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alot of under-the-radar good at specific things baseball players this winter.

still going to have one heck of a hill to climb to compete with Detroit, but at least we can see a path to it I suppose.

Kotchman is a soild pick-up.



He may not be a .300 hitter, but everything points to him being a solid .280 guy if given the at bats.



He played for the Braves a few years ago and I liked him then (the Braves are the local team and are on TV every night, so I catch 60-70 games a year)....he will be a plus player.

J/C

I'm really intrigued by this coming season. There was a lot of bright spots last year when the team was healthy. The key to the team, at the risk of a John Maddening baseball, will be the health of the team. If we remain healthy, there's a shot at the division title. I'd argue potential wild card but not with the AL East being the way it is.

Forget the wildcard. The division title is the only real route and i am not all that sure that is a real chance.
Detroit is loaded. They might be the best team in baseball, even with Vmart out for the season.



The key for the Tribe IMO is if Sizemore can come back to anything close to what he was 3-4 years ago and the pitching.

I like the addition of Lowe. While he is over the hump, his experience will be valuable, and even though his stats don't reflect it, we has been a solid inning eater which is valuable.

nothing new other than detroit remains interested, and he likely helps more in 2013 than 2012, but i would be upset if they get Cespedes.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120...t-visit-Detroit

also, here's a guy I really like that Stark (ESPN) think the Rays will look to be moving. they could use some bullpen help, which is where we could deal from:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/stark_jayson/id/7560293/5-players-get-traded-spring-training

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/6243/jeff-niemann

Anyone seen the Indians Ink site (forums) and the possible sale of the Indians by Dolans?
They name Gilbert as an interested owner. I know he cant with his casino ties but Mike Iilitch has casino ties and I believe the Tiger are in his wife Marians name.

There's some interesting things out there about this and I didnt post links because of some of our rules. Check it out though!

the stars are aligning for a sale. we have no contract obligations after 2012 (after signing Asdrubel to a 1yr deal today). yes, we have lots of youngsters under team control, but no actual contract obligations (can always 'not' offer arbitration). owners usually do that so a new owner has a clean deck with which to work. you certainly can't get it by accident.

be careful what you wish for though. Gilbert buying the team is a pipe-dream IMO. He wouldn't push huge $$$ into the team as he'd still be tied by the revenue it brings. And, he would take bad PR for it (it would at least take a year or two though). I think he's smart enough to know that and avoid it.

If it's anyone other than Gilbert (who would have financial incentive to have a team near his casino 81 times a year), then the Indians are the perfect MLB team to buy right now. It takes a year or two to sell, then the new owners have 3-4 years to say they "tried to make things work in Cleveland"

2018 there is an opt-out for the Indians in the lease and they can pursue other cities (and the opt-in is only a series of 3yr leases).


BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

Cleveland Indians sign SS Asdrubal Cabrera to 1-year, $4.55 million deal to avoid arbitration

Saturday, February 11, 2012, 12:50 AM
By Paul Hoynes
The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Indians kept their streak of avoiding salary arbitration intact Friday, while topping $60 million in payroll by signing All-Star shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera to a one-year contract worth $4.55 million.

General Manager Chris Antonetti has 14 players under contract for an estimated $63 million. The Indians have not had a player go to arbitration since 1991.

Cabrera, 26, was scheduled to go to his hearing Wednesday in St. Petersburg, Fla. He would have been the first Indians player to go to arbitration since Greg Swindell and Jerry Browne, but the sides settled for just above the midpoint of their two salary figures.

The midpoint between Cabrera's salary request of $5.2 million and the Indians offer of $3.75 million was $4.475 million.

"We're very pleased we could get a settlement done with Asdrubal and avoid the arbitration process," Antonetti said.

In the past, the Indians have signed arbitration-eligible players to one-year deals and continued to negotiate multiyear deals during spring training and the early part of the regular season. Such could be the case with Cabrera and the Indians.

"We're open-minded to multiyear deals with a wide variety of players," Antonetti said. "But there has to be interest on both sides and we have to align on value and term."

Cabrera, Shin-Soo Choo and Rafael Perez are entering their fifth big-league seasons after filing for arbitration in January and signing one-year deals. They will become free agents after 2013, which could make them reluctant to sign a multiyear deal.

The 2011 season was a big one for the switch-hitting Cabrera. He started the All-Star Game for the American League after hitting .293 (105-for-358) in the first half. For the season he hit .273 (165-for-604) with 32 doubles, three triples, 25 homers and 92 RBI.

He led the Indians in runs (87), hits (165), RBI (92) and stolen bases (17), while setting a club record for homers by a shortstop.

After the season, Cabrera was awarded the Silver Slugger for being the top-hitting AL shortstop. It earned him a $50,000 bonus. Cleveland's chapter of the Baseball Writers Association of America named him Man of the Year, and he was honored as Cleveland's top professional athlete by the Greater Cleveland Sports Commission.

Cabrera set career highs in almost every offensive category last year. Before hitting 25 homers last year, he'd hit just 18 in his big-league career. Antonetti said the spike in Cabrera's performance may have played a part in a settlement taking longer than expected.

"We're happy that we have Asdrubal signed and are hoping he can build on last year as a player," Antonetti said. "The same production might not be there, but as a player we're hoping he continues to mature, develop and be more consistent."

Seven Indians filed for arbitration in January. They signed for a total of $22.69 million.

"The final numbers didn't deviate from what we expected the total to be," Antonetti said.

Last year the Indians' Opening Day payroll for the 25-man roster was $49.4 million. This year's payroll, with 11 spots unfilled, could climb to between $65 million and $70 million.

Well, we'd better have fun watching Asdrubal this season, because it'll be the last we see of him in a Tribe uniform.

Forget the Yankees and Red Sox, we can now no longer compete inside our our division payroll-wise. Take away the 8-9 million they would be paying Carmona (or whatever his name is) if he were eligible, and their 2012 payroll is around $55M, or approx 50% of the Tigers, White Sox, and Twins payrolls.
It gets a little scary when you look around for prospective owners that would be looking to keep the team here. Who is out there besides the Lerner family or Dan Gilbert? It seems clear that the Dolan family does not have the wherewithal, financially, to compete in the big-boy league.

ok, not 100% sure because noone has completely solid numbers. but everything I have read has the Indians at $72mil w/ Carmona/Hernandez and $64 without him (all assuming Asdrubel got just about the amount he did)

but....



it's not the Dolan's (at least not entirely). the Tigers are the only MLB team operating at a loss and even then it's $15-20mil per year on a $130mil payroll (so they could "break even" at $100mil).

Detroit's Metro is 2.5X bigger. except for last year (which we dipped down in payroll to clear the decks to hopefully retain some of our youth) we have outspent our division mates in $/population (via Forbes).

Gilbert might pump a few extra million the first few years to build goodwill, but he's not going to make us a $100mil payroll club.

ignoring that the Dolans have signed extensions to many of the young corps that we have had in the past and that we have no contract obligations beyond 2012, so we will have $$ in the budget to make such deals for Asdrubel and Choo.

Who have they extended recently that is the best player at his position in the AL, and was an arguable MVP candidate?

Cabrera is going to get a monster contract from a team that can simply afford to pay more than the Dolans can pay or are willing to pay (and to hear those familiar with the situation talk recently, its more of the latter).

Hafner was the best or 2nd best (Ortiz) DH in MLB and an elite power hitter.
Sizemore was the best CF in MLB (some may have argued Beltran I suppose)

they had an $80mil payroll and were losing money when CC, Lee (both who would have commanded top dollar) and Victor were coming due (I think Victor would have signed below market value, but we got Masterson back, so can't really complain)

anyways, we have Hafner ($13mil), Sizemore ($9mil), Carmona/Hernandez($7-8mil if he gets a visa), and Lowe ($5mil) all coming off the books. That's $35 million dollars that we can use to extend our own. Probably $10-15mil gets eaten up by our arbitration guys (we have a bunch due raises), so that still leaves more than $20mil.

Cabrera is going to want, and command, just a little bit more than the $4 million a year that Sizemore got, and probably more than the $13 or $14 million a year that Hafner got. I've got a feeling its going to take $15+ million a year over at least 5 years to keep Asdrubal in Cleveland, barring some crazy drop-off in his production this season.

Sizemore also wasn't the best CF in baseball (if he ever was at all) when he signed his deal with the Indians. He'd played one year in the big leagues, and they pounced on the chance to lock up a promising looking kid with a deal that was good for them.

As for Hafner? Not gonna touch that one, other than to say I have my suspicions as to why his health and performance fell off so sharply over the past couple seasons.

I'm glad you think that Asdrubal is going to sign a long term deal with the Indians. I'm just saying don't be upset or surprised when it doesn't happen.

1. I don't expect Asdrubel's power to maintain what it was last year. You could be right that he'll be a $15mil/year player. I was thinking $10-12mil/year, but that's not out of the question.
2. Yeah, we were smart and locked up Grady early after a fantastic year. Grady's baseball-reference page and I'll let others decide if he was among or the best CF (in addition to his great defense).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sizemgr01.shtml
2005-2008 22-38SBs/year, 22-33HR/year, 34-532Bs/year, OPS+ 123-133


Now, with Asdrubel, we might end up wanting to keep Choo more if he rebounds along with Masterson. So, maybe we do end up letting him walk or trading him. But, it will depend on who we consider the most important pieces for the build moving forward.

oh, also looked at the "why" it was only a 6yr $24mil contract. we were eating up his arbitration years + up to 3 years after (we declined the 2012 option but signed him to a 1yr deal, so effectively got that one at a reduced rate)

so, the first years were really reduced despite the huge production because that is what MLB does to it's young players through the team control process.

Grady's play in 2006 through 2008 didn't earn him the contract that he signed prior to the start of the 2006 season...

Do you think the Dolans would give Asdrubal a 6-year, $70 million deal, assuming he maintains his level of play this year? I don't.

Quote:

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oh, also looked at the "why" it was only a 6yr $24mil contract. we were eating up his arbitration years + up to 3 years after (we declined the 2012 option but signed him to a 1yr deal, so effectively got that one at a reduced rate)

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That just bolsters my point. They won't have arbitration years to eat up for Asdrubal.

yeah, I had thought we locked up Grady after 2006, not before. He still had one heck of a year in 2005 and we locked him up past arbitration.

we'll see what happens with the current young corps. we won't keep them all but hopefully we will keep the ones we need the most.

without a shadow of a doubt, that's the exact type of deal we would want him to sign. not sure if he'd take it though. but, it's the fact that the fans think that way that is the reason I believe the Tribe is in the last few years in Cleveland. and a Dolan sale of the team (to anyone but Gilbert who I don't think will want to buy the bad PR) will be the first step in it.

Quote:

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Gilbert might pump a few extra million the first few years to build goodwill, but he's not going to make us a $100mil payroll club

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I need this explained to my dumb ass...

I'm much more an NFL Cap person...

Even with no Cap in MLB...I don't get the thinking that Gilbert would 1) NOT want the team...and 2) NOT do some spending for top talent...

My simple mind thinks this way...

Put a Winning product on the field and Progressive will again be near or at Sell-Out constantly...

I know there's Revenue Sharing...I know we're not a Huge Market...But I also know the benefits of having a World Series Championship...And the $$$ that comes with it...

I also don't get this Casino thang...What's that all about???

I don't see Gilbert (or anyone else) just throwing money into the team without some hope of getting it back. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who operates at a loss. He might do so if he had a team that desperately needed one player to win it all, but he still wants to end up in the black. While it is difficult to get information on NBA teams' finances ..... the Cavaliers made a record $30 million last year (they didn't have to pay James/Z, and no luxury tax last year) .... and I bet that they didn't lose a whole lot in the prior years either.

As far as MLB ........ I believe that MLB rules still prohibit anyone who owns or operates a casino from owning an MLB team.

There have been "stretches" of the rule, like a wife owning the casino while the husband is a general partner in the Yankees, for example, but I wouldn't expect them to relax the rules for Cleveland.

Besides, where is this supposed stuff that says that Dolan is looking to sell? I haven't seen anything from any kind of reliable source.

I'm anti-Dolan, as most know around here, but I also don't think Dan Gilbert would somehow turn this into some upper echelon franchise with a top 5 payroll.

It would take an owner with the money of an NFL-type owner to do that. I understand the economics of MLB and understand how hard it is to give out a top tier contract to a top tier player. However, I also think the Dolans use that as a crutch to do nothing. They love to buy on the cheap, and sell high, and winning is not the top priority.

They showed so much promise last year, yet what exactly did they do to get better? Casey Kotchman? Derek Lowe?

Dan Gilbert is a good owner for the NBA, probably the perfect kind of guy. It's easier to dump a bad contract in the NBA, even with the new CBA, I think it's going to continue to be that way.

Dan Gilbert created a bad contract in Larry Hughes, none of us really blamed him, because it was the best move possible, but he was able to get rid of that contract, and actually get something in return (Delonte). In baseball, you're stuck with that deal unless you trade it away with other resources, and pay most of the bad contract you're unloading.

I don't think Dan Gilbert will or should go after the Indians.

According to Forbes Magazine, Gilbert's wealth is in excess of 1.4 Billion. Forbes also lists Norma, Nancy, and Randy Lerner as each having more than 1 Billion. I can't think of any other Cleveland family that approaches that kind of wealth. Possibly, Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance, but he is 77 with failing heath. If the Indians are to remain in Cleveland, someone is going to have to step forward with about 500 Million to spend. If we are destined to be a 2 sport town, like Buffalo or Cinci, please God, let it be basketball that we lose and not baseball. With that in mind, I wouldn't care if Gilbert sold the Cavs to a Chinese consortium for a gazillion yen, and bought the Indians. I think he would run the team like he cared about winning. I just think that while the Dolan's may be rich, they are not filthy-rich, and cannot afford the price of poker at that particular table (MLB).

no problem, MLB is setup strangely so it is tough to know unless you follow it closely.

1. Revenue Sharing - very limited as far as money and which teams get it (only the "luxury tax" teams pay to redistribute - local TV deals, revenue, etc is not shared). the Indians have only qualified for it one year (2011 hasn't been released from what I have seen but I could have missed it). the Rays, Marlins, Pirates get it pretty much every year but the other teams rotate in and out.

2. Payroll - 3 major things here.
A. Spending money doesn't guarantee wins. Just signing a big FA wouldn't have been enough to turn the tide on the division. Starting pitchers offer more "win for the dollar" but they also get hurt more often. Power hitters can get pitched around and taken relatively out of the game if they are not "protected" Look at the Cubs, Mets, Dodgers for teams that spend but don't win. Without the backup of a revenue stream (local TV being the big one), spending and losing that kind of $$$ on the Indians would absolutely crush the financials of whoever owned the Tribe.

B. Attendance has not followed the Tribe's winning % the past decade. In good years and in bad years the attendance has remained relatively consistent (except the year after the Lee/Victor trades where it expectedly dropped a ton). So, even getting those wins has now shown that the fans will follow.

C. If Gilbert only moderately spent (let's say $85-90 instead of $70-80 that Dolan's have been spending), then he would get a few years of goodwill but then the fans would turn on him too if he did not have a consistent winner. Despite that he would still be competing against the Tigers who spend $130mil/year and the White Sox who spend $100-120mil/year. And both of whome will probably spend more once they get new local TV deals.

that bad PR would then affect the Cavs as well as he's the owner for both.





and the sellout streak was a remnant of the Browns leaving, the Indians being good for the first time in 38 years, a new ballpark, and the Cavs running a 1950s style offense (and the Price/Daugherty/Nance era had just ended). really, it was the perfect storm and Jacobs spent once the $$$ was coming in (not before), still lost key pieces (albert, manny, kenny, etc.) and got out once he realized the Browns were back, and the local TV deals were changing the revenue stream (and before LeBron really changed things).

you can argue that, and there is some validity, but the minute the dolans took over, the set the tone for how things were going to be run, and the fans answered by not showing up. Yes they were good in 2007, and still had mediocre attendance, but the damage had been done.

I honestly think if the Browns were still around, Jacobs Field still would have packed every night. Those seasons were sold out in what, a day?

Those teams had a commitment to winning, they had the young guys, they brought in veteran guys who could still play to help this team along.

yeah, the Indians FO is very good at most things right now, but still terrible at PR. they mishandle 'how' they do things while maintaining their budget.

also, I don't think Cleveland, in a bad economic time, could sellout the Browns, Cavs, and Indians. the Browns are selling out regardless (for now) and the Cavs had LeBron.

before the CC, Lee, and Victor trades, they were still pulling in 27K in attendance and are expecting it to be back there this season (reason we are back in the low 70mil range for payroll). even selling out, we're talking a low 90mil payroll. still bottom half of the league. just how the revenues go these days. we have to figure out how to compete within the system.

It's hard to say how much the dolans could afford on free agency. Until they open up their books, which will never happen, no one knows for sure how much they could afford. But it's pretty disgusting when they made that move for Jiminez a year ago, that most thought they could mustard up more than Casey Kotchman, Derek Lowe, and Kevin Slowey this offseason. Actions always speak louder than words, and when your main free agent signee, was for one year, 3million, that speaks volumes to fans on how much you're interested in winning. I know Detroit may have a few more people, and draw better, but when they could afford 214 million, and the indians could only afford 3 million, yet again, actions speak louder than words.

I have defended this guy plenty in the past, but I will not anymore. He had his chance to pony up some of his cash, and sign players like Beltran, or Pena, yet he decided to go with the cheap route as usual. I am done with Larry Dolan.

Detroit increased their salary by $19mil (by estimates) from last season.
Cleveland increased their salary by $23mil (by estimates) from last season.

just saying.



(yeah, they were alot of internal raises that were due, but it is increased payroll, they did go after Pena who rebuffed them despite the Indians offering more. they did go after Beltran but he refused to come here for the second time - first being at the trade deadline last year)

Indians sign Jon Garland to minor league deal, pending physical.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/02/rhp_jon_garland_if_he_passes_p.html

I like Garland..more middle-relief imo

http://www.freep.com/article/20120216/SPORTS02/120216055/brandon-inge-detroit-tigers

What? I mean Inge has never played 2B. Throw him in there in his mid-30s and see what happens?

Is Detroit just trying to see if they can have the worst defending IF of alltime?

That Tiger infield (Cabrera, Peralta, Inge, and Fielder) will be about as stationary as any I can remember seeing. They're all first basemen.

Yup....hard shots and fast runners will be causing them problems all year. Of course, their bats might offset that a bit. Prepare yourself for a lot of softball games with the Tigers.

Might be fun to watch Sizemore, Kipnis, and Brantley lay down some bunts against Cabrera and Fielder.

J/C...

My Pirates just locked up the NL... the Burnett domination reclamation begins.