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First let me start by saying I'm not a draft expert/guru so if some of you experts laugh at my senario, my apologies. I checked out about six or seven different mock sites and looked at a few different sites' "Big Boards" to come up with my selections.
Let's say the draft works out where:
1)Colts-Luck
2)Redskins(trade)-RGII
3)Vikings-Kali
So we are sitting at 4 with Claiborne rated as the highest on the board (ahead of Blackmon) and we can't find a partner to trade down so we take Claiborne.
Other areas on our Defense that we need help are WLB and DE. With Fujita ended the last two years on the IR it might be time to cut him. Gocong looked great at SLB, resign Jackson at MLB.
Our 22nd pick I've seen a few sites that had us taking Mercilus with this pick. I've also seen Nick Perry around our selection, one had him going to the Steelers at 24 but I've seen others with him going to Seattle at 12 and SD at 18. Would like to see him fall but he will probably be gone. CBS has Perry as the 14th best overall player in the draft and Mercilus as the 24th.
With our 2nd round pick (#37) if a guy like Zach Brown (6'2", 230lbs, 4.48 40 time)can fall to us, rated around #32 overall #3 OLB. Probably a reach but if he did fall a few spots he would be a great pick. From most of the boards I saw there wasn't too many other OLB besides Levonte David (6'1", 225lbs, 4.62 40 time) ranked #41 overall, #4 OLB.
Would you be upset that we didn't focus on Offense in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft if our starting Defense looked like this next year?
DE-Mercilus
DT-Ruben
DT-Taylor
DE-Sheard
WLB-Brown/David
MLB-Jackson
SLB-Gocong
CB-Haden
S-Ward
S-Adams/Young
CB-Claiborne
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i guess it depends on what we do in FA and if we also plan on somehow fixing STs (hard to win games 10-7 if we screw up STs)
think this is about as likely as getting Luck though. we 'could' do it, but there's pretty much no way we'll not go offense at some point here.
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I wouldn't be opposed to it. It would mean that you've spent the last 7 picks in the first two rounds for the last three years all on one side of the ball.
But a dominating defense can be fun to watch too. And if we brought in Claiborne, Mercilus and David, we'd have the ingredients to be a dominant defense in a year or two.
As long as we threw money at the offense, specifically WR and RB I'm ok with that.
Please take a viable RT in Round 3.
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Not a damn thing wrong with that scenario...
U then have rounds 3 and 2 picks in 4 for...
RT---Adcock OSU
RB---Polk???
FS---Lester Bama
As long as we get a GOOD WR in FA I'm all with ya'...Even if it means McCoy again in 2012...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Would you be upset that we didn't focus on Offense in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft if our starting Defense looked like this next year?
Kind of. Everything depends on FA, but Claiborne doesn't entice me that much. Joe Haden was a great pickup, but drafting another CB that high just seems like too much to me, considering all the other needs we have.
I'd prefer Blackmon or Richardson, as those are positions I see as a vital need. FA will help me really get my draft feelings in order, but as of now I'm hoping we re-sign Patterson.
The other picks are fine, so long as we get ourselves a real RT. I would like to upgrade OLB or ILB (one of the two) and DE though. I like the Mercellius pick, I'd like another DE to put on our D-Line, for sure.
There's just positions I see as much more important than CB
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Quote:
Not a damn thing wrong with that scenario...
U then have rounds 3 and 2 picks in 4 for...
RT---Adcock OSU
RB---Polk???
FS---Lester Bama
As long as we get a GOOD WR in FA I'm all with ya'...Even if it means McCoy again in 2012...
I was trying to find some stuff on Bobby Massie - OT from Ole Miss - Jr 6'6" 325lbs as our 3rd round guy to be our RT.
He is ranked around 75th overall and is the 6th best OT.
I always believe in drafting and Offensive Linemen in one of the first three rounds every year.
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Quote:
There's just positions I see as much more important than CB
I understand, it's just sometimes that high you go BPA and it would depend on if the HH have Blackmon or Claiborne ranked higher.
And obviously we would need to get some FA to fill our offensive holes at WR, RB and possibly QB.
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Would I be upset? Not at all. If the draft value chart says a defensive player is the BPA and it's not close, then draft him. The Jets, Ravens and 49ers have gotten quite far in the past few years with a great defense and a marginal offense. Of course, we're far from marginal right now. ha ha ha.... The way I look at it, we're a good defensive and bad offensive team. If we can build a great defense and just upgrade the offense to decent or average, we'll double our win total right away. We need to get better....I don't really care how. The 49ers were a muffed punt away from the Super Bowl. And the Ravens were a botched kick away from OT and then the Super Bowl. There is still a place in this league for teams built around a defense. IMO, the league will start pull back from it's crazy offense-first mentailty soon, we need to be ahead of the curve. Of course, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if we drafted all offense too.  Just get better.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Yea the debate continues concerning Defense vs Offense and who really wins games. I try to carry examples to the EXTREME to visualize things better in my head.
So... we have the best defense EVER.. teams are lucky to score 10 points a game on us. Our offense is made up of a bunch of the Dawg Talkers members playing for the Browns.
OR.. the Dawg Talkers members play defense and we have the most prolific offense ever seen with 50 points a game being scored on every team we face. Which team is likely to win the most games ? 
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Quote:
Yea the debate continues concerning Defense vs Offense and who really wins games. I try to carry examples to the EXTREME to visualize things better in my head.
So... we have the best defense EVER.. teams are lucky to score 10 points a game on us. Our offense is made up of a bunch of the Dawg Talkers members playing for the Browns.
OR.. the Dawg Talkers members play defense and we have the most prolific offense ever seen with 50 points a game being scored on every team we face. Which team is likely to win the most games ?
The first scenario, to answer your question.
Cause our O might put up 50, but the DawgTalkers will give up 60 in the 1st half.  With the DT'ers on offense we can only hope for pity flags to possibly get us into field goal range enough times to maybe win, plus the D would get us better field position, and perhaps even score for us.
I know what you mean tho, its a chicken/egg thing. But watching that SF vs NYG game showed how good defenses keep you in games. And what were considered the top 2 offenses in the NFL this year are at home now. Of course what was considered one of the worst D's (NE's) is in the big dance, so back to chicken/egg.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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I think we will take a big step towards a legit defense but I doubt we take a corner at 1a. I just think we are going to trade down and then we will see what happens. 1,2 and 3 is going to be Luck, RG3 and Kalil in one form or another.
Here is what I expect to happen.
1. Luck goes #1
2. Rams trade down with skins for their 2nd this year and 1st next year. *suckers*
3. Vikings take kalil
4. Rams trade that 2nd to the Browns to jump ahead and get Blackmon
5. Bucs take Claiborne
6. Browns take Trent Richardson or try to trade down again with a team now looking for a tackle. There will be several teams looking at only 2 superstar tackles still on board.
22. Tannehill
2a. Top rated Defensive End Curry or Mercilus should be there
2b. Dwight Jones WR or highest rated receiver
3. corner probably has best value here. Coryell Judie of Texas A&M would be a good one or Boykin from Georgia.
4. WR Joe Adams Arkansas speed receiver
4b. OLB Danny trevathon
5 and beyond start looking at Trench talent to groom
BTW I think we will probably go with Steiny at RT I dont think we are going to move either of our youngsters.
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Who is the first RDE of the board ?
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Ingram or Perry 4-3 and 3-4 teams taking a look at those 2.
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Quote:
I think we will take a big step towards a legit defense but I doubt we take a corner at 1a. I just think we are going to trade down and then we will see what happens. 1,2 and 3 is going to be Luck, RG3 and Kalil in one form or another.
Here is what I expect to happen.
1. Luck goes #1
2. Rams trade down with skins for their 2nd this year and 1st next year. *suckers*
3. Vikings take kalil
4. Rams trade that 2nd to the Browns to jump ahead and get Blackmon
5. Bucs take Claiborne
6. Browns take Trent Richardson or try to trade down again with a team now looking for a tackle. There will be several teams looking at only 2 superstar tackles still on board.
22. Tannehill
2a. Top rated Defensive End Curry or Mercilus should be there
2b. Dwight Jones WR or highest rated receiver
3. corner probably has best value here. Coryell Judie of Texas A&M would be a good one or Boykin from Georgia.
4. WR Joe Adams Arkansas speed receiver
4b. OLB Danny trevathon
5 and beyond start looking at Trench talent to groom
BTW I think we will probably go with Steiny at RT I dont think we are going to move either of our youngsters.
I realize there is no exact formula to it but isn't Steiny miscast at RT? He's more a technician and angles guy than he is brawn. He's a guard entering the downslope of his career...moving him to outside seems like just a bad idea.
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If that's the case, then I'd rather him taking on LDEs or blitzing safeties than DT, no?
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RT is probably the only chance he has to make the team. I just do not see us uprooting either of your guards and JT isn't going anywhere. 7 mil a year, he better be able to play tackle and play it at a high level lol.
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yeah, I hadn't considered that scenario until you brought it up, but it makes a lot of sense to me. However, he would be one of the very few (the only?) starting RT under 300 pounds in the league. If we're going to be a successful pass-first offense, though, we're going to have to be able to pick up the blitz.
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About where ( # ) do you see them being picked ?
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I think we could see them go as early as miami, buffalo arizona area as late as down to around 22 where we have our 2nd. Things can change quickly with these workouts but there is a premium on 3-4 OLB/DE tweeners.
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Not being really sure with what we're going to do QB wise (Colt, Flynn, Other FA, Draft etc) I would be totally fine if we..
Picked up Manningham, and resigned Hillis.
And used our top four picks on a CB, LB, DE, and RT in some order that makes sense...
I think even regaurdless of our QB situation we'd be one really big step in the right direction...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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...just a question, and I'm sure I'm not the first to ask, but why would Manningham leave the NYG, a winning franchise in a great city with one of the better QBs in the game and playing alongside two very good WRs to open the field up for him, to come to Cleveland?
While I might accept "more money" as an answer, something tells me it would have to be insane more money to lure him to a worse situation.
And as far as Hillis, I would/will be shocked if he's still in a Browns uniform next season. RBs are a dime a dozen in this league. I don't think there will be many suitors for his services, so we won't be outbid. I think it's going to be a question of durability.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
...just a question, and I'm sure I'm not the first to ask, but why would Manningham leave the NYG, a winning franchise in a great city with one of the better QBs in the game and playing alongside two very good WRs to open the field up for him, to come to Cleveland?
While I might accept "more money" as an answer, something tells me it would have to be insane more money to lure him to a worse situation.
And as far as Hillis, I would/will be shocked if he's still in a Browns uniform next season. RBs are a dime a dozen in this league. I don't think there will be many suitors for his services, so we won't be outbid. I think it's going to be a question of durability.
Gah!
I just had this discussion in the Flynn thread with someone about Robert Meachem...
Same basic argument.
Manningham is currently the #3-4 target in NYG, if he wants more than that, he's going to have to go somewhere else...
And while I don't think he's a #1, I think him teamed with Little, Norwood, and Mass is a solid start of a WR corps...
And of course...
TOUCHDOWN MANNINGHAM!!!!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Ok, thanks. Like I said, I figure I wasn't the first person to ask you that question. I tend to stay out of QB threads on this board....too much drama.
As for Manningham, we shall see. I would like to see us be a little active in free agency but this regime seems to stay out of that circus. With six picks in the first four rounds, I can see HH&S staying away from the free agent market. Then again, who really knows.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Was a huge Ingram fan but getting second thoughts about him for some reason...not sold on Perry either
Best "high end" values for the RDE spot imho are 1 of Curry or Branch in the 3rd or with a small trade up back into the 2nd...would even be ok with 1 of them as our 2nd rounder but later they'd represent more value....Branch is a better "fit" for RDE but everything I read about Curry reminds me of Sheard....but being a better SDE fit might become a problem
Huge fan of Boise St. RDE Crawford in the 4th/5th area....great value pick imho
Late round gem is So.Miss DE C.Law
This year's Karl Klug award goes to Broderick Binns, another Iowa small but overachieving DL.....Law and Binns are the kind of guys that I'd invest 1 of those comp picks on...at worst pretty decent rotational DEs in the mold of Paxson/Benard
Since 2012 won't be a contending year anyway I could care less if we go Offense or Defense heavy in the draft....I'm all about BPA
Some thoughts about this draft class on defense:
- pass rush talent is well below AVG imho...so we either go high or FA if we want a RDE who can start day 1
- lots of mid-late round 4-3 WOLB talent out there...pretty much like every draft...drafting Zach Brown high would be pretty stupid...I would think about him with our 3rd rounder....the only other OLB I would draft top 50 is L.David, I would trade back into the 2nd if he falls into mid/late 2nd...fall back option would be Travis Lewis in the 3rd...after that it's a big pool of decent 4t to 6th round WOLB talent: Acho, Trevathan, Kaddu, Bradham, Spence....late round values: Miles Burris and Demario Davis
- still don't like the S class...would be ok with Barron in the 2nd, even at 22 but probably not my BPA at both spots...Iloka looks intriguing, not sure yet though on his value....best value to me still seems to be Trenton Robinson in the low 4th to high 6th round area...like the guy....good producer in a good defense
- really like the CB class...and like WR I'd draft 2 here and like WR I see some value in almost every round....really like the value of Fletcher in the 4th or even 5th, possible FS candidate too
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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DJ one thing i have to ask is you keep talking value, and i understand that..Hell i ran work for 30+ yrs..but i want to know NOT VALUE how do you rank the top 2 at each position...not your top 44 overall just your top 2 at each position and who are they. and Deep if your reading this could you also give us your top 2 at each position.
i'm not interested on how they will be drafted just the top 2.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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How about getting some offensive help, the less time the D is on the field, the better the team will become.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Quote:
How about getting some offensive help, the less time the D is on the field, the better the team will become.
The better the D is the easier it is for them to get off the field... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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QB
1. Luck 2. Tannehill 3. RG3 4. Foles
RB
1. Richardson, Bama 2. Lamaar Miller, Miami 3. Bernard Pierce, Cinn 4. Polk, Washington
WR
1. Blackmon, OKST 2. Dwight Jones, UNC 3. Alshon Jeffery, SC 4. Kendall Wright, Baylor
C
1. Konz, Wis 2. Brewster Ohio St. 3. Ben Jones GA. 4. Phil blake Baylor
OG
1. Decastro, Stanford 2. Zeitler, WiS 3. Cordy Glenn, Georgia 4. Bradon Brooks Miami (OH) 4. Kelechi Osemele, Iowa St. Its a tie at 4
OT
1. Jonathon Martin, Stanford 2. Matt Kalil, USC 3. RT Reiff, Iowa 4. RT Mike Adams Ohio St
TE
1. Dwayne Allen Clemson 2. Coby Fleener stanford 3. Orson Charles UGa. 4. Michael Egnew, Missouri
DT.
1. Dontari Poe, Memphis 2. Fletcher Cox Miss St. 3. Devon Still Penn St. 4. Alameda Ta'amu Wash.
DE
1. Whitney Mercilus, ill. 2. Ingram, SC 3. Perry, USC 4. Jonathan Massaquoi Troy
LB
1. Luke Kuechly Boston 2. Donte Hightower Bama 3. Emmanuel Acho Texas 4. Bobby Wagner Utah St.
CB
1. Claiborne 2. Janoris Jenkins 3. Kirkpatrick 4. Dennard
S
1. Mark Barron Bamma 2. Harrison Smith ND 3. George Iloka Boise 4. Markelle Martin OKST
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I'll play and even give you a Top 3 to 5  QB 1. Luck, 2. RG III, 3. Weeden, 4. Tannehill, 5. Foles RB 1. Richardson, 2. Martin, 3. Wilson, 4. Polk, 5. Miller TE not scouted yet to give a honest opinion WR 1. Blackmon, 2. Sanu, 3. Wright, 4. Jones, 5. Jeffery RT 1. Reiff, 2. Martin, 3. Adams, 4. Potter, 5. Mosley ...not scouted Massie enough yet G...see TE RDE 1. Ingram, 2. Cox, 3. Curry, 4. Branch, 5. Mercilus...no read on Perry yet DT...see TE OLB 1. Hightower, 2. Upshaw, 3. David, 4. T.Lewis, 5. Irvin CB 1. Claiborne, 2. Kirkpatrick, 3. Dennard, 4. Gilmore, 5. Minnifield S 1. Barron, 2. M.Martin, 3. Iloka, 4. Robinson, 5. Henry/Taylor
#gmstrong
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thank you. it gives me a starting point as i'm not a draft quru..i would just like to compare how the gurus on this board rate the guys coming out at each position.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Quote:
RB
1. Richardson, Bama 2. Lamaar Miller, Miami 3. Bernard Pierce, Cinn 4. Polk, Washington
Isn't Bernard Pierce from Temple U. I saw him play UConn last year and I was impressed big time
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Quote:
How about getting some offensive help, the less time the D is on the field, the better the team will become.
Well, in my opinion we are not one draft away no matter which way we draft. All I'm saying is if we finish off one side of the ball more or less we can focus on the other side next season. Would it be such a bad thing if our defense was knock peoples heads off, scoring points, creating turnovers giving our Offense short fields to work with?
As others have said, we can still focus on a WR and/or OT in the 3rd and 4th rounds as well as free agency.
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Quote:
Quote:
How about getting some offensive help, the less time the D is on the field, the better the team will become.
The better the D is the easier it is for them to get off the field...
So the Offense can go 3 and out, and the D can go right back out there again! ...
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With Fujita ended the last two years on the IR it might be time to cut him.
If his injuries are career ending, fine, but otherwise, this is the kind move that keeps the club from turning the corner. Fujita is/was a starter that means he's one of the top 4 or 5 linebackers on the team. They should keep him, or let him leave in free agency, ( which brings a supplemental pick) and cut someone like Austin English, or Brian Sanford, or someone else who was marginal to make the team.
Ya these guys had special teams jobs, but your new guys can have special teams jobs too.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Yea I meant Temple. I like the kid alot, good downhill runner, reminds me a bit of Atrain. He doesn't have the game breaking speed some of the other backs have but he has real power and vision.
I was watching Pead on tv during their senior bowl show and had Cinn on the brain. Love what I was seeing but looked a bit thin legged.
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If his injuries are career ending, fine, but otherwise, this is the kind move that keeps the club from turning the corner.
I'll disagree with that, if we get to the point where we are playing for a playoff spot what good is he if he is on the IR again. He has been here two years and both years he missed significant playing time (He has missed 13 games). So one could argue that holding onto an aging vet is actually holding you back from turning the corner.
Fujita is on the wrong side of 30 (He's 32) and he isn't even the best SLB on the team. You are not going to move him to Weakside and he makes too much to be a back-up. We need to draft or bring in a Free Agent Weak Side linebacker and also keep Jackson at MLB.
In my opinion Gocong outplayed him at the strong side linebacker spot in which looked like Gocong's natural position so keep him there. The Steeler game comes to mind when we held them on the goal line stance, Gocong was in on just about every tackle and was laying the wood to Mendenhall.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
This is one of the strongest groups of weakside backers that has come along in some time. I think there is future probowl talent to be had in the 3rd and 4th rounds at that position. Just need a good eye and find the right guy to fit the system.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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This is one of the strongest groups of weakside backers that has come along in some time. I think there is future probowl talent to be had in the 3rd and 4th rounds at that position. Just need a good eye and find the right guy to fit the system.
I agree with this statement. Not sure if these guys will last to the 4th (think some of them may jump up once silly season gets closer to ending), but there are alot of really good guys.
Travis Lewis and Sean Spence are my favorites of guys I have seen enough of.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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. " pass rush talent is well below AVG imho...so we either go high or FA if we want a RDE who can start day 1.. "
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Thats kinda where I'm at ! ... Big time wish for a monster MLB and Safety but don't see them in this class..
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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Would you be upset that we didn't focus on Offense in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft if our starting Defense looked like this next year?
Yes. I would rather pick up a couple of solid vets in FA to supplement the defense and draft the nucleus of the offense THIS YEAR. Primarily because it's going to take a couple years for the offensive players to mature so I don't want to keep putting that off. Say we do build a great defense and we win 9 or 10 games based on the strength of our defense alone.. then what? We are drafting in the late teens and trying to find a game breaking WR or a super star QB and they are just hard to find at that spot...
I know the Ravens won a super bowl on the strength of their defense alone, but how often does that happen? About once every 15 years? The reason the Ravens haven't won 3 or 4 super bowls in the last decade is because they had a tremendous defense that kept them out of a position to really build the offense.
What if, in 2008, they had traded the 10th pick, the 42nd pick, and the following years first round pick for the #1... Peyton Manning? They would have given up (in hindsight).. Duane Starks, Patrick Johnson, and Chris McCalister and if you want to even throw in the next seasons #1.. Jamal Lewis. ... for Peyton Manning.. How many super bowls would they have?
yebat' Putin
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Finish off the Defense
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