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Come on, ever since Tim Rattay left the NFL, he had to find someone else.
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why is there even a discussion about this guy? waste of time.
When a free agent qb who is better than what we have is available, the discussion is hardly a waste of time.
Campbell doesn't have even a SLIGHT of a better chance of making this team better than Colt..
but if you want to discuss the guy.. to each his own right..
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Simple question. Would you rather have Mccoy or Campbell? Further, with the list of available upgrades either through the draft or free agency, you cannot say that Campbell isn't one of the few on what would be a short list.
Note the keyword "available". Luck is not. Manning with his neck is not. Etc. Now you get to rg3, flynn, Campbell, Orton, and a few others.
It's impossible to say Campbell sucks. He's an average NFL qb, which is something we haven't had since Testeverde left with the trucks to Baltimore.
There are plausible scenarios where Campbell becomes the best option.
It's very possible that the Fish throw rediculous money at Flynn, and the Skins give up the farm for RG3. then where are we? We aren't standing pat with Colt. So what's left?
He's hardly irrelevant in the conversations.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The only thing I have against Campbell is that he is right around average.
The only think that Campbell would bring would be a fairer appraisal of our WR position. Campbell has generally (IIRC) thrown to all parts of the field. We would see if receivers are getting open or not.
However, all things being said, this type of QB does not take his team to the Super Bowl, and that should be our only focus. I don't want guys who can "make us a little better" ...... I want guys who can take us to, and help us win Super Bowls. If we have to trade up to get RG3, if the front office feels that he is a game changer at that position, then I would hope that they do so. We are in a better position than any other "competitor" to make a deal. Plus it's not that hard to figure out the Rams needs ...... and if we let it slip that if we can't get the QB we will take the guy the Vikings don't between Kalil and Blackmon ......... well I think that the Rams desperately want to get their own QB some help ...... and 6 may be just too far for them to drop and get that upper tier guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think it is hilarious hearing posters say Campbell sucks. The guy is a quality player. IMO he is leaps and bounds better than Wallace, and Wallace and Colt seem to be pretty equal.
I want to see what goes on with Colt after a true offseason in the scheme. I like Colt, but I think he has major limitations. He may improve, but I see a very low ceiling due to his physical limitations. He has the mind, just not the tools for the NFL.
Campbell is bashed by the usual jackaholes around here, The guy has been decent on very bad teams. If he wasn't hurt this year I believe he would have had a very good season. He is big, has a good arm, and can move. He has experience, and a good over all rating. Those who say he sucks have no clue IMO.
This crap about him not being able to lead us to the superbowl is just that crap. All the names being thrown about, RGIII, Flynn, Luck, and Tannehill are no more a sure thing than Campbell. You put him on a team with protection and some weapons, he IMO could be very successful. IMO he was showing that this year in Oakland.
Signing him would help a ton, as far as being able to upgrade the team. Not having to draft a QB this year, one with very limited choices, would be a plus. I would love to see the brass use the picks for major holes at RT, WR, and LB. If they get Campbell, I would like to see them draft Weeden later in the draft.
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He's an OK QB ..... but that's really where it ends. He doesn't really do anything "great". He's OK. He's "solid". He's a decent QB, but he's never raised the level of play of those around him.
Santana Moss had a much better year after he left .....and that left him with a decrepit Donovan McNabb and Rex Grossman throwing to him.
In Campbell's final year in Washington they scored 266 points. He played, and started, all 16 games. The following year, with McNabb and Grossman at QB, they scored 302 points.
At some point the QB has to have some responsibility.
He had Clinton Portis. Portis had a down year his final year in DC, but in Campbell's 3 years as a starter in DC they ran for 1510, 2095, and 1871 yards as a team. He was never thrown out there without competent help in the backfield. he then went to the Raiders and got Bush and McFadden. McFadden was coming off an 1100 yard 2010 season, and had over 600 yards in 7 games prior to getting hurt. That's roughly a 1400 yard pace. Bush had almost 1000 yards in his absence. This isn't a guy who has played without talent around him, and he really doesn't have a track record for raising the level of play of those around him.
He's OK. OK just isn't good enough for a QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My question then is, who is you choice? And why is it your choice? And, why would it be a better move than Campbell?
#gmstrong
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I want a guy with Super Bowl potential.
That guy is almost never a free agent. Teams generally don't let Super Bowl caliber QBs walk. (and yes I know that Brees was a free agent, but he also had a serious injury, and the Chargers had Rivers waiting in the wings .... and he's been pretty good in his own right)
If I could trade for a guy ...... and get that team to trade me their QB ... other than the obvious high end, multiple Super Bowl winners, I would like a guy like Josh Freeman. It's doubtful that the Bucs would trade him, but I would make that call if I was in the front office. He has plus accuracy and a plus arm. I think that he still also has legitimate room to grow.
In the draft, I would love either Luck or RG3. Luck is obvious. He is the most NFL capable QB in years. He has every quality you want in a QB. he has the arm. He has the ability to play in any offense you want to put him in. He has the maturity you look for in a leader for your team. He can play from day 1, and play well. I think that he is a surefire NFL star in the waiting.
RG3 is riskier ...... but he has absolute potential superstar written all over him. He has every quality I want in a QB, He has a very good arm. he can make every single throw. He has accuracy, mobility, pocket awareness, an uncanny ability to make the deep throws, a quick release, good footwork, and so on. The only thing he lacks is experience under Center. I think that he has the intelligence and determination to overcome that "flaw".
I think that there are tons of guys who are ..... OK. They generally sit home come the playoffs, and almost always come the Super Bowl. I perfer to see our guy playing in the Super Bowl.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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However, all things being said, this type of QB does not take his team to the Super Bowl, and that should be our only focus.
I agree, but only to a point.
The ultimate goal is the Super Bowl, but sometimes you gotta learn to walk before you can run. The application of that statement is what I was referencing when I said there are only so many options to upgrade our QB position. If we cannot land an elite guy, there's absolutely nothing wrong with signing a guy who improves the position.
Campbell won't come for a 4-year, $60 million dollar price tag. He'd probably come to any team on a two-year deal. If we draft a future "super bowl" QB, signing an upgrade for the here-and-now makes the team better without investing huge amounts of money or time.
Again, keep in mind I'm talking from the standpoint of building the team first here. If we can't land a super-stud QB, there are other ways of building up the team, and that's where signing a Campbell or an Orton comes into play.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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However, we need to understand that he is a temporary placeholder and not count on such a guy to be the solution.
The danger that the placeholder is just good enough to knock us into the middle of the draft .... so we address other positions, but cannot find our franchise level QB. So we stay with our "decent" QB, and never upgrade to a level where we can compete for championships.
I believe that we need to do what we can to move up and get one of the 2 guys at the top of this draft. I think that we can offer something that no other team can ...... and that's an extra pick, plus the ability for the Rams to get one of the 2 guys they surely covet. This is an opportunity I hope we don't miss.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Simple question. Would you rather have Mccoy or Campbell? Further, with the list of available upgrades either through the draft or free agency, you cannot say that Campbell isn't one of the few on what would be a short list.
Note the keyword "available". Luck is not. Manning with his neck is not. Etc. Now you get to rg3, flynn, Campbell, Orton, and a few others.
It's impossible to say Campbell sucks. He's an average NFL qb, which is something we haven't had since Testeverde left with the trucks to Baltimore.
There are plausible scenarios where Campbell becomes the best option.
It's very possible that the Fish throw rediculous money at Flynn, and the Skins give up the farm for RG3. then where are we? We aren't standing pat with Colt. So what's left?
He's hardly irrelevant in the conversations.
So you basically want a stop gap QB. Your love of him is clouding your logic and reasoning. The guy has been mediocre at best his entire career.
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He's an OK QB ..... but that's really where it ends. He doesn't really do anything "great". He's OK. He's "solid". He's a decent QB, but he's never raised the level of play of those around him.
I'm not sure we agree on much but we agree on this.
Nancy Reagan said it best..."Just say No" (Although I don't think she was talking about Jason Campbell  )
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I didn't say that. I said he's an option at upgrading the position.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yes Campbell is a mediocre NFL Qb but that is much much better than anything we have seen in a while around these parts. Campbell would get us to 500. Add a FA agent or 2 and a decent draft and we are a playoff team. Once in the playoffs anything can happen. A lucky bounce here a steelers type call from the refs there and who knows what can happen.
We need a Qb who knows what he is doing. This team needs to learn how to win. Colt is not that guy. Perhaps he could take over for Campbell in a year or 2 but he isn't the guy right now.
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We need a Qb who knows what he is doing. This team needs to learn how to win. Colt is not that guy. Perhaps he could take over for Campbell in a year or 2 but he isn't the guy right now.
I don't get it. We set up Colt to fail this season, and we want to replace him with Jason Campbell?
No OTA's, no coaching staff until the end of July or whatever. No offensive coordinator in a very poor offense talent-wise.
Now we want to replace him with Jason Campbell? A guy we're admitting to being a stop-gap QB? That seems stupid. I'd at least like to give Colt a fair shot if the guy we're bringing in isn't going to be the long-term solution anyway.
What ever the coaching staff decides is fine, I just hope they do factor in the situation that Colt faced this past season, and I hope they don't factor in the opinions of the talking heads outside the organization.
I just don't see how you know he isn't "the guy right now" until he at least is given a fair shot. Let him continue to grow as a player, as well as learn the offense and get a real off-season where he works with his coaches. At least do that instead of getting some stop-gap.
If we change things at QB, I want real change, a franchise QB. Otherwise, I'd like to see what Colt can do if given an actual opportunity
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I agree that the stud QB is usually not a FA. But like Toad said above, we are not at that level yet, and if we can upgrade at all we should. The logic that a guy like him will drop our draft position is nonsense. It actually sounds like you would rather lose for a good draft pick at QB than improve the team first. Teams that draft in the middle of the round have ability to move up for a top tier guy, it happens all the time. If a sure fire guy is their, and he is the piece you need to get over the top, you trade up and grab him at any cost. I just don't feel like we are there yet.
If they did trade up for Luck, I wouldn't be mad, but I think at this stage we need too much to give up high picks for one player. As for RGIII, he may have the tangibles, but he is not that big, and that to me is the problem. Many bashed the McCoy pick due to his height, while RGIII is not much bigger. I know they are not the same player, but it is an issue.
Still the bottom line is a guy like RGIII is not a sure fire pick, he could be, but no one knows . Is he a franchise QB? Campbell might not be elite, but if a franchise guy is not available, Campbell would be a definite upgrade over what we have now, and he has a few years left.
I think he is a safer bet than Flynn, due to Flynn's limited play. IMO Wallace is a waste of space at this point. McCoy would be a fine back-up, and just might be able to grow into a starter. He and Seneca are the same player to me.
I would love to see a franchise guy taken just as you would, and RGIII just might be that guy, but if you don't get him, Campbell would be a good alternative to hold down the position until that elite guy is found. I guess the only problem with this whole situation is that elite guys are rare, and all drafted QBs are question marks until proven otherwise. This team needs to improve any way it can at many positions. Upgrading the QB position, even if it is "stop-gap" as many like to say is necessary for the growth of the team.
What is funny, about the QB position, is that you get guys like Dalton who many doubted, yet today he is playing in the probowl as a rookie. Who knows, maybe Tannehill or Weeden are the next Dalton.
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Yeah, just seems to me some people here are trying to get rid of our QB without offering up a much better solution. Do I think Colt will ever be a top 5 QB. No. Probably not a top 10 QB either. But I do think he would be a lot better this year than he was last year.
Not giving the guy a chance and replacing him with what would amount to be an "adequate QB" makes no sense to me.
That's why I roll like this, get me Andrew Luck. If RG3 looks like a really good one, get me him. But if there's no legit long-term solution in play, let's ride with what we have and see what he can do.
Sometimes it seems that people here just want to replace Colt with anyone. Doesn't matter who. Just replace him. lol
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There is nothing stupid about it unless you feel Campbell is a below average Qb or a locker room caner. Quote:
No OTA's, no coaching staff until the end of July or whatever. No offensive coordinator in a very poor offense talent-wise.
Right there you state how I know McCoy isn't ready right now. He doesn't know how to be an NFL QB. Maybe he will learn but he doesn't yet. He doesn't know what it takes in the film room (though I think Delhomme helped some), he doesn't know how lead NFL players on the field and manage the clock, he doesn't know how to make the other players around him better - especially in crunch time. Seneca is no help. Seneca should be cut IMO but that is a discussion for a different thread. If we stay with McCoy we are trying to re-invent the wheel on the fly.
Since 2000 we have had only one Qb who knows how to be an NFL Qb. Garcia. And he butted heads with the head coach trying to perform in an offensive system he was completely unsuited for.
How can you expect this offense to look like it knows what it is doing when its single most important player has no idea how to do his job? Put in a solid NFL Qb and the offense gets the right audibles, the oline looks better because of the right protection calls and the Wr's can develop. The team improves, the players gain confidence and believe that they can win.
Meanwhile you give Colt a chance to learn and develop. You get to the opportunity to evaluate him in practice and figure out if he can be the guy.
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However, while you are evaluating a QB you also have to try and evaluate linemen and receivers.
An ineffective QB destroys opportunities for receivers, and can negatively impact the line as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Thank you - Exactly one of my point.
An poor QB holds everyone's development back.
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Thank you - Exactly one of my point.
An poor QB holds everyone's development back.
And, ineffective receivers do/cause the same thing.
I find it interesting that so many who are "anti Colt" are also "ABC" people. (anyone but colt)........yet in the next thread, they espouse the possibilities of the next draft pick........or they espouse and adore getting some other teams "not good enough to start" qb.
Or, they say "so and so is better".......forgetting that so and so has 6 years experience, so on and so forth.
For these people, it will be a sad ride for a while. They blame the qb for everything..........yet they say that top notch qb's won't want to play in Cleveland for lack of weapons.
So what the hell is it?
Top notch free agents (supposed top notch) won't come here because we have no weapons...........but if we only could draft Luck, we'd be set.........or RG, we'd be set, or Barkley.........wait, he's not coming out.........or Tannehill.............if only we could play Anybody But Colt (ABC) we'd be all set.
Well, yeah, our receivers suck, but it's Colt's fault. Our running game sucked, but it's Colt's fault..
It gets old.
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No OTA's, no coaching staff until the end of July or whatever. No offensive coordinator in a very poor offense talent-wise.
Right there you state how I know McCoy isn't ready right now. He doesn't know how to be an NFL QB. Maybe he will learn but he doesn't yet. He doesn't know what it takes in the film room (though I think Delhomme helped some), he doesn't know how lead NFL players on the field and manage the clock, he doesn't know how to make the other players around him better - especially in crunch time. Seneca is no help. Seneca should be cut IMO but that is a discussion for a different thread. If we stay with McCoy we are trying to re-invent the wheel on the fly.
I don't think that if Jason Campbell was here, learning a new offensive system last year, that he would have done any better.
My whole point was that Colt was given a raw deal because of lack of talent around him and because of the NFL strike while being handed a new system.
This year, after a year in the WCO, OTA's, working with the QB coach before TC, Colt is in a much better position to actually succeed.
I don't think anything had to do with how he watched film or how to "lead players".
What makes you think that Jason Campbell can "lead players" and "make them better"? He lost his starting job last year to Palmer, who came in to Oakland and immediately started in front of him..........
I'm down to get a new QB, as long as they're going to be really good. Because I do think that Colt will certainly improve next year for us and I don't think he's as bad as many people on this board think he is.
Campbell is an average QB, and I think Colt will prove to be an average QB next year as well.
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McCoy got a chance to start unopposed. That's never a raw deal.
He has flaws in his game that have nothing to do with having an off-season, or having great players around him ...... but many people choose to ignore those.
McCoy might have a Jason Campbell level ceiling. He will play OK ...rarely taking chances ...... rarely making big plays ..... and never being the solution.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't think that if Jason Campbell was here, learning a new offensive system last year, that he would have done any better.
We disagree on this point. It is a fundamental difference so we will never see eye to eye. But most veteran Qb's can learn a new system faster.
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What makes you think that Jason Campbell can "lead players" and "make them better"? He lost his starting job last year to Palmer, who came in to Oakland and immediately started in front of him..........
Not what happened. Campbell sustained a season ending injury so the Raiders panicked and went out and over payed for Palmer.
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Or, they say "so and so is better".......forgetting that so and so has 6 years experience, so on and so forth.
I am not forgetting this. It is part of my point. WE need someone at Qb with experience. Some one who is a solid Qb (not a spaz like Delhomme)
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And, ineffective receivers do/cause the same thing.
If your Wr's are horrible then yes they can hold back a QB's development. Another reason to let Colt sit for a while. Campbell doesn't need to develop. He is game ready. If the Wr's are the problem then it will quickly become self evident. As of now we don't know if it is the Wr's the Qb or both. Campbell eliminates one variable.
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I find it interesting that so many who are "anti Colt" are also "ABC" people. (anyone but colt)........yet in the next thread, they espouse the possibilities of the next draft pick........or they espouse and adore getting some other teams "not good enough to start" qb.
I am not ABC. As for draft picks I would love Luck but we aren't getting him. I have not pimped RGIII. I do like Weeden at a value spot. Campbell is not a "not good enough to start" Qb. Before his season was ended by injury he had the Raiders on the verge of the playoffs which the team squandered once he got hurt.
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yet they say that top notch qb's won't want to play in Cleveland for lack of weapons.
I don't know who says this but top notch Qb's won't leave their team to come to Cleveland is a true statement because top notch Qb's don't leave their teams. Go ahead site Brees. Doesn't count, he was not a top notch Qb in SD thus the drafting of Rivers. He didn't become a top notch Qb until after he got to the Saints. Favre? Montana? No. When they left their teams they were way past their primes with maybe a couple of good years remaining.
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Well, yeah, our receivers suck, but it's Colt's fault. Our running game sucked, but it's Colt's fault..
No, not all Colt's fault but he was a contributing factor.
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It gets old.
Yes it does get old. It sure would be nice to have a Qb that was good enough for us not to need to have this type of discussion every off season.
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McCoy got a chance to start unopposed. That's never a raw deal.
He has flaws in his game that have nothing to do with having an off-season, or having great players around him ...... but many people choose to ignore those.
McCoy might have a Jason Campbell level ceiling. He will play OK ...rarely taking chances ...... rarely making big plays ..... and never being the solution.
Oh, I see the flaws. I definitely understand he has limited upside. But I do believe that he can improve his accuracy with all of his throws. I also believe that as he gets bigger he'll gain some arm strength too.
Other QB's have improved their ability to throw the ball. I don't see why Colt can't.
I don't think the Colt will ever be a superstar, but I would rather have him playing instead of Jason Campbell. Just for the fact that he was drafted by us and there's just something I like about him. He's a tough kid with a lot of heart.
But I do think he was put into a tough situation, I understand that getting a chance to start is always an opportunity, but in a complicated timing offense that he had very little chance to prepare for, he had the deck stacked against him.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, as it seems me and Jester have. My theory, I want an elite QB brought in if we make the change. I want Andrew Luck. If the FO thinks that Griffin has that kind of ability, I'd like Griffin. I'll basically go with whoever we decide to go with. I like our FO, and I trust our coaches. They'll make the best decision for the Browns.
And I think we'll probably know pretty early on, because from what I remember, Holmgren doesn't like QB competitions
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My problem with McCoy is that I see him as a guy with a ceiling somewhere around Jason Campbell ........ he could turn out to be an OK QB eventually ...... but nothing special ..... and not a guy who will ever take his team to a championship. He simply lacks the tools necessary.
I hoped and thought last year that he might have those tools. This year just completely dissuaded me of that mistaken opinion. He might, one day, be a decent, maybe even an average QB. In today's NFL that simply isn't good enough to get to, and win a Super Bowl.
You can win with average receivers .... and average line ....... an average running game ....... but not with an average QB. Not a Super Bowl anyway.
I don't know about anyone else ..... but I want to win Super Bowls. If we are going to do that then we better find that special QB who can take us there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I don't know about anyone else ..... but I want to win Super Bowls. If we are going to do that then we better find that special QB who can take us there.
I agree, but to find one, one has to be available for us to get. That's why I've been thinking that if we can't trade up for Luck and if our FO doesn't feel that confident in Griffin, we might want to see if we can trade down again, pick up another 1st round pick, and see if there's someone available next season
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I think that Griffin is a special QB, so I hope that we do take him if he's there when we pick ..... or even that we trade up to get him.
I don't see another special player available at 4 other than the 2 QBs. If we pass on them, or cannot get one, then I have no problem trading down in this draft. I think that this year's draft is fairly seep, so extra picks could be helpful.
My first, second, and third and forth choice is to get one of the 2 QBs at 4 though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He lost his starting job last year to Palmer, who came in to Oakland and immediately started in front of him..........
For the record ... Campbell broke his collarbone and was lost for the season Oct. 16 against the Browns. Palmer was traded to the Raiders on Oct. 19th. At no point did Campbell lose his job, nor did Palmer start in front of him.
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McCoy might have a Jason Campbell level ceiling. He will play OK ...rarely taking chances ...... rarely making big plays ..... and never being the solution.
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My problem with McCoy is that I see him as a guy with a ceiling somewhere around Jason Campbell ........ he could turn out to be an OK QB eventually ...... but nothing special ..... and not a guy who will ever take his team to a championship. He simply lacks the tools necessary.
NFL teams cannot reach a Super Bowl or the playoffs if their QB plays at a Jason Campbell level, right?
I have put up Jason Campbell's career numbers and compared then to another "so so" qb, Eli Manning.
Jason Campbell has not had the luxury of playing on teams in Washington and Oakland that had all the weapons and supporting cast that Eli Manning has enjoyed throughout his career in NY, yet his career stats are "better" than the very special, Eli Manning.
I will post those stats again for the benefit of those who missed them and might feel that JC is a washed up, used up, has been, unworthy of leading the great Cleveland Browns...
Here you go, one more time...
For those who don't believe Campbell is capable of playing at a Super Bowl level...Campbell's career stats are as good as Eli Manning's career stats...only slightly better.
Eli... comp% = 58.4% ....qb rating = 82.1
JC....comp% = 60.8%.....qb rating = 82.8
There are some who seem to believe the only way to win a Super Bowl is to have the best QB in the NFL...which is simply not true.
Some just don't seem to "get it"...a QBs performance and success can be directly linked to the quality of the supporting cast around them.
Check this out...it seems the QBs with the best performances and greatest success have had at least a good, very good or excellent supporting cast..especially in the areas of WR and OL.
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Stats can say whatever you want, watching them play, Eli's a much better QB.
Jason Campbell has never thrown more than 20 TD's a season. Jason Campbell lifetime TD%: 3.5 to Eli's 4.7. Yards/G Campbell: 203, Eli 227. And this is all career stats, not looking at the past four years.
How about deep passes. Eli has a much better knack for throwing the ball downfield than Campbell does.
It's not as simple as two career stats. Watch Eli play. When it comes to crunch time, Eli's one of the best. He's a very good player in the 4th quarter, and a very good player in the playoffs, period.
The Giants went to the superbowl in 2007 because of an awesome defense, a good running game, and Eli playing his usual self in clutch games. Looking at the way that he carries himself, you'd never know it, but Eli is very good in clutch situations.
If you want to say Eli's supporting cast is better, fine. But it still doesn't change the fact that Eli seems to get it done in the playoffs and crunch time as good as any quarterback in football. I watch Eli play, he isn't a so-so QB anymore at all
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 01/30/12 09:09 AM.
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Eli is a good QB, and is money on 3rd down. He is under rated.
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I know, you can't just put up two players career QB Rating and say "See, he's better".
I watch them play, since winning the superbowl in 2007, Eli's been a better QB.
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Stats can say whatever you want, watching them play, Eli's a much better QB.
You tell me... how important is a QBs supporting cast when it comes to a QBs performance and success?
Some are not capable of viewing a QBs performance beyond the individual stats a QB puts up. Maybe some fans do not understanding how the various positions on an offense relate to each other and how the play of teammates can affect the performance of others on the offense.
When assessing QBs...
...assessing the protection his offensive line provides..
...and assessing the quality of the running game..
...and assessing the quality of the receivers..
...in other words, assessing a QBs "supporting cast" can give a more complete assessment of a QBs value or potential....
Those who choose to assess a QB based on only the QB stats are "choosing" to make assessments and conclusions based on limited information. If one is looking to support a pre-determine opinion or support an agenda, using selected/limited information might be a good way to support your claims.
Fortunately, those who assess talent for a living, Pro scouts and coaches, rarely assess a QB's performance from a limited viewpoint, using selected information. The Pros look at everything on the offense and how it all relates to the performances of others.
Eli... comp% = 58.4% ....qb rating = 82.1...
JC....comp% = 60.8%.....qb rating = 82.8...
...Jason Campbell's career stats are slightly better than Eli Manning's stats...that tells me very little about Campbell's career performance.
...Eli Manning's supporting cast in NY was much better than the supporting cast Campbell played with in Washington and Oakland, yet Campbell stats are slightly better than Eli's...that tells me more about Campbell than just the stats above. It required some research and a little digging, but adding more information to Campbell's QB assessment gives a more complete picture of Campbell's career and perhaps, his potential.
Here is why I like Campbell...
...he is better than Wallace, why pay Wallace when you could have Campbell
...Campbell has not played the number of snaps his 7 years indicate. Campbell sat the first year and half and missed more than half last season when he broke his collar bone.
...he is 6-5, 230 lbs, which might be a better suited for the NFC north division.
...Campbell has experience in the WCO offense. He played for Jim Zorn who coached under Holmgren for 7 seasons, as Holmgren's QBs coach.
...Campbell's best seasons were playing in Zorn's WCO.
Some may believe that adding Campbell is all that I'm advocating for the QB position..not true. All the options remain on the table and might be considered, if the Browns replace Wallace with Campbell.
The Browns could allow Colt McCoy to compete with Campbell for the starting job. McCoy could have more time to develop behind Campbell if doesn't beat him out
The Browns could draft RGIII or any other QB if that is their plan. Adding Campbell does not mean other QB options will not be considered.
At very least, adding Jason Campbell should improve the Browns overall quality at the QB position, compared to last season's stable of QBs.
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please stop the Eli to Campbell comparisons. take out Eli's first 4 wretched years (yes, 2007 he was bad until about December when the light turned on and he became a better QB).
Campbell 'now' is not Eli 'now' and it's not close.
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Eli is a killer in the 4th quarter.
For those "statophiles", he completed 66% of his passes for 9.42 yards/attempts. with 15 TD passes and 6 INT. He had 27 pass plays of 20+ yards in the 4th quarter .......which is 2 less than Campbell had all of 2010.
His 15 4th quarter TD passes are also 2 more than Campbell had all of last year.
Further, looking at career stats doesn't tell the whole story because Eli Manning has gotten better and better as the years have gone by. It took him 4 years to break the 60% completion mark. He hasn't looked back since. His QB rating (since that was brought up) has been 86.45, 93.1, 85.3, and 92.9 for the past 4 years. Campbell's has been 84.3, 86.4, 84.5, and 84.2. He is what he is, and he does what he does. He'll be a decent, right around average type guy .... but you'll never get more than that. The Raiders were sure that he would fit their offense and give him so much more ...... but franchise guys are rarely cut by another team. Manning is a franchise guy. he can load the team on his back and drag them down the field to victory. Campbell can go along for the ride ...... if you get him good enough teammates.
I also love how people whine about how "Manning has all of those weapons" ...... when guys like Bradshaw was a 7th rounder, Brandon Jacobs was a 4th round pick, and Cruz was an UDFA .......
They do have a 1st rounder in Nicks, but also a 3rd round pick in Manningham. Devin Thomas was a 2nd round pick of the Redskins.
Ballard was an UDFA. Domenik Hixon was a free agent. He's also hurt.
They didn't invest heavily at the top of the draft. They got their franchise QB.
The Raiders have actually drafted more "weapons" higher in the draft than the Giants have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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I also love how people whine about how "Manning has all of those weapons" ...... when guys like Bradshaw was a 7th rounder, Brandon Jacobs was a 4th round pick, and Cruz was an UDFA .......
They do have a 1st rounder in Nicks, but also a 3rd round pick in Manningham. Devin Thomas was a 2nd round pick of the Redskins.
Ballard was an UDFA. Domenik Hixon was a free agent. He's also hurt.
They didn't invest heavily at the top of the draft. They got their franchise QB.
The Raiders have actually drafted more "weapons" higher in the draft than the Giants have.
Where they were drafted has nothing to do with whether or not they're weapons. I think you're speaking to those who say we need to draft WRs early. (This year, unlike other years,I agree that we should), but weapons are weapons regardless of where they come from. The bottom line is that the Browns don't have very many, and definitely need a few.
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Well, we aren't going to agree about Eli vs Campbell. Campbell could play on the Giants and wouldn't be as good as Eli. I've watched a lot of Eli, since winning that superbowl, he's been a totally different QB. A light turned on.
He does have a more stable offense and better weapons around him, but if he played on Oakland, he'd utilize the weapons they have also.
But I do agree Campbell is better than Seneca. I don't think we'll pick him up though, just because it might ignite an even bigger QB controversy than there is and I remember Holmgren saying he doesn't like QB competitions. He's said that he doesn't think that they're beneficial. So, I expect we'll know our starting QB at the beginning of TC. And the only way to unseat the starter is if the starter gets injured or REALLY bombs it
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