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j/c Any draft guru who doesn't say we should draft Blackmon is a monster and a monster, in that order.  I think the key to our draft is Hillis. If we don't re-sign him, I have a feeling we go with Richardson.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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In which case we trade out of 4 with Washington and get him at 6.
#GMSTRONG
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Assuming no one trades with Jax to jump in front of us for Richardson.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I think heckert will go after Mario Williams in free agency and will make him the highest paid DE in the history of the NFL. I believe if we stay at 4 it will be Claiborne. Then guess what move Sheldon to FS pik up Trevathon in the 4th and we have an insane defense pretty much in place for the next 5 plus years, asuperbowl Caliber defense.
So now you have your great defense so how do we fix the offense. Tannehill if he is there at 22 woo hoo. If not we address the position next year with Barkley Jones or one of those young gun QBs from Georgia and Arkansas.
If Tannehill is gone, no big deal, go bpa with a more offensive theme for the remainder of the draft other than the weakside backer spot and you are adding pieces to make your O ready for the big time QB while your defense holds down the fort.
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1. 3 1st rounders for Griffin? I guess you needed that exageration to make "a point"  2. So, you're essentially saying that we better stay with the 90% crap at QB we have right now because there is a risk that the guy we go get COULD be crap? Superb logic 3. Last but not least I'll cite walterfootball's need list for the Browns: 1. Quarterback: There are a handful of Cleveland fans in denial about this, but Colt McCoy is not a franchise quarterback. The Browns will never be a perennial playoff contender until they acquire one. As mentioned, Robert Griffin could be theirs this April. http://walterfootball.com/offseason2012cle.php
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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#GMSTRONG
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I also believe we could very well see Donovan McNabb running this team until a young QB is groomed to be the starter. Heckert, Shurmur and Chilly have all worked with him and we can probably get him for slightly above league min.
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Quote:
Who's Walter?
Walter Cherepinsky= Draftnik
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Okay, Walter has a last name but why should we listen to or care what Walter has to say?
#GMSTRONG
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Any relation to where's Waldo? 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Okay, Walter has a last name but why should we listen to or care what Walter has to say?
Like I said he is a Drafnik who happens to have his own web page. I wouldn't read to much into what he has to say, not that it's wrong, but it's really no more reliable then some Draftnik poster in our DTers community.
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Oh, he's just another schmuck...
He's quoted above like some kind of guru with the knowledge of the ancients and the Rosetta Stone of the draft board.
Just trying to keep it all in perspective.
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Oh, he's just another schmuck...
He's quoted above like some kind of guru with the knowledge of the ancients and the Rosetta Stone of the draft board.
Just trying to keep it all in perspective.
I've known him for 10 years or more. He's not a bad guy. Just another one with his opinion. He does get his information in part from other fans of teams in the League and he puts a lot of time in his site, but like I said it's his opinion more then anything else.
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Who's Walter?
He's not alone among analysts saying that Colt sucks...Ed Reed agrees too
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Who's Walter?
He's not alone among analysts saying that Colt sucks...Ed Reed agrees too
Ah - so if someone were to say our whole offense was bad, that means we're Colt lovers. But if you say Colt sucks, and reed agrees, you're right? Got it.
I myself wouldn't trade 2 first rounders plus a second to move up for a might be qb.
I would use our picks to enhance the...........get this..........the TEAM. But, that makes me a Colt lover I guess. In your opinion, anyway.
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Thanks for doing this:
2007 - JaMarcus Russell - #1 pick Bust The Raiders were awful
2007 - Brady Quinn - Trade up to #23 Bust The Browns were awful
2008 - Matt Ryan Probably good The Falcons have talent
2008 - Joe Flacco - Trade up to #18 Good The Ravens have talent
2009 - Matthew Stafford - #1 pick I like this kid,, but injury prone The Lions have talent
2009 - Mark Sanchez - Trade up to #5 IMO,, will Bust The Jets don't have much on offense
2009 - Josh Freeman - Trade up to #17 Too soon to call The Bucs have a little talent
2010 - Sam Bradford - #1 pick Probalby good, but so far ehh The Rams have some talent but were really depleted this year with injuries
2010 - Tim Tebow - Trade up to #25 Probably good The Broncos have a great coach and a great defense
2011 - Cam Newton - #1 pick early to tell, but probably good
2011 - Jake Locker - Considered a reach at #8 Early not sure
2011 - Blaine Gabbert - Trade up to #10 not sure but too early
2011 - Christian Ponder - Considered a big reach at #12 Early but looks good
I'm not all that impressed with the results apparently...LOL
Wow look, all of the QBs that you think are decent or have a future went to teams that either had talent or have added talent since the QB was drafted.. odd how that works. Which is why I didn't rate the rookies, those teams still have a year or two to add talent before a better evaluation can be made but most of them went to teams which were thin..
LOL, yeah, it is funny
Probably the only one I don't agree with you on is the jets.. I think they did have talent on Offense.
help me out here.. the year we traded our pick to them so they could take sanchez, that was manginis first year here right?
And, I think the Offense for the Jets was doing pretty well until Favre got hurt. then it went down hill quickly..
So some degree of talent was on that team the year after Sanchez was picked.
I still think that sanchez will bust out. but that's JMO..
that's another one that some fans thought we let slip away.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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To be honest Sanchez looks identical to Eli Manning a few years ago.
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To be honest Sanchez looks identical to Eli Manning a few years ago.
Maybe that's the way it will end up,,but right now, he's not looking like he's worthy of the 5th overall pick,
What's really sad is, I believe, 100%, that if we'd have drafted Sanchez, with the team we could put around him last year and the year before, we'd be talking about moving up to grab RG3..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If we had drafted Sanchez, We never would have brought in Jake Delhomme...
I can almost consider that a win...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think heckert will go after Mario Williams in free agency and will make him the highest paid DE in the history of the NFL. I believe if we stay at 4 it will be Claiborne. Then guess what move Sheldon to FS pik up Trevathon in the 4th and we have an insane defense pretty much in place for the next 5 plus years, asuperbowl Caliber defense.
So now you have your great defense so how do we fix the offense. Tannehill if he is there at 22 woo hoo. If not we address the position next year with Barkley Jones or one of those young gun QBs from Georgia and Arkansas.
If Tannehill is gone, no big deal, go bpa with a more offensive theme for the remainder of the draft other than the weakside backer spot and you are adding pieces to make your O ready for the big time QB while your defense holds down the fort.
find a WOLB and I really, really like this.
#gmstrong
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Mourg, how much Kentucky did you get to watch this year? I only saw onegame of his done on the "SEC Express" which I DVRd to watch just him. That game he was pretty unimpressive.
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I still think we would trade down if he is there at 4.
I hope so Mourg. I still think that is the best option especially with Heckert making the picks and trades.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I watched a lot of their games. Honestly, he is a solid tackler but not a big hitter. He is however excellent in coverage. Hybrid S/OLB type. Only gonna go about 6 ft even and around 230-235. I think he has very good instincts and he is one of those kids that just seems to come up with a huge play.
at worst he is a 3rd down backer which we need anyway and at best he finishes out what could be a pretty solid linebacker corps.
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Well, I sure would like it if we had an OLB who can not make a run-of-the-mill TE look like freakin Usain Bolt (see Fujita / TEN thus season.)
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To be honest Sanchez looks identical to Eli Manning a few years ago.
Sanchez is trash and I wouldn't trade a 6th round pick for him.
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To be honest Sanchez looks identical to Eli Manning a few years ago.
Sanchez is trash and I wouldn't trade a 6th round pick for him.
I would just to make him the QB3 behind Colt and laugh at him. It'd be high comedy in my household (silly USC fans)
#gmstrong
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Okay, Walter has a last name but why should we listen to or care what Walter has to say?
Like I said he is a Drafnik who happens to have his own web page. I wouldn't read to much into what he has to say, not that it's wrong, but it's really no more reliable then some Draftnik poster in our DTers community.
I've found that my thoughts align themselves with his thinking more than any other site, and I'm not the only one. In fact, I actually tend to favor his site over McShay.
It is fascinating reading how far and wide the various values placed on RG3 really are. He's gifted but limited, athletic but stiff, natural but mechanical, and the most gifted thrower I've seen in years who looks so damned wonky.
General reply...I can't agree that if we're out of the race for Griffin that such a thing won't allow another team with a perceived lesser offer to get blocked. If the Rams REALLY wanna move, they will have no shortage of partners, especially when the team that could offer the most backs out. They have so many needs that even if they can't get one guy they are assured of finding another elite guy at a position of need. It may not be as great of a deal as they wanted, but it'll still be a helluva deal for a team that just doesn't want to be in that spot.
I do know this: QB or otherwise, the Browns are going to have a big talent infusion before this season even begins both through free agency as well as the draft. That in and of itself is exciting, but no more exciting to see what Griffith could do as a Brown. We haven't had an athlete like that playing the position with those tools in decades.
Just gotta keep the fugger upright...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We may have the advantage not because we have an extra first, but because our first pick comes before everyone elses...
If St Louis asks for our #22 and we say no thanks..
Then they go to Washington, Miami, or whoever, and can't get a 2013 1st...
Wouldn't you automatically, If you REALLY want to move out of the spot that is, go back to the team with the highest pick (us at #4) and see what you can get...?
Why drop to #6 for a 2nd and change, whe nyou can drop to #4 and make sure you're getting a top guy...
I'm still holding out the chance that, Flynn and Manning go to Washington and Miami, and we can just sit back and let RG3 fall to us (if we're going after him that is)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Why drop to #6 for a 2nd and change, when you can drop to #4 and make sure you're getting a top guy...
First off...Washington's not even gonna sniff #2 for anything less than 6 and at least their 2013 First Rounder...6 to 2 for a QB is a major move...Now the difference for the Rams between 4 and 6 is HUGE if they want an ELITE talent...And that elite talent does not include Blackmon...6'0" Receivers that don't have burner speed r not considered elite...Sorry...
So...They go to 6 and most likely lose the Top 5 Elite players...
Luck
RGIII
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Then comes Blackmon...
Will they be OK with Blackmon at 6???...Who knows...But after those 5 or 6 this draft DROPS in talent level...There's not alot of ELITE to go around this year...
The Rams need to be careful with this...What they SHOULD do is take our 4 and 22...OR our 4 and 37 with one of our 2 fourth rounders and guarantee that one of Kalil or Claiborne is theirs at 4...
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I'm still holding out the chance that, Flynn and Manning go to Washington and Miami, and we can just sit back and let RG3 fall to us
Obviously that's the single best thing that can happen for us...I'd even add Seattle to that mix...Let these guys all go the FA route...And we'll know for sure before the draft as to what we need or don't need to do...
Here's a twist for ya'...
What if Minny LOVES RGIII???...They would take him since he would be light years ahead of Ponder in their eyes...Ponder was way over-drafted...Everyone with half a noodle agrees with that...Yet another reason for us to go to 2 if we really like Griffin...
U guys r so fixated on this 22 pick...Probably because we've never had 2 first rounders before...lol...In my eyes that's what I call a "Gimmee Pick"...USE THE DAMN THING AS AMMO...We do that and we still have a boatload of picks in EVERY ROUND...And as Toader said...Adding FA to the mix is gonna set us up with a serious influx of talent to what we have...And WE HAVE OUR QB...A QB who has no physical or mental limitations...
And if Tannehill shows any promise at all in his Pro Day and Team specific workouts...He won't be there at 22 for us anyways...Simply because he's a QB...He'll end up in KC-Seattle-Zona or Philly...Maybe even Dallas...11-15...
Damanshot...U need to understand drafting and trades my man...It WILL NOT take 3 first rounders to get to 2 from 4...And we will LAUGH at a 2nd or 3rd rounder to drop from a premium spot at 4 to 10...The STARTING point for that is 2013's First Rounder...U also need to understand that it is not giving up 3 first round picks if we trade to 1 or 2...The cost is TWO...The other is a SWAP...
Toader...I gotta a question about Ethics when it comes to NFL GM's and trading in the draft...
If this happened I know if I were Heckert or any other GM it would pissss me off immensely to the point I will NEVER AGAIN deal with u...
If we call the Rams and they know no other team is talking to them...Would they LIE and say we need your 22 and 37 to make the deal because we have a better offer on the table than your 4 and 22 at this point...
I don't see them doing that because that would send shock waves across the league when it's found out...
We've never been in any War Room...I'm curious what u think about that...
Go Browns!!!
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What some seem to be missing, this is a team rebuilding via the draft and if we drop down two first round picks...#4 and #22 for Griffin, it comes at a cost of stunting the rebuild program.
I still think it's going to take more than our two 1st rounders..
I don't think so....really, the article posted my Mac makes a lot of sense.
Also consider this...is it possible the Skins want Griffin and we don't? If so, we still hold the cards. We just work with the Skins. Here's how it works.
We tell the Skins to hold tight, don't bid on Griffin and try to get to #2. We will trade our pick at #4 to them....a much cheaper deal for the Skins. If somebody trys to jump in front of us to #2 or #3, we will outbid whoever, and then the skins still make the deal with us, but paying whatever it was they were going to offer the Rams...
It's worth it to the Skins to go that route and possibly get Griffin at a much cheaper cost.
The only snag would be if the Rams or Vikes actually drafted Griffin...which doesn't make much sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Probably because we've never had 2 first rounders before...lol
Last time we had 2 first round picks, the 2nd guy we picked was Brady Quinn.
Time before that it was Antonio Langham and Derrick Alexander.
Time before that was Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome.
Time before that was Steve Holden and Pete Adams. Yeah, I had to look them up too.
Time before that was Mike Phipps and Bob McKay. (Bob McKay, best known for having Mean Joe Greene kick him in the cup ........ at least I hope he wore a cup) Yeah ... I'm depressed too.
Time before that was Gary Collins and Leroy Jackson.(Jackson never played for us)
Time before that was Bobby Garrett and John Bauer. (Who??)
And that is out entire history of picking twice in the first round.
So .... once it worked out well ..... and one other time that could have maybe worked out, we lost our team. (1994 draft)
Trade the damn pick ,,, save our team!  (Yes, that's sarcasm for those who are wondering)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Since I think RG3 will fall to us naturally at #4 you're saying that RG3 is Mike Phipps! I agree, trade the damn pick!
#GMSTRONG
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Y...Can u and anyone else puter savy go look at what I just started in the Feedback Forum...
Thanks...
Go Browns!!!
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To you and the other Pro-McCoy fans:
DJ...you forget...I'm the one who started the Matt Flynn thread to discuss the possibility signing him in free agency.
DJ...you forget...I'm the one who started the Jason Campbell thread to discuss the possibility of signing him in free agency.
DJ...didn't I just say... "Now if Griffin can be had at our #4, without any extra picks, that might be acceptable if Holmgren and Heckert believe RG3 "is the one". "
Flynn is an option
Campbell is an option
McCoy is an option
RG at #4, might be an option if the Browns brain trust feel he is worthy
Are you getting any clue where I'm coming from?
I believe I place more value on the #4 and #22 pick than 95% of those talking about giving up #4 and #22....that is where I'm coming from.
I do not believe RG is worthy of our two first round draft picks...especially considering the fact that the Browns are a team attempting to rebuild via the draft.
This franchise cannot afford to just toss away first round picks, gambling that RG is going to lead the Browns to the promised land.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I personally do not think that there will be any trades and we will probably take Griffen at 4. If another team (in the top 10) can persuade us to trade that pick. We will take offers, but we should let the League know that Griffen is our guy and whom ever thinks they want to try and trade above us with a 'reasonable' offer will be trumped. So unless we see a landmark trade (see Ricky Williams) the road to Griffen will go threw us. Every year it's the same thing with trades projected at the top of the Draft, like last year nothing became of it. Many in the media assumed, because Carolina had the first pick and had so many needs that they would trade that pick. Didn't happen. This year is no different and hey it makes for high drama, but is it feasible? I think that there is more of a possibility that if a trade is made, that it will be with a team moving up to pick 4 to trade with us. That 22nd selection is much more significant then some folks are giving it credit for. A bird in hand is better then two in the woods/bush<(remember we have a pg rating on the board, so ...) It's our Ace in the hole and should 'only' be used as a trump card. No other team in the QB market can offer that. It also sets the bar for teams who might be looking to trade up. Knowing they have to not only clear that bar, but have to clear it by a good distance too. We are in the drivers seat here folks and we can either take or trade the choice to select Griffen. Some of you have a hard time seeing past all the smoke screens, but this projected trade with teams bidding for the right to draft Griffen with the 2nd or 3rd selection is nothing more then 'lose' speculation and not very well thought threw imo. Perception can be as strong as the truth
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 02/18/12 10:45 AM.
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RG at #4, might be an option if the Browns brain trust feel he is worthy
And if we think he's worthy...We will take him...U r correct sir...
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I do not believe RG is worthy of our two first round draft picks...especially considering the fact that the Browns are a team attempting to rebuild via the draft.
I'm sure the FO doesn't care what u me or any other schmuck thinks...But I can tell u this much...And u better prepare yourself for it...Cause if we like Griffin at 4...This is very likely to happen because they WILL NOT let him go elsewhere...QB's r THAT important...Rebuilding a team or not...
We WILL trade 4 and 22 if need be to get Griffin...Get used to it...Cause if we like em'...We'll do it if we need to and never look back...And we SHOULD do it...And move right along to the 37th pick...
Look Mac...If we like RGIII and it takes the 22 pick to get him...There isn't a damn player at 22 that I would rather have with whoever we took at 4 not named Griffin...We FINALLY have secured the QB that we will hitch the wagon too going forward...And WHO gives a rats ass if he doesn't work out...U HAVE to take this chance when u r so high in any draft...U need a QB...And the QB is available...What is soooo damn hard to understand about that...
One pick...A pick we wouldn't even have cept for the trade with Atlanta...IS NOT going to hinder this football team going forward...NOT ONE DAMN BIT...
Hell...In that thread I ran awhile back I and others SHOWED u what we could do in the draft and FA even if we gave up all the picks to get Luck at #1...Going to 2 for Griffin won't cost nearly as much...And we could do even more damage with what we have left...
I might just do THAT one too...Just to SHOW u again in black and white what damage we could do in FA and the draft even giving up 22 AND a 4th rounder just for grins...And take RGIII at #2...And I'd bet 4 and 22 is enuff...Hell 4 and 37 with a 4th might even do it...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,495 Likes: 146
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,495 Likes: 146 |
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And WHO gives a rats ass if he doesn't work out
dnd...Like I said, I value the #4 and #22 picks more than 95% of you who feel it's ok if we waste the picks on one player.
I value the top WR, Justin Blackmon at #4 and one of the top OTs, Mike Adams at #22, more than I value RGiii.
I value Trent Richardson or Morris Claiborne at #4 and Kendall Wright or Donta Hightower at #22 more than I value Rgiii.
Filling two positions of need is better than filling one position...one position (qb) that carries a higher bust factor than nearly any other position.
If RGiii is a bust, the damage done to this franchise could take years to overcome.
I do not want to see the Browns return to the past method of trying to build a winner...resorting to over paid free agents who under perform. Before Holmgren and Heckert arrived, the Browns tried to build a winner by over paying free agents to play in Cleveland...tell me how that worked out !
I look at the turn around the Browns defense did in one year and I can see that Holmgren's method of building the team via the draft works. The defense still needs to add some more pieces, hopefully one of our first rounders or the #37 can add to one of the positions of need on defense.
There are other ways to fill our QB needs if the front office feels there is a need to do so and I'm willing to consider all of them. Like I said, 95% might not care if the Browns spend #4 and #22 on one player...I do care...guess that makes me a 5%er.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,477 Likes: 162
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,477 Likes: 162 |
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If RGiii is a bust, the damage done to this franchise could take years to overcome.
if he is a franchise QB and you have a chance to get him and pass on it that can also take awhile to over-come...
I agree with you for the most part though... I'd like to stay at #4 and if he's there take him and if not take Richardson or Caliborne... but I can totally understand if the FO trades both our firsts to go get him...
<><
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
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There are other ways to fill our QB needs if the front office feels there is a need to do so and I'm willing to consider all of them.
Umm? Like? Signing a below AVG FA? Keep your own below AVG bum you have on the roster? I don't see many other options other then do what bad to inconsistent teams like DET, ATL and CAR did these past drafts..and that is to draft your own franchise QB when you have the opportunity to do so
Ask the Seahawks how they feel about winning those useless 8-9 games this past season and drafting 10+ now...they still don't have a QB and have no shot at drafting one without giving up WAY MORE than what we'd have to spend
You want to draft a RB and LB with 4 and 22? There's a reason their respective franchise tag number is significantly below the QB's....VALUE !!!
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
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Ask the Seahawks how they feel about winning those useless 8-9 games this past season and drafting 10+ now...they still don't have a QB and have no shot at drafting one without giving up WAY MORE than what we'd have to spend
Umm maybe we should ask the Rams and the Vikings how they feel first about drafting a 1st round QB and still drafting before us. Bradford Statistically and by the eye looked worse than McCoy this Year, Maybe they should think about drafting Griffin because 2 years after using the #1 overall pick on the "best QB in Years", they are drafting 2nd..say it out loud..The Rams with Sam Bradford are drafting Second in the 2012 NFL draft.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Mayock Says Go Get RGIII...
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