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Gil Brandt thinks Browns can win with Colt McCoy
http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x1341769442/Gil-Brandt-thinks-Browns-can-win-with-Colt-McCoy?zc_p=1

Personnel guru Gil Brandt thinks Colt McCoy has the horsepower to pull the Browns out of the abyss.

“I’m a Colt McCoy guy,” says Brandt, a former Cowboys architect who for years has been the most recognizable analyst at the NFL Combine. “I think he could run that offense, providing they get enough players around him.

“I just know his background. I know him very well. The guy has leadership qualities. I think you can win with him.”

Brandt made the rounds at the Super Bowl and will be right back in Indianapolis for the Combine, Feb. 22-28 in Lucas Oil Stadium.

The Browns have the biggest stash of high picks, at No. 4, No. 22 and No. 37 overall. One of the biggest curiosities of the draft is whether a team aiming for Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffin III as its next quarterback would have to trade up to get him.

“I don’t know if you want to go up to No. 2,” said Brandt, whose voice is a fixture on SIRIUS radio. “I don’t even know if you could get to No. 2 with the Browns’ two firsts and throw in a second.”

Sounds expensive.

“It really is,” Brandt said.

Indianapolis is expected to spend the No. 1 pick on Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck, even though Colts owner Jim Irsay is making some noise about Griffin.

Brandt likes Griffin, but he seems to think Ryan Tannehill of Texas A&M might be as good an NFL quarterback.

“I really like Tannehill,” Brandt said. “I have a feel for Tannehill. I think he’s going to be pretty good.”

But ...

“You have to ask, if you’re the Browns, are Tannehill or Griffin going to be better for us than Colt?” Brandt said.

Part of the question for Brandt is the price of spending multiple picks to get a quarterback when a good prospect is already on the team, and those picks could be better spent on beefing up other positions.

“That’s the way I would look at it,” Brandt said.

He assumes President Mike Holmgren will lead the Browns along an intelligent path at the Combine and through the draft.

“I think Mike could take chicken manure and make chicken salad,” Brandt said. “He is really good. He’s also pretty good at evaluating quarterbacks.”

Holmgren weighed in lightly this week on McCoy during the team’s in-house radio show. He said McCoy has “no residual effects” from the James Harrison hit that knocked him out of the last three games.

“I know — I KNOW — no one will work harder this offseason than Colt McCoy,” Holmgren said. “I’m happy we got through all that (concussion ordeal), and he’s fine.”

Brandt rates Oklahoma State’s Justin Blackmon as the third-best player in the draft but does not advocate spending the No. 4 pick on any wide receiver.

“They need a running back,” he said.

The one he likes best is Trent Richardson of national champion Alabama.

“I think Richardson is really great,” Brandt said. “If I’m them, and if Richardson checked out, I probably would move down if I wanted to draft him. He probably would help ’em as much as anybody.

“I also think the back from Miami, (Lamar) Miller, is pretty good, if his shoulder is OK.”

Brandt admits Blackmon is a tempting target and that he is intrigued to see how high he will go.

“I think it all depends on how fast he runs,” Brandt said. “He’s a lot like Michael Irvin. He’s real strong. He’ll catch that slant.”

But ...

“With wide receivers, you’re always going to find one,” Brandt said. “It’s no longer the guy that can run the fastest. It’s the guy that’s gonna catch it coming across the middle.

“There’s a lot of wide receivers every year. Last year, (Doug) Baldwin from Stanford was undrafted. He led the Seahawks in catches and yardage.”

Victor Cruz, undrafted in 2010, racked up 1,536 receiving yards for the eventual Super Bowl champion Giants during the 2011 regular season.

Meanwhile, Brandt thinks the Browns already signed some important help for their offense in Brad Childress.

“I think the new coordinator will help them a lot,” Brandt said. “That’s a good pickup for them.”

It's going to be a difficult decision for sure.

I really like Colt and think he can win too.. but the offense would almost have to be mistake free. There are certain throws he can make.. and some that he can't. He needs better pocket awareness as well.

I want Griffin.. but I would not be upset if a team jumped ahead of us to grab him.

No kidding about being tough. I find myself swaying all over the board on what would be best.

I am now back to keeping the picks and throwing a ton at Flynn.

I'd then trade down out of 4 to whoever has the hots for Blackmon(I don't think he is the best receiver), and then target Richardson and Sanu in round 1.

Wow, I disagree with Brandt on just about everything he said. That's pretty amazing.

general reply

lol...one day you guys will all realize that we're not doing it the way all the past failed regimes did stuff.

I highly doubt colt doesn't get another year. Why?

Because MH basically said as much....over and over.

He's basically said...

2 years playing in the same offense with the same OC and Head coach. Then you know enough to decide if you should continue with him, or move on.

We're building thru the draft people. We are going to pick players and develop them. They are going to gain experience...get stronger...smarter.

That's when you will see what they actually are capable of.

I get it....we're all tired of losing...we want to win. Changing players constantly...blowing up systems DOESN'T WORK!

Maybe.....just maybe....if you stick to an actual plan...and let it come into being...then we will actually start winning consistently.

Is colt gonna pan out? Heck if i know. I'll tell you what i do know. This whole team needs some time. Colt included.

I have not heard one statement from the organization in a long time that made me think Colt would get a year 3. I do agree with Brandt on Tannehill's value and Richardson being someone we could really use. RG3 I simply do not see as a good fit for this offense.

Receiver, I want Reggie Wayne and then draft a Dwight Jones, Joe Adams or the kid from Florida that wowed at the senior bowl transitioning from rb to wr. Someone with big run after catch potential that can be had in the 3rd.

I'm curious, if we took Richardson at #4 or with the Redskins pick, what would his rookie salary be? Anybody have a decent guess?

Ytown...I get what your saying. If colt can't get the job done, then he needs replaced. I won't argue that.

We differ on the timeframe required. Don't remember what post it was in but it talked about how rodgers looked like he wasn't gonna pan out. mistakes, poor accuracy, leaving the pocket...all sorts of stuff that could lead one to say that he doesn't have it.

The team stuck will him, and he turned into what he is today. Now i'm not going to argue measureables because time doesn't guarantee success. It is required though to make an accurate decision. Thats just what i think. It doesn't mean that colt is going to be rodgers. Thats as ridiculous as comparing rookie stats of other great qbs. The only thing that is does prove is that even great qb's needed time.

I also understand that if a team thinks that a qb has all the tools then they will get more time. Take draft position....all it really means is that teams generally think they are the best of the best right now. Its their best guess. More expensive contracts also dictate more time invested also, cause otherwise you just wasted a bunch of cash for nothing.


as far as my ranking of qb's...whats the point? I'll bet you have them ranked as follows

Production wise roethlesburger would win hands down i guess. Then Flacco, then Dalton, then colt.

Look a little deeper though

Roth walked into a team with a great defense and running game. Did he do some good stuff? Sure. They didn't ask him to do a lot at first though....he didn't have to carry the team. Look at that team when he sat out the beginning of the season a few years ago....kept on rolling. Pit has also had the same defense and offensive for his entire career....HC changed, but tomlin kept the coordinators and schemes. They build thru the draft too....they do it right.

Then there is flacco....he's had the luxury of a great defense for years. Same coach and OC since 2008...great running game. Same DC for 3. Not to mention ozzy drafting well for years. You think ozzy didn't find a coach to fit what he had on the roster? Is flacco the reason for there success? He contributes, but if you say ravens....i think defense is what has been doing it for them.

Dalton...he's played well. New OC, decent running game...same HC since 2003. The jury is still out on this kid, but he did play pretty well i guess. I would say he's promising.

Then there is colt. What did he walk into? Well we had hills. He was an afterthought who was to sit and learn. Then he gets thrown into the fire. Mangini's team was built to win games by minimizing mistakes, sound defense, and running the ball. That works until you are down points from turnovers and the like. Now what kind of situation does that leave the offense? Not good. Rooks don't carry teams...at least not very well....up and down will be the standard. These guys just haven't seen enough yet.

Then you have this year....new coach, new offense, new defense....no offseason. Can you say cluster? Our best players are who? Thomas...cribbs, and hillis?

So we roll out with that....hillis goes down....then his backup...the 3rd stringer never even made it to opening day.

cribbs made his name on special teams...and now he's a starter. Does that sound odd to you? We had nothing at receiver. So we start a guy who i'm sure doesn't run the best routes. A rook who hasn't played in a year. And two guys who in there second year in the nfl, and 2nd offensive system are still unknowns. Momass gets hurt...I'm sure that didn't help his development. Robo well...who knows. He must be stupid or have attitude problems.

So. Here we are running one of the most complicated offenses in the nfl. All based on timing...accuracy, the ability for the receiver and the qb to recognize a defense and make adjustments in a split second. And all you can say is colt don't look like he has it?

Lets go further...not only is our qb inexperienced...our best looking rb is from another teams practice squad, with no experience in our offense, and our receivers way behind the eight ball on the learning curve. I'm surprised we didn't try to track down ben gay.

Our line is plagued with injuries and teaching two technical rooks....not to mention that they all are learning a new blocking scheme yet again.

If that isn't a recipe for disaster i don't know what is. Penalties, poor timing. 3rd and long....max protect needed constantly keeping moore off the field.

Are you really gonna lay the blame on one guy? Not me.

Holmgren saw something in colt. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. He wouldn't have drafted him if he didn't think there was a chance of him becoming something. Maybe its a starter...maybe its a backup. Its way to soon to tell.

I think you have to give these guys some time....all of them.

Your QB question like this takes away from the TEAM....all of them. Its not just insert "great qb" and win. Teamwork...experience...talent...attitude...thats what wins games.

You see a team winning, and think thats why coaches and players get more time.

I see time as what makes teams consistent, and then they win.


I'm not gonna look it up...you probably know off the top of your head...

Out of the teams in the Super Bowl. How many have head coaches, OC's, and DC's that have been around for 3-4 years? Out of those...how many of those QB's have been around for that long too?

I'll bet that if you look at it, those teams have the majority of there starters that have been in that system for 3+ years. Maybe even more.

Consistency, good drafting....developing your players gets you there...


I think we are on the right track...from the top down we are on the same page for once...lots of experience in the coaching staff...we seem to be drafting intelligently.

I think we are all going to finally get what we are looking for...a solid team that we can be proud of for years. I know this dawg will have tears in my eyes when we hoist that Superbowl trophy.

This team has tried everything except one....stay the course. Grow....learn....win.

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I have a serious question. If you could have any QB in our division, who would you take?

Who would be your 2nd choice?

Your 3rd?

4th?

I know who my 1st is ...... and I know who my 4th is ........ who are yours?

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That is a dumb test. Before last season if I said put the the NFC West QB's in order you would probably go Bradford, Kolb, Jackson, Smith. Now it's arguably Smith, Bradford, Jackson, Kolb.

We can do it with the NFC South as well. Brees, Ryan, Freeman, Newton. Now Brees, Newton, Ryan, Freeman.

So you're saying that Colt McCoy can't improve from now until next season? Huh? You don't think Colt McCoy can pass Andy Dalton?

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Brandt rates Oklahoma State’s Justin Blackmon as the third-best player in the draft but does not advocate spending the No. 4 pick on any wide receiver.

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Ya that makes a lot of since

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Brandt admits Blackmon is a tempting target and that he is intrigued to see how high he will go.

“I think it all depends on how fast he runs,” Brandt said. “He’s a lot like Michael Irvin. He’s real strong. He’ll catch that slant.”

But ...

“With wide receivers, you’re always going to find one,” Brandt said. “It’s no longer the guy that can run the fastest. It’s the guy that’s gonna catch it coming across the middle.

“There’s a lot of wide receivers every year. Last year, (Doug) Baldwin from Stanford was undrafted. He led the Seahawks in catches and yardage.”

Victor Cruz, undrafted in 2010, racked up 1,536 receiving yards for the eventual Super Bowl champion Giants during the 2011 regular season.

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Those are only two examples, but when you consider all of the ones who do not cut the mustard compared to the few that do, then it's more like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

I don't think you can always find a WR where he is your go to guy.

The RB position is no longer the position of yesteryear and if we can except that as fact, such as not taking Richardson at 4, but as he himself suggested by trading down and taking him later, then we have already established that fact.

I think that their is another side to that coin witch balances the value to a team that has good receivers.
In my mind the WR position holds more value then it did in yesteryear, but I guess I'm just ahead of the curb on that thought process.

I have highlighted in bold contradicting statements.

Yeah, i kind of felt he was off his nut on this whole article, but then thought "who the hell am i anyway?"

I read the article on a link from this site. I guess you didn't read it.

web page

for what its worth. He didn't look like he was going to pan out. They stuck with him, and he did. Two years in the system...then the light came on.

When I read articles like this, I often get the presumption that the big time league guys like this who write articles like this are only looking at the Browns as an after thought. They're probably covering all 32 teams, or most of them, and when the time comes to focus on what the Browns might do, they haven't given it anymore consideration than ... So he probably goes back to the company line, the template so to speak,
Team Browns,
interest, RG3, or Blackmon, or Richardson.

Then an article like this wouldn't be meant for anyone who follows this stuff day to day, but meant for some baseball fan or person who follows the celebrity gossip day to day who just happens along this subject 3 or 4 times a year, reads this article and gets the standardized opinion.

But what most gets me is I'm not in the LEAST convinced ANY of these article writers want whats best for the Cleveland Browns. I'm much more convinced these guys are looking to Pigeon Hole these top 20, or top 50 prospects into any available slotted teams pick. And when it comes down to the musical chairs of " whos left" well you get things like Cleveland Browns and Lamar Miller, mentioned.

Same as Len Pasqurelli, or Mel Kiper or Jon Clayton, or whoever. They sure are providing a service and working hard and putting information out there, but convince me they put a primary focus on the Browns, or more importantly they want what is best for the Browns, and NO I don't beleive it.

Now somebody is gonna tell me Gil Brandt is the new Browns beat writer or ? and, I Don't know who Gil Brandt is, but the point is still the same.

This is a better guage in my opinion.

If player X went to the Steelers would you be nervous about player X lighting up the Browns in Cleveland.

If the answer is yes then maybe he's a good player. Example: Hillis

If the answer is no then maybe it's time to find a new option. Example: Colt

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Now somebody is gonna tell me Gil Brandt is the new Browns beat writer or ? and, I Don't know who Gil Brandt is, but the point is still the same.

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Well you would have to know him to know where he is coming from.

He says on one hand that he has Blackmon rated #3 in the draft, but would probably not take a WR with the 4th selection. (Does that mean he would have passed on Green last April if he had that pick?).
He goes on to say that WR can be found anywhere blah, blah, blah, that's old school thinking and it's a problem that most of us have a hard time letting go of and I include myself here.

RB's used to be thought of almost as highly as the QB's where.
His love for Richardson is I think clouding his judgment to the point where he would rather concede that you don't take RB's high in the Draft, but on the other hand he can't let go emotionally, to the point where he would rather trade down and still take Richardson over taking a prospect at 4 whom he has rated as #3 in the Draft.

Nostalgic thinking is what he is guilty of here imo.

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Don't remember what post it was in but it talked about how rodgers looked like he wasn't gonna pan out. mistakes, poor accuracy, leaving the pocket...all sorts of stuff that could lead one to say that he doesn't have it.

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Aaron Rodgers? No offense .... but can you back that up?

I didn't watch a tremendous amount of Green Bay football in Rodgers first year as a starter, and he hardly played prior to that, but his first year starting was damn near incredible. he threw for over 4000 yards, completed 63.6% of his passes, 28 TD 13 INT, had a 93.8 QB rating, and averaged 7.53 yards/pass attempt, with 48 plays of 20+ yards.

If that's looking like he's not going to pan out ....... well, then I dunno. I'd take it every single day from a first time starter. If McCoy had done that last year, we wouldn;t be having this conversation, because I'd be on his side.

Now, Rodgers' 1st 2 years he had 31 total pass attempts .... while sitting behind Favre ........ and he had 28 in his 3rd year ....... but I'm not sure when you say he struggled?

McCoy has been nowhere near Rodgers. Rodgers arm makes McCoy's looks like a rubber band driven wind up toy. He can zip the ball into windows that McCoy cannot dream of hitting. He has a command of the offense, and frankly, I don't expect that out of McCoy yet. What I do expect are NFL throws. I expect him to be able to hit a moving target instead of having to rely on throwing only to stationary targets.

I am going to try and condense the rest of my response to answer some of your other points.

In a way, the team's performance is meaningless when it comes to evaluating the QB. people don't seem to believe this, but you can evaluate a QB "in a bubble", regardless of what is going on around him.

McCoy has major and continuing problems hitting a moving target. He is decent when the route is a stop route, or when the route calls for the receiver to settle down in a zone. Every QB can make those throws. That's simple pitch and catch. Those are not the kind of throws where a QB earns his stripes.

I watch McCoy struggle to make throws to receivers on the move. He struggles with ball placement if they are running a slant, often throwing the ball where it can be caught, but not in optimum position for the receiver to make a play after the catch. McCoy hit exactly one of these correctly, late in the year, to Little IIRC. That's it. He doesn't throw a particularly effective pass on an out. His ball really floats. His passes down the field lose accuracy as he throws further. I will state that he throws a decent pass on the run, while rolling to the right. However, he cannot make those same throws from the pocket. Teams notice stuff like that, and they adapt.

McCoy was protected in his 1st season. The team really went out of their way to make sure that he didn;t have to carry the load against teams like New Orleans and New England. They were unable to do so against Pittsburgh, in his 1st start, because of the way the scoring went in that game. He still seemed ok ...... but no one knew what to expect out of him yet.

Teams now know what to expect out of McCoy. They know what his favorite routes are, They know what his preferences are. They have a book on him as far as what he does under pressure and such. How did they defense him this past year? They ran a minimal outside/deeper defense, and stacked the box. They attempted to stop the run, and dared us to beat them deep against single coverage.

Single coverage leads to receivers being open. A defensive back in single coverage can only cover inside or out, over or under. Now, granted, some are better than others, and there are some guys that you just aren't going to throw against, but for most DBs, there is a window somewhere to his a play against single coverage. However, this takes elite accuracy down the field. It takes a guy who can throw over the top of a DB. I am reminded of the pass down the sideline on the winning drive in the Super Bowl. That pass that Manning made, against double coverage to Manningham, is a pass that would have gone incomplete probably 95 times out of 100 with either one of our QBs. They just can't make those throws. We would have heard how the receivers can't get open, or how it's impossible t complete passes like that against double coverage, and so on. Play makers make plays, and QBs who are play makers make those kind of plays. We have no one who can make those throws.

I also wonder why our receivers regressed so much. Last year, the receivers went largely unused until Delhomme showed McCoy how guys were open. (this was reported in the papers) McCoy seems to have forgotten this already. He doesn't see openings, instead seeing doors slammed shut. He is consistently late throwing middle routes, and instead of getting the ball there when the receiver is breaking open, he seems to need to see that guy open completely before he throws the ball. This, of course, leads to guys then having coverage roll to them as the ball arrives. That s not how an effective NFL QB plays.

I watched, and re-watched most of McCoy's games last year ..... looking for what he could do consistently, and what he did that could be built upon. It is really a struggle to find things that he does above and beyond NFL average in any regard. Honestly, I couldn't find any. He has decent accuracy short, but most other QBs are better. He doesn't place the ball well, and does not give his players an opportunity to run with the ball. (a MUST in the WCO) he doesn't seem to read defenses well. He doesn't see blitzes well. he doesn't seem able to hit a moving target with any consistency. His footwork is atrocious. His accuracy down the field from the pocket is horrible. It is somewhat better when rolling to the right, but even then he takes what could be big play TDs and turns them into just plays because he does not deliver the ball on time, and/or on target. His pocket awareness, especially on blitzes from the left, if horrific. He might as well wear a blinder to that side of the field. Frankly I'm stunned that teams didn;t run more DB blitzes off the left side because McCoy almost never sees them, and he never burns the defense for running them. I remember that big play TD to Little that Wallace threw .... where the DB came off the left on a blitz, and Wallace rolled out while keeping his eyes down the field, and delivering a strike to Little that he took for the TD. Wallace is hardly a premium QB, but this is a pass that McCoy cannot make. he would have been sacked, despite being faster than Wallace. Best case scenario with McCoy would have been a run, or maybe a short pass to the RB.

I really have tried to find any plus qualities that McCoy possesses, and he does have solid leadership, and he is "tough", to an extent. He has decent accuracy when rolling to the right. He can run the ball when necessary. He has modest accuracy on short passes, but his ball placement is horrible. I simply do not see any plus qualities on which to build. I really wish that someone would say what they see as the things that he does well without blaming other players on offense. I see very little.

As far as time in the off-season ...... that might carry more weight if rookies hadn't done so damned well this past year.

Cam Newton was a superstar last year. Dalton was highly effective. Locker barely played, throwing 4 TDs and 0 INT though. . Ponder was decent, completing 54% of his passes, with 13 TD and 13 INT. Mallet and Kaepernick didn't play. That leaves Gabbert in the 1st round as the guy who struggled mightily.

So let's look at how the much maligned Gabbert did. People have laughed at his abilities and such, and he played on a team that was probably worse then ours on the offensive side of the ball. he was also probably the least prepared QB as far as coming from college to the NFL and starting immediately.

Anyway .... let's look at Gabbert.

Gabbert completed 50% of his passes, for 2214 yards. He averaged 5.36 yards/attempt. He had 25 big plays of 20+ yards in 413 attempts. he threw 12 TD and had 11 INT.

Let's compare this to the QB he was probably closest in results to .....

Colt McCoy completed 57.2% of his passes for 2733 yards. He averaged 5.90 yards/attempt. he had 26 big plays of 20+ yards in 463 pass attempts. he threw 14 TD and 11 INT.

McCoy had a slightly better completion percentage, but certainly not anywhere near the leaders. One would expect better given the plethora of short passes he threw. I would suspect that Gabbert's yards/attempt would have improved if he had been completing a higher percentage of his passes. However, when you take a look at the 2 QBs, there are far more similarities than differences. Neither guys creates big plays. Neither guy has a plus completion percentage. Both guys threw about the same number of INT as TD passes. Neither was a difference maker fr his team.

Gabbert was a rookie, thrown into a completely unknown offense, after the Jaguars decided to dump Garrard. He had no clue that he was going to start. He was about as unprepared as a young QB could be.

McCoy knew that he was going to start ...... had the hugely publicized meeting with Brett Favre .... had a play book to study in the off-season ........ and had his "Camp Colts". I expected more from him than to only be better than one rookie QB ..... and then only barely.

I simply do not see the upside that some posters see ...... and no one seems willing to tell me why they see it except for "well, other guys have struggled". Well, that's true, but other guys also demonstrated talents and physical abilities that gave their teams hope. I don't see those from McCoy. I see a nice kid, a hard worker, and a guy who wants to learn and do well ....... but ultimately, that only gets you so far. There has to be some degree of physical talent to build upon, and I am afraid that I just don't see it with McCoy. With McCoy, I see a guy with a lot of definable limitations, and not a while lot of upside. His limitations have been with him his entire life, and I don't see him improving on them enough to be a great NFL starter. Frankly, I don;t see him being much more than a Charlie Frye/Brady Quinn type, who will do "OK" ...... but that's about his ceiling ...... just "OK". I simply do not see any elite qualities that lead me to believe that he can become a great QB.

I wish he was a great QB, (or even potentially great) because then we wouldn't have to continue looking .... but I see no indication in any regard that he will be.

I appreciate your effort, but this post would have been much better if it wasn't the same thing you've been saying for the past three months.

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Aaron Rodgers? No offense .... but can you back that up?

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brownielf posted this article that seems to support the thought that Rodgers wasn't going to work out..

If you look, they were mostly talking about the preseason games he played in. So you have to take that with a bit of a grain of salt.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/r...-136856133.html

Well, isn't this year going to be a bit different for rookies??

I thought that last year's rookies were grandfathered in to be able to have fat contracts and this year is the first year of caps??

... or is my memory going to hell?

No - there were caps for last years rookies. They really lost out (about 60% of their money disappeared in between being drafted and being able to sign)

I'd be happy with Peyton at 5 million per, especially since we still have the ability to get that next good player at 4 as well.

Cam Newton signed a 4 year deal worth "more than" $22 million, that was fully guaranteed.

Von Miller's deal was for $21 million, also fully guaranteed.

AJ Green's deal was about $19 million, fully guaranteed.

Julio Jones (taken with our original pick) signed a $16.2 million deal that was fully guaranteed.

Getting to our guy, Taylor signed a 4 year, $8.1 million deal, with all 4 years guaranteed.

That seems to be the new thing ..... guaranteeing contracts as opposed to huge money and huge signing bonuses.

You want to pay the quaterbacks coach 5 million a year? Peyton can't throw across his body so unless we need him to hold a clipboard or mentor the starting QB, i think it's a waste to even talk about manning playing again.

Where is that info coming from? I just read an article that said a guy who knows Manning, is a member of the media and claims to have spoken with Manning is the one saying he has a noodle arm. No where does it say that anyone who has actually seen Manning throw a ball supports this claim. I do not know one way or another, maybe he can't and maybe right now he is not at that point in his rehab to even try to make all the throws but I sure haven't seen anything reliable to support that.