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Quote:
Forte is up for a new contract as well. he is looking for Chris Johnson money (and probably deserves it more)
Will be interesting to see what the market is for Hillis. if we get either him or Michael Bush in FA though at a reasonable rate ($4-6mil/year), then I'll be happy.
There are only a few backs in the league making more than about $5 million a year, Peterson ($10 million), Steven Jackson ($7.5 million), and McFadden ($7 million).. Keep in mind I do not know the specifics of their contracts..
So if by $4-6 million you mean total, as in 5 years for $25 million, then I agree with you.. his salary would probably end up being in the $3 million range with a signing bonus of $10 million.. I would sign that in a heartbeat with somebody elses money. 
yebat' Putin
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no worries, he's not that well known yet. he is a good receiver out of the backfield (though not great) and was impressive in blitz pickup as well. 37rec this past season (6 starts). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BushMi00.htmthe concerning thing about Bush is that he struggled later in the year when he faced better rushing defenses and teams learned how much he liked to cut back (he was great at waiting on the initial blocks and cutting back across ala Terrelle Davis style). still, he's the best option in FA for us if we miss out on Hillis (and Tolbert re-signs with SD as expected)
#gmstrong
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I know you're trying to make a case for Hillis, but you're actually doing a nice job of stating why you shouldn't give any RB a big contract. Keep in mind '79 used the word "big" contract.
If Hillis is willing to come back on a "prove it" contract, I'm here with open arms hehe. If heis wants big money, well, bye. He's just too big a risk for a guy who isn't elite.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If heis wants big money, well, bye. He's just too big a risk for a guy who isn't elite.
That being said (and I agree) I have to wonder if there are any teams that would sign him to "big" money. The market may very well determine that his best money is here.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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It may, but something tells me we won't have the high offer, or even close to what a couple of other teams might offer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Depending on Mendenhall's recovery Pittsburgh and Cinci might very well take a look at him.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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My take on this is:
DQ....no brainer. Sign him to long term contract, he is a leader for this team on and off the field.
Hillis.......If it is me, I sign him to a nice contract. He could be an elite back, even though right now he isn't. He has the qualities you need in our division. This year was messed up, and I think the fans are being hard on him. He cooked his own goose for a "big" contract with the strep throat incidence IMO. He is a good runner, with great hands, and a very good blocker, I would try to sign him.
Dawson.....I love Phil, but money is the bottom line. Many talk about him being able to kick in Cleveland, but I have a hard time thinking of any kicker from an opposing team that has had problems kicking here. IMO, it is an overblown arguement. Phil has been here a long time and has been reliable, thus he is looked at like a god by the fans. Face it, he is a kicker. Many act as if no other kicker can kick in a windy stadium or in snow. Well there are plenty teams that play in bad weather and all have kickers that do well. He can be replace, and for the money he will want, I would replace him.
Adams.....I like him and he shows up, but he is IMO not a starting safety. We need a legitimate FS. I got a feeling Haag might be in the mix next year. I would like Adams to stay, but he's not worth starter money.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
My take on this is:
DQ....no brainer. Sign him to long term contract, he is a leader for this team on and off the field.
Hillis.......If it is me, I sign him to a nice contract. He could be an elite back, even though right now he isn't. He has the qualities you need in our division. This year was messed up, and I think the fans are being hard on him. He cooked his own goose for a "big" contract with the strep throat incidence IMO. He is a good runner, with great hands, and a very good blocker, I would try to sign him.
Dawson.....I love Phil, but money is the bottom line. Many talk about him being able to kick in Cleveland, but I have a hard time thinking of any kicker from an opposing team that has had problems kicking here. IMO, it is an overblown arguement. Phil has been here a long time and has been reliable, thus he is looked at like a god by the fans. Face it, he is a kicker. Many act as if no other kicker can kick in a windy stadium or in snow. Well there are plenty teams that play in bad weather and all have kickers that do well. He can be replace, and for the money he will want, I would replace him.
Adams.....I like him and he shows up, but he is IMO not a starting safety. We need a legitimate FS. I got a feeling Haag might be in the mix next year. I would like Adams to stay, but he's not worth starter money.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I would resign DQ,
I would also bring back Hillis if I could ... but this seems unlikely with the friction between the player/agent and this front office.
I would start on the next great kicker in Cleveland. Dawson has been here since we came back. Let him chase a ring somewhere, and let's start developing a guy who will be good when the rest of the team is.
I would bring back Adams. He is a quality starter at S, and is a quality backup anywhere in the secondary. I would bring him back if I could so I can concentrate my assets elsewhere in free agency and the draft for this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I would start on the next great kicker in Cleveland. Dawson has been here since we came back. Let him chase a ring somewhere, and let's start developing a guy who will be good when the rest of the team is.
Not a bad idea. Kickers can play 20 years or more. He should still have something left once we start to compete.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Ouch. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It may, but something tells me we won't have the high offer, or even close to what a couple of other teams might offer.
Just another case where we play games with our talent and let them walk and plug in lesser talent(like Hardesty) I doubt we sweeten any offer to Hillis and even if we did , Like several free agent browns before him, he may take LESS just to play somewhere else.
quite a billboard way to attract free agents and the message it send to your own.( don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out)
as for Hillis lowered production. Obvious playcalling to the same holes, the same situations in the same formations, with no receivers to fear, a hapless FB to block and a poor right side oline blocking as well as poor blocking by Pinkston for the first 8 games( profootball focus .com) had much to do with Hillis's "diminished value".
face it. even if we sweeten the offer he has soured on this tool of a HC.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Hillis is gonna be a Brown next year. He's not going to get the long contract he wanted, but he will get a chunk of change (prove-it contract).
NFL teams have seen way too many 1-hit wonders at RB, and I just don't see anyone going out and breaking the bank for him. As much as I love the guy, his kind are one of the easiest to find in the draft.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Just another case where we play games with our talent and let them walk and plug in lesser talent(like Hardesty) I doubt we sweeten any offer to Hillis and even if we did , Like several free agent browns before him, he may take LESS just to play somewhere else.
quite a billboard way to attract free agents and the message it send to your own.( don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out)
as for Hillis lowered production. Obvious playcalling to the same holes, the same situations in the same formations, with no receivers to fear, a hapless FB to block and a poor right side oline blocking as well as poor blocking by Pinkston for the first 8 games( profootball focus .com) had much to do with Hillis's "diminished value".
face it. even if we sweeten the offer he has soured on this tool of a HC.
Do you read what you type?
We don't try to sign free agents, blah, blah, blah. We can't keep players even if we offer more money, blah, blah, blah. It's our new coach's fault. It's the owner's fault. It's the president's fault. Blah, blah, blah. Give it a rest.
To everyone else - I don't want to franchise DQ. He is our defensive captain, and that is a guy you offer a contract.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Hillis is gonna be a Brown next year. He's not going to get the long contract he wanted, but he will get a chunk of change (prove-it contract).
NFL teams have seen way too many 1-hit wonders at RB, and I just don't see anyone going out and breaking the bank for him. As much as I love the guy, his kind are one of the easiest to find in the draft.
whether Hillis is a one hit wonder i would vote the front office decisions to stand pat on a crap oline, crap wr corp, let an outstanding Blocking FB walk in free agency and have a horrific play caller rookie coach were mitigating factors.
when he returned to health at years end hillis was a bruiser again.
While I hope you are right and he stays, I think Hillis walks because of his responses to some stimuli we are not privy to. he was pissy and not a team player when he was the model citizen a year before. what changed? the coaching staff.
Hillis was often seen cooling his jets on the sidelines when he was healthy watching the anemic Hardesty drop easy catches and run for 2 yards a clip.
when questioned about Hillis Heckert had all the open field agility of monterrio as he changed the subject to delusional rainbows about Hardesty. Hillis is gone. a new pothole in a team full of them.
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I've read reports where he is a loner in the locker room. I think he lost his teammates trust. Even though I want him and think he could be huge for the team, I believe the team, as in coaches and players, lost faith in him as a teammate. That could change, and I hope it does.
#gmstrong
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what changed? the coaching staff.
Or Hillis. But that doesn't support your argument so let's not even bring that up, right? It's not like Hillis was on the cover of Madden doing interviews all over the country the year before he came a free agent or anything. That had nothing to do with his changed attitude. I wonder why none of the other players' attitudes changed due to the coaching staff as the coaching staff was clearly the reason Hillis moped around for half the season.
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when questioned about Hillis Heckert had all the open field agility of monterrio as he changed the subject to delusional rainbows about Hardesty.
Again. You made this up in your own head and ran with it. Here is the interview you are talking about. I know you won't listen to it again because you might actually hear the correct thing this time, but I invite others to listen to it as it is a good interview.
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Hillis is gone. a new pothole in a team full of them.
If Hillis is gone, which seems likely but we don't know for sure, then don't you think they money that had previously allocated for Hillis might go to a different running back? So they don't re-sign Hillis, that means they are going to completely ignore the position? And wouldn't you agree that if Hillis doesn't get along with the coaching staff, as you say, then he should be let go?
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Coaching staff was one of many things that changed this year. Hillis also changed. The team lost trust in Hillis, not the other way around. Why should the team pay him big bucks to mope and lose the trust of his teammates? He didn't do himself any favors this season, and I don't think that other teams will give him the contract he wants, so he ends up with us for another year. That's just a guess.
Sitting pat with a crap oline... we swapped the RG position with a healthy Lauvao (who didn't really play last year), and had to swap in Pinkston because Steinbach went down late in preseason. They could've picked up some sort of RT (that McKinney guy is really the only one I've heard all season that would've been a good pickup), but there wasn't anyone that was going to fit our youth movement. We will be drafting our next RT, he won't be a FA pickup (we won't overpay for that spot with all the money we're putting into the line).
joe, if we don't grab a RT this year in the draft, you can rant away as much as you like. I just don't think you have much of an argument to stand on. WRs you have a bit more of an argument. I think they were really hoping (can't call it much more than hope) that Robiskie would take big strides in this new offense.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Coaching staff was one of many things that changed this year. Hillis also changed. The team lost trust in Hillis, not the other way around. Why should the team pay him big bucks to mope and lose the trust of his teammates? He didn't do himself any favors this season, and I don't think that other teams will give him the contract he wants, so he ends up with us for another year. That's just a guess.
Sitting pat with a crap oline... we swapped the RG position with a healthy Lauvao (who didn't really play last year), and had to swap in Pinkston because Steinbach went down late in preseason. They could've picked up some sort of RT (that McKinney guy is really the only one I've heard all season that would've been a good pickup), but there wasn't anyone that was going to fit our youth movement. We will be drafting our next RT, he won't be a FA pickup (we won't overpay for that spot with all the money we're putting into the line).
joe, if we don't grab a RT this year in the draft, you can rant away as much as you like. I just don't think you have much of an argument to stand on. WRs you have a bit more of an argument. I think they were really hoping (can't call it much more than hope) that Robiskie would take big strides in this new offense. [/quote
yes i agree you say i have no argument listening to Heckert sing the praises of Pashos this preseason. the guy who was pushed off his last two teams because he could not stay healthy and was sketchy as a blocker.
How did that work out for ya. Also, listening how we need more production from the FB position and let Vickers walk. How did that work out. Heckert totally sidestepped the Hillis question and saying we would not be ADVERSE to signing him is No vote of confidence.
Hillis and his agent got into a pissing match with management and i agree made matters worse, yet it takes two. You understand that concept. whether you agree or not is your opinion, too bad you find the need to whine about mine. 
Last edited by akronjoe; 01/21/12 12:53 AM.
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I agree that Hillis would have been better served going the route that Cribbs did. However being a country boy he kept firing agents trying to find the guys that represent Holmgren Co. He knew then he would get paid for sure.  Problem was he kept opening the junk mail that said in bold letters on the outside You can have the same agent as Mike Holmgren. Hire Me.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I agree that Hillis would have been better served going the route that Cribbs did. However being a country boy he kept firing agents trying to find the guys that represent Holmgren Co. He knew then he would get paid for sure.
Problem was he kept opening the junk mail that said in bold letters on the outside
You can have the same agent as Mike Holmgren. Hire Me.
Nick, I see the browns as a franchise that looks like that sunk cruise ship.
How do we right the ship? Do we let valuable people go? I think the first step is deciding who is valuable of your own and target keeping them happy. None of us really know who pissed in whose punchbowl as far as Hillis. he just is so far better than what we have.
dawson kicks incredibly well in the stadium and I would hate to lose him as well.
One reason we have for hope that has been demonstrated is that Heckert has conducted some solid drafts, I just want him using picks to fill roster holes and not have to plug new ones.
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