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I have two questions for all the gurus out there.
Let's say that we do what mayock suggests..Trade up to get RG3. he comes in and as often happens with rookies on a less than talented team, they struggle for a year.. maybe more. (bradford)
Are we then supposed to go after the next new shiny object QB in the draft?
Answer???...NO NO and NO...
Man u r soooo driven by media it ain't even funny...And I'm NOT explaining that...
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When is this merry-go-round going to end.
When we find a QB that has the Physical and Mental Talent to build upon and develop...
And McCoy ain't it...It's so damn obvious it's pathetic...But let's keep that BS 22 pick and get some mediocre possible decent starter and leave the QB position alone yet again...The talent at 22 is JUNK this year...
U need to get a gosh damn CLUE...Stop reading all the media BS in Cleveland and stop falling into all the fan noise crap...I ain't explaining that one either...
Until we get a QB on this team that has the Physical and Mental capabilities that we can develop and build around...We ain't goin' ANYWHERE...Build the team all u want...Keep trading down and leaving ELITE talent on the board for some BS 2nd and 5th rounders...And when we're 8-8 and 9-7 constantly...Good damn luck ever finding a QB...
The BEST QB's in any draft r going 1-2-3...The teams drafting in those spots r there because they SUCK...And it's mostly because they don't have a decent QB...Bradford was injured all year...And Ponder should've been a 3rd or 4th round pick...
Now u go right ahead and build up this team to be 8-8 or 9-7...Good gosh damn luck trying to pry the #2 or #3 pick away from a team that SUCKS and has no QB worth a damn...
MOUR...The only reason u slam RGIII is because u have your head so far up Tanny's butt it's clouding your judgement...U need to get off the fixation with Tannehill and start at least LOOKING at this possibility of Griffin...Cause we're in striking distance to make it happen if we like this kid...Open your mind a bit and start breaking it down...
The more I think about this the more I'm liking it...We all know what Roperburger does to us every time we meet...He gets free and buys time and makes something happen...And it's usually HUGE...3rd and 10 and he's about SACKED...Only to get out of it and hits Ward for 15...And that lil' AHOLE gets up with that pansy ass smurk on his face...Imagine what a QB the caliber of Griffen could do with that being 50 times more mobile...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
The talent at 22 is JUNK this year...
It is?
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Quote:
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The talent at 22 is JUNK this year...
It is?
I don't think I'd go that far. I think that there are quality starters to be had at 22. Maybe not superstars ...... but definitely legitimate NFL starters.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So it's like every other year.
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Probably. I don't think that the strike last year had an impact on underclassmen. (other than maybe Luck) I don't think that the talent pool is diluted for any reason. (except maybe Barkley and a player or 2 like Ball returning to school this year) I actually like the depth at WR and CB to an extent down to rounds 2-3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I pretty much already knew this. Just wanted to confirm the absurdity of that post.
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You are so hell bent on giving up a pick for a QB that you blind yourself to their faults. Go on another rant about giving up 3 firsts for Luck all you want but that move would be the dumbest thing we could do and giving up 2 firsts to trade up for Griffin would be just as dumb.
I only hope Heckert has a lot more brains than to give up 2 firsts for another smurf from the spread that runs around until the receivers get open.
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If mayock, Kiper, or any other these other self proclaimed guru's were any good they would be working for a NFL team.
Why? They probably make more than an NFL head of scouting makes and they don't have to be accountable when they are wrong. I'd take Kipers job over a real NFL scout any day. 
yebat' Putin
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So it's like every other year.
Not only that, but all prospects come with a possible bust factor.
Even Luck, in part due to the astronomical expectations placed on him by fans and especially the talking heads.
There is a part of me that actually feels sorry for him. He is always going to have the icon of Peyton Manning looking over his shoulders and he is probably not going to have the time Aaron Rodgers had to hone his skills on the bench for a couple of years to slay that dragon so to speak.
So much attention has been given to our first pick, that the rest of the Draft seems to be an after thought around here.
 (to all ) You know the Phil Taylor's and Jabaal Sheard's of the draft pool.
PS.....
Do you guy's think that we can get this debate out of first gear? I feel like I have been stuck on ground hogs day ever since. 
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There is a part of me that actually feels sorry for him. He is always going to have the icon of Peyton Manning looking over his shoulders and he is probably not going to have the time Aaron Rodgers had to hone his skills on the bench for a couple of years to slay that dragon so to speak.
I have thought the same thing. I get the feeling there are a bunch of fans (not just Colt's fans) who expect Luck to pick up on day 1 where Manning left off... and that is totally unrealistic.
yebat' Putin
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Cracks me up that RG3 is getting all this press and completely overshadowing Luck. Would be amazing if the Colts went RG3 at number 1.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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I think the press for RGIII is because Luck is a foregone conclusion at 1. It's more fun for the media to speculate about who will trade up to #2 (if anyone) and how much they'll have to give up than to say "It's Thursday, and the Colts are still drafting Andrew Luck at #1."
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Yea, lets NOT change our system ( or even tweak it ) for one person even though he may end up being the next Newton or Rodgers for this team.
I say leave it alone for a few more years and lets see if we can make what we already have, all of a sudden more talanted. Heck, The "system" worked SO well last year..............
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We just spent an entire year implementing a system. You most certainly DON'T change the entire system for one player. You get the right players for the system you run. If that QB isn't available this year, you don't just plug a new one in for the sake of change. Not when there are other holes that can be filled until the right QB is available. This isn't high school where you have to adapt more to the personnel than the other way around.
I'm reminded of when Lou Holtz recruited Ron Powlus - a passing QB - to be an option QB at Notre Dame. I never understood what was dumber - Holtz recruiting him or him actually going to ND thinking he could suddenly be an option QB.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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jc Which part of "there's no need to change system when you draft RG3" don't you guys get?  And we're also not "giving up our entire draft" if we spend #4 and #22 for him 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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The system shouldn't be changed. BUT things should be added to take advantage of his athleticism (more shotgun, a little option, etc.)
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I would love to see the option run in this division. It would probably work twice before the QB died.
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"It's Thursday, and the Colts are still drafting Andrew Luck at #1."
I absolutely think SC should open every single show with this (and the correct day of the week) until the draft. It would be one of the best running jokes they'd have had in a long time.
#gmstrong
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What if,one night in drunken stupor,Payton Manning signs a contract with the Browns?
Does the illustrious Pat Shurmur say to him,"Idon't care what you did in Indy,this is the way we do it"
Or do the powers tweak their scheme to fit what this certain HOFer does best?
You know,give him the best opportunity to succeed.
Many of you are hung up on this WCO scheme,what exactly is that?
I'd venture a guess that most NFL teams run some components of the WCO,hell the Packers look more like a spread team,because they've adapted to thier talent.
I don't watch enough college ball to know if this kid will be good or not.But to not draft a talented player simply because he does not fit your ideal stereotype,would be asinine.
Montana,Young,Mcnabb,Favre,Rodgers,Vick,Hasselbach,what is the commonality between them?They are all different yet each has been successful in the WCO.
In my mind,the prototypical WCO QB is talented and well coached,nothing different that any other successful QB.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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"Browns - 4 , 22 , 68 , 100" To move up TWO spots?? Ridiculous.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Going by that I can't see anyone trading up for RGIII.
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Quote:
Team Trade Chart Adjusted Chart
Browns 4 , 22 , 183 ......4 , 22 , 68 , 100
Redskins 6 , 1st in 2013......6 , 70 , 109 , 2013 First Round
Dolphins 8 , 74 , 2013 First Round ......8 , 40 , 200 , 2013 First Round
Last edited by CleveSteve; 02/16/12 04:18 PM.
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Going by that I can't see anyone trading up for RGIII.
I hope you're right. 
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What I think is dumb is that they say the Falcons overpaid by 75% (yes, we fleeced them), but then come back and say "this is what it will take to move into that spot based on the Falcons trade".
It's one way or the other.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Falcons trade went pretty much exactly by the trade value chart. Next year's first is always given points for the 32nd pick because that is all that is guaranteed.
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If anything we can finally turn to chapter 2 and 3 of the WCO (see Philly) and implement some deep crossers, which in return, open up the bread and butter underneath stuff
We can EXPAND the playbook and not CUT IT DOWN like we had to for Colt....major difference
EXACTLY...
Everyone thinks WCO is all short throws...U throw short all the time and u can forget any running game...Safeties up...8 and 9 in the box...Equals FAILURE...And when u have a McCoy running this u r doomed simply because noone in their right mind respects his deeper stuff...
RGIII has a superb arm for deeper stuff...
IF Gil Brandt says anything remotely close to Mayock...I'M SOLD...
Give 4 and 22...And one of our 4's if need be and go get this dude...
This is exactly it... The WCO isn't just dinking and dunking it down the field. It's getting defenses to commit to covering that so you can burn them deep and then when they're afraid of the deep ball, throwing short again. It's about getting defenses to commit to the pass so you can open up running lanes. It can even be about making plays scrambling if everything is well covered.
RGIII isn't a standard WCO QB, he actually brings MORE to the table than a normal guy would. Not only is he accurate short, he also throws a beautiful deep ball and possesses great scrambling ability to get out of trouble. We saw this year what happens when a team doesn't respect anything but the short stuff and it means 0 opportunity for YAC as guys running quick routes were getting blown up instantly. Simply put, RGIII will get a defense to respect EVERY aspect of an offense and there isn't a defense in existence that can play against everything all at once.
Who cares if he didn't play under center? Who cares if his footwork can get a bit loose? Who cares if he needs to learn WCO reads? What about that isn't correctable with coaching? RGIII is smart enough that it shouldn't be a problem. Coaching isn't going to suddenly bless Colt to be able to throw with the kind of velocity, distance and arm angles that RGIII can use... but you'd better believe it can get RGIII playing under center. Heck, watch him throw on his pro day, I bet he'll be showing that off some.
Don't tell me the guys who worked with/brought in Favre/Young/McNabb/Vick/Wallace, etc. are going to be scared off by RGIII's ability/athleticism in favor of another noodle arm. If anything, I think they'll be extremely intrigued by them and to me, that's easily worth the 4 and 22 given that most of the guys I liked at 22 (Kendall Wright) aren't likely to even be there.
I hope we have the guts to pull the trigger.
We're... we're good?
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Falcons trade went pretty much exactly by the trade value chart. Next year's first is always given points for the 32nd pick because that is all that is guaranteed.
I did the math some weeks ago on this trade and we got way more than the chart value...I remember that the SURPLUS was the value of a late 2nd...in other words: it took ATL what the chart demanded AND another low 2nd to get our pick
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We all know what Roperburger does to us every time we meet...He gets free and buys time and makes something happen...And it's usually HUGE...3rd and 10 and he's about SACKED...Only to get out of it and hits Ward for 15...And that lil' AHOLE gets up with that pansy ass smurk on his face...Imagine what a QB the caliber of Griffen could do with that being 50 times more mobile...
BR also has the size/strength to shed tackles and make those plays standing upright with defenders hanging on him.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Its still early in the draft process but at this point I do not trade up to get RG3, if hes there at 4 we take him but this team still has a lot of holes and 1st round picks are a valued commodity.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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by the value chart our pick was worth 1600 pts. The total of their picks was 1750. They overpaid by the value of a late 3rd rounder.
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Going by that I can't see anyone trading up for RGIII.
I hope you're right.
If the Skins/Phins can somehow sign Peyton Manning, there goes at least one team from the equation. And Flynn is going to one of the teams that need a QB too. I don't think trading up for RG3 will be necessary.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Its still early in the draft process but at this point I do not trade up to get RG3, if hes there at 4 we take him but this team still has a lot of holes and 1st round picks are a valued commodity.
It's Official...I'm not gonna make it to the Draft...
Every time I see that comment it lights me on fire...
That is flawed thinking...
If we are willing to take Griffin at 4...That means we think he is FRANCHISE QUALITY...
When u think a QB is Franchise Quality u do everything u can to MAKE SURE U SECURE HIM...
The damn building CAN continue...Jeeeezezzzzz...
Go Browns!!!
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by the value chart our pick was worth 1600 pts. The total of their picks was 1750. They overpaid by the value of a late 3rd rounder.
It all depends on how you value that future pick. Some people say it's the team's same pick in the next round (team picking 8th trading a future 1 would be worth 8th pick in the 2nd round, #40 overall), some say next round pick 16 no matter where they are picking this year, then I suppose you could count how you did using pick 32. It's all very unscientific, especially when debating futures.
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by the value chart our pick was worth 1600 pts. The total of their picks was 1750. They overpaid by the value of a late 3rd rounder.
Our 1600p
ATL 2011:
#28 = 660p
#59 = 310p
#124 = 48p
= 1018p
so only for last year's draft we had a value loss of almost 600p
ATL 2012
#22 = 780p
#118 = 58p
= 838p
1018p+838p = 1856p - 1600p = 256p surplus ~ high 3rd...we used exactly this surplus to trade back up for Taylor btw
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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so you are saying that us trading up for Phil Taylor just made the trade a wash in points 
#gmstrong
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What if,one night in drunken stupor,Payton Manning signs a contract with the Browns?
Does the illustrious Pat Shurmur say to him,"Idon't care what you did in Indy,this is the way we do it"
Or do the powers tweak their scheme to fit what this certain HOFer does best?
You know,give him the best opportunity to succeed.
Many of you are hung up on this WCO scheme,what exactly is that?
I'd venture a guess that most NFL teams run some components of the WCO,hell the Packers look more like a spread team,because they've adapted to thier talent.
I don't watch enough college ball to know if this kid will be good or not.But to not draft a talented player simply because he does not fit your ideal stereotype,would be asinine.
Montana,Young,Mcnabb,Favre,Rodgers,Vick,Hasselbach,what is the commonality between them?They are all different yet each has been successful in the WCO.
In my mind,the prototypical WCO QB is talented and well coached,nothing different that any other successful QB.
I never said you don't adapt. I was responding to a post that made it sound like you take a talent regardless of how he fits the scheme, and then totally change what you do. Payton Manning could adapt to this scheme and the scheme would also be adapted to him. Last time I checked; however, RGIII was NOT Payton Manning. I was responding to a post about totally changing everything for RGIII, which I still say I wouldn't do.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Mayock Says Go Get RGIII...
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