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jc..
Tony Grossi Calls Randy Lerner "Pathetic" and "Irrelevant Billionaire" in Now-Deleted Tweet
Posted by Vince Grzegorek on Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 1:55 PM
Update II: Whispers from the friendly confines of the Plain Dealer newscomplex tell Scene that Grossi's errant, insulting tweet might have the Browns beat writer in trouble today. Newsroom rumors, which are all they are at the moment, have Grossi actually in the office today, which as one person pointed out, never happens. That might not be anything — he did have a taping of some inside sports videocast for Cleveland.com. But, the editors and bosses have been talking to everyone's favorite "most irrelevant writer in Cleveland," and folks are assuming it's a dressing down.
***
Update: Earlier today, an apology was posted on Cleveland.com on behalf of the paper:
“Last night, Plain Dealer Browns beat reporter Tony Grossi made an inadvertent, inappropriate post to Twitter concerning Browns owner Randy Lerner. Grossi has reached out to Lerner to apologize. The Plain Dealer also apologizes.”
And during his video podcast, Grossi also apologized, saying this:
“Last night there was a comment attributed to me on my Twitter account. It was inadvertent, it was inappropriate, and I do apologize for it. I’ve reached out to Randy Lerner to apologize to him for it and we’ll just leave it at that. It was inappropriate and not meant to be tweeted, but it was inappropriate nonetheless.”
**
Browns owner Randy Lerner went on the Triv show yesterday for an interview. (You can listen for yourself here.) Naturally, this is of interest to Browns fans, and, you would think, the Browns beat reporter for the Plain Dealer.
But not so much. At least, not in a tangible news sense. Only as an excuse to fire away with an opinion what was likely meant as DM to someone, but which found its way to the public eye.
Here's what Grossi had to say, after telling Twitter that he didn't listen to the interview, because, ya know, covering the Browns isn't really his job or anything: "He is a pathetic figure, the most irrelevant billionaire in the world."
Gee, Tony, don't hold back now.
In other news, Grossi is a pathetic figure. The most irrelevant beat writer in Cleveland.
web page
This is a summation of what has transpired since Grossi made a fool of himself and the Plain Dealer.
When will people learn that twitter is not private?
Grossi and the Plain Dealer will take the hit over this one. I doubt that anyone with the Browns believes Grossi's apology is sincere. Grossi and the Plain Dealer are sorry that Grossi got caught saying this about the owner of the Browns...
"He's a pathetic figure, the most irrelevant billionaire in the world."
Last edited by mac; 01/20/12 09:02 PM.
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Can't even man up! A tweet "attributed to me"? Are you flipping kidding me? What a Super Loser! I hope this is the end of Grossi in Cleveland in every facet. I personally can't stand anything about the guy. Be a man Tony not a little sissy.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Quote:
Let me get this straight ... this Quote:
Lerner hasn't exactly been some incredibly effective team owner. He also hasn't been some incredibly amazing business figure as well. He sold off the assets his father left to him and his family, like MBNA, and bought a soccer club to go with the Browns. To the best of my knowledge, he really hasn't accomplished all that much in the business world. he hasn't been a raging success in the sporting world.
Pathetic isn't the most politically correct or polite term ...... but he hasn't been hugely successful on his own.
And Then ... Quote:
I wonder how many people are blasting Grossi today, but would have praised him up and down if they knew what he said to, and about our former coach from his 1st presser on?
Grossi hated Mangini .....
So it's not okay to blast Grossi if he's dogging Genie, but Who Cares? If it's about our Owner? Typical YTown. I know you've said it's water under the bridge but...You sure have not acted like it all season long. Any chance you've gotten, you been dogging the crap out of our FO.
I don't care either way.
He did blast on Mangini. I didn't say anything bad about him then. I still haven't said anything bad about him now. In fact, I have consistently somewhat stood up for Grossi.
I am just curious how many people would have liked him more if they knew the extent that he evidently went to with regards to blasting away at Mangini from the word go. Nothing more, nothing less. I am just curious whose "unpopularity" would have won out. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Grossi can also be quite an ass on Twitter
He can be a ass in person as well.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Grossi can also be quite an ass on Twitter
He can be a ass in person as well.
Ahh, I see I'm not the only one that's met him face to face,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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...and he's peeved that he gave Trivisano an interview but hasn't given one to "the media".
And for good reason.
Trivisano has a huge following on the radio. The interview is posted so anyone can hear it after the fact. I listened to it myself having missed it live. (I don't tune in to Triv)
However, give the media an interview and all you get is a transcript which removes all the subtleties of human speech. It's harder to get a feel for the exact context of the words. All the personality of the man is lost in print.
In addition, the writers who will produce articles on the interview pick and choose quotes and use them with a bent to their own opinions as they second guess what Lerner meant when he said certain things.
The writers become self-serving in using the bit quotes and questions-after-the-fact to create sensation where there is none. It's their job to make things more interesting than they actually are. They interject questions into the equation that get readers thinking things that that have no part in the thinking of the Lerner.
I can totally see why Lerner chose to give an interview to Trivisano rather than the media. Trivisano is a fan first. He applauds some of the teams decisions and complains vehemently about others just like we all do. But always remains a fan. Plus he can carry on a comfortable conversation with Lerner which is just that: A conversation. He's comfortable doing it.
The media, on the other hand, sits nervous asking questions as though it's an inquisition or grilling. They want to dig deeper into things and often ask stupid questions for which there is no answer. Just listen to some of the idiotic questions they ask Shurmur or Holmgren and you get the idea.
Sure there are things we want to know. But anyone with a molecule of sense knows they are not going to get the deep down, nitty-gritty answers they seek from interviewing the owner. Those questions are for the president who is in charge of the team, not the owner who understands very little about running a team.
There has to be common sense and maturity in the mix while the media has neither.
I suggests everyone listen to the interview. There's a bit of information in it and there's a glimpse into Lerner the personality. There's some humor and some nonsense. I get the idea that anyone could have a conversation with Lerner.
One glimpse into Lerner "the regular guy with a sense of humor" was his answer to a question Triv posed asking along the lines if Lerner thought Colt McCoy could be the quarterback to take this team to the promised land. Lerner's answer was, "I lose all ability to speak when asked that question." Which could mean, "I don't know" or "No" or "I'm not a talent evaluator" or "Yes but I shouldn't say" or "I shouldn't answer that for fear people may think what I say is Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur's evaluation" or any number of different things. I took it as he simply was not going to get into that or answer that question for whatever reason.
The media would have picked one of the possible reasons above and put words into Lerner's mouth. Actually, they're going to do that anyway. But once they print it it then becomes the thinking of many of their readers when in actuality it is likely far off base.
#gmstrong
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Oh yeah, Grossi. He's always been an ass. But since he's been a regular TV* personality he's gotten worse as time progresses. He's full of himself.
I really wonder how his latest "tweet" will effect his standing on the TV shows he's so often on. Hard for me to believe he's in good standing still.
*For those out of the area we have a cable channel here in NE Ohio called "Sports Time Ohio". It airs most all the Cleveland Indians games and provide other sports shows dedicated to our area.
Most notably three Browns shows. "The Berea Report", a daily show that airs during training camp discussing team practices as well as interviews with players, coaches, etc. Grossi is on probably half or more of these. "Browns Red Zone" which is a 4 hour call-in talk show devoted exclusively to the Browns. Grossi is a sometimes guest host probably on about a quarter of them. And "Sunday Strategy" with Jim Donovan, Doug Deikien and Grossi discussing the upcoming game. Grossi is on all of these.
I really wonder how it effects his participation on these shows. I hope he's asked not to participate because he's a bigger ass on TV than he is in print.
I hate to see a guy lose a job or income but you have to be smarter than to name-call the owner in public.
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You make some good points, but I believe the perception of the local media is that Lerner and, to a lesser extent, the front office, have isolated and insulated themselves from the community by only allowing access to "comfortable" media venues. Triv works for the Browns' flagship radio station; Carucci is paid by the Browns. They are not going to dig deep or follow up on dodged questions, imo.
Grossi's comments were rude and unprofessional, but I think I understand the frustration a reporter would feel when a lot of the information that is forthcoming from the Browns is through filtered outlets.
Incidentally, I have never met Tony Grossi, but I do know a neighbor of his who says he is a devoted father and husband, and a good neighbor. I only mention that for balance sake because some of you have mentioned encounters where he came across as arrogant. I think he's a pretty good reporter trying to do his job. I've read him for a long time, heard him on radio shows, disagreed with him and agreed with him, found him to be opinionated but not obnoxiously so. I'll keep reading him.
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His personal life is his to do with as he pleases,. I have no reason to believe he's anything but a devoted father and husband..
I also have the same impression of Randy Lerner and mike Holmgren and Pat Shumur.
And given the type of reaction they get from media here, I don't blame them for being guarded.
I know, its which came first, the chicken or the egg here. Who started this feud if that's what you want to call it. (I'm not sure it exists really)
I attribute a lot of what the media does to frustration over losing seasons. they are a reflection of the fan base in that regard.
But you take a guy like Grossi, what he does is go overboard. he will take a non story, something that isn't even on the radar, and blow it up all out of proportion.
Personally, I think he does it to get a rise out of the folks in berea.. Kinda like baiting them. That's not news reporting.. that's "Gotcha" reporting.
As for the interaction I've had with Grossi,, let's just say that you hit the nail on the head, he's an arrogant arse.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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you mean like the questions we get now from them? Was Payton sick? It was our understanding that yes he was sick. Did Payton fake being sick? No he was sick we sent him home. Do you think Payton got sick because of his contract? Umm no he was sick. Did Paytons agent give him the illness because of his contract? I cant answer that, he was sick. They open with Ok we are not going to talk about payton lets get that outta the way. Couple questions in Are you still working on resigning Payton? I said we are not going to talk about that. Next day all we hear is Browns not commited to signing Hillis.  These guys are a joke. As the poster above said Triv (who I also dont listen to) actually had a conversation with the man. It was like when you used to see those shows with Walters, she would ask some questions get some insight and we actually get to know the person a little. There is no way that Grossi would have done that good of an interview.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
You make some good points, but I believe the perception of the local media is that Lerner and, to a lesser extent, the front office, have isolated and insulated themselves from the community by only allowing access to "comfortable" media venues. Triv works for the Browns' flagship radio station; Carucci is paid by the Browns. They are not going to dig deep or follow up on dodged questions, imo.
Grossi's comments were rude and unprofessional, but I think I understand the frustration a reporter would feel when a lot of the information that is forthcoming from the Browns is through filtered outlets.
Anyone read any stories about the Browns from an "un-named or anonymous" sources, lately?
I haven't read an anonymously sourced story about the Browns since Holmgren took over. That's a good thing, right?
It's a good thing, especially if you happen to be a President or GM of a NFL franchise...no unauthorized stories...no leaks to the media. But, what is good for Holmgren and the Browns, might not be good for Cleveland's hotshot sports writers who enjoy getting the inside scoop from unnamed sources.
A few years back, the Browns hired one of the local sports columnists, Pat McManamon from the Akron Beacon Journal to be the Editor of ClevelandBrowns.com...it was when Phil Savage was GM...that was likely a high point for the local media's relationship with the Browns front office.
When Savage was fired and Mangini was hired, the media's access to the Browns players, coaches and front office personnel was greatly reduced, which didn't set well with some of local media bigshots, like Grossi.
In defense of Mangini, the tightening the media's access to players, coaches and front office personnel brought the Browns franchise in line with media practices of other NFL teams, such as the Patriots.
There was a honeymoon period between the Browns and local media during Holmgren's first year as President of the Browns when Mangini was in his second year as HC. When Mangini was fired, many in the media might have been hoping Holmgren would once again allow them the access they enjoyed when Savage was GM.
Then came the NFL lockout and the media was left without sources from the players or the management. Kind of tough for a sports writer to write a good story if they don't have a source. When the lockout was over, the media's access to the Browns continued to be limited, which likely surprised and angered some in the Cleveland media.
The media became more critical of Holmgren and the Browns as the 2011 season progressed. It's difficult to say whether the criticism of the Browns was due to the team's record or the media's lack of access or a combination of the two.
The Cleveland media seems to believe the Browns, Lerner and Holmgren, owe them something, such as open access to gather information for their stories. When the Cleveland media does not get what they want from the Browns, like little kids, they turn on the owner, front office, coaches and players, they claim to support.
I don't know when the feud will end, but don't look for Holmgren to reward those in the media who have turned on the Browns.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Please, let's not rewrite history. Lerner gave the interview to Trivasonno because he's a shill for the Browns. He has been since the return in '99. It's like giving an interview to somebody that works for you. You know it'll be nice and easy with no tough questions.
Carmen Policy was on his show all the time. The toughest question he ever had to answer was, "What did you have for lunch?". Of course, after Policy left Triv felt free to rip him. Triv is a blowhard.
What Tony Grossi did was wrong and he'll pay for his mistake as the PD sees fit. But let's be serious, he didn't say anything that half of this board hasn't already similarly posted many times in the past. I don't agree with it but it's not like it was an unknown sentiment.
There are some on here that seemingly live to bash anyone who writes anything less than a fluff piece. Tony, Mary Kay, hell even Terry Pluto gets ripped if he writes anything less than press release material about the Browns. Here's a news flash for those people....These guys are columnists. They're paid to write their opinions. Sometimes those opinions are a bit prickly. Just like the opinions on here.
As far as Tony's appearances on STO, I've seen quite a few of them and frankly, I enjoy them. When he and Jim Donovan and Doug Dieken are together you get several different points of view. Personally, that's what I tune in to see. Has Grossi gone over the top sometimes on Twitter? Yep. Sometimes his tone is pretty snotty. But if you've read some of the moronic tweets he gets or some of the childish crap that people write to his "Ask Tony" column it's a wonder he hasn't told some of this idiots to go....themselves. I know I would have by now.
Seriously, if you people got the kind of reporting you're continuously whining for it would be next to unreadable.
Just one man's opinion......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Sorry to rewrite history lol those were all questions asked in the same interview when payton didnt play with strep (sp?).
The other question was I think the end of year with Holmgren.
These are the tuff questions are media are asking????
If your going to do a interview is it going to be with someone that wont hound you with stupid questions just reasking the same things over and over again (TMZ) or with a as you call it friendly interveiwer (Walters)?
Finally what are these supposed tough questions you would ask?
I could probably answer them all for you.
Are you going to re-sign Hillis? We are in contact with his agent and cant comment on that.
Do you think Colt is going to the be the starter next year? We are evaluating that postision as well as every position the on the team and will make any needed adjustments to help improve the team.
Who are you going after in FA? We cant comment on players currently under contract with other teams.
Are you going to draft RGIII or someone else? We have our draft board pretty much set and will act upon who is available when we pick.
Do you think you will trade up or down? We will listen to all offers that are presented to us its to early for those discussions. Im sure Tom the car salesman will be in contact with alot of other GM's come draft day.
Is Shurmurs Job safe if he does bad next year? We have stated that we like Pat are building this to last so yeah Pats job is safe but ever year we will evaluate everyone in the building players coaches management everyone.
Are you looking to hire and OC? Yes we are looking but the hire must fit what we want to continue to build here we wont hire an OC just to hire a guy, he must fit with our system.
Is Pat going to call his own plays next year? Pat is willing to do what it takes to make this team better if that means giving up playcalling duties he is not opposed to doing that? Does that mean he for sure will? No.
Why are the Browns asking the city for money to improve the staduim in advance? The city is poor they should pay for the repairs themselves.
The Browns are just collecting on the money that was put aside for this purpose in the contract/lease signed by the city port ath browns and NFL. The city takes in 13 million a year and pays out 850,000 for repairs starting this year. We are paying for the repairs up front and are then showing how the money is spent for our future collection on those repairs. On top of that there is a 26 million fund for repairs above and beyond that.
ETC ETC ETC.
Thats as much fluff as anything else isnt it? I just dont see these tough questions that Tony Grossi or any of them ask that you speak of.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
What Tony Grossi did was wrong and he'll pay for his mistake as the PD sees fit. But let's be serious, he didn't say anything that half of this board hasn't already similarly posted many times in the past. I don't agree with it but it's not like it was an unknown sentiment.
craz..what Grossi did was morally wrong, professionally wrong and also, "INACCURRATE".
Tony Grossi Calls Randy Lerner "Pathetic" and "Irrelevant Billionaire"...
I see nothing "pathetic" about Randy Lerner...as a man, as a businessman or as the owner of the Cleveland Browns. Just what is it that is "pathetic" about Lerner?
...what does the media want, an owner like Jerry Jones?
...since taking over from his father, Lerner has done all he could to support the people he has hired to run the team.
He admits to knowing "what he does not know". Lerner is a businessman who has been a fan of the Browns since he was a kid. He was not a football player nor a coach...but someone who has wanted nothing but a winning football team for the fans of the Browns.
Knowing who you are...and doing what you do best...while standing aside and allowing those hired to do what they best, manage the Browns...that does not make Randy Lerner "pathetic" or "irrelevant".
It means he is not on some ego trip for his own personal reasons...it means he is damn smart too...persuading some of the best people in football to run the team he owns.
I don't know why it is, but some seem to view those who do things in a different way as inept or weak...and most of the time, those doing the judging are wrong.
Lerner may not be fit the mold some see as ideal for an NFL owner, but that is no reason to attack him trying to build the Browns into a winning franchise again.
No, Lerner has not succeeded in building the Browns into the winner he envisions, since taking over the Browns when his father died in 2002...not yet!
Some in the media need to take a look at the history of Pro football history and educate themselves about how difficult it can be for some franchises to turn it around.
Art Rooney became the owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates, now the Steelers in 1933 and had one winning season in his first 10 years of ownership. The Steelers went 13 years before they made it to the playoffs.
...24 yrs after that first appearance in the playoffs (1947), the Steelers made their 2nd playoff appearance with Art Rooney as their owner.
With the great Art Rooney as the owner of the Steelers, his team went 38 yrs before making their 2nd playoff appearance...THAT IS REALITY.
The Cleveland media and fans have "huge problem" dealing with reality!
...they want their Super Bowl Championship now...after all, they have waited 10 seasons since Randy Lerner took over as owner.
In Cleveland, we have a media that believes they are showing support by running down "the team they claim to support" and they by do their best to influence Cleveland Browns fans to join them in running down "the team they claim to support"....
...sounds kind of crazy, doesn't it?....but that is how Cleveland's media and (some) fans believe they should show their support for the Browns...running down the owner, front office, coaches and players.
It took Art Rooney 36 yrs to find the right guy to run his franchise.
...and it took the "right guy" 4 yrs to get his team to the playoffs.
Randy Lerner has been looking for his "right guy" for 10 yrs. It might be Mike Holmgren, but it is way to soon to know as he is only in his 3rd season as President of the Browns.
The Cleveland media and fans need a big dose or "reality" and an even bigger dose of "patience"...
...and it wouldn't hurt for the media and fans to show a little "respect" for those trying to build the Cleveland Browns into a winner.
jmho...mac
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I much prefer Pluto. He can dis the Browns,but doesn't seem a hater on a personal level. Grossi is a pathetic lil ol puzzle I dn't wish to solve. If he didna write Browns, I doubt I would read him. Seems to cross the road and go out of his way to gin up negatives IMO. This stunk on about every level possible. Loyalty is OK in his replacement. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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the problem is, there is no magic bullet to fix a team.
the only way to do it is to think it through, get advice from those that have succeeded, interpret what you learn and turn it into action..
And with all of that (which Lerner has done) it's still likely to fail.
I get the feeling that with the fans and the media, if Lerner doesn't hire the guy THEY think is best,,,,, it's almost like they want him to fail so they can say "I told you so"!
I don't know that is fact of course, but it sure as hell feels like it sometimes.
I heard someone at the Grocery store saying how we should have hired Jim Harbaugh because look, he's got his team in the playoffs in his first year....
Well, if we had thier players, It might have worked here, but that doesn't seem to matter I guess...
#GMSTRONG
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As for the interaction I've had with Grossi,, let's just say that you hit the nail on the head, he's an arrogant arse.
Just for the record, D, I didn't say he was arrogant, or an ass. That particular nail was not hit on the head by me. I was referring to posts made by others.
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Just for the record, D, I didn't say he was arrogant, or an ass.
Dave..Why would you say that ? are you a Browns fan or some nut trolling...LOL !!!
I'm so just kidding around Dave.. don't take me serious...Off season boredom 
General reply...screw Grossi...
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I used to talk to Grossi durning the browns games last year and quit because he was always talking bad about the whole org, didnt matter coach owner he hated them both and would spew forth all sorts of bad stuff.
He may be a devoted father (of couse whom amoung us isnt) but your real worth is shone through your actions.
I dont know him personally but I know his charactor he cant hide that because he has shown it to me for a couple years and hes shown it again. He thinks he knows more about running the Browns then the Browns.
Personally I hope they run him out of town like Rodger Brown.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
Quote:
As for the interaction I've had with Grossi,, let's just say that you hit the nail on the head, he's an arrogant arse.
Just for the record, D, I didn't say he was arrogant, or an ass. That particular nail was not hit on the head by me. I was referring to posts made by others.
Noted..
#GMSTRONG
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I love learning from people..and you think..that because they are in the business..you could learn something...
One thing I have learned..is people who are always negative and bestowed upon themselves.. well Nick..your a smart guy..I need not have to say more..
Imo..he doesn't deserve his own thread on this board...
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Tony, Mary Kay, hell even Terry Pluto gets ripped if he writes anything less than press release material about the Browns. Here's a news flash for those people....These guys are columnists. They're paid to write their opinions. Sometimes those opinions are a bit prickly. Just like the opinions on here.
Terry Pluto is a columnist paid for his opinions. Tony Grossi and Mary Kay Cabot are beat reporters paid to cover the team - not for their opinions.
I don't believe that you - as a beat reporter - can openly state that the owner of the team is pathetic and an irrelevant billionaire and NOT have it bleed into the way you feel about the team and hence your coverage of it.
Grossi must go.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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All Pro
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We should make signs with his mug--similar to when there were signs in '93 with the words "Bill Must Go!" on them.
Grossi is complacent, probably, and will keep his job because the union will protect him and the PD mgmt. knows that he is a high-profile reporter, so they will just tell him to tone it down.
I am glad the Browns are filtering their news and being vigilant about it. PR is very vital to any organization. Grossi may have been good in '80 as a new reporter, but most of the people on this board, even those with no writing experience, could probably write better than him.
Go Browns!
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the problem is, there is no magic bullet to fix a team.
daman...no magic bullet...just hard work and patience.
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And with all of that (which Lerner has done) it's still likely to fail.
Still likely to "fail"...
Really...you believe that?
You believe Randy Lerner's choice to hire Mike Holmgren and allow him the latitude to build the Browns, will end in failure?
Daman..do understand, I'm not picking on you, but this is an example what can be read and heard from the Cleveland media and Browns fans..emphasis on the negative, not the positive.
No way in hell do I believe Holmgren is going to fail to build this franchise into a winner..a team capable of competing for the AFC North title thus competing in the playoffs.
No one can guarantee Browns fans a Super Bowl victory...that is up to the players and coaches. But no team can compete for the Super Bowl unless they make it to the playoffs, whether as a division winner or as a wild card...doesn't matter how the Browns get there, making it to the playoffs is the goal.
I believe Lerner's hiring of Holmgren will be a success and the Browns will make it to the playoffs...
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I get the feeling that with the fans and the media, if Lerner doesn't hire the guy THEY think is best,,,,, it's almost like they want him to fail so they can say "I told you so"!
Daman...I know what you are saying...and it's not just Lerner some want to see fail...some want Holmgren to fail because he didn't retain Mangini...some want Shurmur to fail because he was Holmgren's choice to replace Mangini.
I honestly believe the radio media in and around Cleveland is responsible to a large degree for cultivating the negative attitudes and the hatred of Lerner, Holmgren, Shurmur and some players. They do their best to gin up fan support for their negative opinions, to help justify their own negativism...it's a vicious circle that feeds on itself.
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I heard someone at the Grocery store saying how we should have hired Jim Harbaugh because look, he's got his team in the playoffs in his first year....
Well, if we had their players, It might have worked here, but that doesn't seem to matter I guess...
Yea, all the Browns needed was Harbaugh because look what Harbaugh built in SF.
Just one problem, it was not Jim Harbaugh who built this 49er team...it was built in large part by Mike Singeltary and Mike Nolan...who drafted the players that make up a majority of the present SF roster.
Harbaugh walked into a position where much of the hard work and sacrifice was already done by those who proceeded Harbaugh.
The low for the 49ers was 8 yrs ago (2004) and that is when they began to climb their way back to becoming a playoff caliber team...it did not happen when Harbaugh took over.
Note to Browns fans...it took the 49ers 8 yrs to build their team into a playoff team.
You won't get the Cleveland media/talking heads to tell the truth about how long it has taken the 49ers to build their team into a playoff team, because telling the truth does not fit their agenda.
Grossi had an agenda and he exposed that agenda...
Grossi is not alone, either...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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but most of the people on this board, even those with no writing experience, could probably write better than him.
Seriously? Do you read some of this stuff? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Still likely to "fail"...
Really...you believe that?
I should clearify., Still likely to fail at winning the SB.. that is the goal isn't it.
The point of my comment is, What did Lerner do that was so freakin bad..
he inherited the team.. how bad was that?
he tried to find a president with NFL ties so that decisions would be made by someone supposedly more knowledgable than he, how is that bad?
Once leaders were hired, he stayed out of the way of every regime until he couldn't. Isn't that the right thing to do?
he hasn't run, but he has stayed under the radar, it's pretty clear to me that he doesn't care for the spotlight although I'm pretty sure that when the team wins a Superbowl, he'll get up on the Podium and accept the trophy.. bet on it..LOL
The biggest problem is, he hasn't found the right combination of folks to run the franchise.. that's really his only problem., His only mistake. I mean, this current regime has the credentials, but because they didn't come out of the box winning like crazy, the media and as a result, the fan base is questioning if they are the right guys.
Art Rooney had 7 coaches over more than 20 years before he found the right guy in Chuck Noll.. And every coach they've had since has a superbowl ring..
Point is, sometimes you get luckly and right out of the gate, you get the right guy Example, the Cowboys with jimmy Johnson.. and then you hit the skids, dallas won one superbowl after that and it was with the team that johnson put together. and sometimes you are on the skids for years, then you hit on the right guys.. (Modell with the Ravens, Pittsburgh with Noll, Denver with shanahan, NE with Belichick etc etc.)
And you have guys like Grossi that, for whatever reason, has found himself on the outside looking in, so instead of manning up and looking at what he could do to repair the relationship, he decides that he should blast them at every turn.
In other words, he doesn't seem to feel it's his fault.. and frankly, I believe him being on the outs is indeed his fault.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
Really and just why is that? Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
Really and just why is that? Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing.
It can't be explained because it's not based in reality.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
Really and just why is that? Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing.
It can't be explained because it's not based in reality.
I'll explain it.
If you have a laisse faire, absentee attitude at the top with ownership then you have a laisse faire organization.
I'll help anyone that doesn't understand completely.
Everyone in the Browns organization is getting paid. PAID. Holmgren is cashing checks few of us could dream of cashing.
If in the end you're working for a guy who buys another sports franchise, while owning the one you're working for, then maybe a win at all costs attitude does not pervade the organization.
He has a tatoo on his body of a sports team he loves.
A sports team he fell in love with while on their soil in college.
That sports team is not the Cleveland Browns.
The end.
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I suppose you are going to bring up him wearing his little Brown's jammies next.
We know nothing about him.We don't know how he works,we don't if in fact he does get out of the way and let others do thier jobs.
That/s niether good nor bad.All we do know is that he hasnot led the Brown's to wins.Maybe,just maybe,his idea of success is making money,which the Browns are doing for him.We don't know.
I've often wondered if he a pair of jammies from his soccer team,which he grew up a big fan of.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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There is a big group of people who blame Randy and the Lerner family for the last 13 years because they have been the only constant (You could blame Phil Dawson too, using that logic, just sayin').
I think he takes his share. The front office has been nothing but unstable and sketchy since 1999, it actually looks about as in-place as it has been, right now. There is one idea shared amongst the president, general manager, and even yes, Pat Shurmur (he's such an easy target).
I always reference the Browns draft history on profootballreference.com (or any other NFL information outlet) when people ask why it's been 13 years of horrible football. Maybe if we had a great great coach some of those guys would have turned into good players, but let's be real, most of these guys are crap. There are no ten-year pros on that list with the exception of a few, and one of them plays left tackle for us and was a no-brainer first round pick in 2007.
It's about getting the right people in place to draft and sign the right people. Randy and his father failed at that for many years, but I honestly believe with what we have now, he's done right. We're going in the right direction. When this team becomes good, it won't be like 2007 where it was half a year.
I'm also of the sort that I don't really care that he isn't at games, and owns a European soccer club. Good for him, it has nothing to do with football. The man wants to win. Even if he didn't care, winning equals dollars, so that theory is out the window too.
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If you have a laisse faire, absentee attitude at the top with ownership then you have a laisse faire organization.
If in the end you're working for a guy who buys another sports franchise, while owning the one you're working for, then maybe a win at all costs attitude does not pervade the organization.
Held...do you have any idea how many owners of a major sports franchise, own additional sports franchises, in other sports?
Just look up NFL owners and see how many of them also own other sports franchises.
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He has a tatoo on his body of a sports team he loves.
held......So Lerner has a tattoo...and because of that tattoo, you know Lerner is not 100% in support of the Cleveland Browns?...that Lerner is a "laissez-faire" owner?
Maybe you can tell us if Lerner has any other tattoos?
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A sports team he fell in love with while on their soil in college.
That sports team is not the Cleveland Browns.
held...I sure admire those who have the ability to crawl inside Randy Lerner's brain and tell us what he thinks or how he feels about the Cleveland Browns.
Randy Lerner knows he is not the best person "to run" the Cleveland Browns, so he has tried to hire the best available, to manage the Browns...
...IMO, that is a smart move...a wise man knows what he does not know.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
Really and just why is that? Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing.
It can't be explained because it's not based in reality.
I'll explain it.
If you have a laisse faire, absentee attitude at the top with ownership then you have a laisse faire organization.
I'll help anyone that doesn't understand completely.
Everyone in the Browns organization is getting paid. PAID. Holmgren is cashing checks few of us could dream of cashing.
If in the end you're working for a guy who buys another sports franchise, while owning the one you're working for, then maybe a win at all costs attitude does not pervade the organization.
He has a tatoo on his body of a sports team he loves.
A sports team he fell in love with while on their soil in college.
That sports team is not the Cleveland Browns.
The end.
Hel, I know you to be a reasonable guy.. I don't want you to mistake my comments as a sudden dislike for you.. That's not the case. But the line of thinking you are sending out there is born out of frustration..I get that and understand, but it's not based on any facts... (other than the tattoo)
Please take the time to listen to the interiew on WTAM with Lerner from Wednesday..
You will hear the part about how Lerner moved his family from NY to Cleveland. you will hear the part about how he spends most of his time in Berea. you will hear that his office is RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO HOLMGREN.
Did you know that he has over 600 million dollars invested in the Browns. (I don't care that he inherited it.., it's still an investment)
Did you know that the Browns are worth about 892 Million.
Did you know that his net worth is estimated at about 1.2 Billion meaning that the Browns are a HUGE part of his total net worth.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/30/307074.html
*in the interest of fair play, this data is a few years old.
That's a helluva lot of money not to CARE about.
All this guy has tried to do is find the right people to run this orgainzation. He's failed thus far, but that's not for lack of trying or lack of caring.
I Believe that the only reason people think as you do is because they haven't taken the time to look at his actions. They see the results (which are horrible) and think he doesn't care, or that he cares about his soccer team more than the browns.
Many also look at what some wannabe journalists like Grossi (who clearly has an agenda) or Phillip Morris (remember him, the guy that made a big stink about Lerner buying a soccer team as if we have any right to tell him what to do with his money) or WOIO Channel 19 in Cleveland (who also have a grudge against him because he booted them after they were insensitive about his neices drowning) and others that only have one thing they do.. FEED the masses with rhetoric and misinformation such as that which you are stating above.
SO WHAT if he has a tattoo of Aston Villa.. Who cares.. It proves NOTHING other than he likes Aston Villas crest..
As you correctly point out, Lerner is putting the money into the orgainzation. He's paying the folks that run it quite well. VERY well in fact.
You look at that as a negative, I see it as a guy not willing to let money stand in the way of getting where he wants to go.
If there is any negative I can find with Lerner it's that he hasn't found the team of FO people that can get us there.. At least not yet.
Holmgren and Heckert are the real deal IMO, with only 2 years in, I'm not ready to give up on them yet.
This isn't MADDEN.. you can't just plug in All Pros to every slot over night.. This is REAL.., You have to work at it. And as you work at it, you have to be mindful that it's a business..
ONE Thing I"m absolutly sure of when it comes to Randy Lerner.. If Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur don't get it done after some reasonable period of time (I"m thinking all in at 5 or so years), Randy will pick up the ugly stick, fire them all and start over. He won't quit until he gets it done.
Wanna know why? CAUSE HE CARES...
There are other examples of team owners that failed time and again, until they got it right. Look at Art Rooney.. Over 20 years of bad football, 7 head coaches, countless draft failures and he couldn't win a sausage until he found Chuck Noll.
Even then it took them several years and several drafts to get really good.
The Dolphins under Shula didn't come out of the gates like firecrackers. It took time.
I find some measure of comfort that that path has been followed by two of the most successful teams of all time.
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/23/12 11:03 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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held...I sure admire those who have the ability to crawl inside Randy Lerner's brain and tell us what he thinks or how he feels about the Cleveland Browns.
Randy Lerner knows he is not the best person "to run" the Cleveland Browns, so he has tried to hire the best available, to manage the Browns...
...IMO, that is a smart move...a wise man knows what he does not know.
Totally agree, Randy has done many things to turn this franchise around. They didn't work, doesn't mean he isn't trying. This time around he spent 50mil on one man to come and run this org and fix the issues. What else is he suppose to do??
Savage/Crennell was his first hire. When it went down everyone was saying what a great hire Savage was, he was the architect of the Ravens, blah blah blah. Well he wasn't the architect and his drafts were terrible.
I thought RAC was a decent coach but didn't manage the clock well but overall didn't have a lot of talent here. But in the end he didn't win so he was let go. But since then he has succeeded as DC and was awarded another HC job.
Then he brought in Mangini. I think after the Kockinis ordeal Randy knew he made a mistake and brought in Holmgren. Paid him 10mil/year, you know, a football man, to run the franchise.
And people question his commitment? Craziness.
There is no telling if Holgren/Heckertt/Shurmur will pan out. But if it doesn't, then it doesn't mean Lerner didn't care enough.
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You've completely changed my views - I didn't know Lerner had an Aston Villa tattoo. My God the horror. I hope he sells the team immediately to another local billionaire and is on the next plane to jolly old England. We'll no doubt win the next 27 titles. 
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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jc..
To say Randy Lerner doesn't care, or to say it's just a business to him is most likely false based on the premise that he has fired people that he had to continue paying long after. If all he cared about was the business side, then he wouldn't be willing to throw that money away. It's not like he was in any fear of losing profits on the team by keeping these people.
He admitted to not knowing what he is/was doing and relying on advice from trusted people. Regardless of his knowledge of how to run an NFL team, he appears to be trying to get it right.
How many light bulbs failed before Edison got it right?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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To say Randy Lerner doesn't care, or to say it's just a business to him is most likely false based on the premise that he has fired people that he had to continue paying long after. If all he cared about was the business side, then he wouldn't be willing to throw that money away. It's not like he was in any fear of losing profits on the team by keeping these people.
That's an unbelievably great point.
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Different points here !
I don't know of any Dawg that will call the Lerners out for " NOT " writing checks ..
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So, we just need Randy to get a new tattoo and then we're Super Bowl bound!
Damn, I thought we actually had to play good football for that to happen, whew!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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