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osu...you miss the point...
...the video was to remind us why NFL coaching staffs will try to limit RG3's running game and just how easily it is to lose your qb for the season.
Needless to say, RG will not be running the option play in the NFL..
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Needless to say, RG will not be running the option play in the NFL..
Good.. b/c he is a better thrower than runner..
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just clicking....
Just a few general thoughts
Peterson and the vikes situation- the vikes would be drafting 1st if it wasn't for Peterson. That defensive backfield is a joke. Teams can score at will thru the air. McNabb was a callousal mistake. The rookie wasn't ready. The widereceivers are really bad. So there really is no point to saying look how bad a team did even with a great running back, its still a team game...... But if you have a stud in the backfield, at least the defense has to game plan to stop that player. It opens up other stuff. So, drafting Richardson would not be the worst move that the browns could do. Its a safe pick that will change the way a defensive game plans.
I've stayed out of the QB discussions. I am waiting for the combine numbers. I want to see how tall RGIII is -- closer to 6ft or a legit 6'2?? To me he looks small, and a small scrambling QB is going to get hurt. He may be phenomenal when he plays, but what good is he on the bench. Look at Vick if you want some proof of this, guy runs, gets hit, injures something, tries to play thru it and then he sucks.
Back to the topic, i would rather the browns sign Hillis to an incentive contract - it just makes the most sense to keep what you got. I was all for sending him packing in the middle of the year, but it seems that he has mended the fences. Losing Hillis and drafting Richardson is a wash, having both would be really nice, but not likely.
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You can talk ratios and attempted passes and completions and YPA or anything you want to dream up...
I didn't dream them up, they are stats... and I didn't start the "stat war" about how often he runs, somebody else did that.. I just tried to put them in a different context.. so don't get upset when I answer stats with other stats.
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In the NFL, coaching staffs will not want Griffin running the ball like he did in college, where he averaged 161 carries per season. Coaches will try to break Griffin of his running habit preferring he just throw the ball away if the pass is not there, purely for safety reasons,
Of course they will.. but it's still nice to know that if he does have to break the pocket and run, he has excellent speed and vision.. Every QB... every player that comes into the NFL in this draft, even Andrew Luck, will have habits that NFL coaches try to correct or change... so the fact that RGIII has played college the way he was supposed to play college and will now be asked to adapt his game into the NFL, isn't a negative... especially because everybody will be asked to do it in one way or another..
I'm sure the coaches in Carolina do not want to see Newton running as much as he did last year, they will try to break him of that... some QBs will have to be taught to not try to force the ball in with pure velocity like they got away with in college, that was a big one for Elway...
The fact that he has something that will need to be improved upon by the coaches isn't really a big deal, especially when it is something mental that can be fixed relatively quickly.
yebat' Putin
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Man, I'm reading all this stuff about Newton and how they want him to run less.. and I can't help thinking of Mike Vick and how the very same thing was said of him in Atlanta.... Putting aside is off field issues, he didn't take them anywhere really..
Maybe I'm wrong with this, but taking a guy high in the draft with a skill set that made him stand out in College, then trying to make him change that skill set seems kinda nutty.
Improve, refine, teach new stuff.. cool, but change the very thing(s) that made the team take him in the first place?
#GMSTRONG
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NFC Title Game, constant playoff team? Vick didn't suck in ATL, he's admitted that he's worked on being a better passer now than back then, basically trying to get by on his sheer athletic ability...
I've yet to hear anyone really touting drafting RG3 because of his running ability.
They talk about his amazing athletic ability yes, but most people, myself included, are interested in his Deep ball ability and his ability to put balls "in a spot" very quickly...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Plus the fact that RG3 has very good accuracy, especially throwing to moving targets.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Maybe I'm wrong with this, but taking a guy high in the draft with a skill set that made him stand out in College, then trying to make him change that skill set seems kinda nutty.
Improve, refine, teach new stuff.. cool, but change the very thing(s) that made the team take him in the first place?
You are only correct if the Browns are taking him because he was a great runner.. which I would hope they are not. He won a Heisman in large part because he can run but I doubt the Browns care about that.
His skill set at throwing the football is quite good... They aren't going to be asking him to do anything he didn't do in college, they are just going to be asking him to do it in different proportion.. rather than 1 run for every 3 throws, it might be 1 run for every 5 throws... He's still a good thrower of the ball and he's a good runner of the ball but if he wants a prolonged and productive NFL career, it will need to be more throws and less runs.
yebat' Putin
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Because someone brought up RG3. I just replied. I plead not guilty. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Post deleted by Referee7
Last edited by Rabid Dawgs; 02/19/12 11:05 PM.
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I have a feeling the Browns will have a announcement on Hillis soon.
Hunt around and you can find some preliminary information.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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woah... sure looks like it.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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for the people that don't really have the time to hunt, can you share a link???
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woah... sure looks like it.
What did you find?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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for the people that don't really have the time to hunt, can you share a link???
It's all rumor right now, I suspect that's why a link was not shared.
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Quote:
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for the people that don't really have the time to hunt, can you share a link???
It's all rumor right now, I suspect that's why a link was not shared.
The rumor, as reported at Grid-Iron-Gab, also says that during week 3, Hillis had a staph infection, which could EASILY be confused w/ strep throat . . . 
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I hunted and found a website I have never heard of. And even that website said "take this one with a grain on salt".
While I would be happy if we re-signed Hillis, I won't believe in until one of the usual suspects reports it.
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All Pro
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I saw one on the ESPN app for Android from Nationalfootballauthority.com. As was already stated just rumor as of now however.
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NRTU jb.
Was never the biggest believer in Hillis in terms of knowing he was trustworthy on a couple of fronts, and still don't think he's worth big bucks. No way in Hell we waste a tag on him. I wouldn't do better than a two year deal worth middle-of-the-pack money.
Taking this a plausible step further, if I'm the Browns, I stick at 4 and make a ton of noise about how I honestly love Richardson. I make it clear to the media that Hillis isn't a priority. I make it clear Griffin isn't on my radar. I then hope Griffin falls to us so that I can move back a couple of spots to 6 and try to get Richardson there. He's as sure a lock as there's been in a decade. He would eliminate the need to roll the dice on Hillis, and would even allow us to stick with what we currently have on the roster at the RB position. Why? Because he is a true three-down back. That free's up more free agent money, money that can go towards one of the numerous quality receivers available in free agency.
I know we need a franchise QB. However, I believe Richardson represents the best combination of production, value, safety, and reliability. Drafting him solves multiple problems with one move.
Now to hook the QB folks, with the extra pick we get for going from 4 to 6 we can use that to move up from 22 and get Tannehill. 
Hillis can still come back, but it would have to be a smallish deal. No big loss if we take Richardson.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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NRTU jb.
Was never the biggest believer in Hillis in terms of knowing he was trustworthy on a couple of fronts, and still don't think he's worth big bucks. No way in Hell we waste a tag on him. I wouldn't do better than a two year deal worth middle-of-the-pack money.
Taking this a plausible step further, if I'm the Browns, I stick at 4 and make a ton of noise about how I honestly love Richardson. I make it clear to the media that Hillis isn't a priority. I make it clear Griffin isn't on my radar. I then hope Griffin falls to us so that I can move back a couple of spots to 6 and try to get Richardson there. He's as sure a lock as there's been in a decade. He would eliminate the need to roll the dice on Hillis, and would even allow us to stick with what we currently have on the roster at the RB position. Why? Because he is a true three-down back. That free's up more free agent money, money that can go towards one of the numerous quality receivers available in free agency.
I know we need a franchise QB. However, I believe Richardson represents the best combination of production, value, safety, and reliability. Drafting him solves multiple problems with one move.
Hillis can still come back, but it would have to be a smallish deal. No big loss if we take Richardson.
Which is what I think the Brown's might be thinking Toad. Value, safety, reliability are keys to those high picks, not to mention allowing you to feel good about sticking to your plan to build through the draft. That and they pick up an extra pick.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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That's a nice plan and all but Hillis (any FA RB worth more than salt for that matter) will sign a contract BEFORE draft weekend...if we let Hillis go and don't sign any other RB, we're pretty much giving away that we'll take Richardson
and I'll just disagree that Richardson is the best "value" at 4...especially if we bring back Hillis...I am ok with Richardson after a trade down that at least gets us another 2nd...and RG and Luck better are off the board if we go that route
#gmstrong
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In my wildest dreams I NEVER , EVER thought I would see Toad suggest picking a RB that high in the draft.:) I've heard nothing but a RB is a dime a dozen, short shelf life, easily hurt, and no longer key to an offensive line from you for years.
Not even A.P could sway Toad's opinion and wanted a LT over the likes of him. We ALL like Joe, know we needed him and am happy he's a Brown, but no Offensive lineman has ever turned around a team like a Marshal Faulk, Eric Dickerson or A.P type of player. I think we all have come to the realization that we need a couple TRUE studs on offense and if is not a QB it might as well be with the next person who touches the ball the most.
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if is not a QB it might as well be with the next person who touches the ball the most.
...Center?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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JC: Looks like people are changing their minds on Trent Richardson.
Me, i've been on board with the guy all along. I view him as a Potential HOF RB
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Quote:
JC: Looks like people are changing their minds on Trent Richardson.
Me, i've been on board with the guy all along. I view him as a Potential HOF RB
I am a potential HOF running back.
It would be a great story.....old guy runs over the NFL.
"Gimmie" the ball coach.
I do agree Richardson is a pretty darn solid prospect.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I love a great running game .....
However, the NFL is changing.
There was a certain team, last place in rushing, who just won the Super Bowl. We need to change with it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I love a great running game .....
However, the NFL is changing.
There was a certain team, last place in rushing, who just won the Super Bowl. We need to change with it.
I am not pimping Richardson, but I am not going to say he is chopped liver either.
Come on man. There was a time you were telling me Couch had potential, so you don't have to tell me that a QB is a teams biggest need.
I am not trying to gig you here....really....back in the days of the Couch Wars I didn't have many friends on here, but you were always respectful and had a open mind, and I respected that. I consider you a friend even if we have never met.
Trust me here Bubba....I know we need a new QB and am all in for Griffin......if not someone else at the position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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there's another theory out there that just being the copycat is just good enough to get you beat.
if you want to win big, then come up with something different from the rest.
#gmstrong
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If you look at teams with top 10 running attacks, about half of them are playoff teams, and half are loser teams.
I think that you have to be able to run the ball when you want to run the ball to be successful. That does not mean running it enough to justify taking a RB super high in the draft.
Look at last year's draft.
1) Ingram: 474 yards
2) Williams: 0 yards
2) Vereen: 57 yards
2) Leshoure: 0 yards
2) Thomas: 581 yards
3) Murray: 897 yards
3) Ridley: 441 yards
3) Green: 11 yards
Not much help for teams, despite RB being one of the positions that "transitions" easier than almost any other.
Look at 2010:
1) Spiller: 283 and 561 yards
1) Matthews: 678 and 1091 yards.
1) Best: 555 and 390 yards
2) Gerhart: 322 and 531 yards
2) Tate: 0 and 942 yards
2) Hardesty: 0 and 266 yards
2009:
1) Moreno: 947, 779, and 179 yards
1) Brown: 281, 497, and 645 yards
1) Wells: 793, 397, and 1047 yards
2) McCoy: 637, 1080, 1309 yards
2008:
1) McFadden: 499, 357, 1157, and 614 yards
1) Stewart: 836, 1133, 770, and 761 yards
1) Jones: 266, 685, 800, and 575 yards
1) Mendenhall: 58, 1108, 1273, and 928 yards
1) Johnson: 1228, 2006, 1364, and1047 yards
2) Forte: 1238, 929, 1069, and 997 yards
2) Rice: 454, 1339, 1220, and 1364 yards
That's 4 years worth of drafts, looking at the first 2 rounds. (first 3 last year, obviously) Who are the impact guys? Who has made a big enough impact to be considered at #4 overall? Johnson? Definitely. He was the 5th RB taken in 2008. Rice has been the next best, and he was a 2nd rounder. Who else has been worth the investment?
Now add in that we traded away a busted QB for a couple of low draft picks and Peyton Hillis who gave us 1177 yards and then 587 in an injury plagued year. Hell, that's better than many of the backs drafted in the 1st and 2nd of the past 4 drafts.
It just seems like elite teams are de-emphasizing the run, and relying more on the pass, and even the WCO philosophy of the short pass replacing the run. Does taking a RB 4th overall make sense when that type of change is taking place throughout the league? Great RBs like Jones-Drew, Jackson, and Peterson sit home when the playoffs roll around as often as not ..... and not even because they aren't doing their share. The NFL today is a QB driven league. The rules are altered to ensure it. A great RB helps ....... but RB by committee, and passing in all situations has replaced a power running game for most of the elite teams.
I used to desperately want a team that could impose its will on another team with a powerful running game. Those days have passed fr now though, and we have to adjust to what works today. It takes a team that can attack with the passing game in all situations t win today .... and that's where our focus has to be. We can find RBs who are good enough for this offense in any number of places ... trades, free agency, UDFA, and later rounds of the draft. Taking a RB in the first just does not make sense to me at all. The value is simply not there. Not anymore.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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there's another theory out there that just being the copycat is just good enough to get you beat.
if you want to win big, then come up with something different from the rest.
There is also the philosophy that says, "when the rules dictate that you pass, you pass."
Teams that win big are not reinventing the wheel. The closest thing to a team doing that was the Broncos last year. They won a playoff game ... then went home. Their passing game was just not potent enough to go up against the powerful Patriots. Their running game, good as it is, stood no chance.
Teams used t win with defense and a strong running game. I love that style of football. That's what I grew up on. Beat the other guy with your defense. Smash him in the mouth and make him beg for mercy with the running game. I love "beat down" football.
It doesn't win championships anymore though. The rules have changed. You can beat another team ..... but it's hard to beat the rules too.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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That's 4 years worth of drafts, looking at the first 2 rounds. (first 3 last year, obviously) Who are the impact guys? Who has made a big enough impact to be considered at #4 overall? Johnson? Definitely. He was the 5th RB taken in 2008. Rice has been the next best, and he was a 2nd rounder. Who else has been worth the investment?
To me, Richardson is in a class of his own. Even among NFL RBs. I watch/watched plenty of Rutgers, I loved Ray Rice. Guy is from 25 min away from me, my Dad's hometown. Where I'm from (CT), we really don't get many football players in the NFL. Plus he played for a local team (Rutgers), so I followed him.
Ray Rice was nowhere near the prospect Richardson is, and talent wise, Richardson blows him out of the water. I'm not usually high on picking up RBs in the draft. I'm one of those that thinks you can get them further down.
Trent Richardson isn't an ordinary prospect though. He transcends other RBs prospects that have come along lately. I think the guy is VERY VERY good.
If we do not feel comfortable with RG3, Richardson is exactly the guy I want. I understand the importance of a QB. I'd love one that's better than Colt, and I guess that's all on the opinion the FO has of RG3.
No position affects a game like the QB position. But afterwards, if we don't go QB, Richardson is about the safest/best pick you can make. He steps on the field and he's quite possibly the best RB in the NFL.
Statistics might not show it if we don't fix that RT position (and I have my doubts that we will. I mean, jesus, we haven't in forever; I think the FO has been out to . me off for a long while!), but Richardson is certainly a stud and a half. He's next to Andrew Luck as the best players in the draft IMO.
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He may be a safe pick, but RBs simply do not effect winning games like they used to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He may be a safe pick, but RBs simply do not effect winning games like they used to.
I don't think anyones really disputing that...
But in this draft at #4 if we can't have Luck or RG3... Would you take Claiborne, or Blackmon, or anyone really over Richardson? I don't know that I would...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I dunno.
Having a pair of really, really good CBs has a certain appeal. We really haven't had that since Dixon/Minnifield. I think that would improve our defense tremendously.
I would probably take Richardson before Blackmon, because I don't see the value taking Blackmon at 4.
I would take RG3, obviously, first. (assuming Luck is gone) I would do whatever I could to move up to get him if necessary. If I cannot get a QB, I would probably try to move down.
If I could not, then I would probably try to decide whether Claiborne or Richardson would help the team more. If the first 3 picks went Luck, RG3, and Claiborne, then I would most likely then look at Richardson if I could not trade down. I still don't know if he's a great value there, but there are so few real truly great players at the top of this draft that he might make sense in that case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Luck and Griffin go 1-2 and we're not the team that traded up, I am giddy if that third name is not Blackmon. i run up to the stand with that card. We need a gamebreaker and he is one.
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Quote:
He may be a safe pick, but RBs simply do not effect winning games like they used to.
I think Ray Rice and Arian Foster would disagree with you.. I think Adrian Peterson might as well..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Legend
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How many wins per year has Adrian Peterson averaged in his career? He has had 2 winning seasons in his career. Brett Favre was the QB for one of them. He has run for 6752 yards and 64 TDs. He's a beast. It simply does not translate into wins and Super Bowls. The Vikings have gone a combined 39-41 while Peterson has been there. This is the first year that Arian Foster has played on a team with a winning record. When was he drafted anyway ..... I can't .... quite ..... recall ........ Ray Rice is a great player on a really good team. The Ravens have, obviously, one of the best defense in football as well, and they have a really good overall team. When I look at great RBs like Peterson, and Jones-Drew, and Jackson, who are tremendously talented and productive players ... on teams that lose more than they win, then I know that running the ball is nowhere near the end all/be all anymore. I found this rather interesting. There were exactly 15 1000 yard rushers this year. 6 of them played on playoff teams. I just don't see running the ball translating into wins as much as it used to. I don't see having one great RB translating into wins like it used to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I love a great running game .....
how right you are, I'm in the mind set, we take Richardson at # 4, a O-lineman at # 22 Guard or RT depends on what we get in FA and 1st develop a Soild running game, Pressure will be off of Colt and things would open up alot more in the passing game for him, Yes we still need a WR or two and we still must pass, but a solid ground game controling offense would do wonders keeping other teams off the fields. And face it, defenses are not prepared to face a up the gut running team these days, I dont feel thier in football type of shape to stop the run all game long, most games the def. is huffing & puffing for air...
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
He may be a safe pick, but RBs simply do not effect winning games like they used to.
I don't totally buy that, but I agree you don't need to get your backs at the top of the draft. I might start looking in the 1st round if I was drafting in the late teens, early twenties, so I would be good if we went back with our 2nd pick(if we have one).
The reason I say I don't totally buy it is there is a winning formula that holds true 80% of the time.
Assuming turnovers are equal or you win that area, if your rushing attempts for any yardage and total completions are greater than your opponents number, you win the game. So being able to keep running the ball is important. It controls the game in your favor. Forty is the number you want. 25 rushing attempts plus 15 completions wins. You can reverse that as well, but 25 completions is getting a bit hard.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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WOW....LOL You really want a QB don't you 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns have renewed
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