach. The kid had his 2nd offensive coordinator in less then two season...what do you people expect.
If this team drafts a QB with its top picks...it will be the biggest mistake of Holmgren and Heckerts career and will set this franchise back 4-5 years...
We need to add TALENT to our current team, and try to win with what we have...we need to stop this subtraction by addition nonsense....for once in our lives...can we actually stay the course with someone and stop this changing Qb every year...its nonsense.
Colt Mccoy is young...its way too soon to judge him...You do realize it took Matt Hasselbeck 4 years to develop into the Qb he became...Holmgren's plan was to let McCoy sit for 2-3 years at the least...the plan was never to thrust him in....
Mccoy needs to develop, we lack the depth to win a SB next year...we need to continue to see if McCoy will take strides and in the meantime add more talent to our roster and add more depth....We will win more games by adding talent to our roster and shoring up our depth them draftinga QB will....patience, patience...
I will be so disappointed if this team gives up on Colt so soon...only quitters do that kinda stuff...If Holmgren has any edge about him...he will stick with Colt...
Colt has not looked as bad as many on this forum made him out to be...half way through the season we had more dropped passes them the whole year last year...we may have come close to the NFL record for drops...if a ball hits you in the hands you must catch it...you can't blame that on your QB....thats crazy...
We have the worst receiving core in the league and people expect Colt to play well? and the Right side of the OL being a complete sieve just makes that more realistic right? i mean really?
I know one thing, This team drafts a QB in the first...I won't be watching it...i will get ZERO pleasure out of drafting some poor kid and setting him up to fail...i don't go for that...a 1st rd QB will be expect to do something from the get go, and thats not possible with this roster....where as Colt as a 3rd rder...can be seen moe as a guy learning(because he is making peanuts) and we can see if he can grow in this system....but drafting a kid in the first...to play QB...i pity the kid if that happens...and i won't watch that...i'll still love the browns...but i just won't watch setting a kid up to fail...i don't go for that...
Nice post
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You very well could be right and I could be wrong, but my general impression is Colt is the reason you toss out diapers.
I just don't see him being any good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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i really like the idea of getting kolb, and here is why: i wanted him last year too obviously, but he went to arizona and unfortunately struggled a lot at times. now i still want him because i see him coming at a much cheaper cost, yet the tools and intangibles are still all there, he has another year of experience under his belt working with a subpar supporting cast, and a fresh start will do nothing but help his confidence since that seems to be the biggest issue right now. i think too many people were too results-oriented with the cardinals this year, and wanted to pass quick judgment on kolb because there was this element of hype generated with his name that was really undeserved and it honestly set him up to fail in arizona.
i feel like most of what you saw this past season was growing pains, and kolb should be much more matured and ready to take full advantage of his natural talents at the quarterback positions with a better overall receiving corps (yeah, the cardinals had larry fitzgerald so that may seem like a joke to say the browns have a better supporting cast, but other than fitzgerald they have one of the worst supporting casts in the league, which is a far cry from when kurt warner also had breaston and boldin to work with... not to mention the browns are in a position to draft a top-tier receiver potentially, and suddenly give them a much better looking offense). honestly, thinking about this further, kolb had beanie wells to work with as a runningback, who is virtually a nonfactor in the passing game... that really limits what he can do as a young, developing quarterback, and i think in cleveland there would be some semblance of a security blanket with not only runningbacks that could factor into the passing game, but a group of receiving tight ends that are already decent, but could continue to develop into a great strength for us in the next couple years.
also i think the benefit of having larry fitzgerald is somewhat exaggerated; he is a very talented receiver, with great hands and a knack for making big plays, but he isn't the best route runner and leaves something to be desired in terms of possession receiving... for fitzgerald and kolb to really get on the same page, i feel like the cardinals would need someone to open things up for the deep ball first, and it really isn't kolb's fault when fitzgerald is drawing extra coverage and not getting open underneath.
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/23/12 10:21 PM.
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Arizona has better WRs and RBs than we do...
So you want Charlie Batch AND Kevin Kolb... Yeah, that makes sense...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Arizona has better WRs and RBs than we do...
So you want Charlie Batch AND Kevin Kolb... Yeah, that makes sense...
fitzgerald is better than anyone we currently have, as a deep threat at least; beanie wells is a better pure runningback than anyone we currently have (probably, but it's at least close with hillis). but that doesn't reflect on the team's entire corps; wells contributes absolutely nothing to the passing game for arizona; it isn't like he is adrian foster and draws extra safeties up to the box to stop him, and he never runs any routes... the browns runningbacks (as a function of their offense in general almost) creates the opportunity for their runningbacks to actively participate in passing plays on the other hand, and if hardesty can get over this recent mental lapse of dropping balls i still think he could be a decent option in that regard if we were to let hillis go.
back on the topic of receivers, outside of fitzgerald as a stretch the field threat, the cardinals have a really weak supply of receivers... they have chansi stuckey. the browns have a young group of receivers, but greg little is somewhat promising, massaquoi would be a lot more effective if we had a quarterback to throw him the deep ball more frequently (i'm not saying he is a great receiver, but he could still definitely improve and as a #3 he would be a nice asset), bringing in a blackmon or kendall wright would obviously make our receiving corp a lot better, and we already have a pretty solid group of tight ends that should continue to improve and provide checkdown level security.
as far as batch vs kolb, i think in either case we would be upgrading from our current unit... but obviously we wouldn't need to add both, that is just silly; unless we were to not bring back wallace or something, which would open up the option for us to bring in a veteran backup to provide health insurance for our starter, as well as bring game management and consultant experience that could probably provide real benefit to our offense (and mentorship if we were to draft a young qb, but if we bring in kolb we may opt to draft at other skill positions instead in this years draft).
Last edited by RiderofRohanB6; 01/23/12 10:32 PM.
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You said Kolb didn't have a good supporting cast in Arizona...
I said Arizona has better Wrs and RBs then we do...
You BASICALLY aggree'd with me, while also stating certain qualifiers for how ours COULD be better...
My point still stands, Kolb was horrible last year with better Support than we have here, so Why would he automatically be good here?
He wasn't even THAT good in Philly with Jackson, Maclin, and L. McCoy...
Kevin Kolb is the only reason I'm worried about going after Flynn...
Just say NO to Kolb.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You said Kolb didn't have a good supporting cast in Arizona...
I said Arizona has better Wrs and RBs then we do...
You BASICALLY aggree'd with me, while also stating certain qualifiers for how ours COULD be better...
i agreed that fitzgerald is better, but other than that i disagreed; beanie wells is better at gaining rushing yards, but is inferior than our runningbacks in terms of passing offense. our receiving corps is more balanced in that we have much better tight ends as security blankets and underneath options, along with better receivers in the scope of our offense. if the cardinals had someone better than doucet as a second option in their passing attack it would be different, but as it stands i think we stand to have a better set of weapons around kolb.
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As a side note - I would be a big fan of Kolb ... but the main selling point is #1 what he costs to get ... and #2 if Heckert likes him.
It stands to reason that if Heckert goes after him then he trusts him enough. BUT ... you're talking about a guy who will be 28 by the start of the season. If you want to take on a guy who is that old he either BETTER be a sure thing, or he better be so cheap that we can afford to sit him on the bench if he can't win the job outright (like a 5th or 6th rounder ... maybe a conditional 5th in 2013 that could get as high as a 3rd depending on starts?).
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Arizona has better WRs and RBs than we do...
So you want Charlie Batch AND Kevin Kolb... Yeah, that makes sense...
and Jason campbell 
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Kevin Kolb is the only reason I'm worried about going after Flynn...
Just say NO to Kolb.
kolb had a better year in AZ than his career in Philly.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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Kevin Kolb is the only reason I'm worried about going after Flynn...
Just say NO to Kolb.
kolb had a better year in AZ than his career in Philly.
Uh yeah, Did he even play in 3 full games in Philly?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
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Kevin Kolb is the only reason I'm worried about going after Flynn...
Just say NO to Kolb.
kolb had a better year in AZ than his career in Philly.
Uh yeah, Did he even play in 3 full games in Philly?
7 games in Philly (5 starts), 9 in AZ
record / % / yds / TDs / INTs / YPA / QBrating
PHI 3-4 60.8 2082 11 14 6.3 73.2
AZ 3-6 57.7 1955 9 8 7.7 81.1
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I remeber the starts against NO and someone else when he threw for like 300 yards our of nowhere...
And I remember the opener against GB when he got knocked out and Mike Vick went all Mike Vick on the Packers...
I honestly don't recall him playing any more than that...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Vick got hurt last year and he went back in. But, Reid gave the job back to Vick when he was healthy. he actually had 5 starts last year and 2 the year before
#gmstrong
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Crap, how could I forget about the Michael Kolb and Kevin Vick press conferance?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
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Arizona has better WRs and RBs than we do...
So you want Charlie Batch AND Kevin Kolb... Yeah, that makes sense...
and Jason campbell
...and Mark Sanchez
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Arizona has better WRs and RBs than we do...
So you want Charlie Batch AND Kevin Kolb... Yeah, that makes sense...
and Jason campbell
...and Mark Sanchez
to be fair though, they were all suggestions posed in different threads; i think any of these quarterbacks brought in through free agency would be a benefit to our team... we don't need to bring in all of them, but i think we should entertain the idea of each viable option, and weigh the costs vs the benefits of doing so. obviously heckert isn't going to just narrow his sights to just one of these guys, he is going to dangle a draft pick out there and see if he can get someone to bite on a good deal that benefits us the most in the scope of what our organizations goals are, both immediate and in the future.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Grossi Suggests ..... Possibly
Kolb at QB?
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