|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,921
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,921 |
Yet we had 2 LT leave us to go on to oplay in and win Super Bowls with different teams.
Those guys would be Lomas Brown and Roman Oben. We also had Shaun O'Hara who won a Super Bowl as starting Center with the Giants.
We had a lot of quality players ...... we just never put them all together, and Couch had some flaws that hurt the OL as well. Add in that we went after crap RBs for the most part for 7 or 8 years .... and we had major problems beyond the OL.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,336
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,336 |
Quote:
Yet we had 2 LT leave us to go on to oplay in and win Super Bowls with different teams.
Those guys would be Lomas Brown and Roman Oben. We also had Shaun O'Hara who won a Super Bowl as starting Center with the Giants.
We had a lot of quality players ...... we just never put them all together, and Couch had some flaws that hurt the OL as well. Add in that we went after crap RBs for the most part for 7 or 8 years .... and we had major problems beyond the OL.
Shaun O'Hara's problem for us was that we kept trying to put a center at guard. Picking up Jeff Faine was so stupid when we already had O'Hara.......... And just moving a center to guard isn't always going to work out. O'Hara was good, better than Jeff Faine, lol. At least with the Giants he was.
I've never heard of Lomas Brown, that musta been before me. I started really following the Browns with Ross Verba. So Roman Oben was sorta before me too I think. He's always doing interviews on the NY Sports Radio postgame shows for the NY teams. Love the guy.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
whatever happened to getting players that can perform at a high level without the training wheels or binky.
The vast majority of the time, players that come in and play at a high level immediately are:
A. Not drafted in the 3rd round
and
B. Put in a position where they have talent around them that lets them excel...
and
C. Aren't asked to play a position different than the one they typically played in college.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
I'm just not gaga over Shaun Lauvao.Some of you are so used to "growing pains" by this franchise,its what you expect and nothing more.
whatever happened to getting players that can perform at a high level without the training wheels or binky.
The Saints have to choose between Carl Nicks or Marquis Colston to give a big contract too.
If they opt for Colston,then the Heckart should do all that he can to acquire Carl Nicks.
This franchise for decades has lacked that mauling OG that can drive block a guy into next week and keep a QB upright in pass protection.
Nothing I see in Lauvao makes me think he's the answer at RG.
He might be "scrappy"..but I just don't it where he simply dominates his man.
If the Browns signed Carl Nicks,none of you would be complaining.
If you can upgrade a position,you do it.
you don't wait and see if he can get past the "growing pains".
too many players since 99 have killed this franchise never getting past "growing pains"
Who's gaga?
I don't think that there is a fan who would not like to have a RG like Nicks, but we did not have the luxury of a player of his caliber to allow us to groom one of our Guards until they where seasoned, but the experience gained will help this offense going forward no matter if we where to bring in a pro bowl caliber Guard or not.
Your not going to find a prospect most of the time in the mid to late rounds who if he is put in the game, you are not going to experience growing pains and that doesn't just apply to an OL.
It's a part of the process of building a team and I can find , but one fault in that process of building a young OL that can develop and grow into a unit, that can be a stable interracial part of this team.
After years of neglect and FA patch work ideas of how to put together that group up front. I am happy with the direction we are taking now to get to the point of continuity which in turn gives us the stability I think you need to have on our OL.
It's a work in progress. A process in witch we appear to be on the right path for the long term.
It's too easy to live in the moment and lose sight of the future.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
If they opt for Colston,then the Heckart should do all that he can to acquire Carl Nicks.
He did...sort of
Heckert drafted his own Carl Nicks last draft in the 5th round in Pinkston...the same round Nicks was drafted in...and in fact they were very similar prospects...big road grader G/RT tweener...you know why no one outside of New Orleans knew Carl Nicks when he started 13 games as a rook? Because he took his lumps then....3 more year as a starting G for a potent Offense (and blocking for a brainy QB who gets rid of the ball only helped his market value) and this former late 5th rounder is considered the best FA OL available...funny how this works, huh?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Why let facts get in the way of a perfectly good rant though? 
Speaking of which, where's akronjoe been?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,784
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,784 |
Quote:
the eye test tells me that actually Pinkston is a better OG
Like I said before ask your seeing eye dog what he see's, or try watching thew game with your eyes open. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
2012 Free Agency Outlook: Offensive Line By Dave Kolonich OBR Reporter Posted Feb 20, 2012 The right-side of the Browns offensive line struggled throughout the 2011 season. As free agency and the draft approach, answers to the Browns line issues could be a deal away.In some ways, it’s 2007 all over again in Cleveland. From the battering of a diminutive quarterback to the diva outbursts of an overhyped offensive talent back to a coach who appears to be swimming upstream, it’s like the Browns haven’t moved an inch in five years. Heading into the 2012 offseason, it appears that yet again veteran guard Eric Steinbach could be the glue that bonds the Browns’ offensive line, at least according to Team President Mike Holmgren. Although certainly younger talent exists in All-Pro Joe Thomas and Alex Mack, Steinbach’s back injury forced the Browns to insert rookie Jason Pinkston into the starting lineup in 2011. The results were mixed, as Pinkston proved durable, yet was overmatched at times – particularly in terms of pass protection. While the Browns received maximum value with Pinkston – a 5th round draft pick – it’s not even clear that left guard will be the Pittsburgh product’s primary position. As evidenced by Colt McCoy’s itchy trigger finger and Peyton Hillis’ Madden Curse of a season, the Browns have bigger issues on their offensive – primarily on the right side. Right guard Shawn Lauvao, one of GM Tom Heckert’s 2010 draft picks, also proved durable yet inconsistent. Right tackle Tony Pashos was a steep upgrade from John St. Clair, but could not stay healthy for most of the season. Which brings us back to Steinbach. Ideally – at least as Holmgren’s thinking suggests – Steinbach is fully healed from his back injury and should regain his starting spot at left guard. Steinbach’s return could shift Pinkston to right tackle – unless Heckert invests another draft pick on his offensive line. In theory, these moves make sense, as right tackle is probably a more natural fit for Pinkston. Assuming that Lauvao continues to progress, the Browns’ line could organically improve in 2012. Of course, this bit of logic is predicated on the idea that Steinbach remains healthy and can return to form. Although it’s worth noting that Steinbach has regressed in his last two years of action. Never a powerful blocker, Steinbach relied more on technique and veteran craft to survive during his first two years in Cleveland. However, 2009 and 2010 showed glimpses of an undersized lineman who was merely surviving against more athletic talent. While Steinbach’s contributions to the Browns have been significant – particularly in the manner of bringing along both Thomas and Mack into the league – the veteran guard may soon become another liability on a Browns’ line that needs to improve. Considering that Heckert has already established a precedent of selecting an offensive lineman in each of his two Cleveland drafts, we can probably assume 2012 will follow order. However, with the tenuous state of both Steinbach and Pashos, perhaps Heckert also reaches for a free agent to bolster the line. NOT GOING TO HAPPENCarl Nicks When a player like Nicks reaches the open market, the value of NFL free agency is validated. Nicks is probably the best player in the league at his position, has played for a championship team and is only 27 years old in a league where linemen can thrive into their early 30’s. Nicks is also 6’5, 350 lbs., yet is an amazing interior pass protector. The exact thing that Nicks excels at is one of the problems that plagued the 2011 Browns – protecting inside pass rushes. Both Pinkston and Mack were continually victimized by opposing defenses who aimed additional rushers at the heart of the Browns’ line. Watching Nicks continually give Drew Brees a clean pocket for the past few years gives one visions of a Browns’ offense where the quarterback doesn’t have to settle for the quickest pass option. Of course, any potential Nicks signing will cost money. A lot of money. There is also the chance that the Saints re-sign their All-Pro guard once a new deal is done for Brees. However…. IF ONLY PHIL SAVAGE WERE STILL AROUNDCarl Nicks Can you only imagine if the 2007 time machine was real? After re-re-re negotiating Braylon Edwards’ contract, a 2012 Savage would easily throw 75 million dollars at Nicks. But then again, just imagine what he would do with those two first round picks the Browns are sitting on. FOR THE RIGHT PRICEBen Grubbs Mike Briesel The Browns probably missed their chance to grab a premier free agent last season when Marshall Yanda re-signed with the Ravens. Yanda has completely dominated the Browns’ Ahtyba Rubin over the past two seasons. However, because of the money invested in Yanda, the Ravens are unlikely to re-sign Grubbs – who is a solid pass protector. Briesel plays with a nasty demeanor and could bring a much needed attitude to the right side of the Browns’ line. However, it’s always a gamble for teams to invest money in offensive linemen coming from zone blocking schemes. While Houston’s running game is perhaps the best in the league, it’s unclear if Briesel is simply a product of an effective system. BUYER BEWAREKareem McKenzie Jared Gaither Evan Mathis Demetrius Bell Perhaps the entire free agent group of offensive linemen could fall under the characterization of “injury specials.” Since linemen get beat on every single play, there is virtually no such thing as a “healthy” lineman. Throw in several years of this abuse and the above list is indicative of the best talent available. However, McKenzie, Gaither and Bell would be upgrades over Pashos – assuming that these players remain relatively healthy. Bell in particular was impressive before injuries ruined his 2011 season. SHURMUR SPECIALJacob Bell Did you think we would stop at Danny Amendola? It could be a 2010 Rams reunion in Cleveland next season. And wait for it – Bell is a Cleveland native. That PD puff piece will write itself. THE PICKOver the past two off seasons, Heckert has stuck to his pledge of building the Browns through the draft. However, now two of those players – Lauvao and Pinkston – will have to be counted on to bolster the offensive line in 2012. If Pinkston is deemed a suitable right tackle prospect, then it would appear unlikely the Browns draft an offensive linemen in April’s early rounds. Likewise, it doesn’t make a lot of sense for the Browns to throw money at a free agent lineman – unless the market for Nicks is not as vibrant as it would appear. The rest of the free agent candidates come with injury risks – similar to 2010’s signing of Pashos. Obviously, the ideal solution would come in the draft – probably in the middle to late rounds as Heckert’s history has suggested. Otherwise, look for Jacob Bell to fill in for an injured Pashos this November, while Pinkston slides back over to left guard to relieve a hobbled Steinbach. obr
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
dub...good article...thanks for sharing Quote:
As evidenced by Colt McCoy’s itchy trigger finger and Peyton Hillis’ Madden Curse of a season, the Browns have bigger issues on their offensive – primarily on the right side. Right guard Shawn Lauvao, one of GM Tom Heckert’s 2010 draft picks, also proved durable yet inconsistent. Right tackle Tony Pashos was a steep upgrade from John St. Clair, but could not stay healthy for most of the season.
I have said it before and will say it again...your QB (WRs, TEs)will never reach their potential if the offensive line does not provide the time and space necessary to deliver an accurate pass...
...and your RBs will not reach their potential if the offensive line cannot run block.
The common denominator is...the offensive line.
The heart and soul of any offense is the offensive line.
Personally, I have grown tired of watching Browns QBs running for their lives because one or more of the Browns Olineman got beat at the line of scrimmage.
I enjoy watching offensive line play and appreciate the work they do. I focused on the Patriots Oline a couple times in the playoffs and it is unreal the amount of time they provided Tom Brady with..no not all the time, but most of the time.
If only the Browns QBs could have that amount of time to go through their progressions and deliver a pass.
Good offensive line play helps the skilled position players perform at a higher level.
..."superior" offensive line play wins championships!
Quote:
Ideally – at least as Holmgren’s thinking suggests – Steinbach is fully healed from his back injury and should regain his starting spot at left guard. Steinbach’s return could shift Pinkston to right tackle – unless Heckert invests another draft pick on his offensive line.
In theory, these moves make sense, as right tackle is probably a more natural fit for Pinkston. Assuming that Lauvao continues to progress, the Browns’ line could organically improve in 2012.
In the past, I have pointed out the fact that Pinkston played some RT but mostly LT (3yrs+) during his time at Pitt. If Steinbach comes back, I look for Pinkston to be moved to RT, replacing Pashos.
There are a number of OGs available in this draft with no less than 5 projected as 2nd rounders, after David DeCastro and Cordy Glenn who are projected as 1st round talent.
If the Browns feel that Pinkston can handle the RT spot, it makes sense to add more talent at OG in this draft or free agency. Stenie is aging and now is the time to search for a replacement.
Another option I have considered...Pashos moving to OG. I have never seen him play OG but if he has lost the quickness to play RT, he may be a good prospect to play OG. The guy is strong and has the size at 6-6, 325 to be a road grader inside...but can he stay healthy, playing inside???...just an idea..
Quote:
Of course, any potential Nicks signing will cost money. A lot of money. There is also the chance that the Saints re-sign their All-Pro guard once a new deal is done for Brees.
Free agency...I'm not a big fan of free agency unless there is good talent available that is not over priced.
I am big fan of building the offensive line via the draft and would prefer to see Heckert add another young Olineman as high in the draft as the team can afford. ( 2nd, 3rd or 4th round)
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
I would prefer that we up grade the OT position with a rookie OT prospect that can be groomed for the RT position.
Hopefully we can get another year out of Pashos, but even the FO, surly had to see that it was a debacle at RT when he was injured and depth was sorely lacking there.
Stieny won't be around much longer and I would prefer we leave Pinkston at OG even if we keep Stieny.
I would rather we use Stieny at RT if need be. In years past he was the backup to JT at LT IIRC.
Maybe your Correct about moving Pinkston to RT, but if that's the case, then I hope that it's because we think that he will be the long term solution there and not simply holding down the position for the lack of a better option. Ie; plan B.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Yea, I'm not versed enough in OL play to know if/how well it would work to move some of the pieces around.. I just know that we need at least 1 new starter and at least 1 new depth OL.. and we need to get the young guys into their permanent position and let them start building come chemistry.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557 |
I like 1-4 and believe this group has the potential to be the best line in the league. WE just need that 5th to grow with the group.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
I like 1-4 and believe this group has the potential to be the best line in the league. WE just need that 5th to grow with the group.
I agree that we have a good young core if not a complete one. Anyway agree with our building process.
Step 1 plant the seeds. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
Quote:
I would prefer that we up grade the OT position with a rookie OT prospect that can be groomed for the RT position.
Hopefully we can get another year out of Pashos, but even the FO, surly had to see that it was a debacle at RT when he was injured and depth was sorely lacking there.
Stieny won't be around much longer and I would prefer we leave Pinkston at OG even if we keep Stieny.
I would rather we use Stieny at RT if need be. In years past he was the backup to JT at LT IIRC.
Maybe your Correct about moving Pinkston to RT, but if that's the case, then I hope that it's because we think that he will be the long term solution there and not simply holding down the position for the lack of a better option. Ie; plan B.
Let's talk about a realistic scenario that is being discussed in QB threads...
...let's say the Browns used their #4 and #22 on a QB...how do the Browns improve their Oline if the first round picks are gone?
Realistically, the Browns still have other needs at WR and on defense that would likely take precedent over the Oline...our 2nd round pick and 3rd round picks would likely go toward filling the defensive needs and maybe a WR.
I mentioned that the OG class in this draft is deep which means the Browns could use their 5th round pick for a OG. The other possibility is free agency.
Given this scenario, what would you do to upgrade the Oline?
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I didn't realize there was a rule this year that says we can only take Oline in the 1st round...?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,535
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,535 |
I'm not a fan of trading away the 4 and 22. But if they did, there is still a way to do what they need to do.. Free Agency
There are Olinemen and WRs available in FA...
There is also the hope that guys like Lauveo and Pinkston have learned and will come in better prepared to be what we need.
the hole then is RT... We should be able to find one of those later in the draft or FA.
So it can be done. but I don't think it's that simple. it's gonna take more than the 4 and 22 to move up to get a QB like RG3.. it's probably going to take that and our 2nd rounder and maybe our 3rd or 4th...
That essentially slows the building process through the draft for a year.. at least.
And that also adds a bunch to the CAP..
At the end of the day, if the QB you pick after that trade busts.. the team is a mess for another 2 or more years
Big risk.., I wouldn't do it,, but I don't run a team
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
I would prefer that we up grade the OT position with a rookie OT prospect that can be groomed for the RT position.
Hopefully we can get another year out of Pashos, but even the FO, surly had to see that it was a debacle at RT when he was injured and depth was sorely lacking there.
Stieny won't be around much longer and I would prefer we leave Pinkston at OG even if we keep Stieny.
I would rather we use Stieny at RT if need be. In years past he was the backup to JT at LT IIRC.
Maybe your Correct about moving Pinkston to RT, but if that's the case, then I hope that it's because we think that he will be the long term solution there and not simply holding down the position for the lack of a better option. Ie; plan B.
Let's talk about a realistic scenario that is being discussed in QB threads...
...let's say the Browns used their #4 and #22 on a QB...how do the Browns improve their Oline if the first round picks are gone?
Realistically, the Browns still have other needs at WR and on defense that would likely take precedent over the Oline...our 2nd round pick and 3rd round picks would likely go toward filling the defensive needs and maybe a WR.
I mentioned that the OG class in this draft is deep which means the Browns could use their 5th round pick for a OG. The other possibility is free agency.
Given this scenario, what would you do to upgrade the Oline?
Firstly I don't consider that scenario realistic. On the contrary ... I believe it to be on the extreme side of speculation. No other team can match a reasonable offer as well as we can and that 22nd selection should only be put on the table in an extreme case and set of circumstances. I would offer a first in 2013 before I would offer up our trump card and Ace in the whole.
With that said, I agree that in that scenario it is far less likely that we will use the rest of our picks in the first 3 rounds on a OT prospect. Another reason why I am not in favor of trading away our top selections.
I do like a couple of prospects after round 2 and I would prefer that we had the use of all of our picks to use on one of them.
I think that if that scenario comes to pass, then I am keeping my fingers crossed that we sign a proven talent at WR. We already have complimentary receivers and that's basically what you have left after the top 3 or 4 WR comes off the board, so I would strongly target that position in FA.
We could still find some talent in round 5 on the OL as we did with Pinkston last year, but the more picks that get traded away then the more unlikely I think it becomes that we land a good prospect in this draft to groom for that position this year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
If we're trading up for a QB, it better be Luck, that's my opinion...
I'm fine with taking Griffin at 4, but I don't feel he's of the same calibur as Luck...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,815
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,815 |
I can't imagine the Browns drafting a OG when they have three in the fold. Now if they release or otherwise pass on Steinbach, the scenario can change.
It is not a critical need. On the other hand, RT would be a logical upgrade.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I was referring strictly to drafting a RT...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
If we're trading up for a QB, it better be Luck, that's my opinion...
I'm fine with taking Griffin at 4, but I don't feel he's of the same calibur as Luck...
I don't think that Griffen is as ready a prospect to step in and take the rains.
I would have no problem with sitting him for a year and I don't care what round he is picked in.
If we select him it will be for his potential and Holmgren is already on record as saying that this is the way he thinks all young QB's should be handled.
We are committed to our system from top to bottom. This offense will take any rookie QB time to learn and I think the fact that Luck has been in a system like the one we run, makes him more ready to start as a rookie. I'm not so sure the rest fall into that category.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
From the beginning of the thread: Quote:
And I swear, if a discussion involving RG3 or Colt breaks out, I just might bash my head against a wall . . .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
Quote:
I didn't realize there was a rule this year that says we can only take Oline in the 1st round...?
osu...there is "a lot" you don't get !
Obviously, you did not read my post carefully...there will be WR needs as well as DEFENSIVE NEEDS.
If the Browns spend their two first round picks on a qb...the other needs do not go away...they get pushed down the priority list, meaning they will have to be addressed in other ways.
You can either contribute your thoughts on the Oline needs might be addressed, or you can move on.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
Quote:
Firstly I don't consider that scenario realistic. On the contrary ..
FL...it is only being discussed by everyone from the local sports media (and fans) to the national sports media...claiming all the Browns have to do is give up their two first round picks and RGIII is ours.
I'm against such a costly move to fill the QB position because there are just too many other holes on offense and defense that need to be addressed.
Whether any of us believe "it is realistic" that the Browns are going to spend their first round picks on a qb is beside the point...it is a possibility.
The most glaring need on the Browns Oline is at RT. Four ways to address that need..
1)..move Pinkston to RT when Stenie returns.
2)..free agency...I have not even looked at who is available.
3)..draft a RT in the 4th or 5th round.
4)..keep Pashos for another year and cross you fingers.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,098 |
An alternative would be to sign defense or a Wr in free agency. Then we could use our 2nd or 3rd round pick on Oline.
You can't teach someone something they think they know
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,569
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,569 |
1. Pinkston wasn't drafted to play RT,and I doubt Stieny returns.
2.IDK either
3.If quality RTs were available in rds.4 or 5,then every team would have 2 or 3.
4.Not a viable option.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
Quote:
An alternative would be to sign defense or a Wr in free agency. Then we could use our 2nd or 3rd round pick on Oline.
jester...not gonna happen...use the 2nd and 3rd rounders on Oline.
If the Browns spend the first round picks on the QB position, all the draft priorities get pushed down the list. JMHO, but I believe the Oline needs will get pushed completely off the list of priorities and the Browns will utilize the option #1 that I posted above.
The Browns offense needs at least one WR and a good one might be had in the second round.
The Browns defense needs a CB to take Sheldon Brown's position who might be moved to safety.
With NFL offenses turning more and more to the pass, you can't have too many "good" CBs. They are hard to find and are a high priority for many NFL teams.
The Defense also needs a DE...who is good against the run but also has the speed to get after the QB, would be ideal....just one problem...very hard to find in the later part of the draft.
WR, CB and DE needs would have to fight it out for priority over the Browns next 3 picks, #s 37, 68, 100, 118.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
the FA list (especially at OT) is not promising (to say the least)
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
and it rarely is. You can get OGs in FA and have to pay them a lot of money. you can almost never get OTs in FA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
and it rarely is. You can get OGs in FA and have to pay them a lot of money. you can almost never get OTs in FA.
unless they play like Shaffer, St.Clair, Pashos, etc.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14,069 |
For years, the Browns front office has attempted to fill offensive line needs via free agency.
Heckert also went the free agent route signing Pashos to fill RT.
Steinbach has been a "good" free agent hire, but for he most part, free agent Olineman have not worked out well for the Browns since their return in 99.
There will be more veterans available as teams try to rework contracts. For example...I just read that the Packers center, Scott Wells could be cut due to a disagreement over his value...he wants paid top 5 money for centers and it does not look like the Packers are thinking the same, concerning Wells value.
There could be other good Olineman who might be available if the Browns pay the price. No, the Browns do not need a center such as Wells.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,098
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,098 |
You asked for options so I gave you one, then you dismiss it. If we sign a Wr in FA and a player on defense then yes I can see oline being taken in the 2nd/3rd round (I would go 3rd because I think that we can get a pretty decent RT in the 3rd). Just as likely as us using our 2 1st round draft picks to move up to #2 to take RGIII. I might even argue our taking an o-lineman in one of the 1st 3 rounds is more likely (IMO).
You can't teach someone something they think they know
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
Firstly I don't consider that scenario realistic. On the contrary ..
FL...it is only being discussed by everyone from the local sports media (and fans) to the national sports media...claiming all the Browns have to do is give up their two first round picks and RGIII is ours.
I'm against such a costly move to fill the QB position because there are just too many other holes on offense and defense that need to be addressed.
Whether any of us believe "it is realistic" that the Browns are going to spend their first round picks on a qb is beside the point...it is a possibility.
The most glaring need on the Browns Oline is at RT. Four ways to address that need..
1)..move Pinkston to RT when Stenie returns.
2)..free agency...I have not even looked at who is available.
3)..draft a RT in the 4th or 5th round.
4)..keep Pashos for another year and cross you fingers.
And there all idiots.
I would love to play poker against those folks. 
Not one team can offer better value with any round selection (4, 37, 68 ect....) and we have an extra 4th round pick too.
We don't 'need' to use our 22nd selection to have a 'better' offer on the table. We also have a first round pick next year witch is not worth what the 22nd pick is today, but is still all another team can offer.
Also the 4th selection in a trade scenario is far more appealing then the rest can offer.
As I have stated ... Perception can be as strong as the truth. The truth can be a very persuasive tool. The truth is that we hold the cards to offer the better deal in any trade up scenario. It may or may not be enough to deter any such trade, but at the end of the day ... We still hold the cards, with or without throwing in the 22nd selection.
Imo we would be fools to lay all of our cards on the table, regardless of how much we like Griffen.
My point is that it would be futile for a team to get into a bidding war with us over trying to trade above us, because it's going to cost them too much if we choose to bid against them. It would cost them far less to persuade us to trade our 4th selection instead..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Perception can be as strong as the truth. The truth can be a very persuasive tool. The truth is that we hold the cards to offer the better deal in any trade up scenario. It may or may not be enough to deter any such trade, but at the end of the day ... We still hold the cards, with or without throwing in the 22nd selection.
Imo we would be fools to lay all of our cards on the table, regardless of how much we like Griffen.
My point is that it would be futile for a team to get into a bidding war with us over trying to trade above us, because it's going to cost them too much if we choose to bid against them. It would cost them far less to persuade us to trade our 4th selection instead..
I agree and will keep banging on this drum with you. I think the only 'other' team that realistically can trade up for RGIII is Washington and they would have to overpay to do it (#6, #39, 1st rounder in 2013 + lower picks). And, they would still know that we can easily trump that trade if we so wanted (though I would hope we would back away).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
Perception can be as strong as the truth. The truth can be a very persuasive tool. The truth is that we hold the cards to offer the better deal in any trade up scenario. It may or may not be enough to deter any such trade, but at the end of the day ... We still hold the cards, with or without throwing in the 22nd selection.
Imo we would be fools to lay all of our cards on the table, regardless of how much we like Griffen.
My point is that it would be futile for a team to get into a bidding war with us over trying to trade above us, because it's going to cost them too much if we choose to bid against them. It would cost them far less to persuade us to trade our 4th selection instead..
I agree and will keep banging on this drum with you. I think the only 'other' team that realistically can trade up for RGIII is Washington and they would have to overpay to do it (#6, #39, 1st rounder in 2013 + lower picks). And, they would still know that we can easily trump that trade if we so wanted (though I would hope we would back away).
Thank the Lord ... There is actually someone else who has thought this thing threw and not jumped on the jumping to conclusion bus.
The Allied armies tied up a million plus men from the German army on the channel coast, years before D-Day actually occurred. Why? Because of the perception of a possible invasion. Never mind that logistically it would not be possible for another couple of years.
That man power could have been put to much better use on the eastern front.
As will our 22nd selection.
Weather we are actually willing to trade up is irrelevant, so long as those teams in question, think that's what will do. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
If the Browns spend their two first round picks on a qb...the other needs do not go away...they get pushed down the priority list, meaning they will have to be addressed in other ways.
losing the #22 is ONE PLAYER, Why does every trade up scenario lead to over statements of not being able to draft anymore players?
Quote:
You can either contribute your thoughts on the Oline needs might be addressed, or you can move on.
OR instead of "moving on" I'll continue to post in any thread I choose too... Thanks...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Thank the Lord ... There is actually someone else who has thought this thing threw and not jumped on the jumping to conclusion bus.
The Allied armies tied up a million plus men from the German army on the channel coast, years before D-Day actually occurred. Why? Because of the perception of a possible invasion. Never mind that logistically it would not be possible for another couple of years.
That man power could have been put to much better use on the eastern front.
As will our 22nd selection.
Weather we are actually willing to trade up is irrelevant, so long as those teams in question, think that's what will do.
That was classic! I love history so I thoroughly enjoyed your analogy.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Quote:
Thank the Lord ... There is actually someone else who has thought this thing threw and not jumped on the jumping to conclusion bus.
The Allied armies tied up a million plus men from the German army on the channel coast, years before D-Day actually occurred. Why? Because of the perception of a possible invasion. Never mind that logistically it would not be possible for another couple of years.
That man power could have been put to much better use on the eastern front.
As will our 22nd selection.
Whether we are actually willing to trade up is irrelevant, so long as those teams in question, think that's what will do.
That was classic! I love history so I thoroughly enjoyed your analogy.
Thanks I was worried that it might be taken out of context.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,485
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,485 |
So are we going to draft East Germany or West ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
So are we going to draft East Germany or West ?
LOL we will trade down and take Both. 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) O-Line Thread
|
|
