DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) O-Line Thread

Thought I'd start a thread devoted to o-line only, since we have so many areas of need and this is one of them for sure.

Don't see why we can't discuss the draft AND free agency here . . .

I'd like to start out by asking if you think the best / highest ranked Left tackles in a draft would ever refuse to play right tackle. You hear about QBs (Eli - San Diego) refusing to play somewhere, but I'm not sure if I've heard of left tackles refusing to play right tackle.

And I swear, if a discussion involving RG3 or Colt breaks out, I just might bash my head against a wall . . .

Well the O-line has two jobs, run blocking and protect the QB.

I hope the Browns don't draft Kalil.

Another question worth asking - what is our blocking scheme, and how does that affect the value of different OL we could obtain?

I see the following:

1.) Steinbach will not be back at the price we are currently paying him ($7M/year) - my guess is that he will not be back at all

2.) LT-RG will remain relatively intact - I'm not particularly a fan of this, but I think the regime will se it as "give this group another two years to gel together, and they will be a top 5 line". Mack and Thomas aren't going anywhere, and Pinkston and Lavao are guys for this regime.

3.) We will make some move to solidify the RT spot - I don't see many good FA options, so I think it will be in the draft.

We will probably not draft RT at #4 (though I would argue you should if Kalil was there). I would think H&H wouldn't see Reiff as an RT (he's a finesse LT, which isn't their normal target) -- they would like Martin as an RT (at 22?), might see Cordy Glenn as an RT at 22 (though I strongly disagree). After that you'd probably be thinking about guys like Zebrie Sanders in the 2nd or Levy Adcock in the 3rd.

Who cares about the O-Line?

I watch where the football goes.

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3.) We will make some move to solidify the RT spot - I don't see many good FA options, so I think it will be in the draft.

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I agree and have for a few years now (since Ryan Tucker).
We have tried to patch that hole with low quality FA and that hasn't worked for us.

The problem is only compounded by the fact that it might take 1-3 years for a rookie to develop into a quality starter, so we are still at step 1 even if we draft a RT prospect this April.

It looks like the Chargers are going to waive Marcus McNeill for two reasons. Number one, he is owed $10 million next season and two he can't pass a physical. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in if he can pass a physical. I don't think he can play left tackle anymore, but he should be fine on the right side.

If Levi Brown doesn't restructure his contract he will be cut as well (he is owed $17 million next season). He was originally drafted 5th overall. He's not terrible and it seems like he could be pretty good if the rest of the guys around him are good.

In the draft I have no clue.

Here's a look at the top OT prospects;

NFL Draft Scout (pre-combine) top 10 OT's;

#1) Kalil *Matt
Southern Cal
Projection, (1)
6-6, 295

#2) Reiff, *Riley 
Iowa
Projection, (1)
6-6, 300

#3) Martin, *Jonathan 
Stanford
Projection, (1)
6-6, 305

#4) Adams, Mike  
Ohio State
Projection, (1-2)
6-7' 323

#5) »Sanders, Zebrie  
Florida State
Projection, (2)
6-6, 308

#6) Massie, *Bobby  
Mississippi
Projection, (2-3)
6-6, 325

#7) Schwartz, Mitchell  
California
Projection (2-3)
6-5, 317

#8) McCants, Matt  
UAB
Projection, (3)
6-6, 309

#9) Mosley, Brandon  
Auburn
Projection (3)
6-5' 305

#10) Bergstrom, Tony  
Utah
Projection, (3-4)
6-6, 315

Listed as a OG (#4-5 OT);

Glenn, Cordy 
Georgia
Projection, (1-2)
6-6, 346

» = stock is falling.

I wouldn't mind having a guy named Zerbie.

I gotta say we are heading in the right direction with this O-Line. The "old man" of the group is Joe Thomas.... that in itself should say wonders as we aren't praying that a 30 to 33 year old will stay with us "only if he comes back." This is of course assuming Steinbach is gone. If he returns it's just that much better.

But from a long term point of view I now think it really can be developmental.

If we have Thomas - Pinkston - Mack as the starters with Lauvao as the favorite to play RG then we realistically have options. Bring in a veteran FA to compete for a spot on the right side (G/T - similar to what Womack did when he swung back and forth) and then draft the RT who will either play right away if he's a first / second round pick or a guy who will be eased into the role.

By adding a vet and drafting a RT as well ... this line is complete. From here on out we spend a mid round pick (3rd through 5th) every year on an interior linemen and make this a strength. If the new guys can unseat a current player ... it's an upgrade. If they can't - it's depth and it's only a midrounder. But imagine what our line was 4, 5, 6 years ago and then look at it today or rather what it could be by training camp. This really could be a bright spot where we are building depth and not just plugging holes in as little as a few months.

My plan? Add the right tackle when you can (late first - early second). But also add in a serviceable vet. I'd hate to see this unit derailed if we faced an injury / retirement situation again like last year (steinbach / yates).

If Adams falls to the second I wouldn't mind picking him up there... Kalil is a beast and if he's there at 4 I could see someone either wanting to trade up or us taking him to sure up the line... can't imagine taking a tackle that high though and putting him on the right side.. would be a nice set of tackles though.

I expect us to get a few linemen, but just not sure when they'll come.

i really like Swartz. I would probably spend a 4th and 3rd to get up into the 2nd and take him. Honestly he is the RT version of Joe Thomas. Would be a perfect pair of bookends.

I don't think Jeff Allen is getting his due. I think he should be ranked ahead of Zebrie Sanders for sure. I don't know that he's the 6th best tackle, but he's better than Sanders and he's definitely top 10.

Around the NFL: Making a right out of a wrong

By Steve Doerschuk

There is no “I” in team, it is said. It cannot be argued that there is no “L” in right tackle. We’re not just talking about the 10th letter in.

A team might find itself racking up “L” after “L” and “L” after “L” if it has right tackle problems. For the Browns, there has been trouble — and plenty of it — at both spots on the right side of the line.

Ryan Tucker was a good right tackle, one of the reasons the 2002 team went 9-7 and went up by 17 points in a playoff game at Pittsburgh.

After that, Tucker had trouble staying on the field.

Since that lone playoff year, Tucker, Joaquin Gonzalez, Kirk Chambers, John St. Clair, Oniel Cousins, Artis Hicks, Tony Pashos and others have been part of a right tackle parade. The second-best season in that period was 10 losses. Good grief.

It has been as bad or worse at right guard, where the visitors list has included Paul Zukauskas, Kelvin Garmon, Cosey Coleman, Seth McKinney, Rex Hadnot, Pork Chop Womack, Billy Yates and Shaun Lauvao.

At this point, it appears Lauvao or 2011 left guard Jason Pinkston will bring “continuity” to the right guard spot. Pashos may be back at right tackle, against strenuous objections from the experts who buy the tickets — but he’s aging and won’t be there much longer.

The Browns are finishing their study of massive Georgia Bulldog Cordy Glenn to conclude whether he would turn right tackle from a trouble spot into a strength.

Glenn was not a good enough left tackle to be a high first-round pick, but he is a strong enough overall line prospect to be seen as a later Round 1 candidate.

Some analysts see him as a guard, the position he played in his first three seasons at Georgia before making first-team All-SEC as a left tackle in 2011.

Analyst Mike Mayock seems convinced right tackle will be Glenn’s best pro position.

He’s certainly tall enough and heavy enough, the specifics of which will be made precise at the Combine.

It might take him a while to excel as a right tackle. None of his 50 college starts was there.

NFL Draft Scout on Glenn: “Scouts aren't only impressed with his versatility. They're left in awe at the athleticism demonstrated by the 6-5, 338-pound mountain of a man.”

The Browns might be left in a lurch unless they get that right side straightened out.

MORE FROM MAYOCK

Reports on Notre Dame wide receiver Michael Floyd suggest he will go close to where the Browns have a second first-round pick, at No. 22 overall.

Analyst Mike Mayock says Floyd “cleaned himself up on and off the field.”

Floyd was arrested three times on alcohol-related issues while at Notre Dame, most recently on a DUI charge last March.

He is tall without blazing speed. The Browns would have to convince themselves he has something Brian Robiskie lacked.

Floyd is generally viewed as the second-best receiver in the draft after Justin Blackmon.

Baylor speedster Kendall Wright is five inches shorter than Floyd, at 5-foot-10; otherwise, Wright might be No. 2.

• Mayock on Robert Griffin III:

“He’ll stay in the pocket and take hits. We all know he can run, but initially he looks to get the ball down the field.”

In Baylor’s offense, Mayock said, Griffin didn’t have to do much anticipating, throwing a ball to a receiver he expected to arrive when the ball did.

Griffin might have to talk the Browns into believing he can be a rhythm and timing guy. A huge part of his predraft interviews will be sitting with Browns coaches breaking down film.

That is likely to happen during an official visit — unless the Browns sign Matt Flynn in free agency.

• This did not sound like a compliment to Colt McCoy when Mayock analyzed the grounds under which keeping McCoy as the No. 1 quarterback:

“You’ve got to play great defense.”

ANALYZE THIS

Mayock has passed Mel Kiper as America’s draft analyst, but he whiffed a little on his 2011 predraft rankings.

His top four quarterbacks heading into last year’s Combine:

1, Blaine Gabbert; 2, Jake Locker; 3, Cam Newton; 4, Ryan Mallett.

His No. 5 spot was a four-way tie among Andy Dalton, Ricky Stanzi, Colin Kaepernick and Pat Devlin.

On the other hand, Mayock also made some fairly astute projections as to the projected order of the 2012 draft. A year ago at this time, these were Mayock’s top threes:

• Quarterback: Andrew Luck, Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill.

• Running back: Trent Richardson, David Wilson, Lamar Miller.

• Wide receiver: Blackmon, Floyd, Wright.

That’s pretty much how they stack up after their final years of college ball.

AFC NORTH SHUFFLE

Key unrestricted free agents their teams might be worried about:

• Ravens: RB Ray Rice, C Matt Birk, G Ben Grubbs, OLB Jarrett Johnson, DB Haruki Nakamura.

Grubbs, going on 28, was a first-round draft pick in 2007. Whereas the Ravens will find a way to keep Rice, they wouldn’t consider the franchise tag for Grubbs.

Grubbs blocked in a West Coast system last year and has been an effective spot starter for four years. He projects as an upgrade for certain teams with right tackle issues.

• Bengals: RB Cedric Benson, DE Jonathan Fanene, CB Kelly Jennings, DE Frostee Rucker, PK Mike Nugent, LB Manny Lawson, WR Jerome Simpson, OT Anthony Collins.

• Browns: RB Peyton Hillis, LB D’Qwell Jackson, DB Mike Adams, PK Phil Dawson, CB Dimitri Patterson.

If Patterson leaves, the Browns probably will be forced to spend a high pick on a cornerback.

n Steelers: CB Bryant McFadden, G Trai Essex, G Doug Legursky, OT Max Starks.

Restricted free agent Mike Wallace isn’t going anywhere.

Shopping is under way. Buying begins at 4 p.m. March 13.

CUPCAKE OR MEATGRINDER?

The Browns’ 2012 schedule will include:

• One Super Bowl winner: Giants (road).

• The AFC North: Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati went 6-0 against the Browns and reached the 2011 playoffs.

• Just one other 2011 playoff team: Denver (road).

• Six teams that were 7-9 or 8-8: Chargers (home), Chiefs (home), Eagles (home), Cowboys (road), Raiders (road).

The aforementioned Broncos made the playoffs at 8-8.

• Three fellow 2011 sufferers: Bills (6-10, home); Redskins (5-11, home); Colts (2-14, road).

Sounds like a real ... cupgrinder?

EXTRA POINTS

• Time flies. Alabama running back Trent Richardson was born shortly before Bill Belichick opened his first training camp as head coach of the Browns.

Mel Kiper pegs Richardson as the third-best player in the draft behind Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck and USC left tackle Matt Kalil.

Kiper has LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne at No. 4 and Blackmon at No. 5.

• Time flies. Jim Brown, who has faded from view in Berea, turned 76 on Friday. He was a 28-year-old running back on the Browns’ last league championship team. Lou “The Toe” Groza wore No. 76 on that team.

If the Browns select Cordy Glenn at #22..its a very wise and intelligent pick.
Its not glamourous by any means but its the how you rebuild a expansion quality offense.
Georgia is a very underated football factory for the pros. Great talent comes out of there(except Massaqoiu).
I don't think any other team has gone through as many limp RT's as the Browns have in the last 10 years.
as a matter of fact the Browns should remove Lavaou and find someone that isn't penality prone like him and can actually get to the 2nd level.

Hasn't someone else been through this with you before? Didn't Lauvao have something like six penalties all year?

Here's a look at this years OG position:

NFLDS (pre-combine) top 10 OG's;

#1) DeCastro, *David 
Stanford
Projection, (1)
6-5, 312

#2) Glenn, Cordy
(#4 or #5 OT)  
Georgia
Projection (1-2)
6-6, 346

#3) Washington, *Brandon  
Miami
Projection, (2)
6-3, 325

#4) Osemele, Kelechi (OT ?)
Iowa State
Projection, (2)
6-5, 333

#5) Zeitler, Kevin  
Wisconsin
Projection, (2)
6-4, 315

# 6) Silatolu, Amini  
Midwestern State
Projection, (2-3)
6-3, 318

#7) Kelemete, Senio  
Washington
Projection (2-3)
6-4, 300

#8) Brooks, Brandon  
Miami (OHIO)
Projection (3)
6-5, 353

# 9) Nix, Lucas  
Pittsburgh
Projection (4-5)
6-5, 310

#10) Johnson, Rishaw  
California (PA)
Projection, (5)
6-4, 309

I think this could be the best OG class in years and perhaps ever with as many as possibly 7 projected in the first 2 rounds.
With that said I don't think we will be drafting one of these prospects in the first two rounds with exception to Cordy Glenn who I think should be listed as an (right) OT anyway.

Btw; NFL Draft Scout is used by (Rob Rang) CBS for their data base and prospect rankings. They are also closely in line with my rankings, but then who am I LOL.

I stopped reading after " right takle parade. " Seriously somebody needs to create a user account with the identity " right tackle parade"

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Also, Brandon Brooks, the OG from Miami, was a man amongst boys at the E/W Shrine game.

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LOL, I think at 6' 5" and 350+ lbs he is a man amongst boys nearly anywhere on this planet

This just goes to show the quality of this years class. Most years Brooks would probably be in the top 3-5 OG's.

Does anybody have senior bowl footage of Cordy Glenn at RT? I'd be interested in seeing it.

From the footage I've seen - the dude falls on his face way too often, he has a sort of forward lunge move, and if the defender avoids it, he just falls on his face without making any contact -- it happens way way too often:

Examples:

The Browns were 28th in the NFL a dominating like 23 1st downs running to the right side in 2011.
The left side of the o-line had 34 which placed the Browns 20th.
31st with 8 rushes resulting in a 1st down to the right side.
4 TDS which made the Browns dead last in the NFL.
its funny how some talk like Lauvao is this awesome road grading OG that pancakes defenders on a regular basis.
the eye test tells me that actually Pinkston is a better OG. In fact,when the Browns did pull,they pulled Pinkston more..rarely did I see Lauvao pull.....rarely did I see Lauvao destroy someone at the point of attack and then go downfield and hit a LB.
The Browns run game and pass protection were both equally porous in 2011.
yet Lauvao is some kind of stud upfront

Were you bitten by Shawn Lauvao as a child or something? Did he push you down and steal your lunch money? Seriously dude..

The Browns OL had to compensate the loss of their 2nd best man in Steiny, had 2 1st time starters and had some pacthwork to do at RT with Pashos half-injured throughout the 1st half of the season...on top of all that, they had to learn a new system too...and yes they played bad...and that had to be expected...BUT

they started getting better with the SEA game...Pinky and Mack got comfortable, giving some stability...I saw even Lauvao and Pashos "improve" a bit, but their game was still iffy, esp. Pashos' ...Lauvao gets the benefit of the doubt because he's young, but I still would not hand him a starting job for 2012...sign/draft competition for his job...for me he's somewhat the OL version of McCoy but his game has more upside and he has some versatility....we only have to find out if he's good enough to be the 5th man or is better suited to be 6th/7th

My main point is: this OL got better during the sesason that's why the "young core" deserves to stay together...we're finally seeing a real building plan for both sides of the LOS and some people whine about the growing pains that come with it...I expect the OL to pick up their game from late last season and get even better during 2012

Remember also that Alex Mack had an appendectomy and didn't miss a game. I'm guessing it took a while for him to get back to full strength.

Yeah, I would expect the Browns to look in the 3rd/4th round for a RT type.

We could also look at a young veteran in free agency.

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we're finally seeing a real building plan for both sides of the LOS and some people whine about the growing pains that come with it...I expect the OL to pick up their game from late last season and get even better during 2012

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Amen to that.

Lauvao at RG was not used to pull that much and that's pretty typical of most offensive designs, but there is another play where he was able to show me something ... the screen pass.

I thought he showed exceptionally physical ability in blocking a moving defender and on most occasions burying that defender to the ground, displaying a killer instinct' that appeals to me with in an OL.

There is something to work with and build on once Lauvao is more mentally focused and acting in stead of reacting to what the defense is doing.

Meh, you develop OG's, so you don't have to use your high draft picks on them. If they have the physical skills, then I think that they are worthy of the investment.

Pinkston and Lauvao, where inexperienced in 2011, yet they where starting over veteran backups. Something here tells me that this team believes that they are worthy and worth the time invested to develop them both.

It's much easier to throw a rookie or inexperience player in at OG, then to put them in there on the flanks.

I think that we could have the makings of a pretty good young OL that can grow together.

We haven't drafted or found a replacement for Pashos threw FA and to this point we don't have a young OT to develop or more appropriately 'groom' him.

Until we do, then no QB, RB, TE or WR is going to reach their respective potential.

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It's much easier to throw a rookie or inexperience player in at OG, then to put them in there on the flanks.

I think that we could have the makings of a pretty good young OL that can grow together.

We haven't drafted or found a replacement for Pashos threw FA and to this point we don't have a young OT to develop or more appropriately 'groom' him.

Until we do, then no QB, RB, TE or WR is going to reach their respective potential.

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Absolutely agree with all of this. I think we're going to have to find our replacement for Pashos in the draft. One thing I have realized is that guards can be plugged in, but tackle is a skilled position, and finding good ones is very hard to do. We've been so many terrible ones too.

I don't think our solution for RT will come in FA, as the only viable option I see is Kareem McKenzie, and he's too old anyway. I'd like to draft someone who could handle that right side for years to come........

(Of course I've been saying this since Kevin Shaffer left, but nothing seems to change..........) And that RT position has a huge affect on our run and pass game. While it's nice that Colt can see the pass rushers coming at him (unlike our QBs could before Joe Thomas/after Ross Verba. I think LJ Shelton......... was that LT of ours), but still, the right side of the line collapses all the time, hurrying throws.

And we don't see to get much push on that side running the ball either.

I have some faith in Lavauo, and I like Pinkston; but they should be kept at the guard position. We need to find a legit guy, 1st three rounds of the draft (Unless some prayer is answered in FA)

I'm just not gaga over Shaun Lauvao.Some of you are so used to "growing pains" by this franchise,its what you expect and nothing more.
whatever happened to getting players that can perform at a high level without the training wheels or binky.
The Saints have to choose between Carl Nicks or Marquis Colston to give a big contract too.
If they opt for Colston,then the Heckart should do all that he can to acquire Carl Nicks.
This franchise for decades has lacked that mauling OG that can drive block a guy into next week and keep a QB upright in pass protection.
Nothing I see in Lauvao makes me think he's the answer at RG.
He might be "scrappy"..but I just don't it where he simply dominates his man.
If the Browns signed Carl Nicks,none of you would be complaining.
If you can upgrade a position,you do it.
you don't wait and see if he can get past the "growing pains".
too many players since 99 have killed this franchise never getting past "growing pains"