DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Mayock Says Go Get RGIII...

Is it just me?

Or is RG III's self-promotion becoming an issue?

Seems like I keep hearing him talking about himself...not something I like.

I think this guy is going to bust.

From everything I've heard his arm is not a problem.

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His ability to be successful as a QB?

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...in the NFL. You can ask that question about any player though. Griffin has been a successful QB at the college level.

How did I end up being the one defending a guy I don't want to draft?

Everyone is self-promoter at this point in the off-season. He's trying to overtake Luck as the #1 pick.

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Using #4 on him would be a good pick imo.

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As others have said. If you think he is worth the #4 pick, then he is worth trading up for because he is a QB.

If you don't have a QB you have to get one. And trading the 4 and 22 for a franchise QB is not that much to pay for a franchise QB.

I don't think anyone thinks he is a shoe-in to become a franchise QB. Even Luck isn't a shoe-in, he just has more of a chance than a normal QB prospect would. If RGIII was a shoe-in he would be the #1 pick and Luck would be ours.

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FORT WORTH, TEXAS: Robert Griffin III is looking forward to sitting down and talking with NFL executives and coaches during the NFL combine.

While they know about Griffin being the first Heisman Trophy winner from Baylor, and all the records and big numbers he put up, the quarterback realizes many still have questions about him and the Bears’ potent spread-formation offense.

“I’m excited to wow them in the interviews with the type of offense that we run, just so they can understand it’s not as simple as some people make our spread out to be. It’s a different kind of spread,” Griffin said. “Although I don’t agree with it, but people say I just burst on the scene this year, so no one knows much about me, whether NFL GMs or analysts, so I get a chance to put my best foot forward.”

Griffin was in Fort Worth on Monday night to accept the Davey O’Brien Award that recognizes the nation’s top quarterback.

When the NFL draft takes place in two months, Griffin wants to be the first quarterback selected even though most projections have Stanford’s Andrew Luck going first overall to the Indianapolis Colts.

“We both want to be the best, we both want to be No. 1. Whether I get drafted first or not, it’s not going to change the way I play,” Griffin said. “All I can say, it’s about motivation. You never want to feel like everybody thinks you’re a sure thing in life because it can rob you of your motivation to go out and get better.”

Griffin insisted he has no hints of what might happen on draft day, but said when he went to Indianapolis during Super Bowl week that fans there were telling him they wanted him to come there. RG3 added that he hopes Peyton Manning stays in Indianapolis, because “he’s a legend and deserves that.”

Along with the interviews later this week at the NFL combine, Griffin plans to run the 40-yard dash and do other drills.

But Griffin said he likely won’t throw in Indianapolis. He will instead save that for his pro day March 21, which has been moved up a day to avoid going at the same time as the pro day for Luck, the Heisman runner-up.

Griffin has been working extensively with quarterback consultant Terry Shea preparing for the NFL combine and his pro day. They have done a lot of work on the dual-threat quarterback’s foot work.

“Just getting used to the type of routes you have to throw at the next level,” Griffin said. “Basically just trying to find the best way to allow my skills to shine, whether that’s my quick release or just my ability to drive the football down the field.

“It’s like a performance when it comes to your pro day and when you’re throwing. It’s exactly like a performance, you’ve just got to memorize the script and go out and execute to the best of your ability,” he said. “Once you get drafted, you can go to your team and learn the grand scheme of things.”

Griffin set or tied 54 school records in 41 games at Baylor, which last season tied a school record with 10 wins — the other 10-win season was in 1980 during Mike Singletary’s senior year. The Bears won their last six games in 2011, and the record-setting 67-56 victory over Washington in the Alamo Bowl was their first bowl victory since 1992.

Griffin is the school’s career passing leader, completing 800 of 1,192 passes (67 percent) for 10,366 yards and 78 touchdowns with 17 interceptions. His 2,254 yards and 33 TDs rushing are records for a Bears quarterback.

Sure, those numbers were made possible by Baylor’s offensive scheme. But Griffin said it was based on plenty of pro-style principles.

“At first glance, they see four or five wide receivers, a lot of motion, a lot of different sets of formations,” Griffin said. “If you take it from that aspect, it’s exactly the same things that the pros do, go two-tight, four wide and two tight ends, and tight end at running back like the Patriots do.”

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Akron Beacon Journal

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I don't care if he's a qb or not. That has no bearing on my opinion.

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And that's why you lose the argument. No matter what you think, quarterback is more valuable than any other position. There is no, "I agree to disagree" bull crap. It is pretty cut and dry. QB > every other position.

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Stop with this "franchise" crap. Please, for the love of GOD - stop with the "franchise" crap!

You have NO idea what he'll be like in the nfl - him, or any other pick.

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When you draft a player you project what he will be in the future. Some may project RGIII to be a franchise QB. Yes, that happens.

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If you lived in a shack and rode a bicycle to work, yet you somehow came into $100,000 - would you blow all that on a car to get to work, while you still lived in a shack?

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So if we traded #4 and #22 for the #2 that would be blowing everything? Wouldn't we still have the rest of the draft to improve our team? If I'm not mistaken, normally we only have one first round pick so I would just be like any other draft.

Bottom line. Your priorities are messed up. You think QB's aren't more valuable than the other positions. They are. You are wrong.

Jeez man. All this for a player I don't even want to take.

I see your argument on the other issues,, but on the value of a trade up,, we are going to disagree.

If a guy falls to you at 4 and you like him, take him.

if you gotta move up to get him at 2, you will have to give up more than JUST the 4th pick.., You are talking about the 4, 22 and beyond (how far beyond I don't know but some experts are saying it will take the browns first 4 picks of this draft or the first three of this draft and the 1st from next year to move up to get the second pick)

So, what you are giving up to get the second pick is anywhere from 2 to 3 additional high drafts picks this year and potentially next.

And yeah, that will hurt the team in the short run.. and if the guy you get busts,, oh brother.

Just a general Question for anyone. If Griffin comes in at 6' even or under 6'1 would it have any bearing on what you think? Right now he is listed as 6'3 and some places I see 6'2. He does have some hair up there.

I dont think he will fall to far simply because the Redskins love the kid. Shannahan likes that rolling pocket to extend plays and give the receivers time to get open.

I was just reading one guy saying they are fearful he will come in at 6' or closer to it. Then I just heard Fox just ask a scout if he comes in at 6' and 200 pounds if that will hurt him. I didn't get to hear the answer. Anytime I read that questioned about him they go on to talk about his athletic ability.

You know I have been thinking about this and I truly think Washington will hold the keys to how the draft shakes out.

My assumption is based on the fact that (regardless of what the Browns WILL do) we can do 1 of three things.

Scenario 1. We can trade UP to try and land Griffin
Scenario 2. We can sit where we are and take him at 4 if he falls (or just go another player)
Scenario 3. We can let him fall to 4 and then trade down so another team can secure him.


IF Washington is out of the picture by signing Manning or Flynn then I say we are really in a great position to not need to move up. St. Louis would need to make a deal with Miami OR Seattle as the only real partners and by then the Elite talent is gone (could happen ... but imagine what St. Louis would want to drop into the 10 or so range instead of taking the second best player).

But, if Washington signs no-one then they are probably going to want Griffin. Do you really think Shannahan wants to go into the season with sexy-rexy as his guy?

To me we will know what we have to do simply by where Manning signs (assuming we know where he goes) and Flynn signs.

There is also the possibility that WE sign Flynn ... but that would also forecast what our plans are pertaining to Griffin.

So as much as we might like or dislike him ... depending on where the QB's sign in Free Agency we will know what will happen. My hope? Manning and Flynn sign with Washington and Miami and then we can either take Griffin at 4

OR we could even trade down to Seattle's pick (11th or 12th subject to coin toss).

Using the almighty see-all-end-all draft chart we can tell that the #4 is 1800 points. If Seattle has the 11th (1250 points) then they also have the 44th (460 points) which puts them at 1710 or about 90 points short. If it's the 12th pick (1200 points) then it's the 45th overall as well (450 points). This puts them at 1650 or about 150 points short. If you factor in the value for QB's then it wouldn't be unreasonable to trade the #4 for the #11 / 12, the #44 / 45, and then demand a first or a second in next years draft as well.

We could still wind up with a pick at 11 or 12 (maybe enough to get Richardson? He MIGHT just fall) and then have an extra pick in the top 45 still as well as adding one next year. OR maybe we use that #11 or 12 on any number of needs. Tannehill (as some on here have fallen in love with him)? How about Reiff / Coples / Mercilus / Martin / Keuchly / or any other one of those "good" players who wouldn't merit the #4 overall selection but could still be great talent while still adding another 2nd and a pick next year?

I posted a picture from the Heismans, and RG3 looked almost exactly the same height as Luck ........ maybe 1/2" shorter, if that .....

I think that Griffin tends to slouch a bit, and that makes him look shorter. I think that he'll come in within 1/2 inch of 6'2". I have also heard a couple of interviews with his former teammates, and they have all said that he is a legit 6'2". I think that Taylor might be one of them.

Also, last year we used Jordan Norwood's father (an assistant coach at Baylor) as a source of information on Taylor before we drafted him. I could see us doing the same with RG3 this year.

I don't under stand all the hub bub about his height ... The kids at least a smig taller then any QB on our current roster.

I think it's a moot point. Maybe not to every team, but there certainly isn't that bias here in Cleveland.

This was a good read and I started writing about this earlier. I see a lot of articles and analyst say they will have to adjust some things around Griffin and change things up a bit. I just don't see them changing anything to fit a player in. Anyway..I am interested in finding that Carucci article he referred to.

Brown's face tough decision at QB
I was in Cleveland the day LeBron announced he would be taking his talents to South Beach. I’ve performed music in Cleveland more times than I can count. One of the things I enjoy about touring is getting to meet sports fans of all different teams, and walks of life. In that one day I gained more respect for Cleveland as a fan base than I have for any other in my life.

The sense of absolute misery that overtook everyone – from gas station attendants to elite music promoters and executives – was overwhelming. Even dogs walked around aimlessly, looking like they had been recently kicked. Cleveland is a city that lives vicariously through their professional sports franchises. Win or lose (and there’s been a lot more “lose” both recently and historically) the fans there take it personally. I love that about them.
Now, the Cleveland Browns are at a crossroads. Coming off a disappointing 4-12 season in 2011, the organization is faced with a monumental decision: What to do at quarterback, the league’s most vital position. My friends, my loyal readers, my fellow students of NFL sickness; it is here you will learn that whatever road Cleveland takes from their present situation into the wild blue yonder will come through Central Texas.

Browns QB Colt McCoy needs little introduction around these parts. While at the University of Texas, he broke nearly every Longhorn single-season and career QB record and took home 13 of 15 major QB awards his senior season as a Heisman and national championship finalist. McCoy is tough, gritty, smart, elusive, and accurate which makes up for his “so-so” arm strength. After being drafted in the third round and getting to start in spot duty in 2010, Colt came into the 2011 season as the Browns’ starting QB in a West Coast system that many close to the team thought he was beginning to get a good grasp of. The Browns’ season went on to be hampered by brutal injuries along the offensive line, a constant merry-go-round freak show at the running back position, and a complete lack of playmaking ability at WR. McCoy was lost for the season to a concussion suffered in Pittsburgh during week 13 via an illegal James Harrison hit. When the dust settled on the Browns’ 2011 season, only three numbers really mattered, though: 4, 12, and 0. Four wins, 12 Losses, and zero career wins for Colt McCoy against AFC North division opponents.

There’s a kid from up the road you might have heard of named Robert Griffin III. The Heisman-winning Baylor QB represents most everything a team looking for revitalization on offense could ask for. He has a big arm, he’s smart, he’s a great leader, and he exhibits excellent downfield vision and elite running ability. The best part: He does not rely on his feet to bail him out. Unlike most elite running QBs, he will always look to make the play with his arm first, sometimes taking brutal hits to remain in the pocket until his receiver comes open.

The Browns have two first-round picks in this year’s NFL draft. Pick No. 4 and pick No. 22. I will be attending the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis next week, and was invited for inclusion in Mike Mayock’s NFL Combine media conference call, where I had a chance to address the Cleveland QB issue. His thoughts were much different from those of NFL writing legend and Senior Editor for the Browns Vic Carucci who we spoke with in Mobile, Ala., earlier this month at the Senior Bowl.

Lets start at the top: The Colts will take Andrew Luck (QB, Stanford) with pick one. Saint Louis picks second. They have too much money tied up in Sam Bradford to even consider a QB. Their reasonable options are as follows: Matt Kalil (OT, USC), Justin Blackmon (WR, Oklahoma State), Morris Claiborne (CB, LSU) or in the best case scenario, trade out of the pick to someone who wants Robert Griffin and accumulate more picks through the very valuable late first, second, and third rounds. The two teams thought to be interested in possibly trading up are the Redskins and the Browns. At pick three, the Vikings would love to have Kalil fall to them, as LT is their single biggest need. If he is not there and Griffin is still on the board, they will try to trade down to a team wanting Griffin as the Vikes reached to draft QB Christian Ponder in last year’s draft. If they cannot trade down and Kalil is gone, I expect them to take Morris Claiborne at this point. Now we come to the Browns at pick four (assuming they did not trade up.) If Griffin is there … should they take him?

I say no.

“We haven’t seen an athlete like RG3 in many drafts,” Mike Mayock, lead draft analyst for the NFL Network told me. “The chance that the Browns may be able to get him, that’s exciting. It will be a ride, that’s for sure. There are a few flaws to his game, mainly lack of anticipation and waiting on plays to develop leading to too many big hits, but the bottom line is the kid is a playmaker.”

To me, the issue is not about Griffin’s playmaking ability or even his ability to be an elite NFL QB. I see the issue as being the system. Browns GM Mike Holgren is a Bill Walsh disciple. He has been building championship variations of the West Coast offense for almost 30 years now. In coming to Cleveland, he put his managerial trust in Head Coach Pat Shurmur who runs what he likes to call a “pure” form of the West Coast offense. Vic Carrucci affirmed our suggestion that there is generally a three-year learning curve for QBs developing into this kind of system. He went on to say that many decision-makers within the organization were beginning to see vast, marked improvement in McCoy’s progression in the system that was cut off too early in 2011 (albeit by only three games).

He said that if he had to prognosticate at this early juncture, that he believes McCoy will come in as the team’s starting QB next season. Carucci told us that the Browns scouting department has done such a bang-up job on the defensive side of the ball (drafting four defensive starters in the last two drafts) that he believed 2012 would be the year that Shurmur would finally get to address some of the offensive issues that have been left largely unanswered.

So I asked Mike Mayock, "Why would an offensive-minded coach (knowing how hard it is to go through a long QB development process) want to risk the possibility of making his hot seat even hotter by throwing in a wild-card uber-athlete at QB with no surrounding weapons?"

“That’s an interesting question – but we saw it all last year. Offenses are showing more and more … Cam Newton, for example. Look at Cam. He comes to Carolina, they build around him. All these guys, Jake Locker [Titans], Christian Ponder [Vikings], if there is one thing we learned last year it is that rookie QBs can come in and contribute," Maycock replied.

"But you said he has no anticipation. I agree. Do you not think that anticipation is important in a timing-based precision West Coast offense in which you must 'throw receivers open' as opposed to 'throwing to open receivers'?" I questioned.

“Yea, and its another one of these deals,” Mayock said. “You have an exceptional player here and a chance you may be able to get him. Childress, Shurmur, you know; they would have to change how they do some things, sure.”

Mike Holmgren doesn’t just “change things”. His staff will not either. Thinking in such broad terms can be messy. Panthers Head Coach Ron Rivera had the luxury of “letting Cam be Cam” on offense because he was a first-year defensive head coach with his hands full trying to fix the heap of garbage Carolina runs on D week in and week out. I see the idea of RG3 to the Browns as one that could create a lot of excitement for a fan base in dire need of some sort of positive spark, but I just don’t like the fit. Holmgren has stated publicly he will be taking a QB in 2012. This is not an indictment on the position or its current standing, just an affirmation of his regime’s “bullpen” mantra in either drafting or signing a new QB each season for depth and seasoning.

I see so many more reasonable options later in the draft. An accurate, smart passer like Kirk Cousins (Michigan State) in the third round would be ideal to groom under McCoy in case his development does not positively continue given his new weapons and surrounding cast. At that point, you have an accurate passer and student of the game coming into the system without the handicaps that McCoy endured his first season as a starter due to lack of offensive personnel. The position needs to be upgraded, but that does not mean that McCoy could not bring about that upgrade with a better offensive line, an entire off-season/training camp, and at least one offensive playmaker. If Griffin falls to pick four, I believe the Browns could trade down to six and let the Redskins take Griffin. At pick six, hopefully the Browns could land a Justin Blackmon, a Trent Richardson (RB Alabama), or worst case, a Riley Reiff (OT Iowa). Then at pick 22, there will be an embarrassment of riches at offensive skill options, especially WR. Through the second and third rounds is where the greatest value for interior offensive line is found.

I do believe Robert Griffin III will be an outstanding NFL QB. I simply do not believe he will be an outstanding Cleveland Brown QB given the current state of the organization.

[Alex Dunlap is the host of RosterWatch on 104.9FM ESPN Radio Austin, founder of Rosterwatch.com, and a featured expert contributor to the FantasyPros.com network. He is also an NFL draft analyst for PlayTheDraft.com.]

That article is an excellent read, thank you for posting it.

The writer writes well, but in my opinion, he really doesn't say much. Out of all of that, I saw "RGIII doesn't show anticipation-based throws on tape, and Colt McCoy hasn't been given enough time to develop. Colt McCoy has accuracy that makes up for his lack of arm strength (oh really?) I think RGIII will be a very good QB in the NFL, but I don't think the Browns should draft him."

You have to take anything remotely UT-related with a grain of salt coming from anyone from Austin. The same guy will probably tell you Vince Young just never got a real shot.

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If Griffin falls to pick four, I believe the Browns could trade down to six and let the Redskins take Griffin. At pick six, hopefully the Browns could land a Justin Blackmon, a Trent Richardson (RB Alabama), or worst case, a Riley Reiff (OT Iowa).

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Hmmm where have I heard this before ... Plagiarism