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He's a Manning. He didn't look terrible, he was playing possum until he had the league right where he wanted them.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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*sigh*
Manning always had an elite arm though. After his 1st year, his lowest TD total in any year has been 21. His biggest problem is that he throws interceptions. The team tried to rein him in somewhat, and took away his big plays.
Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Correct - because one was given 3 1/2 years to shine. The other, by people on this board - was given 1 1/2 years.
Face it, if Eli had been a Brown - after 2 years people would've been calling for his head, willing to trade anything and everything to get the "top" qb of whatever that draft had.
Kinda like now. With Colt.
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Quote:
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Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Correct - because one was given 3 1/2 years to shine. The other, by people on this board - was given 1 1/2 years.
Face it, if Eli had been a Brown - after 2 years people would've been calling for his head, willing to trade anything and everything to get the "top" qb of whatever that draft had.
Kinda like now. With Colt.
Except Eli was a highly touted prospect and actually showed some ability to play.
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'Toad,
I can't argue that Campbell would be better than what we have on the roster. What I argue is if it's worth it to go out and get him. I really don't think that it is. You look for 'the guy' until you've found him. We have stopgaps coming out of our ears right now. No need to tack on another.
Oober, I get your point, but sometimes that franchise guy can't be had. When that happens, you don't forsake an upgrade just because.
Sometimes going all-in for a "franchise guy" becomes a detriment to the future. It's ironic that the Raiders are proof of this. They gave up a huge bounty of money and picks to replace Campbell when he got hurt. It's very hard to say palmer drastically improved that team, and going forward, the Raiders are out a 1st, a 2nd, and salary cap space and payroll flexibility because they weren't content to walk before they could run.
So if the choices were to ride it out with mccoy and let some mid-rounder sit and learn, or upgrade to Campbell and let the mid-rounder learn, well, that isn't much of a decision to make, not to me anyway.
Sometimes its ok to get a little better, especially if that huge upgrade isn't available.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
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Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Correct - because one was given 3 1/2 years to shine. The other, by people on this board - was given 1 1/2 years.
Face it, if Eli had been a Brown - after 2 years people would've been calling for his head, willing to trade anything and everything to get the "top" qb of whatever that draft had.
Kinda like now. With Colt.
more apples to turnips comparisons.
Eli came with a first-round pedigree and matching tools. mccoy came with pedestrian tools and a longshot pedigree. In the NFL, if you have more tools and are drafted higher you get more time. Mccoy had neither and his time is up.
That's just how the league rolls.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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'Toad,
I can't argue that Campbell would be better than what we have on the roster. What I argue is if it's worth it to go out and get him. I really don't think that it is. You look for 'the guy' until you've found him. We have stopgaps coming out of our ears right now. No need to tack on another.
That's why I want to sign a stop gap vet like Campbell or Orton and draft RG3 and give him at least the 1st half of the season or the whole to sit and learn....with McCoy on board there will always be that "franchise battle" going on and it's no good for the locker room, that's why I would look to move him...of course, if he accepts a backup role, then keep him, but I think that ship has sailed the moment we "gave" him last season...he probably thinks he's a starter in this league now and will look to get playing time as long as he's young enough to be considered a starting option
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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'Toad,
I can't argue that Campbell would be better than what we have on the roster. What I argue is if it's worth it to go out and get him. I really don't think that it is. You look for 'the guy' until you've found him. We have stopgaps coming out of our ears right now. No need to tack on another.
Oober, I get your point, but sometimes that franchise guy can't be had. When that happens, you don't forsake an upgrade just because.
Sometimes going all-in for a "franchise guy" becomes a detriment to the future. It's ironic that the Raiders are proof of this. They gave up a huge bounty of money and picks to replace Campbell when he got hurt. It's very hard to say palmer drastically improved that team, and going forward, the Raiders are out a 1st, a 2nd, and salary cap space and payroll flexibility because they weren't content to walk before they could run.
So if the choices were to ride it out with mccoy and let some mid-rounder sit and learn, or upgrade to Campbell and let the mid-rounder learn, well, that isn't much of a decision to make, not to me anyway.
Sometimes its ok to get a little better, especially if that huge upgrade isn't available.
it's always OK to get a little better.
and in this case Campbell is a lot better than McCoy.
Go get em Phil.........
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Quote:
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Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Correct - because one was given 3 1/2 years to shine. The other, by people on this board - was given 1 1/2 years.
Face it, if Eli had been a Brown - after 2 years people would've been calling for his head, willing to trade anything and everything to get the "top" qb of whatever that draft had.
Kinda like now. With Colt.
more apples to turnips comparisons.
Eli came with a first-round pedigree and matching tools. mccoy came with pedestrian tools and a longshot pedigree. In the NFL, if you have more tools and are drafted higher you get more time. Mccoy had neither and his time is up.
That's just how the league rolls.
toad...After his first year, I wonder how many thought Joe Montana was going to blossom into "the Montana" we know today?
Even after his second season, I wonder how many thought Joe Montana had reached his ceiling?
If the 49ers judged Montana with the same standard you are applying to McCoy, there might not be the Joe Montana we know today.
I'm not saying Colt McCoy is the Joe Montana we know today...but the Colt McCoy we know today is very similar to the Joe Montana after his second year in the NFL.
I don't know what the Browns will do at QB and I'm open to anything the brain trust of the Browns thinks is best. If they give McCoy another season and focus on add more offensive weapons...fine with me.
...if they don't, fine with me too.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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FWIW - Montana's stats his 1st 3 years http://www.nfl.com/player/joemontana/2502166/careerstats In Joe's 1st year he only threw 23 passes so basically it was a sit and learn year. Year 2: 273 attempts 176 completions, 64.5% completion %, 1795 yrds, 15td and 9int Year 3: 488 attempt 311 completions, 67.7%, 3565 yrds, 19td and 12int
Last edited by Jester; 02/02/12 10:36 AM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
FWIW - Montana's stats his 1st 3 years
http://www.nfl.com/player/joemontana/2502166/careerstats
In Joe's 1st year he only threw 23 passes so basically it was a sit and learn year.
Year 2: 273 attempts 176 completions, 64.5% completion %, 1795 yrds, 15td and 9int
Year 3: 488 attempt 311 completions, 67.7%, 3565 yrds, 19td and 12int
In his third year, didn't he also QB an Superbowl winning team, or was it his fourth year..
Anyway, the key to his success was that from the get go, he had the same coach and the same system.. All they did was add quality around him and Boom.. Superbowl.
by saying that, I'm not going to make the leap that the same could happen to McCoy and the Browns (of course it could, but no leap from me)
But the most cynical, Anti McCoy (ytown) on here has to admit that the changes McCoy has had to deal with and the lack of talent around him aren't the best of situations. It's not an Ideal way to begin a career at all.
it is however, a way to determine if you got a guy with grit, guts and character.
Even the most ardent McCoy detractors should admit that McCoy has all that plus likability and apparent leadership.
But hey,, Let's just kick him to the curb..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
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Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
you forgot battler..he battles
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Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
Because you and a few others say it, it must be true, yet, Mike Holmgren, who without a doubt knows a helluva lot more than you do, wanted him..
What's that say about your assessment of his ability?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
you forgot battler..he battles
You say that as if it's a bad thing?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I in no way implied its a bad thing, that's just how he was described most often.
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I in no way implied its a bad thing, that's just how he was described most often.
Sorry, I'm just so used to cynics on here thinking they are more knowledgable then a Mike Holmgren.. drives me nuts..
My apologies....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I in no way implied its a bad thing, that's just how he was described most often.
Sorry, I'm just so used to cynics on here thinking they are more knowledgable then a Mike Holmgren.. drives me nuts..
My apologies....
Man .... I love your comments sometimes ......
If you criticize someone ..... in football, politics, or any other arena ...... well that's your opinion.
If someone who disagrees with you does so ..... you just can't believe that the poster in question thinks that they are smarter than the authority figure ........
Did you even stop and think that it's not a matter of who's smarter .... but rather just a difference of opinion. I bet that if Holmgren cut McCoy tomorrow that a lot of Holmgren supporters would suddenly flip on him. Would that make those supporters stupid, or somehow "blind Colt followers"? Not necessarily. They could just be people who believe that McCoy is the right person to lead the team, that he will become a great QB, and that such an action would be a huge mistake.
People are allowed to have their own opinions. If we all agree on everything this board will be pretty boring.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I have never once said that it drives me nuts when a person thinks that they are smarter than someone in the front office, the coach, or anyone else.
Rather, I have said that people have opinions, and though I may disagree with them, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't express them.
I will debate my points and beliefs as strongly as possible, but I never say "You're foolish because you disagree with Savage, Crennel, Mangini, Holmgren, or Heckert."
What I do find funny is that you evidently feel that it's OK to criticize the head coach ...... but not Holmgren. Don't you think that Shurmur knows more than you as well?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Come on Ytown you DO think you know more.. you've made it clear a million times,,
I knew the minute I said something about Holmgren knowing more than that poster, someone would come back with that.. or something like, "that's an old argument" or something like that...
Well, MY OPINION IS, that Holmgren knows more than you and more than most anyone on this board..
so, if Holmgren wanted McCoy, I doubt he has an arm strength issue.
Prove me wrong
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
lil greg...I was looking through some old scouting information and found it informative...if you care to read this..
Eighty-one players were selected before the San Francisco 49ers drafted Montana late in the third round. New 49ers coach Bill Walsh ignored the negative scouting reports on his rookie signal caller ("average" arm strength, no touch), and envisioned Montana as the orchestrator of his complex ball-control passing attack: "Joe's ….an excellent spontaneous thinker, a keen-witted athlete with a unique field of vision.
web page
Joe Montana
Before the 1979 draft, one scouting combine rated Montana a 6½ (out of 9). The report said: "He can thread the needle, but usually goes with his primary receiver and forces the ball to him even when he's in a crowd. He's a gutty, gambling, cocky type. Doesn't have great tools, but could eventually start."
Phil Simms (Giants), Steve Fuller (Chiefs) and Jack Thompson (Bengals) were selected ahead of Montana, a late third-round pick by the 49ers acquired from Dallas.
web page
web page
What sticks out about the Brady scouting report was that he was labeled as a system quarterback by the scout, a label that has pretty much held up as true in the pros. Brady has become a system quarterback, the first elite spread quarterback in the NFL in the way that Joe Montana became the first elite west coast quarterback in the NFL. Guys who are viewed as system passers, such as Colt McCoy or Kevin Kolb, almost universally do not get picked in the first round. I needed more context on this, so I looked up the scouting report of a guy who has had a very similar career to Brady in the same NFL era, but didn’t fall to the sixth round.
web page
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Please show me where I have ever said that I know more than the front office? I have a difference of opinion. There is a difference.
As far as Holmgren, he used a 3rd round pick on McCoy. McCoy was talked up, prior to the draft, as potentially a 1st round pick. Perhaps he felt that he was worth a flyer in the 3rd ..... despite not being worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.
A 3rd round pick is not a guaranteed starter. He is a player with warts. If Holmgren hit with McCoy, it's a home run. I don't think he did, so he struck out with a 3rd round pick ...... not that big a deal.
That is a plausible explanation for Holmgren taking McCoy without thinking that he is the 2nd coming of Brett Favre. IMHO. of course.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Which "system" would you be referring to?
The vertical attack of a few years ago,or the spread 'em out quick underneath stuff?
NE has morphed thru several O types since Brady has been there,and he's been successful in all of them.
The only "system" NE runs,is the one that fits thier personnel best.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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That's for sure.
Even on defense, they morph and change and adapt and adjust to whoever they have playing and what they do well.
That's one of Belichick's real strengths ... which is funny given that he was considered so rigid and stuck in his own ways when he was here.
IMHO, of course.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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A 3rd round pick is not a guaranteed starter. He is a player with warts.
So that means Joe Montana was a player with "warts" by the YT standard...lol...what does that make Tom Brady, a 7th round pick... 
I don't know what McCoy is destined to be in the NFL, but I do know that giving up on someone too soon is not good trait to have if you are an evaluator of talent, Walsh did not give up on Joe Montana even though his scouting report was not very glowing..and he did not give on Montana, even though he had a 2 yr career that was rather uneventful.
You just never know where the next good football player will come from or when he might finally blossom into the player a coach thought he would be.
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Which "system" would you be referring to?
bcb...I hope you understand, I did not write the scouting info.
If you have a question, click the link.
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My apologies,I thought you had written that.At times I have trouble following the bouncing ball.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Just because 1 or 2 later round picks have gone on to success does not mean that all of them will. By that logic, we should never give up on an UDFA RB because there have been several just this year alone who have out up 1000 yard seasons.
I have listened to what the front office and coach have said when asked about McCoy, and IMHO, they have been far less than effusive in their praise of him. I think that they look at the position as one they can, and probably must, upgrade. That's my take on things. You disagree.
Every player is an individual mac. Just because one player did something in the past doesn't necessarily mean that others will today, or in the future.
Besides, Montana started 8 games in his 1st 2 seasons. In his 3rd season, he completed 63% of his passes, for 3500 yards, 19 TDs and 12 INT. In that 1st season as a starter, he averaged 7.3 yards/pass attempt, which is one of the more meaningful stats for a QB. That was also in a different era as far as passing rules go. It would be nice to think that McCoy could be Joe Montana .... but the comparison is vague and fleeting at best. What do you see as commonalities between McCoy and Montana? I have seen you out this comparison up there, so what do you see as things they do in a similar fashion?
Oh .... and Montana also won the Super Bowl in his 1st full season as a starter.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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yeah, there are alot of examples of QBs needing time to figure the NFL out even after starting for awhile before they "get it"
Montana is not one of those QBs. His 'full season' stats from that 8 game initial stretch would be 30TDs 18Ints ~3600yds while completing in the mid 60s %.
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Please show me where I have ever said that I know more than the front office? I have a difference of opinion. There is a difference.
As far as Holmgren, he used a 3rd round pick on McCoy. McCoy was talked up, prior to the draft, as potentially a 1st round pick. Perhaps he felt that he was worth a flyer in the 3rd ..... despite not being worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.
A 3rd round pick is not a guaranteed starter. He is a player with warts. If Holmgren hit with McCoy, it's a home run. I don't think he did, so he struck out with a 3rd round pick ...... not that big a deal.
That is a plausible explanation for Holmgren taking McCoy without thinking that he is the 2nd coming of Brett Favre. IMHO. of course.
Sounds like the issue is How do you pronounce Potato..
#GMSTRONG
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Whatever.
Have a nice day.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I have listened to what the front office and coach have said when asked about McCoy, and IMHO, they have been far less than effusive in their praise of him. I think that they look at the position as one they can, and probably must, upgrade. That's my take on things. You disagree.
yt...you are assuming...
Did you notice who started this Jason Campbell thread?
Did you notice who started the Matt Flynn thread?
I'm just using football history and counter some of your many opinions...in this case...
"A 3rd round pick is not a guaranteed starter. He is a player with warts."
Did Montana have warts too?
I simply posted some facts, such as Montana's scouting reports...
...one scouting report stated he had no better than "an average arm, no touch" ...
...another scouting, "one scouting combine rated Montana a 6½ (out of 9)"
Bill Walsh ignored the scouting reports and drafted Montana in the "3rd" round.
Montana learned Walsh's WCO his first two seasons while the 49ers built an outstanding supporting cast during that period. When Montana started in 81, the offense and defense were loaded with talent.
Montana was fortunate that it was Walsh who drafted him...the point, one never knows when a qb might blossom...
As I have posted, concerning the QB, the Browns have several options that could be considered, but I'm not about to claim I know which option the Browns pursue...
...the latest..McNabb joins the team...now I'm not claiming McNabb is going to be the Browns starter...just saying, it could be a possibility.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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As far as Holmgren, he used a 3rd round pick on McCoy. McCoy was talked up, prior to the draft, as potentially a 1st round pick. Perhaps he felt that he was worth a flyer in the 3rd .....
I doubt very much that Holmgren was influenced by whomever "talked up" McCoy prior to the draft. I'm pretty sure that he made his decision by his own evaluation and interview.
He's not us as in being swayed by talking heads and media scouting reports. That's how we decide. That and seeing a couple of games where we don't even get to break down plays with any real understanding of what someone was supposed to be doing.
That's all we got. So we do it that way.
Holmgren and Co. have so much more at their disposal.
That's not to say either that because they have all that plus experience on their side that they will always be right and we'll always be wrong. Because it doesn't always work out that way. Many times they are wrong while we are right.
But I'm reminded of the story of the lady who kept winning football parlays and was asked how she did it. She explained that she always chose the team who had the nicest looking uniforms. She was basically rooting for laundry!
That is often how we are right. Not because we know anything. Because we don't. We have no real, valuable information. Just our eyes watching a very few games along with an internet full of stats and scouting reports. Hardly the stuff one would bet their life on.
Still, it's fun for us fans to play GM or coach so we do. It gets us deeper into the game until it permeates our lives. It's a good thing. And if we are right once in a while it makes us begin to think we actually know something when in fact we don't. But it feels good and we crow about it.
And the circle stays unbroken.
#gmstrong
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I have never once said that it drives me nuts when a person thinks that they are smarter than someone in the front office, the coach, or anyone else.
Rather, I have said that people have opinions, and though I may disagree with them, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't express them.
I will debate my points and beliefs as strongly as possible, but I never say "You're foolish because you disagree with Savage, Crennel, Mangini, Holmgren, or Heckert."
What I do find funny is that you evidently feel that it's OK to criticize the head coach ...... but not Holmgren. Don't you think that Shurmur knows more than you as well?
I believe this portion of the debate started surrounding this comment, which was not made by you...
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Colt has no arm at all, what the hell were people watching this year? I don't care if he's tough, likable, or a "leader", he can't throw a football, that is pretty important for the QB position.
And I happen to agree with Daman's comment.. If this is true, if this is so blatantly obvious and so absolute, then I would expect Colt to be cut next week. Because if a bunch of know-nothing message board posters can see that Colt has no redeeming QB ability what-so-ever, then surely to God Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur can see it.. right?..... and every other GM can see it so you can't possibly trade him.. right?
So unless Colt is cut in the next couple weeks then these people who know absolutely and beyond a shadow of a doubt that he will never amount to anything.. are saying they know more than Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur..
yebat' Putin
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But I'm reminded of the story of the lady who kept winning football parlays and was asked how she did it. She explained that she always chose the team who had the nicest looking uniforms. She was basically rooting for laundry!
I think that was an episode of Cheers.
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that was the quote that caused me to say what I said and Yeah, I stand by it 100%
And thank you for at least acknowledging what I said... and what I meant..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I tend to agree with that comment to a degree.
McCoy not only cannot make all of the throws, he didn't make most of the throws last year. His passes were off target (on an NFL level, IMO) and he did not hit guys on time and/or in stride. He can't throw outs with authority or consistency. He can't throw intermediate or deep passes with any authority and consistency. The two things he did pretty well were throwing to a stopped target on shorter passes, and medium depth passes on the run on a roll out to the right.
Personnel people make mistakes. Guys don't develop as expected. It's not a perfect science for anyone. I wouldn't expect the FO to tear him down, because if they can't find the right guy they may have to go with him again. If nothing else, he might be an OK backup.
What good does it do for the front office to say anything about the kid in the middle of the season ... or even at the end of the season? Are they going to throw a guy like Wallace in who is a finished product? They rode with him and hoped that he would develop.
They can believe that he is as good as he is ever going to be, and still see value with him as a backup ........ or even hope that he might get better even while not expecting it. That can happen with a player, especially a young player. It won't go on forever, but in the 1st few seasons he may be seen as someone who might have a chance ..... even if it's not a great chance, of getting better. If he doesn't, then he'll be gone. He is already likely at the point where he'll be replaced as the starter IMO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Comparing Manning to McCoy is comparing apples to turnips. Not only are they not the same ... they are not even in the same classification.
Correct - because one was given 3 1/2 years to shine. The other, by people on this board - was given 1 1/2 years.
Face it, if Eli had been a Brown - after 2 years people would've been calling for his head, willing to trade anything and everything to get the "top" qb of whatever that draft had.
Kinda like now. With Colt.
more apples to turnips comparisons.
Eli came with a first-round pedigree and matching tools. mccoy came with pedestrian tools and a longshot pedigree. In the NFL, if you have more tools and are drafted higher you get more time. Mccoy had neither and his time is up.
That's just how the league rolls.
toad...After his first year, I wonder how many thought Joe Montana was going to blossom into "the Montana" we know today?
Even after his second season, I wonder how many thought Joe Montana had reached his ceiling?
If the 49ers judged Montana with the same standard you are applying to McCoy, there might not be the Joe Montana we know today.
I'm not saying Colt McCoy is the Joe Montana we know today...but the Colt McCoy we know today is very similar to the Joe Montana after his second year in the NFL.
I don't know what the Browns will do at QB and I'm open to anything the brain trust of the Browns thinks is best. If they give McCoy another season and focus on add more offensive weapons...fine with me.
...if they don't, fine with me too.
For every Joe Montana that beats the odds, there are 20 Charlie Frye's that don't.
For every Drew Brees that beats the odds, there are 20 Rick Mirer's that don't.
Let's try to deal with what's a good bet, not what's theoretically possible.
As an aside, here's something that I find telling. There's been more than one poster say they are fine if the team keeps McCoy, and they are fine if they replace him.
Man, if a guy really and honestly believes a player has "it" they would NEVER be fine with that player being replaced...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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For every Joe Montana that beats the odds, there are 20 Charlie Frye's that don't.
For every Drew Brees that beats the odds, there are 20 Rick Mirer's that don't.
I agree..don't know what the odds are for McCoy, but many more qbs fail to blossom into a good or great starter, than do.
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Let's try to deal with what's a good bet, not what's theoretically possible.
I'm not a betting man...but I do know in theory and to a degree, in reality, that McCoy could blossom into a good starting qb.
In all honesty, I thought McCoy played better as a rookie than he did this season. McCoy's first 6 games as a rookie, his
...comp%..65.75
...qbrating..92.8
I have a problem understanding what happened to 'that' Colt McCoy..the one we saw last season, in his first 6 starts? What happened to McCoy's qb play when Shurmur took over vs playing for Mangini and Daboll?
I'm confident Holmgren has asked the same question and likely knows why McCoy regressed under Shurmur and his WCO.
The question becomes, can the McCoy we watched play very well for 6 games as a rookie..can the Browns find that guy and will they give him a chance to build upon his rookie performance?
For those waiting to point out that McCoy's last two games as a rookie were real stinkers, against the Steelers and Ravens...it's a good bet that the players knew Mangini was leaving and they were simply playing out the string.
I'm 100% comfortable tossing those two starts out, when asking what happened to the McCoy we saw in 2010.
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As an aside, here's something that I find telling. There's been more than one poster say they are fine if the team keeps McCoy, and they are fine if they replace him.
Telling?...I have no idea what the point of this is?
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Man, if a guy really and honestly believes a player has "it" they would NEVER be fine with that player being replaced...
I'm fine with deferring to the Browns brain trust, knowing they have much more information and knowledge to judge the "it" factor. I'm not about to claim I know more than those running this franchise.
It's about doing what is best for the team, for the long term, not the short term. If going to a different qb is what Holmgren and Co. think is best, I'm fine with that and will support it.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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