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Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about new Browns and Indians and hoping for a Gee whiz for the Cavaliers
Published: Saturday, February 04, 2012, 11:55 PM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

Pat Shurmur's relationship with new offensive coordinator Brad Childress is an understandable reason why the Browns eventually hired the former Vikings head coach, says Terry Pluto.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Sure, you might be thinking a little about football today. But we never ignore the entire NE Ohio sports scene.

About Brad Childress...

1. The Browns believe in the West Coast Offense (WCO) and in continuity. They believe it works and it wins. We can debate it, but this is their gospel and they believe the best way to prove it is to have an offensive coaching staff coming out of the same book, same page and same paragraph. Yes, there will be room to disagree, but it will be about how best to make the WCO work.

2. Which brings us to why the Browns hired Childress as the offensive coordinator. They interviewed far more than the two known candidates -- Mike Sherman and Childress. But those two were the finalists, because they both have head coaching and WCO experience. Head coach Pat Shurmur felt a very strong comfort level with Childress, as they both worked together in Philadelphia for seven years.

3. Here's a quick history of the Browns' branch of the WCO. Team president Mike Holmgren trained Andy Reid, who was a quarterback coach at Green Bay. When Reid became the head coach at Philadelphia, two assistants that he hired were Childress and Shurmur. For three years, Childress was the offensive coordinator (2002-05) with Shurmur as the quarterback coach. They were on the staff for seven years together.

4. Yes, you can keep tracing the WCO partly back to Paul Brown, and certainly to Bill Walsh. It was Walsh who begot Holmgren, who begot Reid, who begot Shurmur and Childress.

5. While Reid called the plays on the field, he was on the headset with Childress. Shurmur sat next to Childress in the press box during the games. Childress and Shurmur had the offensive game plan in front of them, with Childress offering input to Reid before plays were called.

6. These WCO coaches don't believe the actual play-caller is that big of a deal. They talk about "collaboration," and how they already know come game day which plays they will use in almost every situation. It's a matter of picking from a short list.

7. Childress was the play-caller his first year (2006) as Minnesota's head coach. He then turned it over to his offensive coordinator. But those close to the Vikings said Childress still had a major say in the game plan and actual play-calling.

8. As of now, it appears Shurmur will work in a Reid-type system. He will make the play calls from the field. It hasn't been established if Childress will be on the field or in the press box. No matter where Childress is situated, he will confer with Shurmur.

9. Childress/Shurmur sat next to each other as OC/QB coach for about 60 games over the years with the Eagles, helping Reid with the play calling. Yes, the Browns had Mark Whipple as quarterback coach, but he spent only 2008 with the Eagles as "offensive assistant." That was Shurmur's last year with the Eagles. Whipple remains as quarterback coach, but Childress becomes the main guy when it comes to offense.

10. The real work for Childress will be during the week, planning and running the practices. The Browns were surprised at some of the criticism over the hiring. They see him as a head coach who took the Vikings from six wins to 12 wins before it fell apart in his fifth season -- when he was fired after a 3-7 start. He didn't have Brett Favre until the 12-4 season. In his first three seasons, the quarterbacks for Childress were Brad Johnson, Tarvaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte.

About the Browns and the draft ...


1. For the last few weeks, I'd been hearing about the Browns going defense with the No. 4 pick, focusing on LSU cornerback Morris Clairborne. It's no secret Holmgren/Tom Heckert like lots of good cornerbacks, and Claiborne is the best. The Browns have Joe Haden at one spot, and Sheldon Brown at the other. But Brown could be moving to safety, especially if Mike Adams leaves via free agency. The Browns may be intrigued by the idea of a Haden/Claiborne combination at the corner for several years. That is one of the theories of Dan Shonka from Ourlads.

2. But this week, I keep hearing defensive end -- namely Quinton Coples. I wonder how much of this has to do with Couples having a monster week at the Senior Bowl and the fact that Jayme Mitchell proved that he was not a starter last season. They have no one else at the opposite end from Jabaal Sheard. ESPN's Mel Kiper on the North Carolina product: "Bouncing back from a so-so season, he is dominating Senior Bowl practices. The skill set is hard to look past. The physical traits and talent are there; it's more a matter of consistency. Great size and length to hold the edge as a 4-3 defensive end."

3. Mitchell played 14 games (13 starts) and had only 1.5 sacks. In his first five games, he had 19 tackles. In the last nine games, 13 tackles. He was just out there much of the time.

4. I'm concerned about linebackers, where the Browns have D'Qwell Jackson in the middle. A free agent, he is expected to be back. They like Chris Gocong on one side. Scott Fujita returns on the other side, but he will be 33 in April and has been hurt in the last three seasons. Since coming to the Browns, Fujita has played 30 games and missed 18. They do believe Kaluka Maiava is a capable starter, but I'd love to see a playmaker at one of the outside linebacker spots.

5. Some fans may be screaming, "What about the offense?" My guess is they will go offense with the 22nd pick, where they may find a receiver. Of course, it's early February, and a lot can change. But I hear many teams believe a good receiver will be available when the Browns use their No. 22 pick. web page

WOW,, Pluto not giving any credence to the thought that the Browns want a different QB.. AT ALL...

At least not one in the first round....

I can see it now Mour...

IF we do not see RGIII as a QB we can run with for years...We're gonna SIT at 4...

We're gonna listen to offers...And if we can get this years 2 or 3 and a 2013 First Rounder from someone...We will move down to 8-10 area...And the DE is targeted...Coples...

If we sit at 4 due no significant offer...It's Claiborne...

Right now I see one of these 3 a Brown in April...

RGIII
Claiborne
Coples

And I see the WR...OLB...RT coming at 22...

It would not surprise me one bit if we went down and took Coples DE...

Then took Adams RT at 22...

THAT kinda stuff is right up Heckert's alley dating back to Reid and Philly...

Corner's & Trenches...

We'll know by then what was done in FA...We ink one of the BEST WR's available...It's pertinent that we get some VETERAN presence for the Receiver core and get MoMass out of the 2 spot...And Cribbs virtually OFF the field...Sign Hillis to bang with Hardesty and Jackson...And TAG DQ...I could easily see this coming...

WR Inked
RB Inked
And we stick with McCoy another year...

1a) Coples DE
1b) Adams RT
2a) Zach Brown OLB
2b) Stephon Gilmore CB (From our move down)
3) Lavonte David LB
4a) Joe Adams WR
4b) Robert Lester FS

I could live with McCoy another year with that draft and the signing of a TOP Quality WR and Hillis...

jc...

First...good read with info on Chilly I was not aware of..concerning how Shurmur and Chilly worked well together in Philly.

On the draft, I asked this question this week...

Should the Browns abandon "the plan" of rebuilding the team via the draft, using their high draft picks to trade up in the draft, in order to draft just "one man", a qb?

I have a hard time believing Heckert and Holmgren are going to abandon their rebuilding plan in a year when the team could make significant strides, filling two of their positions of need with 1st round talent, to draft one player (qb) at a position that may or may not need to be filled.

Trading away our hard earned draft picks to move up to draft a qb would be something I would expect from the Browns under previous front offices. Abandoning the rebuilding process when the team is maybe "half built" is something I would expect from past front offices...but it is not something I would expect to see from Heckert and Holmgren.

After the Browns have built/filled the supporting cast on offense...OL, WR and defense...LB, DE, CB....then if the Browns have 1st round draft picks they can afford to trade away to move up in a draft to get a qb, fine...but not now, just two years into the rebuilding process.

Is a qb via the draft this year a "want", or is it a "need" ?

..jmho..mac

j/c

Here's how I see it...

H&H are sitting in their offices - like puppetmasters - secretly drumming up interest in the Browns taking RG III.

They like RG III as a potential star (potential) and have some questions about McCoy. They realize that there is simply not enough talent on this team right now and they cannot take a 'boom-or-bust chance' with the 4th overall pick.

By drumming up (puppeting up) interest in RG III they are trying to intice someone to trade up and take RG III ahead of us. When that happens, it ensures that all but one of the following will be sitting there at #4:

Kalil...Blackmon...Claiborne...Richardson...Coples....insert your guy's name here

Our phone starts ringing like crazy if Kalil is still there...we trade out of #4 and get a bounty of picks.

If Kalil is gone, we have several coveted guys to choose from....any of whom I would be happy with - except for Richardson...many of whom may also make our phone ring.

We could still trade out of #4...get a bounty of picks...and STILL get Claiborne or Blackmon...or we just snatch the one we want at #4 and move on.

Bottom line: The more interest in RG III, the better our #4 becomes...and I would not be surprised if we continue to fan the flames of desire for RG III...it only improves our options.

Note: I like RG III plenty enough...but NOT at #4 and certainly NOT before that.

Adams isn't good enough in the run game for Heckert to spend more than 2 mins evaluating. Think Pashos, Shawn Andrews with the big old bubble but that can get low and move the pile. Glenn looks like a Heckert tackle. Swartz might fit the bill as well. Adcock is the intriguing prospect but he has to prove he can block from a 3 point stance.

Quote:

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Abandoning the rebuilding process

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Seriously???

We're talking about a QB here...We're talkin' about the 22 pick in this draft...IF it even takes that to get to 2 for Griffin...And if we do cherish Griffin and give up 22 to be SURE to secure em'...We don't Abandon anything...Please...

And if we do make the move for the QB...We are set in stone going forward with him...Whether it works or not will be determined...But make no mistake about it...We go get Griffin and HE IS THE FUTURE...

There isn't a player at 22 that I would rather have than what we deem as the QB of the Future...

One could make a serious argument in this draft that any player from about 12 down thru 37 could be interchanged...There's THAT much level off in talent in those spots...

And now I'm gonna pull one of these stupid stat comparison things some of u guys do...

Previous years picks at 22...Since 2000...

Castonzo OT
Thomas WR
Harvin WR
Jones RB
Quinn QB
Lawson LB
Clayton WR
Losman QB
Grossman QB
Thomas DE
Allen DB
McIntosh OT

And u could keep going and you'll find NONE are bonafide solid players who've made any significant impact on their teams to make u say WOW I'm glad we got that guy at 22...

I think you missed the point, entirely:

You don't build through the draft by giving away all of your high picks in the draft.
Analyze it and spin it any way you want - the two options are counter to each other. You are either rebuilding your team through the draft, or you are selling off your draft for one player.

However, there are certain positions that you may have to move up to fill.

If we want RG3, and we trade even 22 to go up and get him, then we haven't given up 2 picks ..... because we were going to use one on him anyway. We would have "given away" 1 extra pick. If he is the right player, then that's a small price to pay.

It just amazes me that so many place so little value on the QB position.

Teams simply do not win Super Bowls anymore without an elite passing game. An elite passing game requires an elite QB. If there is a QB at the top of this draft that we consider elite, then if this front office doesn't do everything they can to go get him, then they are negligent in their responsibility to the team.

I don't think that they are dumb enough to undervalue the QB position. Whether or not they value one particular QB may be open to debate .... but if they do value a particular QB, then they must do whatever they can to go get him.

I don't think its so much that people don't value the QB position as it is they are not sold on Griffin. We'll see in April what Holmgren and Heckert think. I am not sold on Griffin, but I'll accept that H&H know more than me if they take him. I just hope those who are sold on Griffin don't have to be talked off the ledge if we don't take him.

Why trade up to get someone who's going to fall to us anyway?

I'm not even talking about that .....

When this off-season started, we had quite a few people saying that McCoy just hadn't been given a chance ...... that we just needed to surround him with more talent so that he could become the QB he was destined to be ...... and that we shouldn't trade up for any QB, even Luck, who is the best prospect to hit the NFL in over a decade.

Some people have said that trading both #1 this year to grab Luck would be too much of a price to pay. I just don't understand that line of thinking.

As far as RG# ... I do think that we will make a huge mistake if we are unable to move up to get Luck, and then do not get RG3. I think that he will be a special player in the NFL. That will be determined over the next several years.

I would be backing your argument strongly if I thought RG3 was a good choice.

If the circumstances were that RG3 is coveted by the FO, and that other teams are trying to trade to #2 to get him, you have to logically out-bid other teams. A franchise QB is worth more than the two picks that would be used to select him. A perfectly sound argument, totally get where you're coming from.

I wouldn't mind trading up for Luck with the same logic in mind.
Trade up for Luck or Trade down are my preferred outcomes come April.

That's how I feel... if they are totally sold on Luck or RG3 and can get him at #2 for not TOO much then I'm fine with going to get him.

I am of the mind set though that there is a lot we still need so I like more draft picks than less. I really feel that we are either going to stay on #4 and take defense (if RG3 isn't there or isn't 'the man') or we're going to trade down.

We'll see.. still a couple months to go through and as others have said everything can change depending on who we get through FA

about the only way I want to move up to 2 is if we can then trade up to 1.

Anyway being serious Im of the same mind set. Im not sold on the guy, at all.
Im not making the picks so it doesnt matter what I think anyway. Fun to talk about though. I've said it in other threads so wont rehash it here. Im for trading down and getting picks next year if its posible.

It has nothing to do with the QB position. Regardless of position, my statement holds: You cannot build through the draft while trading away your draft.

THAT is the point. Your silly RG3 agenda has nothing to do with it.


And, by the way, I find it funny that everyone is so on RG3's jock when nobody was even talking about him in the top half of the first round until whatshisname decided to not declare.... desperation has made it so y'all now consider him worthy of a Top 3 pick when before whatshisname returning for his senior year, nobody would have... and most talked of him as a 2nd rounder.

Speaking for myself, I liked RG3 over Barkley.

Sanchez and Leinart have made me leery of USC QBs.

I'd like to see what Jaws and the football experts have to say about RG3 too, cause right now I'm not sure on the guy. My questions are; can he play in our West Coast Offense? Can he read defenses and go through his progression reads? and can he stand up to the punishment he'll take in the NFL, cause he looks awfully skinny to me?

I am so sick and tired of hearing about the WCO I could puke !

I guess Terry Pluto comes from the planet Pluto.

Come on man!

Lerner said on the radio the QB situation keeps him up at night. Mike Holmgren in his very first press conference said his most important decision will be the quarterback decision.

The only fair assessment of Colt McCoy is "hope he can get better with more tools around him". It is not like McCoy as a third pick is a heavy investment nor has he in any measure secured the position.

Holmgren and Shurmur have both said they are not anointing Colt as the starter. Both have also said they need to address the offense which is ranked 31st.

What more needs to be said?

The last two first rounders were Taylor and Haden plus Sheard in the second.

Does it need to be any more clear?

Last years trade down was made to secure more picks. If someone offers to trade up to your position you have the option to trade down. When you have extra picks you have the ammo to go after someone you covet or to address a positional weakness. How many times do you expect to have a top four pick?

How often when you have a need is there someone there that has the skillset to address your weakness especially at quarterback?

Terry Pluto needs to come down to earth.

LOL PLuto has never been afraid to step out on the skinniest of limbs. When he was with the Akron paper, he used to routinely have columns where he would argue with and berate himself over past columns and things he had said/predicted.

They were hilarious columns.

I enjoy reading Pluto's stuff, even when I don;t agree with him.

Quote:

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And, by the way, I find it funny that everyone is so on RG3's jock when nobody was even talking about him in the top half of the first round until whatshisname decided to not declare.... desperation has made it so y'all now consider him worthy of a Top 3 pick when before whatshisname returning for his senior year, nobody would have... and most talked of him as a 2nd rounder.

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It would be a great story if this were actually true. My October 7th mock draft had RG3 at 5 and Barkley at 6. This was two months before Barkley would announce that he was staying for his senior year.

My elite list of prospects consist of 1. Luck 2. Claiborne 3. Richardson So imho I could very well see Claiborne going #4 to the Browns.

#22 we can probably go bpa and end up with QB, DE or WR. Might have to go DE here and then try to move up from 37.

It is true, regardless of whatever value you place on your mock.

I'll bet I can find 10 other mocks talking about RG3 in the top 5 before Barkley chose to stay. RG3 has been there for a long time.

And that has precisely what to do with what people on here were saying?

Edit: Actually, please do. It looks like Barkley announced that he was going to stay on Dec. 22nd..... show me mocks - "reputable" ones, not homemade - that show this.

How are we going to define reputable? The sites you consider reputable (probably very different from my definition, don't keep them up). And more importantly, what does it matter how reputable they are? RG3 has been in this discussion for a while; any mock draft, regardless of how "reputable it is" shows that. You said no one was talking about RG3 in that range before Barkley didn't declare, and obviously he was, unless I'm some visionary, and I assure you, I'm not.

Just did a quick search, really didn't pay attention or look at them but here are some. I had another one but I posted the wrong link..oh well.


November
november
november
november
Before the season

December

So we've decided I'm a visionary? Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Correct. RG was 10th, 11th, 10th, 11th, not in the first round, and I forget the last link.

If you go back to September and October he was only half way (or less) into his junior year.

Many guys move up based on their final college year.

general reply....

franchise!!!! franchise!!!! we need a franchise QB!!!!!!!!

What the heck is that anyway?

Oh....its the guy we relate with a team that has been great for years....

Grahm...rip

Montana?
Young?
Farve?
Aikmen?

These guys are kinda old....

Bernie!!!! everyone used to love him...smart...accurate.....yeah!!!...oh wait....tv guys said he was "as slow as an alcoholic giraffe" back in the 80's....let me think...

Elway....just say NO to horse teeth....blah

still too old....sigh

Peyton....kinda old and hurt...big name though
Brady? taken
Bree's? Much too short....
burger...vomit

Rodgers? hmm.....

I got it.......TEBOW!!!!! It was like.....Denver.....TEBOW.....i thought of the name and instantly i knew the team.....I'll bet we can get him cheep.....they can probably resign quinn....BRADY quinn.....Tom BRADY.....It might rub off......

We can run the option....they'll think we're gonna run the WCO....we'll surprise them good!!!!

FRANCHISE!!!!! Superbowl here we come!!!!!


I've even got a backup plan.....if that don't work we can draft one......i've got the "back to the future" delorean.....great for cleveland....stainless steel.....don't rust...

actually i just made that up...i'll have to guess like everyone else....

Luck
rg3

they could be...depending on who you talk to....both got all the cheat codes on madden down cold....


oh crap....i forgot about defense

Baltimore!!!! Ray Lewis!!! Franchise!!!!

Minnifield and Dixon.....franchise!!!!

Freeney....franchise

Polamalu....damn the steelers got 2

there is more...but my fingers hurt


CLEVELAND!!!!! Change the coach!!! new gm!!! coordinators!!! 4-3...3-4..heavy run....pass!!!! didn't' work after 16 games? DO OVER!!! Fire everyone....

we'll go down in history as the team with the biggest payroll for coaches and front office people that we pay to "just stay away!!!"

WE need big plays!!!
(this obviously implies long bombs......drama...edge of your seat!)

kinda like a double secret WCO.....modified of course....




lets just draft some good nfl starters and build the team right and let them learn maybe?

Is patience a Free agent?

we gotta get that guy!