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Theres talk about trading up and trading back, but not alot of talking about trading FOR people... Already in the NFL...
The discussion of trading for Flynn is basically over as Green Bay probably isn't going to tag him...
Someone who, while is a FA, that may be tagged, That I would love to take a look at for a sign/tag and trade if we can't sign him ourselves is Mario Williams.
The reports say the Texans are going to make Williams their highest priority, but with them moving to a 3-4, and him being a natural 4-3 DE, I wonder if theres a chance we could pry him away.
Would you give up the #22 for Mario Williams? I would in a heartbeat, which means it'd probably cost more than that.
But picturing Sheard on one side and Williams on the other, our Starting Dline would be set for at least 5 years...
How much would you give up for a guy like Mario, Obviously we could just go out and sign him if possible...
So is there anyone else in the league you'd be interested in trading for?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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To tag him would cost the Texans 22 million. They ain't happening. I think he will test the market. I say we make him a very rich man.
As for trades, keep an eye on teams looking to change schemes or coaches. Soon teams will start shopping their talent. I dont see us targeting anyone in particular right now but it will get interesting soon.
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If he wants to work against the worlds best pass protector every day in practice, and hone his craft, what better place than to do it here!  Signing Mario Williams really would make my day. Add in another good CB and a WILL LBer (see below) and this defense is set. All that would have to be added is rotational talent and a great FS sometime in the future.
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The thing about 07 was that we came out of nowhere because we had ZRO expectations...
If we bring in guys like Flynn, and Williams, and draft well, the more people that start talking about us I think is actually worse for us as a team...
The other side of that, is that over the passed 5 years, teams that "came out of nowhere" (us in 07, KC and TB last year etc) fell off really quickly...
I think we could easily make Mario a rich man, but if you're Mario, wouldn't you take less to stay indoors, on a playoff team, that had one of the better defenses even without you on it?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'd trade atlanta's 1 and 4 for Williams. Mario Williams, phil Taylor, and Greg little for Julio jones and whoever KC picked with our 3 last year? (I'm still pretending Marecic never happened.)
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I believe it was Justin Houston, LB out of Georgia...
**googles**
Yep, He played in all 16 games, 56 Tackles, with a FF and FR...
Hm.. That could of been helpfull...
(I really wish we hadn't traded up for Phil, part of me assumes he'd of been where we were...)
Last edited by OSGuy; 01/19/12 09:20 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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To tag him would cost the Texans 22 million. They ain't happening. I think he will test the market.
That is 100% false. It will be $10 million.
The tag is 120% of his previous base salary, not cap hit, which is where many people have gotten the $18 million from.
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just asking because I dont know but your saying that tagging someone is 120% of their base , no signing bonus etc? No wonder those guys hate getting tagged.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Yes. Everything I have ever read says salary, not cap hit.
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I think he will test the market. I say we make him a very rich man.
As I recall, I was the first one to mention that Mario Williams was a free agent and worth making a very wealthy man. Do you think he'd settle for 5 years for $50 million or would it take more? Would you offer him 5 years and $60 million?
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As for trades, keep an eye on teams looking to change schemes or coaches. Soon teams will start shopping their talent. I dont see us targeting anyone in particular right now but it will get interesting soon.
No arguments about that at all. You're absolutely right.
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The 120% is if fit with the tag for a 2nd year in a row. I didn't think he was tagged last year, iirc. First year tags are equal to the average of the top five at that position, and DE is a big time $ position, but Houston had him as a OLB in their 34, so could be some friction on that point.
Perhaps all this changed in the new CBA, but didn't think it had.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Do you think he'd settle for 5 years for $50 million or would it take more? Would you offer him 5 years and $60 million?
I would assume 5 years and $80M as long as the injury checks out -- Charles Johnson got 6/76 and Williams is clearly better.
~Lyuokdea
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He'll get somewhere between what Johnson got and what Peppers got.
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Quote:
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To tag him would cost the Texans 22 million. They ain't happening. I think he will test the market.
That is 100% false. It will be $10 million.
The tag is 120% of his previous base salary, not cap hit, which is where many people have gotten the $18 million from.
Isn't the rule that you get the 120% base salary or the average of the top five players at your position, whichever one is greater is the one you get.
Last year the top five average for defensive ends was $12,398,000.
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To tag him would cost the Texans 22 million. They ain't happening. I think he will test the market. I say we make him a very rich man.
As for trades, keep an eye on teams looking to change schemes or coaches. Soon teams will start shopping their talent. I dont see us targeting anyone in particular right now but it will get interesting soon.
Quarterback: $14.4 million (down from $16.1 million in 2011, $16.4 million in 2010); Drew Brees
Running back: $7.7 million (down from $9.6 million in 2011, $8.2 million in 2010); Matt Forte, Ray Rice
Wide receiver: $9.4 million (down from 11.4 million in 2011, $9.5 million in 2010); DeSean Jackson, Vincent Jackson*, Steve Johnson, Wes Welker
Tight end: $5.4 million (down from $7.3 million in 2011, $5.9 million in 2010); Fred Davis, Jermichael Finley
Offensive line: $9.4 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $10.7 million in 2010); Ben Grubbs, Carl Nicks
Defensive end: $10.6 million (down from $13 million in 2011, $12.4 million in 2010); Jason Jones, Mario Williams*
Defensive tackle: $7.9 million (down from $12.5 million in 2011; it was $7 million in 2010); Paul Soliai*
Linebacker: $8.8 million (down from $10.1 million in 2011, $9.7 million in 2010); Stephen Tulloch
Cornerback: $10.6 million (down from $13.5 million in 2011; tag was $9.6 million in 2010); Cortland Finnegan, Brent Grimes
Safety: $6.2 million (down from $8.8 million in 2011, $6.5 million in 2010); LaRon Landry
* - Player who'd receive more money because it'd be his second year in a row on the franchise tag, meaning he'd make 120 percent of his 2011 salary
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...e-board-in-2012
Williams is the ONLY FA I would give 5 years and 80M to...
Go Browns!!!
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Regardless of what position Williams is "tagged" at, he is going to have made more than the tag amount, and thus, as I understand the rules, would have to be franchised at 120% of his 2011 contract value. (because that would be higher than the average of the top 5 players at either position)
Williams, from what I can find, made almost $14 million in base salary this year. Since he gets the higher of either the average of the top 5 at his position, or 120% of his previous year's salary, he should be in line for a franchise tender of $16.8 million, regardless of what anyone else makes, and regardless of what position value they franchise him under.
That's a lotta cheese for one player, especially one who doesn't play QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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just for the record. everything coming out of houston is stating they fully expect Mario Williams to be tagged and bagged (that is traded).
this is different than Flynn whereas there is mixed reports in GB (they are closer to the cap, have another player they need to tag, etc.)
#gmstrong
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Would they take the 22nd pick for him straight up? Id make that offer in a heartbeat!
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I have a feeling if Houston is going to trade him to us, they'd want our pick at no. 4. If we're going to give them 22, we're likely going to have to supply players they want and/or quite a few additional draft picks.
If the price was right, I'd do it. But I'd hate to give up a ton of picks and possibly lose good current players, too.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I have a feeling if Houston is going to trade him to us, they'd want our pick at no. 4. If we're going to give them 22, we're likely going to have to supply players they want and/or quite a few additional draft picks.
I can't think of a single motivation that Houston would have to trade him... why create a hole that would be very difficult to fill?
If he leaves for a ton of money then there might not be much they can do about it but why even consider trading him?
If Schaub is healthy, Houston might be the most balanced team in the NFL.. it's not like they have a ton of glaring needs to fill, why create one?
yebat' Putin
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not to mention you would have to sign the guy to a long term contract and if his tagged price is around 16mil its not going to be cheap. Eats up alot of cap space.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I agree 100%. The only way they probably consider a trade is if someone is willing to give up a ton, and probably a first round pick that they can spend on a guy to replace Williams.
I can't imagine what that price tag would be.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a feeling if Houston is going to trade him to us, they'd want our pick at no. 4. If we're going to give them 22, we're likely going to have to supply players they want and/or quite a few additional draft picks.
I can't think of a single motivation that Houston would have to trade him... why create a hole that would be very difficult to fill?
If he leaves for a ton of money then there might not be much they can do about it but why even consider trading him?
If Schaub is healthy, Houston might be the most balanced team in the NFL.. it's not like they have a ton of glaring needs to fill, why create one?
because he missed 1/2 a season and their defense didn't miss a beat by putting Brooks Reed in his place.
he's an extremely expensive piece in a 3-4 defense and his value is greater to a 4-3 defense.
because while they do have a balanced team, they also do have holes that they would like to fill and they think that they can entice a team to give up multiple picks for Mario.
--------------------------------
i don't think that we will give up those picks nor do I want us too, but I do think that some team will and Houston will happily take them.
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Would they take the 22nd pick for him straight up? Id make that offer in a heartbeat!
I wouldn't. I would make it a 3rd round pick, a second round pick based on certain qualifiers and a 1st rounder if Mario Williams signs a minimum 3-year deal after the 'tagged year'.
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I love how people actually think we are going to sign Mario Williams. And then when we don't they will go nuts. It's going to be awesome.
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I don't think anyone said we were going to  However most people probably will go nuts if there is a chance and we don't even make an attempt.
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People will go nuts if there isn't a chance and we don't make an attempt. Mario Williams is a guy you go get when he is the final piece to the puzzle, not when you are in the middle of a rebuild.
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I love Mario and really would love to see him in Cleveland... duno if we'd make that move though because I think it'll take a pretty penny to get him. Houston will make him a decent offer I think but not top dollar... they need to sign Foster and just don't see them spending a ton of money on Williams when their defense did so well without him this year.
He'd be a beast in their defense though... we'll see...
<><
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People will go nuts if there isn't a chance and we don't make an attempt. Mario Williams is a guy you go get when he is the final piece to the puzzle, not when you are in the middle of a rebuild.
This is so true I should make the 1st 15 words and make them my sig. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Mario Williams is a guy you go get when he is the final piece to the puzzle, not when you are in the middle of a rebuild.
Yeah, because getting a proven impact player at a premium position who is only 26 years old is no way to build a team.
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I think you totally ignored the 1st part of his post.
It would take a huge amount to get him probably our 1st round #4 pick plus then you have to actually be able to sign the guy long term and finally you are killing a huge amount of cap space on 1 player.
Now if Texas wants to do a sign and bag for our 2nd I would think about it but I dont think that giving up 1st round picks is going the be the direction Heckert is going to take on basically free agents.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'd posted earlier that I would happily trade both of Atlanta's picks for Williams. Would you rather hope you get Mercilus at 22 and live with whatever he turns into along with another Marecic-like player? Or would you rather have a dominant RDE who demands a TE double-team or RB chip freeing up Sheard and Taylor to make a mess in the backfield? For me, that's an easy call.
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Im sure Dick wouldnt complain as well about that trade.  Question is and I dont see them taking only the 22nd and a 4th for him could we sign him long term? I still think Heckert likes Draft picks, thats what he does. He is building a team and if he thinks that the value is on his side Im sure he would make a move. On the other side of the coin if he doesnt see the value on our side he wont make the move. Texas isnt going to give up a top tier player for a low 1st and 4th round pick all IMHO. Finally lets say we take Wright or Minni at that spot we have our bookend corners now or a threat for our QB (whoever that is) for the next decade to keep building around instead of a DE that is here for 4 years and when we finally start to get good is gone. So if we can get him for our 2nd round pick Im on board, I may not even complain about the 2 Atlanta picks but I dont see either of those happening on Texas's part it takes 2 to dance. We are no longer re-building the structure has been torn down. Now we in full blown building mode. The foundation is set the corner stone is in place. The floor joist are layed down and now its time to put the plywood down and then build the walls with studs. Question becomes do you use aged wood at greater cost and less new wood on those walls and studs.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I love how people actually think we are going to sign Mario Williams. And then when we don't they will go nuts. It's going to be awesome.
We have as good a shot at signing him as any team except for Houston (because they could slap a tag on him). If Mario Williams signs with the highest bidder, we stand a decent chance if the FO actually pursues him.
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People will go nuts if there isn't a chance and we don't make an attempt. Mario Williams is a guy you go get when he is the final piece to the puzzle, not when you are in the middle of a rebuild.
If we signed him, it would just about sew up the Browns defensive needs. Of course, we could always use depth at every position, but we need a pass rushing DE and we need an OLB.
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If Luck, RGIII, then Kalil or Claiborne, how about #4 for Mario Williams and #26? And they can take Blackmon? I think I'd do it.
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Schaub throwing to Blackmon, Andre, and Owens w/ Arian and Tate running the ball?
not only would we get a stud DE and still have a pick to grab a lesser WR (Sanu perhaps to make sure we get him), but we absolutely screw over the current contending windows of Baltimore and Pitt? Sign me up.
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If Luck, RGIII, then Kalil or Claiborne, how about #4 for Mario Williams and #26? And they can take Blackmon? I think I'd do it.
Maybe throw in a Lonestar legend to boot 
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Schaub throwing to Blackmon, Andre, and Owens w/ Arian and Tate running the ball?
not only would we get a stud DE and still have a pick to grab a lesser WR (Sanu perhaps to make sure we get him), but we absolutely screw over the current contending windows of Baltimore and Pitt? Sign me up.
Texans fan here. I think WR #2 is the Texans' top priority this offseason, but they could also fill a need like #2 CB (Claiborne). 26th pick plus Mario in a tag and trade for the #4 pick would be crazy awesome for the Texans. Our defense was incredible last year and Claiborne across from JJo would make us even better. I'd go that direction over Blackmon because WRs are plentiful in free agency this year and later in the draft.
Dropping Mario off the books gives us about 15 million to spend. Some will need to go towards signing Foster and Myers to a new deals, but that shouldn't be hard to cover. I could see the Texans getting a guy like Colston to be the #2 if all that happened and then address depth at positions with the rest of the draft. OLB would probably need to be addressed in the 2nd or 3rd round if Mario is gone, but that's not a big deal.
Personally, I would like it if the Texans go that route, however I think the Browns may get outbid by a team like the Panthers, Dolphins or Broncos. The Dolphins 1st straight up for Mario would be more ideal to me than swapping 1sts up to #4.
So suppose the Texans did that trade, I could see the draft going like this:
1: Morris Claiborne, CB
2: Josh Chapman, NT/DT
3: Keenan Robinson, OLB
4: Joe Adams, WR
5: Mitchell Schwartz, OT
6: Grant Garner, OG
7: Jared Karstetter, WR
More emphasis on defense early, and the rest of the picks to help the offense. Although I expect to retain the free agents on offense like Foster, Myers and Brisiel.
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I'd make that trade with the Texans in a heartbeat.
#22 Mike Adams
#26 Janoris Jenkins
#37 Lavonte David
FA top WR like Vincent Jackson
To go along with adding Mario Williams to our front 4?
That would be a killer defense as well as a solid offense.
I'd love to see how that stacked up in 2012
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