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Joined: Nov 2008
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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It is very rare that there are 2 guys considered to be as close to sure fire franchise QBs as possible in the same draft. It is rarer still that a team in position to draft such a QB is willing to trade their pick.
People say stuff like "We'll just get Barkley next year". Well ..... what if Jacksonville, for example, goes 1-15 with Gabbert at the helm. Does anyone think that they would trade away a Matt Barkley, no matter what the bounty? Not a chance. (and I'm not even that crazy about Barkley)
There in lies the problem. I don't think everyone see's only one sure fire Franchise QB in this draft. Some might see only one. I think the Consensus is Luck and you will find it hard to find any fan or Team or League Source to say otherwise. I don't think Griffin has that luxury because you have a select group that thinks he busts is a possibility of greater than 50% and a group that thinks he will be average to good and some that think he will come on the third day to deliver all from evil.
As far as Jacksonville, Gabbert was last year's version of Griffin on a lesser scale. If they are drafting a QB it will mean another 1st round QB goes by the wayside. St. Louis might also be thinking about one next year, but considering the amount of help they will be giving Bradford this year, he might be alright but not out of the question. Maybe Tampa will be there which would be yet another first round QB wasn't the Franchise. Who knows at this point, but Griffin is gone and chances are their will be Two more can't miss Franchise QB's next year which we will not have to worry about.
I think there is three ways we approach the draft with a eye looking toward the future.
-Stick with McCoy, sign a Free agent to compete but not pay him starter Money and go into next year with the possibility of being set or trading like Washington did this year if need be.
-Stick with McCoy and draft a Tannenhill, Weedon, etc. to Compete and develop as a backup plan with upside. Ala Brees with Rivers or Favre to Rogers, DA to Quinn
-Trade down to acquire a future first in order to have the ammo should McCoy fail and give them versatility depending on who they like in that draft.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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i should have replied to Ytowns then 
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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I replied to his post last night, but I don't think he saw it. Either that or I was so convincing he chose to pretend I didn't bury him with my excellent points.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Posts: 1,338 |
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I didn't think I was. I thought you said the Browns were going to rely heavily on Childress's expertise, and that because of his expertise they decided to back McCoy instead of riding the fence. I then stated that such thinking means the top-3 minds in the organization weren't sure what to do, but that a new guy who hasn't watched McCoy play hardly at all would sway their opinions. BUT, I'll defer that opinion until I read the rest of what you're saying.
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You're saying that you don't believe the Browns had interest in Griffin
This is what I was referring to when I said putting words in my mouth.
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Yes, we absolutely do know what their plans were for McCoy: Backup QB. We tried to move up to get Griffin. The price can be debated, but not the effort.
Which is why I said weighing options and teams in our Situation. I am not blind that McCoy may or may not be the answer. Example: You are looking at three cars, You drive 100 miles a day and have a family of four. You are going to way all options before buying this car. Just because you were looking at the Cadillac Escalade doesn't mean that the cost of it didn't outweigh the benefits of taking the fam on a vacation and feeling more than comfortable in the Current model and ending up in the same spot which is the obvious direction they went. No one knows what was offered if anything for that matter. We sniffed around and did due diligence which is what I expect out of a Capable front office.
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Absolutely. My point is that they already knew what they wanted to do with McCoy, which was to replace him. Now I know you're not inclined to give any credence to all the reports which state we tried to move up. We are going to differ on that viewpoint because there's not been one single report from anyone anywhere within or near the organization that denied they went after Griffin.
If you believe in your guy and were wrongly linked to a trade-up scenario, there is no other recourse but to call those reports lies so that you save your current QB's psyche. To this point, Heckert hasn't denied anything, and it'd be idiotic of him to not say anything if it weren't true.
So you choose to believe reports other than Heckert calling those ideas "Crazy", yet call the reports from Heckerts mouth about his support for McCoy and the ensuing non trade damage control? It couldn't be that they just didn't think much of him and the trade rumors that were started by St.Louis and the media were to drive up a price on a Nim Rod owner like Dan Snyder who couldn't hide his desperation intentions. Rule #1, Know your Customer and the Rams absolutely know the situation Shanny is in and the wreckless nature of Snyder. When he called those rumors Crazy that was his damage control because they were in fact"Crazy". So in essence itcould have went something like this. "Hey Les(Rams GM?) this is Tom Heckert with the Brown's I have to make this call but think you probably want more than what we think Griffin is worth" RamsGM says"Hey Tom, Washington already informed us that they will beat any offer you make and that our asking price is three ones." Tom Replies "Yeah, that's too much but thanks." Rams GM to Snyder "Our stance of three ones still stands and we just got off the phone with Heckert, give us your final Offer" and the rest is history. Assuming the Brown's offered three ones is based on the assumption that they beat it with a second when in fact they bid against themselves.
I also believe and I am sure we will never hear it that Griffin is the Player that didn't want to be selected by the Browns. It's my own personal belief, but QB's are pretty much the only players that care where they go out of the draft. It also could have been to knock the incumbent down to improve his worth. They could have said look at Washington they don't want to win. They signed Jon Beck and Rex Grossman. I think the Browns are aware of that fact which led to the disinterest that showed when talking about him. I hope it comes out one day.
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It's a fine line to draw, but what you're saying is much different than simply using Childress' input. You're stating that the top-3 dawgs in the organization were on the fence about McCoy, but that once on board, Childress convinced them to back him.
I refuse to believe that, because it implies our top-3 guys are incapable of making a decision about the most important position on the field.
I don't think they were on a fence about McCoy, I think they needed time to come to a conclusion about him and yes wanted input from a guy that they stated will help in the Process and have shown huge admiration for.
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I couldn't agree more that such things make it harder to evaluate McCoy, but again, you're flat-out stating our #4 guy, who was just brought in weeks ago, would have as much decision making ability as the three guys ahead of him. I cannot agree with that, and in fact, I shudder at the very prospect that an outsider who just got here has that much authority.
I think all these decisions are made by a Conglomerate effort and evaluation. I am pretty sure that is a sound way of running any business. Once in a while, you see a trump card pulled like Holmgren with McCoy.
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Well, now you're going down a different road. There are a few QB's in this league that can do that, but most cannot. I don't disagree with the premise of the idea, but again, you're stating that Childress is coming in here with all this power.
Holmgren and Heckert are running this show. It's their structure, and their decisions. Will they ask the opinions of Shurmur and Childress? I'd imagine so, but will those opinions sway the decisions of H&H? No way.
So really, Loyal, I don't think I put words into your mouth. I think I was asking for clarification, albeit in an incredulous and sarcastic way. It seems to me that you've just confirmed your thoughts, which are as follows:
1) H&H weren't going after Griffin.
2) H&H weren't sure what to do with McCoy.
3) H&H had their opinion on McCoy changed by Childress.
4) H&H will rely very strongly on Childress' input as it pertains to critical decisions in free agency and the draft.
If those interpretations are wrong, it's clear I'm still not getting it.
Once again I don't think it is about Power and I think it is a way of making decisions. I think there is a book about how the Packers are run and the way they go about making decisions. I don't think we are straying to far from that.
1- I think they inquired about Griffin in due diligence knowing St.Louis wouldn't take our half hearten effort.
2-I think they see a Young QB faced with many obstacles that most can attest to. They stated those claims and wanted to see what Childress thought before moving forward into a season with him as a QB for a Offense that he is responsible for.
3-Didn't change, they have always liked McCoy.
4-I absolutely think they asked what Childress would like for this offense to make it Succesful. Not that they will do what he likes but believe will take it into consideration when approaching the draft and free agency.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 03/12/12 03:52 PM.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
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Taylor Sheard Little for Juilio doesnt have any complaints from either side thus far.
Sheard was with our pick, We got Taylor, Little, Meracic and ATL 4th rounder this year for Juilio.
Plus thier 1st round selection this year (#22) 
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
minus our 3rd round selection last year, for all the bean counters.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
minus our 3rd round selection last year, for all the bean counters.
Correct, so actually Taylor was not picked with Atlanta's original 1st round selection last year, but we did use that selection we received in conjunction with our 3rd round selection to move up to Draft Taylor.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Steve Wyche of NFL.com says league
sources have us going Griffin
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