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Keeping Colt...may not be that bad of a decision.... Putting aside the dropped passes and the whole new scheme and coaches.. the short off season...He did appear to do more than what was seen in the 4-12 season.. And honestly... we all expected this..and how many would be ticked if we had a 6-10 - 7-9 season... Just to screw up the draft pick position..... Here's a bit of what Colt did do... McCoy led the Browns to a 3-3 start before losing back-to-back road games at San Francisco (Oct. 30) and Houston (Nov. 6). It was the franchise’s best start since they went 3-3 to open the 2007 season and first time since 2007 that the Browns won one of their first three regular season games. In his 13 starts, McCoy completed 265 of 463 attempts for 2,733 yards and 14 touchdowns against 11 interceptions. In a 31-13 loss to the Tennessee Titans at Cleveland Browns Stadium on Oct. 2, McCoy set two team records with 40 completions and 61 attempts. McCoy’s record of 61 attempts broke Brian Sipe’s mark of 57, which was set on Sept. 7, 1981 against the San Diego Chargers. The 40 completions beat Couch’s record of 36 from Sept. 22, 2002 at Tennessee. Key Number: 13. In addition to improving on the team’s completions, attempts, yards and touchdowns, McCoy and Wallace combined for just 13 interceptions on the season. Those 13 interceptions were the lowest since Bernie Kosar and Todd Philcox combined to throw just 10 in 1991. link Here's what we had before him.... Ken Dorsey...Dorsey's Stats: 0-3 Record, completed 47%, 370 yards, 0 TD, 7 INT, 26.4 rating Bruce Gradkowski...Gradkowski's Stats: 0-1 Record, 33%, 26 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 2.8 rating Spergon Wynn...Wynn's Stats: 0-1 Record, 40.7%, 167 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT, 41.2 rating Doug Pederson...Pederson's Stats: 1-7 Record, 55.7%, 1,047 yards, 2 TD, 8 INT, 56.6 rating... Luke McCown...McCown's Stats: 0-4 Record, 49%, 608 yards, 4 TD, 7 INT, 52.6 rating Ty Detmer...Detmer's Stats: 0-2, 51.6%, 548 yards, 4 TD, 2 INT, 75.7 rating Jake Delhomme...Delhomme's Stats: 0-1, 55%, 324 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT, 48.2 rating Brady Quinn...Quinn's Stats: 4-9 Record, 52%, 1,902 yards, 10 TD, 9 INT, 66.8 rating Trent Dilfer...Dilfer's Stats: 4-7 Record, 60%, 2,321 yards, 11 TD, 12 INT, 76.9 rating Charlie Frye...Frye's Stats: 5-13 record, 63%, 3,490 yards, 14 TD, 23 INT, 71.2 rating Jeff Garcia...Garcia's Stats: 3-7 record, 57%, 1,731 yards, 10 TD, 9 INT, 76.7 rating Tim Couch...Couch's Stats: 22-37 Record, 60%, 11,131 yards, 64 TD, 67 INT, 75.1 rating Kelly Holcomb...Holcomb's Stats: 4-9 Record, 64%, 3,438 yards, 26 TD, 21 INT, 83.3 rating Derek Anderson...Anderson's Stats: 16-18 Record, 53%, 7,083 yards, 46 TD, 45 INT, 70 rating Honestly we have had no luck at QB... and a lot of that is due to not having the QB aligned with the scheme or the correct Coaching staff... Defiantly nothing impressive with the past since " 99 " Imo...keep Colt for another season....Draft a QB... and if possible...Let him sit and learn for a couple of seasons...
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not sure if that will make anyone feel any better about Colt, but it sure will depress a bunch of people when reminded about how great our recent QB history has been. ugh.
i wouldn't be terribly upset if we keep Colt and draft Nick Foles to eventually replace him (if Colt falters).
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Wow. Now that is a depressing list 
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There is only one reason I would give Colt the benefit of a doubt this year.
Robo. Colt had a number one receiver for most of the year that could do nothing.
I am not impressed with Colt but having Robo as his number one really hurt.
Joe Thomas #73
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I'm in the camp of giving Colt one more year and getting him some weapons but the more I think about it, the more I think the stars are aligning to take RG3. I don;t want this pick but if we make it, I hope we're damn sure cuz if he's not the next big thing, we've taken steps backwards.... and seriously, we've taken enough of them that we might be behind where we started.
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Colt absolutely had a disappointing year, but so did the entire team.
And it hardly begins with just Robo. It's been beaten to death by those of us that have paid attention, but a short offseason, a new offense, his #1 was M.I.A., then his #2 (MoMass) was hobbled, Cribbs was a relative non-factor... by the end of the season, the Go-To guys were none of the above. It was Little and Norwood.
Then, there is the not-so-small matter of the right side of the line and then the constant injury shuffle at running back with a Fullback that could barely see the field and was largely ineffective when he did.
Hell, when ya break it down, there are a LOT of instances where McCoy was one of the ONLY things that DID work right (don't get me wrong, he did plenty wrong, too).
He wasn't as solid and reliable as Joe T, but he was hardly the biggest problem on Offense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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There is only one reason I would give Colt the benefit of a doubt this year.
Robo. Colt had a number one receiver for most of the year that could do nothing.
I am not impressed with Colt but having Robo as his number one really hurt.
That is sad. MoMass who was hurt all training camp, Robiskie who they outright released, a rookie who hasn't played in over a year and is relatively new to his position, Cribbs a special teams ace, and Norwood. All learning a new offense together. Throw in a hurt and disgruntled Hillis, the ever and always undependable Hardesty, a new FB and Obagnaya for a good chunk and two near rookies on the Oline with a turnstyle at right tackle.Sounds like he should have taken us to the Super Bowl if you ask me!
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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and you didn't even mention the inconsistencies at TE w/ Watson getting hurt, Alex Smith not blocking well (his supposed forte) and our inability to get Moore on the field.
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I'm in the camp of giving Colt one more year and getting him some weapons but the more I think about it, the more I think the stars are aligning to take RG3. I don;t want this pick but if we make it, I hope we're damn sure cuz if he's not the next big thing, we've taken steps backwards.... and seriously, we've taken enough of them that we might be behind where we started.
If we move up to take ANY QB and it doesn't pan out, we WILL be taking steps backwards - years and years backwards. This is why I'm so adamantly against it. We are not in a position where we can afford to risk setting ourselves back so greatly for a single player. We NEED to build something more substantial before we think about those big crazy moves.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Colt absolutely had a disappointing year, but so did the entire team.
Really? 
I think our D kept us in most games...at least that's what I saw...if we had a QB that was a decent game manager and put together 3-4 scoring drives/game we would have a .500 record...and that'd still be well below AVG QB play I'm talking about
Colt regressed from unknown OVER-hyped decent 3rd round rookie game manager QB to OVER-whelmed by basic WCO 1st year starter...a system everyone and their mom said was tailored to his strengths (and it was)...those supposed strengths all of a sudden evaporated...maybe he never had them...at least think about that for a minute...after all, there was a reason teams passed THREE times on the most winningest QB in College football in a horrible QB class...maybe, just maybe 32 GMs knew what they were looking at..and yes I include Heckert as he would not have drafted him...who knows how much further he would have slid if Holmgren didn't outsmart himself and pretend he was a good College talent evaluator
and before you throw even more excuses around....take a look outside of a Browns forum for a change and read what non biased outsiders have to say about our QB talent level....here's Walter football's take from his recent mock:
"I don't really need to explain why the Browns would want to move up for Robert Griffin. Colt McCoy is a lost cause, so the Brows will select Griffin as their new franchise quarterback. "
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I'm in the camp of giving Colt one more year and getting him some weapons but the more I think about it, the more I think the stars are aligning to take RG3. I don;t want this pick but if we make it, I hope we're damn sure cuz if he's not the next big thing, we've taken steps backwards.... and seriously, we've taken enough of them that we might be behind where we started.
If we move up to take ANY QB and it doesn't pan out, we WILL be taking steps backwards - years and years backwards. This is why I'm so adamantly against it. We are not in a position where we can afford to risk setting ourselves back so greatly for a single player. We NEED to build something more substantial before we think about those big crazy moves.
and we will never take any step beyond AVG a best with guys like Frye or McCoy at QB...so that measn YOU HAVE TO take that risk at some point...and when would it be better? We're picking 4th...even IF we trade up we would lose maybe our ATL 1st rounder or our 2nd and a 4th..so what? we still would field an entire draft class...and IF we hit on that QB...every other succesful picks would just be an added bonus
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Where did you get these stats?
Obviously Delhomme's are incorrect.
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Where did you get these stats?
Obviously Delhomme's are incorrect.
good catch. i was too depressed at the names to look at the stats. looking at Jake's he was 2-2 2TDs 7INTs 63.4QBrating in CLE
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DelhJa00.htm
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I don't believe we will trade up for a QB but Colt will not be the starting QB next year. The Lerner interview was very telling about Colt and his future with the Browns.
I like Colt,I wanted the guy to succeed but he really struggles hitting the receivers in stride and the one thing this system demands is the ability to hit the receiver in stride. I think Colt can be a good player in this league one day, but he is years away. You dont have to make all the throws but you have to make accurate throws on time.
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I don't believe we will trade up for a QB but Colt will not be the starting QB next year. The Lerner interview was very telling about Colt and his future with the Browns.
Just asking what in the Lerner interview gave you that impression? I know when asked about McCoy that he joked and said “(Joking) I suddenly lose the ability to speak when I’m asked that question.” He might be taking a jab at himself after the whole Brady Quinn gaff. I am pretty sure Ol Randy was a big proponent of drafting him. Of course you lose all credibility after that..lol I don't see anything that says he feels a certain way other than he knows what time it is..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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"“One of the things that is crucial right now to take a significant step forward is try to get this quarterback situation settled".
Going off memory but this was the comment i was referencing.
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I think our D kept us in most games...at least that's what I saw
no our D was terrible....how anyone can say they even remotely played well is borderline insane....our D numbers were a mirage....a mirage...
Our Run D ranked 30th in the entire league in Run Defense!
Our Run Defense sucked!
we only ranked 10th overall because our Pass d "looked good" and i use the term looked good half jokingly
The ONLY reason our Pass D looked decent was because....why risk passing the ball when you can just run the ball on the Browns?
OC had ZERO REASON to take risks against our Defense because our Run defense was atrocious....atrocious is a nice word...as using the world for what they were would go against this forums rules...
Our Defense sucked last year....and our DC Jauron is gutless...he had rothlisberger hurt where he couldn't move and not one single time did he blitz him at all...he didn't even try to bring pressure on him because Jauron was afraid...it was plainly evident...
We blame our QB for losing, but its much more then that.....
The primary reason this team cna't win is because of our Run Defense.
if you want to win "regularly" in the NFL you must do 3 things:
1. run the football
2. stop the run
3. pressure the QB
We do NONE of those things...you look at Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc....they are in the mix every year....you look at their Run Defense and Sack numbers compared to ours...and look at their rushing numbers over the last decade...its not even close.
until this team can do those 3 things above I don't care who you put at QB we will not win games....
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"“One of the things that is crucial right now to take a significant step forward is try to get this quarterback situation settled".
Going off memory but this was the comment i was referencing.
Okay, Just wondering. I guess you can look at it that way among others. I really don't believe Randy knows the answer to that which is why he puts his trust in Holmgren and Heckert.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/25/12 09:05 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I think our D kept us in most games...at least that's what I saw
no our D was terrible....how anyone can say they even remotely played well is borderline insane....our D numbers were a mirage....a mirage...
Our Run D ranked 30th in the entire league in Run Defense!
Our Run Defense sucked!
we only ranked 10th overall because our Pass d "looked good" and i use the term looked good half jokingly
The ONLY reason our Pass D looked decent was because....why risk passing the ball when you can just run the ball on the Browns?
OC had ZERO REASON to take risks against our Defense because our Run defense was atrocious....atrocious is a nice word...as using the world for what they were would go against this forums rules...
Our Defense sucked last year....and our DC Jauron is gutless...he had rothlisberger hurt where he couldn't move and not one single time did he blitz him at all...he didn't even try to bring pressure on him because Jauron was afraid...it was plainly evident...
We blame our QB for losing, but its much more then that.....
The primary reason this team cna't win is because of our Run Defense.
if you want to win "regularly" in the NFL you must do 3 things:
1. run the football
2. stop the run
3. pressure the QB
We do NONE of those things...you look at Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc....they are in the mix every year....you look at their Run Defense and Sack numbers compared to ours...and look at their rushing numbers over the last decade...its not even close.
until this team can do those 3 things above I don't care who you put at QB we will not win games....
Exactly! Which is why I think getting that Thumper in the Middle and Moving DQ outside seems to be logical. I know what the stats say about DQ but if you had that guy with Gocung and DQ on the sides you would see the difference. Not HiJacking..continue on.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Where did you get these stats?
Obviously Delhomme's are incorrect.
I was all over the place...Sorry Heldawg...I didn't want to turn this into a stat thread... I know you and no logo want better links.. all I can do is use examples of what we have been doing for some years now...
I would like to know how this organization can find the franchise QB we need...and how it would be viable on means on making it happen.....my apologizes for not presenting this thread as I would have liked too....
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no our D was terrible....how anyone can say they even remotely played well is borderline insane....our D numbers were a mirage....a mirage...
Our D was t6th for yds/play, t5th for yds/pass, 6th yds/PA and t9th in QB rating against
yeah..."terrible"
Oh look, our GM invested high picks in CB, S and DL...you know...positions to defend the pass...because..you know...it's a pass 1st league
If it was that easy to defeat us, why would teams not run away with th lead and instead had to sweat it out until the 4th...ask PIT, they wanted to rest Roethli in that game...I wonder why they didn't get it done against our "terrible" defense
Then again...when 2of 3 of Loyal, Knight and akronjoe are on the same side it means the opposite is a safe bet...sorry, but you guys a pure opinion fade material 
I'm feeling good at what I'm looking at when I disagree with you and Loyal
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[Then again...when 2of 3 of Loyal, Knight and akronjoe are on the same side it means the opposite is a safe bet...sorry, but you guys a pure opinion fade material
I'm feeling good at what I'm looking at when I disagree with you and Loyal
That's more than what I can say I think of you! I barely read any of your stuff because quite frankly..You are clueless!  I can't think of anything that you have pranced around here all knowing that has been right. Chances are if you, Toad or YTown are talking about QB's, I just laugh and know I am thinking clearly.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/25/12 09:55 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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That's more than what I can say I think of you! I barely read any of your stuff because quite frankly..You are clueless!
You know.. we have all been fans and going through this for to long... I respect most opinions on this board.... hell when we are winning..we may all be friends... 
The point is... until this team can bond...and get things on the same page... ...how can you expect us to...
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"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I'd say they know less. Too many call for a new quarterback every year. Too many call for a new coach almost yearly. Now we're getting the "we need a new front office".
These self proclaimed "experts" are laughable. Just read their posts. Experts, they are not.
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I'm cool w/ Colt.. he can start another year.. I'm certain he will steadily progress in this offense. He's not horrible, doesn't throw a lot of INT's.. I like that.
He just doesn't have the arm to make all the throws.. at least he didnt last season.. not sure if that will change or not. but he's a gamer. He can ball.
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Too many call for a new quarterback every year.
Ty Detmer, Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Garcia, Trent Dilfer, Chrlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Derek Anderson, Jake Delhomme.
That's pretty much the list of people that have been NAMED Starting QB at some point, others have come in and started, but that's not the same thing...
And you wonder why people want a better QB...
Heck not even using revisionist history, besides the Before every season Optimism everyone has, was anyone ever REALLY confident going in with ANY of these guys? Seriously?
Last edited by OSGuy; 01/26/12 12:02 AM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He just doesn't have the arm to make all the throws..
Hey brother... How do we really know that. ? And I appreciate you mentioning this..but...and my apologies for the but...But how can we.. the FO ..the team..and the fans look at it as being an arm issue...?
What i would like to hear is..did the receivers give him the opportunity to make those a completed pass..by catching them...or did he make the receivers drop them...due to a bad pass....If the team didn't lead the league in dropped passes... it may be easier to put the blame on the QB...
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What i would like to hear is..did the receivers give him the opportunity to make those a completed pass..by catching them...or did he make the receivers drop them...due to a bad pass....If the team didn't lead the league in dropped passes... it may be easier to put the blame on the QB...
I think it was both their faults. Colt threw some pretty bad passes this year. He seemed to regress from last year or something
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was anyone ever REALLY confident going in with ANY of these guys?
Honestly...No...
But because I'm desperate to see this team succeed ... I assumed it could happen...that is my biggest problem....speaking for my self..
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was anyone ever REALLY confident going in with ANY of these guys?
Honestly...No...
But because I'm desperate to see this team succeed ... I assumed it could happen...that is my biggest problem....speaking for my self..
Heck I talked myself into thinking there was a chance Delhomme could "spark" us... He's had a really up anddown career, like literally, every other year he's either good or really bad...
And coming off his worst season, I figured he could possibly bounce back... Eh, not so much...
(That first preseason game didn't stifle my optimism any either, jerks..)
Last edited by OSGuy; 01/26/12 12:19 AM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think it was both their faults. Colt threw some pretty bad passes this year. He seemed to regress from last year or something
I agree to a point PeteyD... Last year was a whole different scheme...this year was new receiver's and a new scheme.... Add the injuries in and Colt was just as new to the org.. as was everyone...
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Heck I talked myself into thinking there was a chance Delhomme could "spark" us... He's had a really up anddown career, like literally, every other year he's either good or really bad...
I believe that's the biggest reason why this team doesn't succeed..We get QB's that are either older and need a job to pay off bills..and don't really fit..the scheme..but think they are here to teach the young guys we have...that last as long as they do... one season...
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I agree to a point PeteyD... Last year was a whole different scheme...this year was new receiver's and a new scheme.... Add the injuries in and Colt was just as new to the org.. as was everyone...
That's exactly why am not really throwing Colt under the bus the way some people have.
He didn't get any OTA's, no QB camp, no time with the QB Coach before training camp. He sort of walked into the WCO blind. He spent some time with Brett Favre, held some Camp Colts, and attended Camp Cribbs. He worked out on his own and everything for sure, but being able to spend time with the WR's to work on timing. Working with the QB coach. Stuff like that is vital.
The problem is that he visibly has limitations. I was unloading asphalt at the Shelly Dock in Cleveland, and some guy said to me "Man, I really like Colt McCoy. I just wish we could put his heart into Tim Couch's body." Guy kind of has a point, but who knows, Colt could get better. And he's definitely the type of guy I want to pull for.
My favorite QB ever is Chad Pennington. He couldn't throw much of a deep ball, but he was accurate as ever and always found the open guy. That's what I was sort of hoping Colt would become, but last year he just wasn't very accurate (although that could be a timing issue). But it's hard for me not to think that he won't improve with another year in the offense and a full offseason of training. If given another season, I do think he'll improve his decision making and his throws will be better. The question is, how good can he become
I've been pushing hard for Andrew Luck. The reason why is because I feel that having an elite QB gives you a shot at competing. I've had a very good record with the QBs I like a lot, and I don't show major interest in QBs often, the last ones I can think of, Rogers, Ben, and Eli (wasn't high on Rivers). Andrew Luck has fallen in that category for me now as well. The best QBs play for the super bowl. But I've always felt, if we don't get Andrew Luck, I'd like to stick with McCoy. Sort of the if we go that route, let's go really big mentality.
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I've had a very good record with the QBs I like a lot, and I don't show major interest in QBs often, the last ones I can think of, Rogers, Ben, and Eli (
What about Cam..Did he strike any interests with you ? I really liked him..
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I've had a very good record with the QBs I like a lot, and I don't show major interest in QBs often, the last ones I can think of, Rogers, Ben, and Eli (
What about Cam..Did he strike any interests with you ? I really liked him..
Nope. Not Cam. Nobody recently that I can think of period.......... I liked Sam Bradford. I still think he'll be a good QB. But I like Luck much more than I liked him. But otherwise, before Bradford, I don't see anyone on the NFL stats sheet until Rogers. I wasn't interested in Jemarcus nor Quinn, wasn't interested in Leinart or Vince Young, I liked Matt Stafford at UGA but thought he shoulda stayed another year, wasn't too big on Quinn, wasn't big on Cam or Gabbert or any of these QBs that were just drafted. But Andrew Luck, I think he'll definitely become one of those very good QBs, much higher on him than i've been on really anyone
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If Colt can get us a good 7-8 wins consistently.. bringing in new talent around him will push us to 9+ wins consistently.. and possibly talking playoffs..
At least I hope.
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Legend
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I don't believe we will trade up for a QB but Colt will not be the starting QB next year. The Lerner interview was very telling about Colt and his future with the Browns.
Just asking what in the Lerner interview gave you that impression? I know when asked about McCoy that he joked and said “(Joking) I suddenly lose the ability to speak when I’m asked that question.” He might be taking a jab at himself after the whole Brady Quinn gaff. I am pretty sure Ol Randy was a big proponent of drafting him. Of course you lose all credibility after that..lol I don't see anything that says he feels a certain way other than he knows what time it is..
He made comments that would lead one to believe he doesn't feel McCoy is the "man".
But, remember something. Lerner hired Holmgren to make those decisions.
So, we'll see.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Colt can get us a good 7-8 wins consistently.. bringing in new talent around him will push us to 9+ wins consistently.. and possibly talking playoffs..
At least I hope.
And we'll NEVER see an AFC Championship Game and Playoffs running through and in Cleveland... 
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Quote:
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If Colt can get us a good 7-8 wins consistently.. bringing in new talent around him will push us to 9+ wins consistently.. and possibly talking playoffs..
At least I hope.
And we'll NEVER see an AFC Championship Game and Playoffs running through and in Cleveland...
Exactly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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