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Quote:
Cleveland Browns want city to spend $5.8 million for stadium repairs
Published: Wednesday, January 18, 2012, 6:30 PM Updated: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 1:16 AM
By Thomas Ott, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns want the city to give the team seven years of football stadium repair money -- $5.8 million -- right now.
The team contends the work is necessary to maintain a 12-year-old stadium battered by a sometimes harsh northern climate, and it has asked for an exception to a 30-year lease that calls for the city to set aside $850,000 a year for major repairs.
Under the complicated proposal, the Browns would get this year's $850,000 plus $5 million from the next six years of repair money drawn from the tax revenue collected countywide on alcohol and tobacco sales and administered by the city. In exchange, the city would not have to make its annual contributions from the tax money to a stadium repair fund for the next six years.
But what happens if additional needs arise during that time? Ken Silliman, Mayor Frank Jackson's chief of staff, said the city will consider dipping further into the so-called sin tax money.
Browns general counsel Fred Nance was guarded about what the team would be willing to do.
"If that situation were to happen, the city and the Browns would sit down and work out something that, first and foremost, ensures the integrity of the building and its systems," he said.
The Browns' request requires approval from the City Council. Councilman Michael Polensek, a frequent critic of public subsidies for professional sports teams, said he hopes the team will shoulder all of the burden if it needs more money.
"I don't think they understand how this plays with the citizens," he said.
Cuyahoga County voters agreed in 1995 to dedicate the sin tax to help build the stadium, which ended up costing more than $290 million, and eventually to cover $29 million in repairs.
The sin tax, which expires in 2015, currently raises $13 million a year. Starting this spring, the city must begin putting the sin tax money aside for stadium repairs.
Silliman said officials know they have to figure out how to pay for repairs after the tax expires. He said he has heard no discussion of renewing the tax again.
The money the Browns would get for repairs this year would include an estimated $1.2 million for refurbishing club seats on the north and south sides of the stadium and at the east end zone. Another $750,000 will pay to waterproof the concrete under those seats.
Most of the rest of the $5.8 million would go for replacement and repair of concrete on interior ramps and walkways and a plaza outside the stadium.
Follow Thomas Ott on Twitter @thomasott1.
© 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
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http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/browns_want_to_spend_58_millio.html
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I totally agree. 5.8 million should net us a decent reciever.
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All Pro
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If I was the mayor i would tell them to post back to back 500 years and then we'd talk. I would then tell them to kiss my ass.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
calls for the city to set aside $850,000 a year for major repairs.
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The sin tax, which expires in 2015, currently raises $13 million a year. Starting this spring, the city must begin putting the sin tax money aside for stadium repairs.
so, if the city officials were financially prudent, then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.
#gmstrong
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We're contractually obligated to pay them the money, anyway - and it gets deducted from the future years' payments, so I don't see why not.
They're just asking for advance on money they will get anyway.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Maybe we should have Romeo, Phil Savage, and Mangini pony up the dough. I'm sure we paid them at least that much for season they weren't even working for the team.
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so, if the city officials were financially prudent,
Dude it's way too early in the morning to make me laugh that hard. 
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then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.
If they were prudent, they would have the $850K obligation ready to go but not necessarily the 5 year advance.. I'm sure that sin tax money is obligated to other things as well.
yebat' Putin
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but the sin tax ends in 2015 and it's a 30 year lease from 1999. So, they better have the payments saved up to 2029 by then (i know, more laughing).
#gmstrong
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This is the kind of crap that infuriates me about sports. Lerner clearly has the money - his family had the money when the original deal was signed - pony the "expletive deleted" up and take care of the stadium yourself. Probably wouldn't need repairs had it been built right in the first place - as a dome.
And anyone want to bet that the sin-tax is allowed to expire in 2015? lol
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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but the sin tax ends in 2015 and it's a 30 year lease from 1999. So, they better have the payments saved up to 2029 by then (i know, more laughing).
Don't worry, it'll get extended in an after-hours vote of City Council.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?
#gmstrong
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domes require more maintenance than open-air stadiums. just ask Minny what happens if you don't melt the snow off the top  the stadium was built relatively cheaply ($290mil) and then another $29mil in repairs was built into the cost. so, $319mil for the stadium. it stinks that the public is fronting that cost, but compared to places like Cinci it's a sweetheart deal for the city ($555mil of public money) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704461304576216330349497852.html
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Meh. Just seems stale to me after all (sarcasm) of these years. It seems like it was rushed and is so basic... no charachter. I'm sure their's a ton of upkeep that goes on with a dome as well, all I know is I've been to Ford Field once and it was night and day better, IMO, that CBS. And I'm well past the "football's gotta be played outside in the weather - MAN'S GAME" mentality. I want to watch good football in a comfortable environment that can be a raucous sound cavern for my home team - not watch miserable football in a 30% empty or 50% visiting crowd (Steelers games) while freezing my you know whats off. JMO.
And I really don't want to read about a billionaire asking a city for $5.8 million for stadium upkeep.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Quote:
Quote:
so, if the city officials were financially prudent,
Dude it's way too early in the morning to make me laugh that hard.
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then they would have this money saved already. instead, they likely spent it and are now scrambling.
If they were prudent, they would have the $850K obligation ready to go but not necessarily the 5 year advance.. I'm sure that sin tax money is obligated to other things as well.
Well, I think part of the money they received each year went to buid the stadium initially right?
So it's really a big deal to front load that payment.
As purp pointed out, the team isn't asking for anything they won't get and aren't owed, they just want an advance. But given the state of affairs in cleveland, that may be a bit much to ask for. dunno
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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As purp pointed out, the team isn't asking for anything they won't get and aren't owed, they just want an advance. But given the state of affairs in cleveland, that may be a bit much to ask for. dunno
If Randy Lerner, with a net worth in excess of $1billion and the Browns with annual revenue of over $275 million really wanted to score a point and endear themselves to the city and the people, Randy would have his lawyer draft up an amendment to the contract that says... "You know what, we love the city of Cleveland and the fans so we are going to take the paultry $850K that the City gives us each year for maintenance and we are going to donate to a variety of local Cleveland charities including the food bank, youth programs, etc and we are going to pay for the maintenance ourselves. We appreciate the support of the Cleveland community for our football team. Go Browns!!"
yebat' Putin
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This is such BS,its happening everywhere but it is still BS
In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility? I thought PSLs were sold to repay cost of building stadium. SO why then,when the stadium loan has been paid off are the Browns still charging for PSLs on new season tickets?
This crap is going on all over sports and Art Modell is to blame for it. Art moving the Browns scared a lot of cities and pro sports franchises have been using it as leverage against their cities to give them sweetheart stadium deals.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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This is such BS,its happening everywhere but it is still BS
In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility? I thought PSLs were sold to repay cost of building stadium. SO why then,when the stadium loan has been paid off are the Browns still charging for PSLs on new season tickets?
This crap is going on all over sports and Art Modell is to blame for it. Art moving the Browns scared a lot of cities and pro sports franchises have been using it as leverage against their cities to give them sweetheart stadium deals.
KING
Not for nothing, but you seem to be overlooking the value having a team has for a city.
There are revenue streams that are a direct result of the Browns being here (and indians and cavs as well)
There is the pride factor (althought recent times leave me scratching my head over the pride)
I'm not at all sure what the numbers are or even how to begin to calculate them, but they are there.
Does it offset? Hell if I know.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility?
I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?
If a billionaire rents a luxury apartment in NYC to use when he's there on business and the plumbing breaks, should he have to pay to fix it just because he's rich or because somebody else paid to build the building?
yebat' Putin
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jc.
I doubt Randy Lerner even has much to do with this. He has staff in charge of the stadium affairs and such and probably just gets footnotes on these types of things during board meetings.
We all would do the same thing. If we had a contract promising our business certain funds for a certain length of time, would you turn it down before the contract is up just because you have enough of your own personal money? I highly doubt any of us would.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If I was the city of Cleveland I would ask for a legit football team. Seems neither is in a position to make that happen.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
Quote:
In what other business do taxpayers build your facilities for you , so you can keep all streams of revenue that that building generates? We, as tax payers built that stadium, The Browns(its the same deal for the Cavs and Indians at Gateway) keep all the money from all streams of revenue and now they want 5.8 mill to maintain THEIR facility?
I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?
If a billionaire rents a luxury apartment in NYC to use when he's there on business and the plumbing breaks, should he have to pay to fix it just because he's rich or because somebody else paid to build the building?
That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.
It looks as if the city agreed to pay 800k+ per year in maintenence costs and all the team is asking for is an advance on that money.
I think it means that the stadium needs some work and they want to get it done now rather than sprinkle it out over the next several years.
That's if I undestand it correctly and there just is no guarantee that I do.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Quote:
I'm playing both sides of this but don't the Browns pay the city rent to use the stadium? Just like a Kenny Chesney or U2 concert pays the city for use of the stadium? Isn't that what the lease deal was?
No and no, the Browns,Indians,and Cavs were giving exclusive right to their respective buildings. Any rent for the use of the building is paid to the team. Any and all revenues from the buildings go to the teams.
As an example,The Monsters and Gladiators pay rent to the Cleveland Cavaliers for use of Quicken Loans Arena. Thats why Dan Gilbet owning these teams just makes financial sense for him .
We the taxpayers paid for those building to be built and basically gave them to the respective teams.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.
Of course it does. I'm not advocating that anybody violate their portion of the agreement. But in most lease agreements, the owner is responsible for routine upkeep and maintenance.
yebat' Putin
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That depends doens't it.. It depends on what the lease says.. It depends on what they agreed to doesn't it.
Of course it does. I'm not advocating that anybody violate their portion of the agreement. But in most lease agreements, the owner is responsible for routine upkeep and maintenance.
True,,
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I was unaware that the Browns pay absolutely NOTHING for the use of the stadium...  I think the city should send the Browns a letter stating that they will pay for their share of the upkeep but they refuse to pay to re-sod the endzones, since the Browns didn't damage that grass all year.
yebat' Putin
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I was unaware that the Browns pay absolutely NOTHING for the use of the stadium...
I think the city should send the Browns a letter stating that they will pay for their share of the upkeep but they refuse to pay to re-sod the endzones, since the Browns didn't damage that grass all year.
If a car dealership came along and gave you a free car lease,would you still be responsible for maintenance on that vehicle? If part of that free lease the company gave you $200 per year for the 3 year lease, could you go to them the first year and say I want all $600 right now?
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?
I don't know, but I could have sworn that the Sin Tax was already supposed to have expired once and was subsequently extended. I may be mistaken, but for some reason that thought is what prompted me to write what I wrote.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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i know that was sarcastic, but i am curious: can council vote to extend it or does it have to be voted on?
I don't know, but I could have sworn that the Sin Tax was already supposed to have expired once and was subsequently extended. I may be mistaken, but for some reason that thought is what prompted me to write what I wrote.
Doesn't matter where it is - where a tax occurs.............if it has an "end on" date, you can bank on that date being extended.
Once any gov't. agency - be it a town, a city, a state, or the fed. gov't. - does anyone honestly think that tax will go away at the end of the "term".
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If a car dealership came along and gave you a free car lease,would you still be responsible for maintenance on that vehicle?
Car leases are different than property leases but yes, I believe you generally are responsible for normal maintenance on a car. Though I have never actually leased a vehicle. And in the end, you are responsible for whatever the agreement says you are responsible for.
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If part of that free lease the company gave you $200 per year for the 3 year lease, could you go to them the first year and say I want all $600 right now?
Yes you could.... and they have every right to say no, it's in your lease agreement. Just like the city of Cleveland has every right to say no in this instance... which perhaps they should.
yebat' Putin
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J?C
Just some general thoughts.
Extend the tax. People are already paying it, and in the long run, it isn't that much per person.
I don't think many sports teams pay rent to the building owner(city) anymore. It's way to easy for teams to find venues that would welcome them with open arms on a rent free basis.
It doesn't matter how much money Lerner has. He doesn't own the building, why should he repair the thing?? His family already made significant improvements to the facility with their own money by installing the two escalators.
I agree with the comment the building is a fairly cheap building. It's nice, but it was put up on the cheap compared to other facilities. It will require continued maintenance or it will fall to crap quickly.
It seems a longer term fix would be to enclose the open air ramps to help keep some of the moisture out so the freezing and thawing won't crack up the concrete walks.
And, since this is a perfect time to say it again, we should have put a lid on the thing. It would have been a far better use of resources.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If they would have put a (even a retractable) dome on on the stadium, we would have hosted a Super Bowl by now. Who knows ..... maybe more than one.
Yeah ..... we should have domed the damn thing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If they would have put a (even a retractable) dome on on the stadium, we would have hosted a Super Bowl by now. Who knows ..... maybe more than one.
Yeah ..... we should have domed the damn thing.
I have to admit that I was against putting a dome on CBS, but I was in favor of a retractable roof.
I wonder if it would have had a positive effect on attracting players..... Just a thought.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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J?C
Just some general thoughts.
Extend the tax. People are already paying it, and in the long run, it isn't that much per person.
Does anyone beleive if they let the tax end, that establishments would lower their price or just take the extra profit?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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j/c Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false. That the Browns are paying for the upgrades this offseason but are putting them on the ledger for the money they get from the city for the next few years (as they have to show what the money went towards). So, they are not asking for the money now, they are just spending it now and taking it from the city as per the agreement. http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/
#gmstrong
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Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/
Maybe Toni Groosi reported it.. 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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j/c
Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false. That the Browns are paying for the upgrades this offseason but are putting them on the ledger for the money they get from the city for the next few years (as they have to show what the money went towards).
So, they are not asking for the money now, they are just spending it now and taking it from the city as per the agreement.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/
Move along now.. nothing more to see here.
yebat' Putin
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Nance (Browns legal lead) came out today and said the media report was false.
http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19...-team-responds/
Maybe Toni Groosi reported it..
I checked, not Grossi,,but it was Thomas Ott from the PD
#GMSTRONG
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Couldn't the browns just call jj wentworth?
The orange 99 cent stickers will return one day if the fun nazi's allow it.
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Couldn't the browns just call jj wentworth?
Only if all the coaches and players, and even Randy, do the commercial where they are all on the bus singing.
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Captain Kirk (William Shatner) is doing commercials for a local sleazy lawyer here in Youngstown ... so I suppose anything is possible.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns ask City for Repair money
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