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This still the cuts thread?
Take it to the RGIII thread. 
OK. How about cutting Heckert for bungling the negotiations?? 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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This still the cuts thread?
Take it to the RGIII thread.
OK. How about cutting Heckert for bungling the negotiations??
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I know you will ignore this,but I'm going to try.
I n your crazy scenario,Snyder was bidding against.....no one.So why all the picks then?
You are smart enough to know there was bidding war going on between us and them.
Heckert was correct,what Snyder was forced to give up truely is crazy.
I'm not ignoring it.. But I gotta correct you... You call it MY Crazy scenario,, it's not,, It's Heckerts..... I'm smart enough to read that he said it,,,, I just repeated it..
What's funny is,, you, like others are doing the same thing., you know damn well that Heckert said it, but by the time it comes back around, because I repeated it, it's MY scenario..
That's pretty funny really..
What's funnier is this,, I never said they Didn't throw a bid together.. I did say that we have a ton of conflicting reports from suspicious sources..
And even funnier,, when heckert said reports of what they offered were crazy, I took that to mean that they did indeed offer something... But some how
that's been missed in these rants by people beating on me because I wanted to have more verification than one reporter using another reporter as a source..
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Heckert was correct,what Snyder was forced to give up truely is crazy.
That's not what Heckert said,, go check your facts again.... He said reports of what the Browns were offering were "crazy"
For the record however,, yeah,, Snyder is crazy for giving up that much..
#GMSTRONG
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I am not real sure what you keep pounding your keyboard about. I mean you keep citing the article that came out before the trade that showed Heckert calling the trade terms "crazy", and others show the report from Adam S. saying he heard the terms we offered from "cleveland sources".
I don't think anyone is saying they know for sure that we offered that and even you acknowledge that we were "probably" making some kind of offer. So what is the big deal?
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You don't get to 25k posts by not pounding the keyboard. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I am not real sure what you keep pounding your keyboard about. I mean you keep citing the article that came out before the trade that showed Heckert calling the trade terms "crazy", and others show the report from Adam S. saying he heard the terms we offered from "cleveland sources".
I don't think anyone is saying they know for sure that we offered that and even you acknowledge that we were "probably" making some kind of offer. So what is the big deal?
To be honest, I"m not really sure.. I made a few innocent comments about where this stuff comes from and that it may not be reliable and the damn thing steamrolled... It's hard to figure how people can use unconfirmed information to make an argument.. which by the way is/was my point..
It's nutty actually. But at this point, I'm not sure it even matters..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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You don't get to 25k posts by not pounding the keyboard.
Joe Thomas #73
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82..._headline_stackLions' Suh, Stafford, Burleson restructure contracts The Detroit Lions have gotten a "significant" amount of salary cap relief before Tuesday's start of free agency, as defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh, quarterback Matthew Stafford and wideout Nate Burleson all reportedly have agreed to restructure their respective contracts. Suh has restructured the final three years of his contract, Suh's agent told Fox Sports Detroit on Monday , who added that the new deal already has been reached. "We should be getting the paperwork in today," Rosey Barnes said. "It’s quite a bit. It’s a significant amount." Barnes also said that no new years were added to Suh's deal, which called for the defensive tackle to make $10.8 million in base salary in 2012. Stafford and Burelson's new deals reportedly will save the Lions approximately $10 million in cap space, a league source told the Lions' official website.
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How many guys has Holmgren now tried to trade up for?
Since he's been with the Browns, 1. he confirmed that they tried to see if they could go up to get Bradford.
heckert confirmed that in an article you posted from the Canton Rep.
Oddly enough, we drafted Colt McCoy that year in the 3rd round..... so that move up had NOTHING to do wtih McCoy. unless of course you wanna sit there and tell me that the plan was to move up to get Bradford then still draft mcCoy in the 3rd?
The only comments from the browns about going up to get RG3 was from Hecket (again from the article YOU posted from the Canton Rep) and in the article, he said (paraphrasing a little here) That's Crazy..
Everything else stems from a writer for a St. Louis paper that was then quoted by Adam Shefter and then every other reporter on the planet.
So,, no confirmation of anything with the Rams this year.. Nothing.. Just a whole lotta talk and it's ALL by the media....
I still think the Rams Jobbed the Skins on that deal by making them think someone else was bidding against them..
Maybe I misinterpreted your comments,but,it seems to me that you didn't believe the Browns made an offer.
Then later on,you believed they made a token offer,then it went to,yes they made a decent offer but it's unconfirmed how much.
Common sense will lead us to believe the Browns put a major offer on the table,with more than 1 first round pick.Exactly what,we'll probably never know.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Honestly, I don't know what kinda of an offer they made.. if any (although given Heckerts wording, I'm thinking they did,, just don't know how much)
What I AM saying is that there was a confirmation after a move for Bradford was made, (by holmgren) but the only thing we've heard from anyone directly associated with the browns this time was that all the rumors about what they've offered is "crazy"!
I'll bet you that just like we didn't get the exact offer made to the Rams for Bradford, we'll never actually know what this offer was either. But Heckert seems to be saying that all the rumors are untrue or exaggerated..
It's one of those things where you gotta take it for what it's worth.
Don't confuse the two issues..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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OK. How about cutting Heckert for bungling the negotiations?
Peen, we did not bungle anything. It is quite clear that we really were not going to offer the farm for him. All you have to do is look at heck's statements. I don't think we are sold on him. We had the ammo, We could have had him if we thought he was all that. He's not all that, so were going to build with draft picks instead of giving them all away, not a bad thing.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Cleveland Browns RT Tony Pashos upset after being told the Browns are releasing him, played last year on ruptured tendon Published: Monday, March 12, 2012, 4:05 PM Updated: Monday, March 12, 2012, 4:41 PM By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer Browns right tackle Tony Pashos, who will be released by the Browns, is upset about it because he gutted it out on a ruptured tendon in his foot last season. CLEVELAND -- Browns starting right tackle Tony Pashos is "really upset'' about being released by the Browns after he played all last season on a ruptured tendon in his left foot that required surgery, his agent Rick Smith said today. The Browns will release Pashos, who underwent the surgery last Tuesday, on the basis that he failed his physical, Smith said. The move is expected to by made by Tuesday, when free agency begins. Pashos, who was set to make $3.35 million in 2012, will receive $1 million for injury protection per the collective bargaining agreement. "Tony feels like he had the team's back last season,'' said Smith. "He wishes the team had his back now.'' The Browns declined to comment through team spokesman Neal Gulkis. Smith explained that Pashos, 31, completely ruptured the peroneus longus tendon in his left foot during the final preseason game, but that the peroneus brevis tendon remained intact. Because the one tendon was intact, Pashos was told he could either have the surgery right away, or "basically gut through it'' and repair it after the season, Smith said. He was told the rehab would take about 9-10 months. "Because the team lacked depth on the offensive line, especially at right tackle, Tony wanted to help the team,'' said Smith. "He knew what he was doing.'' Pashos sat out the first three regular season games, and then returned on the injured tendon. "But in order to be able to do that, he had to be given an enormous amount of pain pills and shots,'' said Smith. "It was an enormous amount, to the point where at Christmas, he went into the hospital with three ulcers from the pain medication. You can see that he missed the final regular season game, because he was in the hospital with the ulcers.'' Smith stressed that Browns head trainer Joe Sheehan had Pashos' back throughout the season. "Joe told Tony 'at any point, if you want to shut this down, I'll go upstairs and shut this down for you,''' said Smith. "Joe was real good to Tony. But Tony wanted to continue to try to help the team.'' Smith said Pashos had to wait until last Tuesday to have the surgery because of the ulcers. "While Tony was in the hospital, I got the call from the Browns giving me the heads up that they were releasing him,'' said Smith. "When Tony called the Browns, they told him he was a warrior. "But he's not a warrior. He's somebody's son, somebody's husband, somebody's father. He's a guy trying to support his family.'' Smith said Pashos, who's heading into his 10th season, will be out for eight or nine months, which means he'll miss most or all of next season. "He's going to do whatever it takes (to play again), but the last film on him is him playing half speed,'' said Smith. He said Pashos never used the foot as an excuse last season, even though he occasionally took some heat for his performance. "He didn't hide behind the injury,'' said Smith. "You never heard a word out of him all year.'' He said the Browns could've placed Pashos on the physically unable to perform list and let him rehab with the Browns, or they could've reduced his salary. As it is, the Browns will save about $2 million on the salary cap, which will put them about $19.4 million under the cap heading into free agency. "Tony really bought into what the Browns were selling,'' said Smith. "Now he's off on his own.'' Pashos signed with the Browns as a free agent in 2010, earning $4 million in salary and bonuses his first year and $2.2 million in 2011. He played in only six games in 2010 because of an ankle injury that landed him on injured reserve. © 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_browns_rt_tony_pasho.htmlDidn't see this posted so here ya go
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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well, Tony may have played hurt last year, but if he didn't play, then we would have cut him anyway since he would have missed a majority of the last 2 seasons.
as it stands, he gets that $1mil injury protection buyout rather than nothing (if he would have been recovered by now).
#gmstrong
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
Well, his agent said that it was becasue Pashos wanted to help the team... FWIW...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sounds like a guy who wasn't ready for his career to end. The Browns stuck by you while you were riding a bike everyday for two years during practice and gave them 6 out of 16 games in 2010. You are 31, that money will be used on a valuable free agent acquisition, and they are headed in a different and hopefully more stable, younger and productive direction.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
X 500.
Hurt? Need surgery? Season was over a long time ago.
And the "pain med's gave me an ulcer so I had to wait" crap doesn't cut it with me. If he was in pain then, he was in pain now.
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
X 500.
Hurt? Need surgery? Season was over a long time ago.
And the "pain med's gave me an ulcer so I had to wait" crap doesn't cut it with me. If he was in pain then, he was in pain now.
Because they caught onto his M.O., Go into training camp hurt or rehabbing and his personal relationship with a Stationary bike was Rogersesque.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
Well, his agent said that it was becasue Pashos wanted to help the team... FWIW...
I mean right following the 2011 season. The season has been over since January. It's March. He could have had the surgery done, and 2 months of rehab under his belt by now. He could have been ready to go in September/October if he would have had the surgery done as soon as the season ended.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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and the Browns continual search for a RT continues...much like for a number WR,RDE, and sideline to sideline OLB
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and the Browns continual search for a RT continues...much like for a number WR,RDE, and sideline to sideline OLB
hey, I'm happy that we don't even have the fallback option of doing nothing at RT now.
#gmstrong
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
Well, his agent said that it was becasue Pashos wanted to help the team... FWIW...
I mean right following the 2011 season. The season has been over since January. It's March. He could have had the surgery done, and 2 months of rehab under his belt by now. He could have been ready to go in September/October if he would have had the surgery done as soon as the season ended.
Didn't the article say he hurt his tendon during the last preseason game in August of 2011? maybe not..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Smith said Pashos had to wait until last Tuesday to have the surgery because of the ulcers.
I gather from this, his doctors told him they had to clear up the ulcers before any surgery could take place, hence the wait.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Have to wonder why he didn't have the surgery immediately after the season. He could have been 3 months into his rehab by now if he had.
Nothing to wonder about, it's in the article: "Smith said Pashos had to wait until last Tuesday to have the surgery because of the ulcers."
I'm certainly not a doctor, but I can quite easily see where a surgeon would want to avoid doing any sort of non-required procedure on a patient with internal bleeding due to abuse of pain meds.
I don't see it as a tough-guy issue like y'all are trying to paint it as... the way I see it, it's simply a common-sense medical precaution.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yea, the answer is right there in the article, and people still want to turn it into something its not.
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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Have to admit it knocks my opinion of our front office down a notch if true. 
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Have to admit it knocks my opinion of our front office down a notch if true.
If what's true?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I swear, it's never cut and dry w/ us . . .  Always w/ the drama . . . I guess this is still the cuts form around the league thread . . . Levi Brown out in Arizona Raiders to release Kevin Boss
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That they straight cut the guy who played through all of 2011 on a gimp foot. Waiting until he has the surgery to give him the boot.
It doesn't send the right message to the locker room that's for sure.
Why not negotiate a salary reduction?
Seems to me that they used him up and spit him out
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because he was never very good and never healthy?
Guys get cut for those things all the time.
If it was just an injury thing, they would have cut D'Qwell Jackson last year.
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Not a classy way to do it. I think maybe the plan was to reduce him and pay him, but after the bungled attempt at RGIII, the front office knows they might need to use that cash to help bring in a couple of players.
They have to clean the egg off their face one way or another.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not a classy way to do it. I think maybe the plan was to reduce him and pay him, but after the bungled attempt at RGIII, the front office knows they might need to use that cash to help bring in a couple of players.
They have to clean the egg off their face one way or another.
if that was the plan (keeping Pashos), then I'm even happier to have missed out on overpaying for RGIII
#gmstrong
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Well, you do have a point.
Heckert doesn't impress me with his ability to spot offensive line talent.
I am sure the releasing of Pashos will give him another chance to bring in some clod who can't move.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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yeah, there aren't many OT FAs worth signing in any year. I'm hoping that we use a decently high draft pick to fix the problem.
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j/c
He is going to be out 8 or 9 months. That essentially is the 2012 season.
So what were the browns supposed to do??? Keep an over rated RT on salary, and hope that his foot reconstruction allows him to return to football??? There is probably more to this story, whatever surgical reconstruction was done is most likely going to put his career in jeopardy. Unfortunately, its a business, and the smart thing for the browns to do was move on. I don't really see how the browns can be faulted in this, or made out to be the bad guy....
and one more thing, its simply amaizing how everything has to be, one way or another, about RGiii-- its nauseating.
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In any event, while I never like to see guys get cut, I don't feel bad for Pashos. I appreciate that he played hurt, but I don't see where that requires the team to keep him on the payroll? For the people who are going to bash this FO no matter what, this is the FO's fault. For the people who are always going to support the FO, then this is Pasho's "fault". IMO, Pashos was an injury liability at worst and a "maybe average" RT at best.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Not a classy way to do it. I think maybe the plan was to reduce him and pay him, but after the bungled attempt at RGIII, the front office knows they might need to use that cash to help bring in a couple of players.
They have to clean the egg off their face one way or another.
I think you have had one to many adult beverages of choice.
It's a business ... Players are cut all the time. If you ask me he should have been cut last year and we would not have had to depend/counted on him in the first place.
Now we have to go after a RT as nologo said.
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Hey Tony...I want to thank you for everything you have done while with the Browns. Playing injured last season showed your toughness and determination to do all you could to help the team.
Thanks again and good luck...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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That they straight cut the guy who played through all of 2011 on a gimp foot. Waiting until he has the surgery to give him the boot.
It doesn't send the right message to the locker room that's for sure.
Why not negotiate a salary reduction?
Seems to me that they used him up and spit him out
The guy was injured all the time.
He was injured both seasons here and at least 2 seasons in SanFran before he got here.
When he came here, he knew this was him last shot at showing he could stay healthy and his body just couldn't take anymore.
He may have had the will, but no longer had the ability to continue.
Put him in a blue or white collar job and his ass would have been fired long ago. Most companies will stick with an employee who has to take medical leave for a year, maybe 2, but 4? They would be told to go for disability and all ties would be severed. If that had been ANY of us in a "real" job we'd be on social security by now an no one would be trying to drum up sympathy for us.
Tony and his agent want to drum up publicity so some sucker will give him a final payday before he calls it quites.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,881
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,881 |
Quote:
That they straight cut the guy who played through all of 2011 on a gimp foot. Waiting until he has the surgery to give him the boot.
It doesn't send the right message to the locker room that's for sure.
Why not negotiate a salary reduction?
Seems to me that they used him up and spit him out
Did he take a pay cut when he was injured and couldn't play for us? nope..
It's a two way street as far as I'm concerned,, if he was the kinda guy that says,, let's put it in the contract, if I get injured and can't play, you only gotta pay me half,,,,, then yeah,, But you know that's not gonna happen..
it's a business, the players know it, the teams know it and the agents know it.. I don't think any of the negative comments are from Pashos,, unless I misread it, the comments are only coming from the agent,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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