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Quote:
So, we just need Randy to get a new tattoo and then we're Super Bowl bound!
Damn, I thought we actually had to play good football for that to happen, whew!!
Damn, if that's all it takes, I'm buying him his new Browns Tattoo...LOL
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Very good reply overall.
I was explaining the possible point of view that current ownership could be part of the problem.
Personally I think Randy Lerner stepped up and got the right guy to act as the owner - Mike Holmgren. I think we have a great personnel guy acting as GM...who seems to me terrible at other aspects of the job...but it works because Holmgren is in place. I think we have a guy in over his head this past year as Head Coach. I like Shurmur though as a man from what I glean from everything I've seen and I think he has the ability to be a fantastic HC.
This is the best situation possible with Randy Lerner at the helm.
But.....
I would hope that people here aren't so naive to think that the Browns are his primary interest.
Here's an exercise....
Flip the script.
Al Lerner bought Aston Villa in 1999, bringing it back from the ashes after the team had been moved by it's former owner. Randy Lerner who was raised in England, but had gone to college in Cleveland Ohio, was willed the team after his father passed.
Randy who was a huge Browns fan and had gotten a Brownie tattoo and knew everything there was to know about the Cleveland Browns and football now was trying to figure out soccer and how to successfully run a soccer franchise.
He preferred to spend most of his time in NYC and not in England but Aston Villa is a big part of his personal net worth now.
All of a sudden....
He has the opportunity to buy his favorite team, the Cleveland Browns! Of course he jumps at the chance, spends hundreds of millions of his dollars, and dives in to overhaul the makeup of the franchise.
Now he has to find someone, someone good! to act as the owner of Aston Villa. Maybe a HOF former coach who had acted as a GM and taken two teams to the UEFA? cup? Let's throw money at him. Let him handle that valuable asset that my Dad bought. And let me dive in to my passion that is the Cleveland Browns.
Does that explain my position better?
Do people really think that having Randy Lerner....who buys another sports franchise, on another continent, with his own money, the team that he loves, who he has a tatoo of on his leg...all the while owning the Browns....is just as good as the Mara family or the Rooney family or Robert Kraft or any number of owners who are full in, all in, with the one sports franchise that they bought!
If you do then you're purposely deluding yourselves.
I do think though that we're in the best possible position we could be in now with him as owner.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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Aston Villa fans aren't any happier with him recently. They complain he doesn't talk with the press, doesn't show up at games anymore, and, unsurprisingly, the complaints have come as their team has failed to be able to compete with the Man-U, Man-City, Arsenal, and Chelsea clubs.
#gmstrong
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jc...
Just because someone owns a Ferrari, doesn't mean he knows how to drive it well, repair it, or maintain it.
Does that mean they shouldn't own a Ferrari?
And before you answer, we can all probably think of a dozen people off the tops of our heads with Hondas, Fords, Chevy's in the same scenario.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Plus, in theory, it should be easier to fix a Premier League team as there is no salary cap. Any team with deep pockets could be the NY Yankees of soccer.
I have no problems with RL. He hasn't shown an unwillingness to spend money. He hasn't raised ticket prices like other teams have since we suck. I don't mind him not in the spotlight as long as he gives all of the tools necessary (i.e. money) to MH and Heckert and nothing has shown that he is not willing to do this.
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I was explaining the possible point of view that current ownership could be part of the problem.
Quite honestly Hel, that's not at all what it read like. It read as if you were saying all the problems of the browns rest solely on Lerner..
And that's not at all true..
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Personally I think Randy Lerner stepped up and got the right guy to act as the owner
again, thats not at all what happened. he didn't hire Holmgren to ACT as the owner. He hired Holmgren to run the organization. both adminstratively as well as the product. Something quite a few owners do. In fact, I haven't checked, but I bet most organization are set up in this or a very similar fashion.
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I think we have a great personnel guy acting as GM...who seems to me terrible at other aspects of the job...but it works because Holmgren is in place
What aspects of the job is he terrible at?
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This is the best situation possible with Randy Lerner at the helm.
See, right there you prove that my first impression of your comments were correct.. You blame him for everything.. what that shows me is that you want someone to blame, Grossi told you to blame Lerner and you believed him..
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I would hope that people here aren't so naive to think that the Browns are his primary interest.
I don't know one way or the other if the Browns are his primary interest or not,, nor do I care. I would hope that his wife and kids and family are his primary interests.
but the point is,, who cares, he pays the bills, he hired guys he thinks can do the job and he gets his butt out of the way and lets them work.
What is it, because he doesn't talk to the press or spout off like jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, he must not care. when was the last time you heard from the owners of tampa, or miami or houston or tennesee, or detroit or pittsburgh or....you get the drift.
These are billionaires, they hire people to run thier teams. And when those teams don't perform, they fire those guys and hire new ones.. and the keep doing that until they get a winner.
what the hell else do you want them to do,,, get down on the field and yell at the coach when he makes a bad call, or scream at the QB when he throws a pick? Come on man.. What more do you actually expect from an owner.
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Here's an exercise....
Flip the script
No,, it's a wasted exercise..
here's something for you to think about,
do you think that Randy Lerner is the ONLY NFL Team Owner that has businesses or interests outside the NFL?
I mean, I can only think of one team that has an owner that has no outside interests that are published.. The Rooney Family.. That's it.
I suppose there could be others, but not too many
But what business is it of ours what they do outside of the team.. NONE AT ALL..
And why should we care?
I want to repeat something you said here:
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I was explaining the possible point of view that current ownership could be part of the problem.
No, that's not what you were doing,, you were blaming our team problems on the fact that he owns a soccer club and has a tattoo on his ankle representing that other team,,
If you come up with something concrete,, let me know...but so far, you just sound like a guy that listens to the media hype
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Personally I think Randy Lerner stepped up and got the right guy to act as the owner
again, thats not at all what happened. he didn't hire Holmgren to ACT as the owner.
I think he may be referring to this:
Quote:
The NFL Owners meeting is taking place and Randy Lerner is not attending. In his place the “Big Show” is representing the Cleveland Browns.
LINK
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Plus, in theory, it should be easier to fix a Premier League team as there is no salary cap. Any team with deep pockets could be the NY Yankees of soccer.
I have no problems with RL. He hasn't shown an unwillingness to spend money. He hasn't raised ticket prices like other teams have since we suck. I don't mind him not in the spotlight as long as he gives all of the tools necessary (i.e. money) to MH and Heckert and nothing has shown that he is not willing to do this.
Totally agree. My only beef with him is that he should have done the team president thing a long time ago. Like as soon as his father passed and he didn't want to be that involved with dtd operations.
But he eventually got it right. Even if Holmgren doesn't work out, he will most likely bring in someone else to take over as president. That's all we can ask for.
I think he cares more than people think, who's to say he stays out of the media and dtd stuff, so that the job seems desirable? If you're an up and coming general manager, who would you rather work for, Randy Lerner or Jerry Jones?
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Dude....breathe in, breathe out.  I'm not quite sure why I'm going to do this but here goes: Quote:
It read as if you were saying all the problems of the browns rest solely on Lerner..
And that's not at all true..
The guy posting directly above my original post said...
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Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing....It can't be explained because it's not based in reality.
Therefore I laid it out that it could be a main problem with the Browns losing.
I DIDN'T COME UP WITH THAT POST FROM THIN AIR!
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again, thats not at all what happened. he didn't hire Holmgren to ACT as the owner. He hired Holmgren to run the organization. both adminstratively as well as the product. Something quite a few owners do. In fact, I haven't checked, but I bet most organization are set up in this or a very similar fashion.
When there is an owners meeting, there are 30 owners at that meeting. Green Bay has their team president there because they are publicly owned. And Holmgren is sitting in, acting as owner, for Randy Lerner.
WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THERE!
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What aspects of the job is he (Heckert) terrible at?
One of the biggest jobs of the General Manager is to set the direction of the franchise. He also is the main go-to source for the media. He also is the direct boss of the Head Coach. Most importantly to me he is in charge of player acquisition. I think his talent is here...but he does none of the rest to my knowledge and is about as poorly trained media wise as any GM I can remember.
If Holmgren were not here, and the white hot spotlight of going 5-11, 4-12 was on him he'd be in a world of hurt right now.
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This is the best situation possible with Randy Lerner at the helm....
See, right there you prove that my first impression of your comments were correct.. You blame him for everything.. what that shows me is that you want someone to blame, Grossi told you to blame Lerner and you believed him..
Are you 8 years old? I don't blame him for everything. Where did I say that? When Greg Little drops a pass, I curse Lerner. When Shaun Lauvao gets a personal foul penalty you can bet your ass it's Randy's fault.
Seriously now...I don't know if you have a real mental issue here so I'll just move on.
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I was explaining the possible point of view that current ownership could be part of the problem.
No, that's not what you were doing,, you were blaming our team problems on the fact that he owns a soccer club and has a tattoo on his ankle representing that other team,,
If you come up with something concrete,, let me know...but so far, you just sound like a guy that listens to the media hype
Well sorry you know what I was doing and I don't
Congrats!
Does anyone have any media hype for sale? I'm hungry. Out to find out the latest Grossi article so I know what to say next.
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Just to be clear.
1. I think the case that current ownership is part of the problem with the Cleveland Browns lack of success is justifiable and based on reality.
That's the only reason I posted what I did. That position in my mind is defensible. Therefore I laid out a defense.
2. I love our front office and coaching staff. With a talented, young OC in place I think we'll be fine and can win a SuperBowl in the future.
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I agree with #1, but would add that change in ownership doesn't necessarily correct #1 either. Thankfully, #1 seems to be on the right track of getting #2 correct this time. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
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Personally I think Randy Lerner stepped up and got the right guy to act as the owner
again, thats not at all what happened. he didn't hire Holmgren to ACT as the owner.
I think he may be referring to this:
Quote:
The NFL Owners meeting is taking place and Randy Lerner is not attending. In his place the “Big Show” is representing the Cleveland Browns.
LINK
No, I don't think he was referring to that at all..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Just to be clear.
1. I think the case that current ownership is part of the problem with the Cleveland Browns lack of success is justifiable and based on reality.
That's the only reason I posted what I did. That position in my mind is defensible. Therefore I laid out a defense.
2. I love our front office and coaching staff. With a talented, young OC in place I think we'll be fine and can win a SuperBowl in the future.
And I disagree with number 1.. the reason is, you say he's the problem.. no he's not.. He is responsible however.. there is a difference.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yes I was referring to that. Hello...  McFly!
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Quote:
Yes I was referring to that.
Hello... McFly!
Oh come on Hel.. 
I said it before, Your a good guy and I like ya and all.. And I think you are MORE than smart enough to have said that if you meant that..
No, I think you wanna put all the blame on Lerner.. Not sure why, but that's pretty clear at this point..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
again, thats not at all what happened. he didn't hire Holmgren to ACT as the owner. He hired Holmgren to run the organization. both adminstratively as well as the product. Something quite a few owners do. In fact, I haven't checked, but I bet most organization are set up in this or a very similar fashion.
When there is an owners meeting, there are 30 owners at that meeting. Green Bay has their team president there because they are publicly owned. And Holmgren is sitting in, acting as owner, for Randy Lerner.
WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THERE!
Did you read what I wrote? 
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I'm not ad guy and you don't like me,so we can right down to business.
Lerner is the guy that was hell bent on hiring RAC.Heis the guy that was hell bent on hiring Savage.He was drooling at the prospect of hiring Mangini.
All of those hires blew up in his face.
One can only deduce that his decision making sucks,and he has been the main decision maker since 2006,therefore most of the blame lies with him.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
I'm not ad guy and you don't like me,so we can right down to business.
Lerner is the guy that was hell bent on hiring RAC.Heis the guy that was hell bent on hiring Savage.He was drooling at the prospect of hiring Mangini.
All of those hires blew up in his face.
One can only deduce that his decision making sucks,and he has been the main decision maker since 2006,therefore most of the blame lies with him.
yeah, right,, I don't dislike you, but I'm not your biggest fan either.
As for Lerner not hitting on everyone or for that matter, anyone he's hired, it sure looks bad, until you look at those he's hired.
Collins: Lots of league experience working for the NFL. Supposedly a good business guy with marketing skills. What should tell you everything is that he was recommended by Carman Policy..
Savage: what wasn't to like, he started out with the Browns, had experience working for a successful organization in baltimore working for a pretty darn strong GM in Ozzie Newsome.
Crennel: the man had 5 superbowl rings that he earned in several different positions with the Giants and the Patrioits.
Mangini: Again, he was a pretty darn successful DC in New England and he had a decent record (would have been better had Favre not fallen apart) in NY.. he's known as a smart guy who came from a successful organization.
Kokanis: He also had the credentials and he had the blessings (not that this is right) from the new HC.
All of those guys had the credentials. There wasn't a bum guy in the bunch..
Why would he not hire them...
And PLEASE don't give me that hindsight garbage..
Now we have Holmgren who in turn hired Heckert. They decided to keep Mangini and I believe it was the right decision at the time.
THEY made the switch to Shumur.
As of this moment, I don't know if this regime will work out or not.. I think it's too early to know.
so tell me again, without benefit of hindsight, who on that list would you have not hired based on credentials?
this I gotta hear..
Oh,, and if there is any dislike for you, it's because you decided to tell me that using this  made me look foolish..
You started it..
From your comments which weren't very well communicated or thought out, I can only deduce that you have no clue
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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According to thier credentials,all of those hires should have been successful.Yet,they all failed.
What is the constant thread that runs thru all of the hires?
We were talking about where to place blame for past failures,your post should go along way in proving it to be Lerner.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Just to be clear.
1. I think the case that current ownership is part of the problem with the Cleveland Browns lack of success is justifiable and based on reality.
That's the only reason I posted what I did. That position in my mind is defensible. Therefore I laid out a defense.
2. I love our front office and coaching staff. With a talented, young OC in place I think we'll be fine and can win a SuperBowl in the future.
held...you say this...
2. " I love our front office and coaching staff. With a talented, young OC in place I think we'll be fine and can win a SuperBowl in the future."
If you believe what say above in #2, how can Lerner be part of the problem?
...after all, it was Lerner who hired Holmgren to run his franchise and it was Holmgren who put together the front office and is directly or indirectly responsible for the hiring of the coaching staff.
Other than getting a Browns tattoo, what else do you want Lerner to do?
Also, you say this earlier in the thread
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Do people really think that having Randy Lerner....who buys another sports franchise, on another continent, with his own money, the team that he loves, who he has a tattoo of on his leg...all the while owning the Browns....is just as good as the Mara family or the Rooney family or Robert Kraft or any number of owners who are full in, all in, with the one sports franchise that they bought!
held...surely you know that Robert Kraft owns a Major League Soccer (MLS) soccer team in addition to owning the Patriots? Kraft owns the New England Revolution, which he acquired in 1996.
Held...many NFL owners also own other sports franchises...here are some of them...
Pat Bowlen-Broncos
...Denver Outlaws...Major League Lacrosse
...Colorado Crush...Arena Football League's ...part owner.
Malcolm Glazer-Tampa Bay Bucs
...Manchester (England) United Football (soccer) Club
Lamar Hunt-KC Chiefs...past owner of the Chiefs (died in 2006)
...Founder/owner of Chicago Bulls
...Charter Investor of Major League Soccer
...Founder/owner of Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs
...Founder/owner of Columbus Crew
...Owner of MLS FC Dallas
...Founder/previous owner MLS Kansas City Wizard
Clark Hunt-current owner of the KC Chiefs
...Owner of MLS FC Dallas
...Owner of MLS Columbus Crew
Art Blank-Falcons
...Arena Football League franchise, the Georgia Force
Ralph Wilson-Bills
...breeder/owner of Thoroughbred race horses in France and the United States.
Paul Allen-Seahawks
...owner Portland Trail Blazers NBA
...part owner MLS, Seattle Sounders FC
As everyone can see, Randy Lerner is not alone when it comes to owning multiple sports teams...many of his fellow NFL owners have interest in owning multiple sport franchises
I have absolutely no reason to doubt Randy Lerner's commitment to the Cleveland Browns.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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held...surely you know that Robert Kraft owns a Major League Soccer (MLS) soccer team in addition to owning the Patriots? Kraft owns the New England Revolution, which he acquired in 1996.
I did not know that he owns an MLS soccer team.
And don't call me shirley.
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Held...many NFL owners also own other sports franchises...here are some of them...
Pat Bowlen-Broncos
...Denver Outlaws...Major League Lacrosse
...Colorado Crush...Arena Football League's ...part owner.
Malcolm Glazer-Tampa Bay Bucs
...Manchester (England) United Football (soccer) Club
Lamar Hunt-KC Chiefs...past owner of the Chiefs (died in 2006)
...Founder/owner of Chicago Bulls
...Charter Investor of Major League Soccer
...Founder/owner of Dallas Texans/Kansas City Chiefs
...Founder/owner of Columbus Crew
...Owner of MLS FC Dallas
...Founder/previous owner MLS Kansas City Wizard
Clark Hunt-current owner of the KC Chiefs
...Owner of MLS FC Dallas
...Owner of MLS Columbus Crew
Art Blank-Falcons
...Arena Football League franchise, the Georgia Force
Ralph Wilson-Bills
...breeder/owner of Thoroughbred race horses in France and the United States.
Paul Allen-Seahawks
...owner Portland Trail Blazers NBA
...part owner MLS, Seattle Sounders FC
As everyone can see, Randy Lerner is not alone when it comes to owning multiple sports teams...many of his fellow NFL owners have interest in owning multiple sport franchises
I have absolutely no reason to doubt Randy Lerner's commitment to the Cleveland Browns.
I knew the Hunts' had a lot of irons in the fire. I was aware of Paul Allen owning the Blazers. Didn't know about Bowlen's interests or that of Blake or Ralph Wilson.
The one obviously that is similar is Glazer's ownership of Man U. And isn't he beloved by Tampa Bay.
I think Stan Kroenke, Rams owner, owns a EPL team as well, Arsenal? Rams fans love that he owns the team too.
There's a difference between owning another franchise that shares the stadium you own or something along those lines.
Man U, Arsenal and Aston Villa are big time sports franchises with huge, devout global fan bases...much like the Browns. There's a big time $$$ and time commitment there for a purchasing owner.
An MLS team or an Arena League football team....ummm not so much.
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I don't know why this is such a sore issue for so many people here. It's like a bruise that everyone knows exists. And when I poke it it's like there's a cacophony of folks saying it doesn't hurt.
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Yeah Arsenal was just bought within the last 2 years. Big time EPL team.
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As a journalist, yes he went too far assuming that his twitter account is work related. Do I disagree with him....not really. I've long said the main problem with the Browns is Lerner.
Really and just why is that? Explain please how Lerner has been the main problem with the Browns losing.
It can't be explained because it's not based in reality.
I think others have summed it up pretty well. He's the CEO of a corporation that he does not personally MANAGE. For 10 years he hired people and assumed that everyone would get along and play fair and do what's best for the team....that didn't happen. I don't know what he's been like for the past year or two but up until recent (and maybe including now) he's been invested with his wallet but not with his time, focus, energy. Writing checks DOES NOT make you a good owner just like showing up at work on time doesn't make you a good employee, it's a start but there's a lot more to it. Maybe he won't/can't be that owner because he doesn't have the talent??
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Quote:
According to thier credentials,all of those hires should have been successful.Yet,they all failed.
What is the constant thread that runs thru all of the hires?
We were talking about where to place blame for past failures,your post should go along way in proving it to be Lerner.
Ahh Yes, the benefit of hindsight.. Beautiful
The point was, if you were the owner of the browns, and you hired those folks, at the time of the hire, it would have been hard to find a lotta fault with them.
But, as it happens, those guys didn't work out. So, you want to blame the owner for the failings of those he hired?
Look, lerner has said that he's responsible. it's his job to hire the right people.
But when you hire folks that by all measureable criteria, are good, solid guys with verifiable experience.. What the hell else can you do.
Sure, it's easy as hell to say, we should have hired this guy, or we should have hired that guy.. all after the fact.
If Lerner had hired me, a guy with no experence.. Then yeah,, he's the dummy.
But that's not what he did. He hired good, sound people with credentials..
it didn't work..
you move on to the next group.. and if that don't work, you go get another group.. and so on and so on.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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good post hel, but why do you think Shurmur will be good? Not being sarcastic...I am not sold on him but am willing to see what he can do with more talent.
Go Browns!
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I'm going to cut and paste something from Nov 10 that I wrote to save time: Quote:
Pat Shurmur
Starting Center for Michigan State, 3 years, 4.0 GPA, Co-Captain his Senior Year
23 years of coaching experience
12 years of NFL coaching experience
Offensive Coordinator for St. Louis Rams - Bradford threw for the second most yards in rookie history in 2010
QB Coach with Philadelphia Eagles from 1999-2008
His background and history portend well.
I think calls for his head right now are off base and while the product on the field has been almost unwatchable I'm prepared to hold off beginning to evaluate the HC position until there's more to evaluate.
Basically I think he's a high character guy, with a quality background, well steeped in the WCO.
I have a feeling that they could only install the most basic elements of the offense due to the inexperience of the WRs and QB. Add to that zero training camp / offseason.
I think he's smart. He seems like an honest chap. He's the kind of coach that I respected as a player.
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And he has always said he doenst have the talent. You cant blame him for that admitting what he knew. He tried to make all the right hires and let those people take care of his buisness. That can not make him the problem with the Browns. The problem with the Browns is the people he hired did a horrid job at doing what they were hired to do.
Probably the biggest mistake he ever made was listening to us the fans to much.
I remember being down at the stadium when I first heard they were going to fire Savage. Everyone was pissed as heck. RAC said he would quit if they let go of Savage. Randy listened to us the fans and fired Collins. Its was a classic power play and in hind sight it looks like Collins was right about Savage and firing him.
Remember Randy talking to all the Browns fans about what they wanted and how to make the team better? Yeah he dosnt care about the Browns or us fans at all.
Im not mopping up what some of you are laying down as the MAIN problem with the Browns is Randy Lerner.
Now you want to talk about an owner being the main problem with a team? We had him here once, his name was.............Ted Stepien.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
There's a difference between owning another franchise that shares the stadium you own or something along those lines.
Heldawg...I believe I made my point !
Some may have thought Randy Lerner was the lone NFL owner involved in sports ventures outside of NFL football. The facts paint a much different picture showing several owners involved in multiple sports ventures.
There are NFL owners who have other sporting interests and pursue them while being good NFL owners at the same time. Some of those owners had NFL teams competing in the playoffs as well as the Super Bowl...Bucs, Broncos, Chiefs, Falcons, Seahawks.
Some NFL owners are involved in other interests outside of football/sports that require them to divide their time. The point is, thinking or claiming NFL owners with other interests besides football can't do both, is wrong!
In Cleveland, some in the media as well as some fans, must have someone to "blame". Maybe some see Lerner as an easy target, even if the facts do not back up their claims.
Randy Lerner was not the reason the Browns had a poor season.
Last edited by mac; 01/24/12 03:16 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
In Cleveland, some in the media as well as some fans, must have someone to "blame". Maybe some see Lerner as an easy target, even if the facts do not back up their claims.
Randy Lerner was not the reason the Browns had a poor season
I gotta tell you mac,, I think you are exactly right with those two statements.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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lerner has hired people with the credentials to run an nfl franchise.
He replaced them when they didn't produce results.
He screwed up the order a bit with mangini being hired first.
He recognized that the front office was never on the same page, and that our drafting was sub-par.
He then went out and spoke to holmgren...hired him to build a solid front office, and let him do his thing.
gm thats on the same page....check
head coach thats on the same page....check
many experienced assistants that are on the same page....check....
what else is needed?
successful drafts.....consistency in the schemes....and time.....
I think lerner got it right...here's to hoping he goes and watches some soccer and lets this team develop into a perennial winner.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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So if he continues to make bad hires and poor decisions, how long are you going to give him? Another 5 years of losing? 10? 15?
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Quote:
So if he continues to make bad hires and poor decisions, how long are you going to give him? Another 5 years of losing? 10? 15?
Well seeing as he owns the team I would say as long as it takes for him to find the right guys.
And again has he hired bad guys at the time? Everyone loved his hires when hes made them (maybe mangini not so much but I like it at the time) so hindsight being 20/20 I guess Modell should have stayed keep BB and we wouldnt be talking about this. We would be the winners of at least 1 SB already.
I think your as has been said before looking for someone to blame and after not being able to find that person your going after the owner which is what the media wants you to do. Me I perfer to walk my own path I dont need others to lead me nor tell me how to think/feel.
Just as I like Heckert and think that is lone postitive that MH has brougth to this team. I still think Randy has done what he thought was the correct thing to do and isnt the MAIN PROBLEM with this team.
I still have not seen anyone explain how Randy Lerner is the MAIN PROBLEM with this team and my offer still stands explain why and how hes the MAIN PROBLEM with this team.
Barring Tatoo's
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I agree wholeheartedly what you've been saying. If Lerner was running a business, not based on loyalty so much, he would be out of business in my opinion. The product has been atrocious since he's been in charge. I know he doesn't pick the players, but the bucks stops at him, when he doesn't get the right people in place. Other than cashing the checks, that's his main job, and he's failed miserably. I hope this regime could get it done, but in a division with football royalty like the steelers and ravens, I'm not so sure.
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Hearing about this tattoo.. I was interested on finding a pic on it....all I found was it's to be on his right ankle... Came across some interesting reads on Randy and this is one of them.. not the hole read... just parts.. Seems fans of the Aston Villa think the same as fans here... "The fans worship the ground Randy walks on. He can't do anything wrong. He's got the common touch, and it seems like he genuinely cares." Imagine then the quizzical looks that must have been shared at Villa Park in recent weeks at the emergence of a disconnect between the American and a small minority of Villa supporters who have begun to criticise the very characteristics that have made him so popular, accusing him of being an absentee landlord and of falling out of love with the club. True, he has spent less time at Villa Park than in the past, but the suggestion that he has lost interest just earns laughs at the club. The NFL side he inherited following his father's death seven years ago - the Cleveland Browns - have been going through tough times and Lerner has had to concentrate on that. Browns fans, naturally, are just as concerned that Lerner is more interested in football as their Villa cousins are that he has NFL in his heart. For those unconvinced, the absence of transfer stories this month is seen as further evidence of his loss of interest. Those with longer memories, however, will recall that it was always his intention to spend less this year. In the one appearance he made for the press last year, Lerner explained he had a year-on-year plan, which he intended to stick to regardless of last season's success. "When we set out to build the club we expected year four to mean more modest spending than year three," he explained last May. "I'm thinking more in terms of what we had planned to do, rather than checking to see if a bank account has less money in it." That said, he still spent in excess of £40 million in the summer. It is one of the idiosyncrasies of the sport that as his club stand on the verge of the Carling Cup final, he faces doubts from fans. If his tattoo on his right ankle, of the Villa crest, was not enough, he spent Christmas snowed in in Warwickshire, and he will be at Villa Park this evening. Perhaps those suspicious fans would do well to consider the possible alternatives. link
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Quote:
I agree wholeheartedly what you've been saying. If Lerner was running a business, not based on loyalty so much, he would be out of business in my opinion. The product has been atrocious since he's been in charge. I know he doesn't pick the players, but the bucks stops at him, when he doesn't get the right people in place. Other than cashing the checks, that's his main job, and he's failed miserably. I hope this regime could get it done, but in a division with football royalty like the steelers and ravens, I'm not so sure.
I think part of the problem is we started off in the hole, and haven't been able to get out footing yet. The Steelers have a vast history, and even during a couple down years here and there, had continuity from their past in the organization. The Ravens, well they had it too, it just moved offices from Cleveland to Baltmore.
We started as a new company coming out of the ground. It takes time to get the right people in place to grow the company, sadly it is taking us longer than we would like, and Al Lerner's death didn't help that progress either, it basically put us back to step 1.
The Texans just 3 years younger than us, have had only 2 HCs, and a pretty consistent front office, are just now getting things together, and have drafted 4 1st round pro-bowlers since they started (2003-Andre Johnson, 2004-Jason Babin, 2006-Mario Williams, 2009-Brian Cushing) and yet have a 65-95 record since 2002. (we are 56-104 in that same time)
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Woah.... he's out. Quote:
Sources: Tony Grossi Pulled from Browns Beat Over Randy Lerner Tweet
POSTED BY VINCE GRZEGOREK ON WED, JAN 25, 2012 AT 2:07 PM
Multiple sources tell Scene Tony Grossi is no longer the Browns beat writer for the Plain Dealer as of today.
Last week, Grossi accidentally tweeted the following about Randy Lerner: "He is a pathetic figure, the most irrelevant billionaire in the world." He has lost his post as a result of that.
He was in hot water with his editors and bosses at the PD over the inadvertent tweet, which displayed a huge bias, hatred even, toward the Browns' owner.
There was an obvious question whether he could objectively continue to cover the beat, one which the Plain Dealer weighed in on today with the move.
Managing Editor Thomas Fladung had no comment when reached by Scene.
Cleveland Scene
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
He was in hot water with his editors and bosses at the PD over the inadvertent tweet, which displayed a huge bias, hatred even, toward the Browns' owner.
There was an obvious question whether he could objectively continue to cover the beat, one which the Plain Dealer weighed in on today with the move.
LOL,, thats freakin rich.. in the last 12 years, there never was a time that Grossi was objective... Nothing new.. it just took the PD 12 years to figure it out.
Been saying it for years,, Grossi had/has it in for the Lerners and the Browns..
ya know what's funny, a man of integrity would have pulled himself off the browns beat if he found himself unable to be objective.. or at least ask to be removed..
to me, this is absolute proof positive that Grossi is NOT a man of integrity......
I'm not the least bit disappointed.. But a man lost his job, so I'm not going to stand up and applaud either.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hey Tony,, Tweet Tweet ...
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it didn't say that he was fired, only that he's no longer the Browns Beat reporter. Even if he was fired, I won't feel a single bit of sympathy, nor empathy.
All I can say is that it's about time. He's been worthless as a reporter for years.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Tony Grossi - Gone too far?
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