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I would be upset.
While I think he is a great player. Like you said he's 30 (will turn 31 during the season). I also think we need to hang on to that second 1st round pick until the draft as we may need it to trade up.
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It looks like Brandon Carr will be available. The Chiefs signed Stanford Routt. Why does that mean Carr is gone? The Chiefs also have Brandon Flowers and with the Routt signing they now owe Flowers and Routt a combined $54 million.
Brandon Carr is the type of guy that would fit pretty well. We need a second corner, he's young, and pretty good.
With all that said I think there is little chance he signs with us. He's probably going to get a pretty hefty contract and I don't see us as a team that is willing to pay big money for a cornerback when we already have Joe Haden.
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Quote:
It looks like Brandon Carr will be available.
This is what I was coming to post. Carr would be a very SOLID pickup.
Not only does Routt's arrival lead one to believe Carr is leaving, but the Chiefs are ALSO very likely to bring back Dwayne Bowe.
Routt to Chiefs
Bowe should stay put
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j/c
I read on PFT this morning that Osi Umenyiora would’t be surprised if the Giants trade him... It got me thinking. He's still a high level player, though he's 30. Would anyone be upset if we traded #22 and maybe a conditional future pick (4th that can upgrade to 2nd based on stats) to the Giants to pick him up, then signing him to a 5 year deal (he currently is under contract for 2012 for about $4m) in the 50m range with maybe 25 guaranteed?
I think I would rather go after Cliff Avril and keep no. 22 although both he and Sheard are listed as LDE.
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Seems like the Lions are going to franchise Avril. Quote:
The Detroit Lions don’t want to lose defensive end Cliff Avril and are prepared to use the franchise tag to keep him off the open market.
While two people familiar with the negotiations stopped short of saying Avril definitely will be tagged, both said that’s the likely outcome if the two sides don’t agree on a long-term deal before March 5, the deadline for applying the tag.
Teams can begin using the franchise designation Monday. The tag guarantees a player the average of the top five salaries at his position. For defensive ends, that number is expected to be about $10.6 million next season.
Detroit Free Press
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Quote:
j/c
I read on PFT this morning that Osi Umenyiora would’t be surprised if the Giants trade him... It got me thinking. He's still a high level player, though he's 30. Would anyone be upset if we traded #22 and maybe a conditional future pick (4th that can upgrade to 2nd based on stats) to the Giants to pick him up, then signing him to a 5 year deal (he currently is under contract for 2012 for about $4m) in the 50m range with maybe 25 guaranteed?
I'd rather spend 80M with $50M guaranteed on Mario williams and keep the first round pick -- even if that meant not getting anybody else in FA.
Mario Williams ($80M) + Michael Floyd ($15M) > Osi ($50M) + Dwayne Bowe ($45M) - as an example.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
j/c
I read on PFT this morning that Osi Umenyiora would’t be surprised if the Giants trade him... It got me thinking. He's still a high level player, though he's 30. Would anyone be upset if we traded #22 and maybe a conditional future pick (4th that can upgrade to 2nd based on stats) to the Giants to pick him up, then signing him to a 5 year deal (he currently is under contract for 2012 for about $4m) in the 50m range with maybe 25 guaranteed?
IMO Osi is an injury risk, and will continue to be so as he gets older.
I'd consider him if he was a FA, but trading a 1st round pick for him? Nope. I'd rather pick a DE with our 1st rounder and see how it goes.
Osi's good, but he's really just the 3rd best DE on that team now. He's always had a really good player on the other side of him (Strahan, Tuck, JPP). And all those guys are better than him
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Quote:
j/c
I read on PFT this morning that Osi Umenyiora would’t be surprised if the Giants trade him... It got me thinking. He's still a high level player, though he's 30. Would anyone be upset if we traded #22 and maybe a conditional future pick (4th that can upgrade to 2nd based on stats) to the Giants to pick him up, then signing him to a 5 year deal (he currently is under contract for 2012 for about $4m) in the 50m range with maybe 25 guaranteed?
DE on the wrong side of 30 worry me .... and there is no way that I would give up a 1st round pick to get one. He's a great player .... but for how much longer?
I would rather have Heckert invest another 2nd rounder in a pass rusher in the draft than spending a 1st round pick on a DE on the wrong side of 30.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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FWIW - I was listening to Moving the Chains. Per Pat Kirwin the NYG are unlikely to trade Osi because Osi is in the last year of his contract so all hat he would expect the NYG to be able to get in return in a 4th rounder.
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I think I would rather go after Cliff Avril and keep no. 22 although both he and Sheard are listed as LDE.
I just wanted to say this about that though the point is moot as someone after your post posted link leading one to believe Avril won't be leaving Detroit.
What I wanted to say is that I don't think it's that big an issue to change sides. Although Sheard was used to playing LDE from his college days I believe either of these guys could change ends and be successful.
However, last season there was no off-season for Sheard to work on that and the team had to evaluate the players the first week or two of training camp, (and on into the season for that matter), so after the first game it made sense to move Sheard back to where he was most comfortable. They had to get something going as early on as possible which left no time really for Sheard to learn to switch feet and his moves.
I could be wrong about that but I do think they're interchangeable given a reasonable amount of time to work it out.
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Quote:
Quote:
j/c
I read on PFT this morning that Osi Umenyiora would’t be surprised if the Giants trade him... It got me thinking. He's still a high level player, though he's 30. Would anyone be upset if we traded #22 and maybe a conditional future pick (4th that can upgrade to 2nd based on stats) to the Giants to pick him up, then signing him to a 5 year deal (he currently is under contract for 2012 for about $4m) in the 50m range with maybe 25 guaranteed?
I'd rather spend 80M with $50M guaranteed on Mario williams and keep the first round pick -- even if that meant not getting anybody else in FA.
Mario Williams ($80M) + Michael Floyd ($15M) > Osi ($50M) + Dwayne Bowe ($45M) - as an example.
I like your example better.
Houston would be crazy to let him walk imo, but I still think that it would be highway robbery to land Williams.
We want to run a pressure defense, so it makes since to put more marbles in the bag for a DE.
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Mario might not want to re-sign with Houston. In their Defense he is kind of a tweener. A little too small for a 3-4 DE. And would he want to plat DE in a 3-4. Is he athletic enough for OLB? Maybe but with the way the guys that his place played when he was injured, I think the Texans might be better served using that money elsewhere.
He is perfect for any 4-3 team. I also think that he would be a good fit in NE. Filling the Willie McGinist role. Big OLB that rushes in the 3-4 that can put his his hand down when they want to run a 4-3 giving Belicheck the flexibility on D that he has been missing but reportedly covets.
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I really want Mario here, but doubt it'll happen... but UGH It would be even worse if he went to NE...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Mario might not want to re-sign with Houston. In their Defense he is kind of a tweener. A little too small for a 3-4 DE. And would he want to plat DE in a 3-4. Is he athletic enough for OLB? Maybe but with the way the guys that his place played when he was injured, I think the Texans might be better served using that money elsewhere.
He is perfect for any 4-3 team. I also think that he would be a good fit in NE. Filling the Willie McGinist role. Big OLB that rushes in the 3-4 that can put his his hand down when they want to run a 4-3 giving Belicheck the flexibility on D that he has been missing but reportedly covets.
I think he can play in either defense, but DE is his natural position.
I could also see him in NE as well. He was supposed to be used at OLB with Houston before he was injured, so basically I think that he could fit on any defense in the League.
Where he will end up, well anyone's guess is as good as mine.
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Could Steve Hutchinson be a possible signing for us? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/20/hutchinson-knows-the-vikings-may-cut-him/Hutchinson knows the Vikings may cut him Posted by Mike Florio on February 20, 2012, 6:52 PM EST Six years ago, guard Steve Hutchinson signed a seven-year, $49 million contract with the Vikings. The seventh year is this year, and the Vikings may not be interested in paying Hutchinson $7 million at age 35. And Hutchinson knows it. “I know what the cap situation is and all that, but it’s out of my control,” Hutchinson tells the Associated Press. Hutchinson realizes that he could be asked to take a pay cut, or that he could be flat-out dumped. “Any player has to worry about that in the NFL,” Hutchinson said. If he’s cut, the man who drafted him in Seattle and the coach who finagled a way to get him to Minnesota should come together to find a way to get him to Cleveland, where Mike Holmgren is now the team president and Brad Childress is now the offensive coordinator. Even at an advanced age and with skills that are starting to decline, Hutchinson brings leadership and toughness to any team. The Browns could definitely use some of it. Or maybe a lot of it.
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I hope not. Sounds too expensive for a guy that far beyond 30 . . . Could Wallace leave Pittsburgh? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ce-could-leave/Talk heats up in Pittsburgh that Mike Wallace could leave Posted by Michael David Smith on February 21, 2012, 9:48 AM EST Ordinarily, when a team has a good young player who becomes a restricted free agent, that team does what it needs to do and keeps that good young player in the fold. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that Steelers receiver Mike Wallace is not in an ordinary situation. Wallace becomes a restricted free agent in three weeks, and does so in the first year of the new rules for restricted free agents: A team that wants to sign Wallace away from the Steelers would now only have to forfeit a first-round pick to Pittsburgh, whereas in the past, signing Wallace away would have cost a first-round pick and a third-round pick. And the Steelers are in a different situation than most teams because the Steelers are in such precarious salary cap shape. Another team with a good restricted free agent like Wallace would put the franchise tag on him, but the Steelers would have to cut a bunch of other players to squeeze the $9.4 million franchise tender under their salary cap. The Steelers are also in a tough spot because they know they’re going to face the same situation again next year when another receiver, Antonio Brown, also becomes a restricted free agent. Brown was voted the Steelers’ MVP in 2011, and the Steelers would like to keep him beyond 2012, the final year of his current contract. But if the Steelers sign Wallace to a long-term deal, will they have devoted so many resources toward one receiver that they can’t afford another lucrative contract for another receiver? And if all the Steelers do is sign Wallace to a one-year tender offer this year, then the Steelers will be faced with both Wallace and Brown becoming free agents a year from now. (Steelers receiver Emmanuel Sanders becomes a restricted free agent next year, too.) Add all this up, and the Steelers may be painted into a corner where they just won’t be able to match a lucrative offer that some other team gives to Wallace. As Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette noted on Monday’s PFT Live and wrote about in a piece this morning, the Steelers may just have to accept the fact that Wallace isn’t a player they can afford right now. And there are worse things than getting another first-round draft pick, which is what they would get from a team that signs Wallace to a restricted free agent offer sheet that the Steelers don’t match. The Patriots and Ravens have both been mentioned as teams that might be interested in signing Wallace. Both teams would like to add a great deep threat to their passing game and would also like to take away a great deep threat from one of their AFC rivals, and both teams pick late in the first round of this year’s draft and would view Wallace as more likely to help them get to the Super Bowl in the coming years than whoever they would draft at the end of round one. It’s still possible that the Steelers will decide that Wallace is just too important to lose, and that they have to make painful choices elsewhere to keep him. But with three weeks to go before free agency begins, it’s beginning to look like the Steelers will lose one of the best young receivers in football.
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yay leaving the steelers, boo going to the ravens.
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There are some moves that would make sense, some that make no sense, and others that might make sense.
Sometimes the moves that might make sense are the most dangerous.
Signing a 35 year old Guard could make sense, if his name is Steve Hutchinson. He was once the best Guard in football. However, his age, on this team, makes little sense to me, unless we plan on competing for the Super Bowl next year. He's probably not going to be starter quality in another couple of years ...... so we'd be replacing a piece on the OL then instead of having build and tempered one while the rest of the team was also developing.
I want young veteran players on their way up ... guys who can compliment what we are doing over the next few years ....... not guys who will be falling apart and in need of replacement themselves.
JMHO
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with your sentiment on bringing up young players ... but I would also be interested in something like cutting Pashos to make room for Hutchinson. The worst that happens is a wash (and maybe we need to pay him more). BUT ... I wonder if there is anything that a guy like Hutchinson could teach to our line.
If he could mentor Lauvao and Pinkston then that would be good enough. And who's to say he can't teach a pointer or two to Mack and Thomas? Plus, we would still (most likely) be bringing him in as a guard - meaning we would still need a tackle and hopefully pretty high. View him as the band aid for a season or two and by THAT time we would have Lauvao, Pinkston, and whichever RT we draft now with a FEW seasons of experience each.
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We probably wouldn't be "cutting Pashos to make room for Hutchinson" though. Pashos is a Tackle. Hutchinson is a Guard. We would cut a Guard to make room for him .... and it would almost certainly have to be a swing guy who can also play Tackle and/or Center. Going all wild over a 35 year old, used to be great Guard makes little sense to me. I would rather stick with a declining Steinbach given that choice. What I hope is that we draft a T in the 2nd-4th round, and/or maybe sign a young veteran who fits the offense, if we can find one. Our current crop of starter/backups at RT is appalling to say the least. As a totally unrelated side note ..... if you want to see something really bizarre, go to the depth chart for the Browns at http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/depth-chart/CLE/cleveland-browns and mouse over Vallos and Greco .... and try and tell them apart.  Separated at birth? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i would think we would only bring in Hutch if Steinbach either refused to restructure his deal or if we didn't think he would be healthy enough for the season.
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Isn't Hutchinson the guy that used the "poison pill" contract to leave Seattle when Holmgren was the coach? (The answer is yes.)
Something tells me we won't be seeing him in Cleveland this year.
That and the fact that he is going to be 35-years-old during the season.
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Good for the local boys.Hey,McGlynn is a FA this year.
Strange things I noticed,no backup LT,and we have a Gronkowski at TE.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Why do we need a backup left tackle?
That Gronkowski at tight end is Rob's less athletic older brother.
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Quote:
We probably wouldn't be "cutting Pashos to make room for Hutchinson" though. Pashos is a Tackle. Hutchinson is a Guard. We would cut a Guard to make room for him .... and it would almost certainly have to be a swing guy who can also play Tackle and/or Center.
Going all wild over a 35 year old, used to be great Guard makes little sense to me.
Can't help but feel like you misinterpreted me or you are just on the defensive?
I never said I was going all wild over him. Just that it would be nice to bring in a guy that some on this thread have called a very good guard to teach our younger guys (assuming we do draft a RT then we will have a RT as a rookie - a LG as a 2nd year in pinkston - Lava as a 3rd year and even mack as a 4th year ...all still pretty young who could learn from a top player).
My point about cutting pashos to make room for him is that if we got rid of an older player who can't stay on the field because of his peanut-brittle-bones then we would (conceivably) have space for a player like Hutchinson. It's not that we would cut pashos directly for him ... it's that we could afford to have a different older vet who would only be needed in spot duty as compared to. Plus ... he has started 157 games in his 11 year career. AKA 14.2 per year. He's missed 7 games in the last two years ... but then again he's only missed 7 games since 2002. That;s 7 games missed out of the last 144. Doesn't sound like he is brittle to me.
Would he be a lights out signing? Nah. But I wouldn't mind having a Pro of a vet who could help develop our young line while he also either provides depth OR is used purely as competition for a guy like Lauvao to help bring along and upgrade that right side of the line.
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Quote:
Isn't Hutchinson the guy that used the "poison pill" contract to leave Seattle when Holmgren was the coach? (The answer is yes.)
Something tells me we won't be seeing him in Cleveland this year.
That and the fact that he is going to be 35-years-old during the season.
and Childress was the HC when that went down. I'm guessing they are all over that now.
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Hey, hey, hey! There is no need to bring that type of information to my crappy argument!
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Our current crop of starter/backups at RT is appalling to say the least.
LOL, Yeah especially considering we have none of those warm bodies behind Pashos who aren't set to become FA's.
Last season was a debacle at RT and real hard on the eye's too 
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The last SEVERAL seasons .. There I helped you out ! 
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The last SEVERAL seasons .. There I helped you out !
Yeah, thanks for reminding me ... I think.  
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My point is that we desperately need a starting and backup RT. We are really in decent shape at Guard.
I want to concentrate our efforts on young RT prospects, (be they draft picks or young veteran player, or UDFA) instead of old, broken down RT candidates or 35 year old Guards that we really don't need. It wasn't meant as a slam, and I apologize f it came off that way. I just don't see the need for an old lineman on an overall young team. JMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I get that too. No worries I just read it wrong.
My point is that I am going to assume we draft a RT. (Hopefully rounds 2-4 - I think you said you want the same thing).
If we draft him high then he is going to start (hopefully) early on if not day one.
That makes our line project as follows
Thomas (5 years experience), Pinkston (1 year), Mack (3 Years), Lauvao (1.5 years ... really 2 but had injury), and then Rookie RT (0 years lol).
However you look at it we have a young line. YES we will need backups and I hope we can find some quality depth to fill it out. That being said I would LOVE to have a guy who was a monster for a decade come on in and teach all of the guys some tricks. Imagine how much better Pinkston could look with another offseason, another year under his belt and ALSO if he went through the season from camp to practices to film with a guy like Hutch showing him things. Then imagine how Lavaman could pick things up. The RT from day 1 has thomas as a mentor ... but he also learns everything from a guy who had a stellar career.
One of the things that allows the teams like the Steelers to produce year after year is that their guys come in as rookies ... and sit there. They get spot time for experience and then just go into "learn from the veterans" mode for a few seasons.
I'd love to see our guys have that opportunity instead of being forced into action because of leaving free agents and regime changes meaning we are stuck with holes. But if the young guys HAVE to play then we should have veterans around who can A. push them for PT and also B. show them how to get better every day.
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not only that, but if Steinbach can't come back (again, the only way I consider Hutch), then imagine how much better Pinkston and Lauvao will become knowing they have to battle each other out for the other OG spot.
then, after a year, we can plug them both back in as starting OGs (if the coaching staff deems them both worthy).
it's why I want Steinbach back (other than that he's good when healthy) and it's why I would consider Hutch.
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Jeff Saturday is 37 and coming off a solid season. Has been a solid center in this league for a long time. He has made the protection calls for one of the greatest pure QB's Ever. You know he is probably only looking at a 1 year deal which would be perfect. If he is capable of playing guard and would want to, he would be a great asset to have around, and help Mack get to that next level as a center. It would give Mack someone to bounce stuff off as to what he is seeing. He would come in at a good price and a short contract.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 02/21/12 11:31 PM.
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Forget about guys like Hutch and Saturday and we probably wont be bringing back Steiny either at 6.2 mil. Expensive over the hill players just aren't in the plans unless it is a stopgap measure to get us through the year. Most of those types aren't going to sign until training camps are in full swing to avoid the work and to find a home with someone needing to replace the young guy that was injured in camp.
Now an older player that I would like to see brought in would be someone like a Reggie wayne that could really help the young receivers and still get a couple years out of him.
Another would be John Abraham, get a few years out of him while we find our RDE of the future.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
The only reason I see a guy like Hutchinson is because he has a history with Holmgren and Childress. That might not even be enough.
Wayne has a few good years left and could walk into a team like New England, San Francisco, Houston, Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, Philadelphia (esp. if they lose DeSean) and go championship chasing while STILL having talent across from him plus a great (or good for some cases) QB.
Unless they know us for a reason .. what player who is on the decline of his career wants to play with us? Not being disrespectful but we haven't shown enough YET to have guys want to play their last few seasons for a few months per year where if you multiply the "wins" total by 7, you'd still be below the freezing point.
I expect to land a near the top free agent ... but my guess is if they are playing on their last contract they will go where they can win AND be a star ... and not just a mentor to a team that won't compete for another 2 to 3 years.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
I really don't see them going after either Wayne or Abraham. I can see them drafting a WR and signing a young Top Flight Free agent type to bring this group up to speed. I don't know if it will be Jackson or Colston or Meachem, but I think we try hard to get one of those guys, just a hunch. Someone proven at getting open and making catches consistently. A Corp of anyone of those three(especially Colston down near the goal line),Little and Sanu would be real nice with Norwood. Cribbs can be strictly a special teamer and MoMass and Mitchell can fight it out for the last spot. Plus they would be more familiar with the language and route trees.
I'm not sure what the plans are with Benard if they will tender him an offer or not. Not even sure if he is healthy and I assume Mitchell comes back as a backup. I want to say they will draft one but not sure where, but I believe relatively high. Abrahams better days are behind him. I don't think I would be upset if they signed Mario Williams but I don't want his contract to be a hindrance on this team to get a guy if need be or to be able to sign one of our many young and up and coming players going into their second contract, so I don't think that is an option if they forecast the next two to three years.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 02/22/12 12:27 AM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 747
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 747 |
If the Browns were to sign Wallace, what pick would they have to give up? If it was #22,it would be well worth it imo.
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
Compensation will depend on what (if any) tag the steelers place on Wallace.
Option 1 - Franchise tag - 2 1st rounders.
Option 2 - 1st round tender - One 1st round pick - If a team has 2 1st round picks then it is the teams original 1st rounder, so it would cost us pick #4.
Option 3 - no tender - no cost.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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