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#659162 02/06/12 07:44 PM
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From - http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2012qcoples.php

Quinton Coples Scouting Report
By Charlie Campbell

Strengths:
Ideal size
Good speed around the edge
Can beat tackles with a speed rush
Quick get off of snap
Fast, strong hands
Athletic
Repertoire of pass-rushing moves
Power to bull rush
Hip flexibility
Solid knee bend
Holds ground in run defense
Versatile; can rush from different positions
Is able to play in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme
Can beat double teams
Good pad level
Durable



Weaknesses:
Good but not great speed
Some criticize his motor

Summary: Coples enters the 2012 NFL Draft as the top 4-3 defensive end. He had a breakout 2010 season with 10 sacks, 15.5 tackles for loss, 59 tackles and two forced fumbles as a junior. He also showed the flexibility to rush from the inside at defensive tackle. His speed and quickness was a difficult task for guards.

In his senior season, Coples faced constant double teams, but stayed reasonably productive. He totaled 55 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss, 7.5 sacks, three forced fumbles and a plethora of quarterback hurries. North Carolina also went to a 3-4 defense at times, and Coples played well as a five-technique defensive end. At the Senior Bowl, Coples was dominant in the one-on-one pass rushing drills and showed that he will make offenses pay when they single block him. He absolutely destroyed offensive tackle Zebrie Sanders with speed rushes around the corner and bull rushes through the right tackle. It was an impressive week that confirmed Coples' high draft grade.

When Coples gets leverage, it is over. He has too much strength for tackles to hold back and is too fast for them to recover to move in front of. In the NFL, he would be best as a 4-3 defensive end where he can rush the passer with free abandon. Coples has the strength and size to be left defensive end, and when lining up there, his speed has been too much for right tackles to handle. He also has the speed to battle left tackles as a right defensive end. Left tackles don't typically see ends with Coples' power, size and speed. Coples is a solid run defender who holds his ground and can disrupt running plays that go the perimeter on his side. If Coples lands with a good coach who keeps him motivated and focused, he could be a Pro Bowl defensive end.



Player Comparison: Will Smith. Both Smith and Coples are defensive ends who are heavier than typical speed rushers. Both can use length and strength to beat offensive tackles. Smith and Coples have a speed element to their game, but do not the blinding speed of rushers like Jason Pierre-Paul or Julius Peppers.

For the New Orleans Saints, Smith has had a fine pro career. Smith (6-3, 282) has totaled 61.5 sacks in eight seasons with a career high of 13 sacks in 2009. In the 2004 NFL Draft, Smith was viewed as a high draft pick but slid to the 18th selection. A drop that far is unlikely for Coples, but it is possible that he could get into the 10-12 range. In the NFL, Coples could be a rusher and have a career that is comparable to Smith's.

NFL Matches: Jacksonville, Miami, Buffalo, Seattle, Philadelphia

The Jaguars are the first team that has a need for a 4-3 end, and Coples could easily land in Jacksonville with the seventh pick. If he gets past them, it would be surprising if he fell past Buffalo. They have the 10th pick and badly need defensive ends. The Seahawks need a defensive end and sit at 12. The Eagles are at 15 and may find Coples too good to pass on even though they have more pressing needs. However, it is a real stretch to see Coples getting past the Bills or the Seahawks.

_____________________________________

I know people are skeptical regarding drafting him this year at #4, but do you think he has what it takes to be a GREAT RDE for Cleveland with the defensive line we already have in place?? I mean, if they did draft him and our front 4 is Sheard, Rubin, Taylor and Coples, who would you double team???

If his senior week was just a tease of what we may see out of him...his stock could rise again over the next 6-8 weeks with the combine and pro day.

I feel if he rips it up at the combine AND his pro day, H&H will definitely have to take a look at the possibility of drafting him at #4 overall.

Thoughts??

JE159 #659163 02/06/12 07:52 PM
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Vinny Curry >>

and u can get him in the 2nd round.


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JE159 #659164 02/06/12 08:01 PM
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He seems like a player who could be in play in that range of the draft. I know that Heckert has said that he doesn't like to take DE in the 1st round, because he feels that they can be had later in the draft. Who knows though, if he feels that Coples is a special talent, he might look that way.

He has said that he never drafted a DE over 250 when he was with the Eagles, yet Sheard was bigger than that IIRC.

If I had to guess on his mindset, I would look at what he has said in the past: (this was prior to last year's draft)

http://www.theclevelandfan.com/cleveland-browns/1-browns-archive/8023-the-best-player-available

But if you remain convinced that there is some value in trying to figure out if Heckert was really offering any clues as to the team's draft plans and assuming that his discussion about receivers and Bowers were some indication of his real thoughts, then perhaps the most meaningful statement he gave was with respect to how he believes teams are constructed.

"Quarterbacks are No. 1 and then, I think you go left tackle, defensive end, corners; I think those are the groups," Heckert said. "You can't hide corners; you can't hide left tackles and if you can't get to the quarterback, you're in trouble. That's just league-wide."

That too may be stating the obvious but on the other hand, understanding that philosophy is about the only way to understand why Heckert makes the decisions he does. The issue then is how exactly does Heckert execute on that philosophy and when. He tends to like undersized defensive ends which he thinks can be had later in the draft when other teams aren't looking. If that's the case, then it would hardly surprise if the Browns start off with another cornerback.


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YTownBrownsFan #659165 02/06/12 08:37 PM
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In 2011 he had 7.5 sacks. @ vs James Madison and 2 vs Duke. I discount these games because those 2 teams would have trouble beating most good high school teams.

In 9 other ACC games he had 3.5 sacks. And none against Missouri in the bowl game.

I cannot find a game by game breakdown of his 2010 season (which I would like to look at).

He looks the part but I don't like his failure to perform on the field. And I saw a couple of his games and didn't notice him getting double teamed excessively.


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Jester #659166 02/06/12 08:41 PM
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He scares me more than anyone in the draft (I guess Burfict scares me in a different way). I feel like like there is a 20% he is a top five defensive end and an 80% chance he is a bust.

It's hard to make an argument for a guy who has all the physical tools to dominate but doesn't dominate.

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The names I keep seeing as prospects for us to potentially draft as a RDE are (in no particular order):

Coples
Ingram
Mercilus
Curry
Perry (not so much of him)

I'll admit, I struggle with the understanding of how people analyze talent on both the offensive and defensive lines (like why some can play OG and not OT or someone would make a good LDE but not RDE), but do you see any of these guys as potential day 1 starters for us at RDE who can make a difference??

From what I understand...it seems as if the RDE is a very important piece of a defensive unit that we are missing at the moment. I see it everywhere that the 4 most important positions on the football field are QB, LT, RDE and CB. Can any of these guys be our starting RDE for years to come??

Jester #659168 02/06/12 08:46 PM
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I really can't recall watching him at all, so I have to go off of scouting reports and such when it comes to him. I don't think that I saw a single North Carolina game at all.

I am curious as to how Greg Romeus will do for the Saints. If he can come all the way back from injury then they got a steal with him. He was the guy who made Jabaal Sheard "the other guy" at Pitt before he got hurt.

I was kinda hoping that the browns would take a flyer on him in the 7th.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

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Jester #659169 02/06/12 08:51 PM
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Quote:

In 2011 he had 7.5 sacks. @ vs James Madison and 2 vs Duke. I discount these games because those 2 teams would have trouble beating most good high school teams.

In 9 other ACC games he had 3.5 sacks. And none against Missouri in the bowl game.

I cannot find a game by game breakdown of his 2010 season (which I would like to look at).

He looks the part but I don't like his failure to perform on the field. And I saw a couple of his games and didn't notice him getting double teamed excessively.




http://www.cfbstats.com/2010/player/457/1017324/tackle/gamelog.html

Just look at the different game logs and it will break down his stats in tackles, TFL, sacks, and misc def stats (passes broken up, FF, etc)

JE159 #659170 02/06/12 08:55 PM
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It seems like Ingram is more of a Justin Tuck guy. I don't know if he is on that level of talent, but he is a guy that you can lineup all over the place and he'll make an impact.

I think Perry will be the best of the group you mentioned when it is all said and done. I would not be surprised at all if he ends up being a top ten pick.

I know almost nothing about Mercilus and Curry.

Jester #659171 02/06/12 08:56 PM
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When you only beat the bottom feeder tackles something is wrong but he looks the part and he will be drafted way to early.

Upshaw and Ingram appear to be heading into the top 10 and then looks like we could have a couple DT's surprise and climb the boards as well. It is a long process and right now DE is the hot commodity. Perry is another that could be in that top group.

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Quote:

He scares me more than anyone in the draft (I guess Burfict scares me in a different way). I feel like like there is a 20% he is a top five defensive end and an 80% chance he is a bust.

It's hard to make an argument for a guy who has all the physical tools to dominate but doesn't dominate.




I agree ... Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.


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JE159 #659173 02/06/12 09:20 PM
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If you like undersized DE's this is a good class but if you want the Mario Williams type then Coples is the only one that really looks the part.

Perry, Ingram, Upshaw, Branch, Mercilus, Curry and Cam Johnson give us a few options for RDE. There will be a few like Massaquoi that will shoot up the board also. Now many of these will be drafted to be OLB in the 3-4 but not all

Mourgrym #659174 02/06/12 09:40 PM
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Quote:

When you only beat the bottom feeder tackles something is wrong but he looks the part and he will be drafted way to early.

Upshaw and Ingram appear to be heading into the top 10 and then looks like we could have a couple DT's surprise and climb the boards as well. It is a long process and right now DE is the hot commodity. Perry is another that could be in that top group.




So if all these defensive lineman guys move into the top 10...who do you see falling out, the offensive linemen??

JE159 #659175 02/06/12 09:46 PM
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I think Blackmon & Richardson are the two top guys that are likely to fall out of the top 10. Blackmon for his speed and Richardson for his position and the fact most teams are fairly set at RB.

JE159 #659176 02/06/12 09:58 PM
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Thanks for the link.

10 sacks - 3 vs Rutgers, one vs William and Mary

none vs LSU, Georgia Tech, East Carolina, Clemson, Miami (Fla) and Duke combined.

Maybe I am expecting too much but his production just doesn't impress me.


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Mourgrym #659177 02/06/12 10:40 PM
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I wouldn't compare Ingram to Tuck... He'll be Trent Cole if he's lucky in a 4-3. NFL tackles will lock him out. He'd be much better off with the steelers, Jets, or Chargers. You could see it with Cordy Glenn locking him down at SB practice and from what I hear mike Adams got him good, too.

I like Mercilus at 22 or 37, Upshaw at 22 (or with a #4 trade down if we miss out on Wright), Curry at 37, or Cam Johnson with our 3rd for DEs. Johnson was really impressive at the senior bowl. Maybe even trading back into the bottom of the 2nd to get him.

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YTownBrownsFan #659178 02/06/12 11:26 PM
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Quote:

If Heckert was really offering any clues as to the team's draft plans and assuming that his discussion about receivers and Bowers were some indication of his real thoughts, then perhaps the most meaningful statement he gave was with respect to how he believes teams are constructed.

"Quarterbacks are No. 1 and then, I think you go left tackle, defensive end, corners; I think those are the groups," Heckert said. "You can't hide corners; you can't hide left tackles and if you can't get to the quarterback, you're in trouble. That's just league-wide."





That's been the scouting mantra for the last 20 years. And I've been a proponent for 20 years.

That's the method for long term success. The fact that Heckert thinks the same has me giddy! I always liked that guy.

I know I've beaten a few drums here for the last decade but..

QB
LT
RDE
CB

That's how you build a team.

With that said I simply wouldn't consider Coples. A guy with all the talent in the world who doesn't dominate inferior competition? You can teach a lot of things in life. You can't teach motivation.


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YTownBrownsFan #659179 02/06/12 11:30 PM
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Quote:

He has said that he never drafted a DE over 250 when he was with the Eagles, yet Sheard was bigger than that IIRC.




I said this a few months ago but look for Bruce Irvin, WVU, from 37-70.

He's the prototype RDE Heckert pick. He was injured much of 2011 and may make it to our 3rd round pick.


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Do you think he's big enough to play 4-3 DE in the NFL?

I guess he could add some bulk, but would he lose some of his quickness. That's my question about Irvin. I like the guy, seen him play for WV a few times because I watch Big East Football. He stands out.

But I just don't know if he's big enough to be effective in the NFL as DE. He's much more of a 3-4 OLB to me. He even played 4-3 SSLB for WV


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Jester #659181 02/07/12 09:33 AM
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Quote:

Thanks for the link.

10 sacks - 3 vs Rutgers, one vs William and Mary

none vs LSU, Georgia Tech, East Carolina, Clemson, Miami (Fla) and Duke combined.

Maybe I am expecting too much but his production just doesn't impress me.



Yet in 2011 he had sacks against Virginia Tech, Clemson, East Carolina, and Miami.. Living here in Raleigh I still didn't watch much UNC football but I'll say that there are ways to be very disruptive without actually getting sacks..


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Heldawg #659182 02/09/12 04:33 PM
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Is right defensive end really that high a priority to warrant a draft pick anywhere in the 1st 4 rounds? Given, Somebody should be coming back from those who rotated into the defense last season. Benard missed most of the season, then you have, Jayme Mitchell, then the player who beat Mitchell for playing time.

1, 2, 3, or 4, top notch pass rush specialists worth drafting at RDE, that you won't find outside of round 1, if you can't get one of those you are just duplicating what you already have.
The team has bigger needs.


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THROW LONG #659183 02/09/12 04:35 PM
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RDE is our biggest need on defense and arguably one of our top 4 overall needs (along with QB, WR1, RT).


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no_logo_required #659184 02/09/12 04:40 PM
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How is that possible? DEs touch the ball 0 to 1 times per game.

clevesteve #659185 02/09/12 04:55 PM
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Quote:

How is that possible? DEs touch the ball 0 to 1 times per game.




you forget the NO game


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no_logo_required #659186 02/09/12 05:11 PM
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Quote:

RDE is our biggest need on defense and arguably one of our top 4 overall needs (along with QB, WR1, RT).




You may be exactly right, but , Wr was the biggest need on this team for 4 or 5 years, and Quarterback is clearly a problem now, they just drafted Sheard with one of the top 2 picks last year.
If we have to wait 4 years with the likes of only Little and Carlton (throw him off the team ) Mitchell to address the Wr need, they can wait 1 year without adressing defensive end.

I understand this is unpopular opinion and defenders are more necessary but look at it this way. In 2009 they threw off B Macdonald and Eric Wright off the team for questionable upgrades, well if Brandon Macdonald and Eric Wright were so bad with what they accomplished, ( they accomplished alot) that they needed upgraded, then
How do they explain the production they get from Rod Windsor and Carlton Mitchell, or even players like Norwood and in the past Steptoe. Their production was tiny and we're supposed to avoid that area again and wait? They have about 10 outside defenders anyway.


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Quote:

How is that possible? DEs touch the ball 0 to 1 times per game.




When you consider Defense ask yourself how often can this guy attack the opposing offensive ball carrier. As opposed to touches for an offensive player


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THROW LONG #659188 02/09/12 05:29 PM
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ok, first we have been drafting WRs. they may not be panning out but it's not like we have been ignoring the position.

we did wait 1 year without addressing RDE. we went 2011 without a real plan in place for it (other than hoping Jaymie Mitchell was that answer). that failed, we need to fix it.

now, maybe we find a stop-gap in FA. maybe we spend $$$ on Avril or Mario (doubt it). maybe we find someone good enough for now in round3 or later.

but, we can't go into 2012 with what we have on the roster now. that's my main point.


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RageDawg #659189 02/09/12 06:17 PM
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i was really just kidding. it was from a post about a week ago.

no_logo_required #659190 02/09/12 06:21 PM
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but, we can't go into 2012 with what we have on the roster now. that's my main point.




Does that count Bernard? He seems to be the forgotten guy...

He's basically only a situation passrusher though I guess...

Mario.


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ThatGuy #659191 02/09/12 06:50 PM
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yeah, i'm not counting on Benard to be our main starting RDE.


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I agree. And a pass rush like we have not had, that gets us off the field and gives us takeaways IS a huge concern. The field position changes and scoring opportunities, not thinking FGs!, would help us immeasurably. How often did that beat us? I think it has to be a second or third pick in terms of priority needs. Unless we can get some of this in FA and weed a few out or trade them for more picks, the other DE is crucial IMO to keep going forward.


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no_logo_required #659193 02/09/12 08:26 PM
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yeah, i'm not counting on Benard to be our main starting RDE.




me neither.. but he could do it. He's a lot better at LDE. Nice to have him for depth though.

RDE- Vinny Curry
LDE - Jabaal Sheard

backup - Marcus Benard


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clevesteve #659194 02/09/12 09:08 PM
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How is that possible? DEs touch the ball 0 to 1 times per game.




You tell'em Steve



A month ago


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Quote:

Quote:

yeah, i'm not counting on Benard to be our main starting RDE.




me neither.. but he could do it. He's a lot better at LDE. Nice to have him for depth though.

RDE- Vinny Curry
LDE - Jabaal Sheard

backup - Marcus Benard




I kinda like the sound of that.

But shiver me timbers if the thought of

Sheard, Taylor, Rubin and Williams doesn't that make you say Hmmm!

I would still like to add a younger experienced FA DT too, so that we can better rest Taylor and Rubin to keep them fresher.


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