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Holmgren has said that he was prepared to trade most of that years draft, plus maybe even dip into the following year for Bradford. It just wasn't enough for the Rams to trade back. (how ironic is that?)
Holmgren is Heckert's boss. If he says something happens, and he believes strongly enough that it is the right call, it will happen.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If I recall correctly, Holmy said that he did talk to them and was willing to trade quite a bit, but that what they were asking was 'too much' for us to part with at the time, and thus he couldn't allow us to trade so much. Which again tells me he does value the QB position and is willing to part with some picks, but at the same time, he values those picks a lot and chooses to keep them rather than overpay for an truly unknown quantity, that could cost further development of the team.
Heckert does most of the negotiating of the picks for trades, and gets approval or denial, of how much he can offer. Just like in most jobs where the boss has final say on bigger issues, but the worker bee (Heckert) has enough authority to get it set up right until final approval (or denial).
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Actually, Holmgren said something like: They weren't willing to part with the pick under any circumstances, and it was the right choice. I wouldn't have either. ........ or words to that effect. That's not a direct quote, but it's damn close.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
How many guys has Holmgren now tried to trade up for?
Since he's been with the Browns, 1. he confirmed that they tried to see if they could go up to get Bradford.
heckert confirmed that in an article you posted from the Canton Rep.
Oddly enough, we drafted Colt McCoy that year in the 3rd round..... so that move up had NOTHING to do wtih McCoy. unless of course you wanna sit there and tell me that the plan was to move up to get Bradford then still draft mcCoy in the 3rd?
The only comments from the browns about going up to get RG3 was from Hecket (again from the article YOU posted from the Canton Rep) and in the article, he said (paraphrasing a little here) That's Crazy..
Everything else stems from a writer for a St. Louis paper that was then quoted by Adam Shefter and then every other reporter on the planet.
So,, no confirmation of anything with the Rams this year.. Nothing.. Just a whole lotta talk and it's ALL by the media....
I still think the Rams Jobbed the Skins on that deal by making them think someone else was bidding against them..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We were involved....word would get out if they were just saying so and so was offering this.
It's simple ethics.....you don't "job" people like that. I have no doubt we made a offer just short of the Skins offer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If we hadn't made an offer, and we were 100% committed to Colt McCoy, then the team would definitely have come out and said "We're in Colt's corner, and we had no discussions to acquire the #2 pick" ....... or "Teams call us all the time, and a team did call us, but there really wasn't any interest on our part at that time", or something like that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No doubt. Colt can't be feeling all that great about a offer being made. If it wasn't true we would have been all over the press denying any offer was made.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't think he needs to feel that bad about this. Griffin is a special player and teams will always try to improve talent levels, especially at the QB position.
Now, if they end up taking Tannehill (or any other QB) in the first round, he'd better polish up his resume.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I think H&H decided to take a flyer (or a chance) with Colt for a 3rd after the swing and miss on Bradford. I don't think they'll do that again with Tannehill because he will cost to much... more likely Weeden in the 3rd (if any QB this draft). Personally, I'd be okay with that.
I think we'll definitely make a run at Flynn first.
I'd also be very happy to just build the talent at other positions and stick with McCoy. I'm nowhere near convinced he can't get it done.
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Quote:
We were involved....word would get out if they were just saying so and so was offering this.
It's simple ethics.....you don't "job" people like that. I have no doubt we made a offer just short of the Skins offer.
This all happened Friday.. today is sunday.. it wouldn't get out that fast. holmgren didn't let the cat out of the bag for days on the Bradford thing. And of course, that was After the Draft.. not after the trade was made.. big difference..
I also wouldn't discount the relationshiips that Shurmur has with the Rams playing into this.
Now ask me if the Browns discussed an offer? I'm gonna say they'd have been nuts not to.. so I buy that. But we had better ammunition to move up.. we could have given them the same thing the Skins did and at least this year, the picks would have been better.
That's why I say,, we didn't offer anything close to what the Skins did (if we offered anything)..
I'm sure they "Jobbed" the skins.. it happens all the time.. Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys jobbed the vikings.., I don't even want to get into how badly the Saints got jobbed for Ricky Williams..
I also wouldn't be at all suprised to someday find that the Rams helped build the hype for RG3 in order to increase the value of thier pick
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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How many guys has Holmgren now tried to trade up for?
YT...so you are saying Holmgren should have given up 4 first round picks for RGIII?
I don't know that anyone said he would cost 4 first round picks. Can you show me where it has been said that this is what it would have cost us?
Holmgren has been here for 3 (counting this year) drafts. In 2 of them, he has tried desperately to trade up for a QB. That should tell everyone paying attention how much he values the position.
YT...the deal on the table that the Rams took was the Redskins...
...1st this year
...1st rounder in 2013
...1st rounder in 2014
...#39 2nd round pick this year...
All that to move into the Rams #2 spot...
YT...what did you want the Browns to do...give up 4 first rounders?
Stop taking shots at the front office just because Dan Snyder went "nuts" to secure the #2 draft slot.
The Browns front office did the right thing, not trying to push the bidding any higher, but you, looking for someone to blame, just won't admit they did the right thing.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Look man.....If Holmgren and Heck didn't make a solid sound offer, and saw their names being brought in to the discussion, and they didn't say anything, they don't have a hair on their ass.
You don't allow some other team to bring you in to unethical conduct....well, I don't. You, I hope not and deep down, doubt. Homie and Heck, I doubt it. They aren't going to allow the Rams to bring us in to some fantasy bidding.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We didn't have to offer more 1st round picks, because 2 of the 3 1st round picks we would have offered would already have been better than the ones the skins offered...
Where the deal as reported broke down on our side, is that we possibly were'nt willing to go to 3 firsts, and a 2nd...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We weren't willing to go to a 2nd first.
Swapping picks is swapping picks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I thought I read somewhere that we offerend 2 1st a 3rd and were possibly willing to go to a 2nd, and thought we had the deal done, then Washington swooped in with 3 1sts...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
we had better ammunition to move up
Depends on what is considered "better". St. Louis very well may have wanted to have two first round picks in each of the next three drafts, instead of having three picks this year, two next year, and only one (their own) in 2014.
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At some point in time, you put a max. "bid" out.
Ever been to an auction? In your head, you know the max you'll pay for something. When you hit the max - you stop. At least I do.
Ever been to a casino? You take in the most money you are willing to part with. If that money is gone in 15 minutes - or in 5 hours, the smart person walks away.
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Hall of Famer
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YT...what did you want the Browns to do...give up 4 first rounders?
If we'd have offered our two 1st round this year and one 1st round next year along with our #37 this year then we would have won the bid. No need to offer a 4th first rounder.
I'm glad we didn't do it. Right now I'm dying for a milkshake but I'll be damned if I'll pay $25 for one.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I'll try to stay positive. I'm glad the FO was willing to go up and get a possible franchise QB. But, I'm more glad that it didn't work out. JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Look man.....If Holmgren and Heck didn't make a solid sound offer, and saw their names being brought in to the discussion, and they didn't say anything, they don't have a hair on their ass.
this is where you need to pay better attention. Heckert did respond to all the nonsense.. What's funny, it's in an article that Ytown posted... '
Heckert said, and I'm kinda paraphrasing, that all the talk of what the Browns offered "is crazy"..
But it's something that Ytown and you and a few others don't want to believe so you gloss over it.
the answers are there,, you just have put aside your own beliefs and read the damn things..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, maybe when Heckert said that, nothing had happened. Maybe he thought that no trade would happen so soon. But, as the days passed, it really seemed that the trade WOULD happen, so we made an offer then.
It's possible.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Well, maybe when Heckert said that, nothing had happened. Maybe he thought that no trade would happen so soon. But, as the days passed, it really seemed that the trade WOULD happen, so we made an offer then.
It's possible.
He said it on thursday
More importantly, he was talking about all the chatter about what the browns were offering and he called that talk "CRAZY"
Let me make it clearer,, HE CALLED IT CRAZY. I took that to mean, we weren't offering what was being reported.. But those that wanted RG3 won't see it that way.. it won't support thier thinking so there you have it.
how much clearer can it be.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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Look man.....If Holmgren and Heck didn't make a solid sound offer, and saw their names being brought in to the discussion, and they didn't say anything, they don't have a hair on their ass.
this is where you need to pay better attention. Heckert did respond to all the nonsense.. What's funny, it's in an article that Ytown posted... '
Heckert said, and I'm kinda paraphrasing, that all the talk of what the Browns offered "is crazy"..
But it's something that Ytown and you and a few others don't want to believe so you gloss over it.
Because if I'm the Browns FO, and there are COUNTLESS reports of us offering multiple high draft selections in a bidding war with a team that like you claim aren't true...
I'm totally fine with being used as trade bait, and at no point come out and say it's not true...
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the answers are there,, you just have put aside your own beliefs and read the damn things..
There are countless reports, some sighting "Browns sources" claiming we we're offering 2-3 first round picks +
So maybe you should put yours aside and actually pay attention to whats going on...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Maybe the redskins had to give up that much to move up because St Louis really didn't want to go all the way down to 6. Maybe they offered a whole lot more than us, and the difference was 't really just a 2nd round pick.
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Quote:
We didn't have to offer more 1st round picks, because 2 of the 3 1st round picks we would have offered would already have been better than the ones the skins offered...
Where the deal as reported broke down on our side, is that we possibly were'nt willing to go to 3 firsts, and a 2nd...
OSU...you are simply guessing at what we may have offered or if we even made an offer.
While I question whether what you saying is anywhere close to reality, I'll play the game with you...
So the Browns trade
...1st rounder #4 in 2012
...1st rounder #22 in 2012
...1st rounder in 2013
...and our #37 in 2012
This is the deal the Rams accepted from the Redskins...
...1st this year
...1st rounder in 2013
...1st rounder in 2014
...#39 2nd round pick this year...
Yep, our deal beats the Redskins...BUT WAIT...WHAT IS THIS???
DAN SNYDER IS OFFERRING ....
...1st this year
...1st rounder in 2013
...1st rounder in 2014
...#39 2nd round pick this year...
...AND A 1ST ROUNDER IN 2015...
OSU...who wins now?...and what would you have the Browns do now?
Some day you might get it...Dan Snyder was not going to be outbid, regardless.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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So I can base my statements off of countless reports...
But you can make a broad generalization...
And I'm the one that doesn't get it?
*notices font color*
...Oh silly me...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c
I'll be glad when we sign an FA in the next few days or so (if we do) and Heckert is in front of a podium with reporters on the other side. He'll get hammered with questions about our trade offer and then maybe some of this will come to light.
#GMSTRONG
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Ok, so he said it on Thursday. The trade happened Friday. It's possible that my scenario still happened.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Because if I'm the Browns FO, and there are COUNTLESS reports of us offering multiple high draft selections in a bidding war with a team that like you claim aren't true...
See, that right there is what's wrong around here.. I've said about a million times that they may have,, what I'm looking for is verification from something other than reports from a reporter using another reporter as a source who used another reporter as source that used another reporter as a source and so on and so on.
But for some reason,, what you got out of it is that I "claim it's not true"
Essentially, Heckert said it was Crazy.. HE said it,, I didn't. what part of that don't you get.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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How about the fact that they haven't come out since the trade was announced, and it was announced they were doing it, and said that it's not true?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
At some point in time, you put a max. "bid" out.
Ever been to an auction? In your head, you know the max you'll pay for something. When you hit the max - you stop. At least I do.
Ever been to a casino? You take in the most money you are willing to part with. If that money is gone in 15 minutes - or in 5 hours, the smart person walks away.
I have been in many casinos. I have probably been to Las Vegas at least 40-50 times, so I agree with that.
I just know you fold early or if all in, you play it to the end.
But your auction analogy is better...you do set a limit. It's just that in this case the gambling analogy is more apropos.....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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How about the fact that they haven't come out since the trade was announced, and it was announced they were doing it, and said that it's not true?
it was addressed prior to the trade by heckert that talk of what the Browns were offering was "CRAZY" what else needs said?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ok, let's say on Thursday that Heckert says that trade talks are "crazy." At that time, he hadn't really given it a lot of thought.
Well, as Thursday night and Friday morning come along, he gets wind that there are serious discussions going on between the Redskins and the Rams. The FO says "crap, we really didn't expect this to get done this soon!"
So, they contact the Rams and start making offers. The Rams listen and like what they're hearing. But, since they're dealing with Dan Snyder, they call him, up the price, and the 'Skins agree. The Rams take it.
That at least sounds plausible, doesn't it?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Ok, let's say on Thursday that Heckert says that trade talks are "crazy." At that time, he hadn't really given it a lot of thought.
Well, as Thursday night and Friday morning come along, he gets wind that there are serious discussions going on between the Redskins and the Rams. The FO says "crap, we really didn't expect this to get done this soon!"
So, they contact the Rams and start making offers. The Rams listen and like what they're hearing. But, since they're dealing with Dan Snyder, they call him, up the price, and the 'Skins agree. The Rams take it.
That at least sounds plausible, doesn't it?
Apparently not, because Heckert said "Crazy" at some point during the passed week, which means HE'S NEVER GOING TO MAKE A TRADE EVER AGAIN...
Or something...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Ok, let's say on Thursday that Heckert says that trade talks are "crazy." At that time, he hadn't really given it a lot of thought.
He didn't say trade talks were crazy, he said the reports of what the browns were offering was crazy.. that says that something was offered, but all this talk of us offering three 1st rounders sounds like it's, well,, Crazy
Well, as Thursday night and Friday morning come along, he gets wind that there are serious discussions going on between the Redskins and the Rams. The FO says "crap, we really didn't expect this to get done this soon!"
So, they contact the Rams and start making offers. The Rams listen and like what they're hearing. But, since they're dealing with Dan Snyder, they call him, up the price, and the 'Skins agree. The Rams take it.
That at least sounds plausible, doesn't it?
Sure,, Anything is possible.. But that's not what was reported.. in fact, most all of the reports were PRIOR to the trade..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok, let's say on Thursday that Heckert says that trade talks are "crazy." At that time, he hadn't really given it a lot of thought.
Well, as Thursday night and Friday morning come along, he gets wind that there are serious discussions going on between the Redskins and the Rams. The FO says "crap, we really didn't expect this to get done this soon!"
So, they contact the Rams and start making offers. The Rams listen and like what they're hearing. But, since they're dealing with Dan Snyder, they call him, up the price, and the 'Skins agree. The Rams take it.
That at least sounds plausible, doesn't it?
Apparently not, because Heckert said "Crazy" at some point during the passed week, which means HE'S NEVER GOING TO MAKE A TRADE EVER AGAIN...
Or something...
Why is it when you show someone that there isn't a good reason for thier thinking, the only retort is to make it sound stupid?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Cleveland Browns lose bid for No. 2 draft spot to Washington RedskinsThis article is by Mary Kay Cabot. She sights Adam Schefter's report, who, in his report, cited Cleveland Brown sources.Quote:
Seperately, Peter King: "Cleveland was in it, but didn't want to give three ones and a 2. Miami was in it, but couldn't go nuts w/Manning still in play."
It's almost like, we CHANGED OUR MINDS on using the #22...
Quote:
Schefter, who cited a Cleveland source early in his story, said the Browns thought they'd be able to pull off the deal, but were informed the Redskins landed the choice spot instead. The Browns were even prepared to throw in their second-round pick this year, Schefter said.
That's the #4, #22, and our 2nd this year...
Quote:
The Browns declined to comment on their involvment in the deal on Saturday.
Why not just say it's all .."crazy" ?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
I know you will ignore this,but I'm going to try.
I n your crazy scenario,Snyder was bidding against.....no one.So why all the picks then?
You are smart enough to know there was bidding war going on between us and them.
Heckert was correct,what Snyder was forced to give up truely is crazy.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
This still the cuts thread? Take it to the RGIII thread. 
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cuts
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