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Absolutely. However, what I can't figure out is why they would have listed Osweiler at 6'8. There's actually a negative stigma attached to a guy that height, thanks in large part to Dan McGuire. They didn't really gain anything by it. That's the confusing part. They kinda did that kid a disservice, and if I were him, when I get to the NFL, have my first prime-time game, and get asked to give my 5-second cut where I say my name and the school I attended, my answer would be "Brock Osweiler, Francois McGillicutty Elementary School.  "
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Quote:
J/C
Thought this would go well here:
1. The Rams are open for a trade: With the second pick in the draft, the St. Louis Rams could be very active this week in fielding offers for teams interested in trading up for Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. Seahawks general manager John Schneider, who has either the 11th or 12th pick in the draft depending on Friday's coin flip, thinks the Seahawks are too far away from the No. 2 pick to make a deal. Plus, the Rams are in the same division as Seattle, and they wouldn't want to give Griffin to a rival. That leaves the Browns, Redskins and Dolphins as teams in the draft with a top-10 pick that could go after Griffin. The Browns draft No. 4 and might have to give up their other pick in the first round. The Redskins draft sixth, and because they aren't interested in unsigned Green Bay backup quarterback Matt Flynn, what would make sense is working on a trade to get something done as early as this week. If the Redskins made the right offers this week -- and we have had draft-choice trades made before the trade deadline and at the combine -- the Redskins could get to No. 2. The two main options for the Redskins are Griffin or Manning.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7607498/rams-fielding-offers-no-2-pick-essentially-rg3
NOW WATCH THIS!
If the Browns trade up, and give up the #4 and #22 picks for the #2 pick, then the Browns will have gotten Hustled by the Rams.
Period.
Bottom Line.
It took too much for the Browns to get that 22 pick, the fact that if the Rams want that pick shouldn't concern the Browns organization in the least.
Let the Rams live with their own mistakes you don't have to help them.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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All heck would break loose on this board if the Skins and Rams did a trade this week. Oh my god would it be fun! (Not saying it would be good for the Browns, but it would be F-U-N!) If I really wanted the 2, I'd be trying to do something now as well. If I'm the Rams, I say, "Well, we've already been offered this, so you have to better that deal." The Rams can't lose - even if they stay at 2.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Legend
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Huh? I would say if we only have to give up the 4 and 22 we got a steal. According to the Trade Value chart the 4th pick is worth 1800 and the 22nd pick is worth 780. Doing some quick math that equals.... 2580. The 2nd pick is worth 2600. So we would be giving up less than the trade value chart says we should. And that's not even considering that high picks are probably more valuable nowadays because you don't have to sign rookies to $70 million guaranteed contracts. Quote:
It took too much for the Browns to get that 22 pick
Huh?
Didn't everyone say the Falcons gave up too much to move up? How did we now give up too much?
Quote:
Let the Rams live with their own mistakes you don't have to help them.
What does that even mean?
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Ive read it 3 times, and Im just as confused as you.
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First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me. It's one mans opinion made up some years ago and totaly arbitraury. It's completely wrong about the value of top picks to begin with, and I base that on trades from the past.
The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless and grab RG3 who is gonna be the biggest bust since Brady Quinn, and the leauge wouldn't mind seeing the Rams get better, and the best way for the Rams to get better might be to get more picks, and what better picks to get than the Browns 2 first rounders. ( Maybe the Bengals 2 first rounders but that isnt going to happen. )
It cost the Browns 365 days of waiting, a whole year before that 22 pick can be added to the team and you begin to get any value whatsoever.
The #2 overall pick is not worth 2 first rounders when you are sitting at 4. The # 2 overall pick doesn't even come close to worth 2 first rounders unless you are sitting in the high 20's or later for your first pick in the draft.
The Rams would love to trade down because No matter what it is all a "vegas game" shoot and the Rams don't know who to take better than anyone.
at #2, the Rams can only take a shoot at 1 player, and whoever they take, their stuck with, and they can't take 2 players, unless they hustle someone into trading up for their useless 1 pick.
Whoever they take, You can take the other guy, and they are stuck with their decision, good or bad, make them stay at #2, it makes the Browns stronger.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Legend
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Why would the league like to see the Rams do better?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Ive read it 3 times, and Im just as confused as you.
I've read the NEXT one at least that many and still have no idea what he's talking about.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Quote:
First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me.
I reference the trade-value chart all the time.
Welp. that's it then. I'm out. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The ONLY people dumb enough to ever use that chart are coaches and team GM's, so it's not like it carries any weight at all.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless"
I'm not sure if it's The League as much as it is the CIA or the Mafia,maybe the Cubans,or those guys on the grassy knoll.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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I love when the response is even more crazy than the original post.
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Practice Squad
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Quote:
The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless
I would say that the league would love for the Browns to be good.
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some people are difficult to top, though.
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Just a general question. Why do they always exaggerate height or so it seems in college? Osweiler measured 6'6" but ASU listed him at 6'8".
at my HS they measured and weighed us with our cleats and pads on.
#gmstrong
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Just like the Tampa Bay Bucs of the 1980's, along with the Falcons and Saints of that era, the league wants the bad teams to stay bad.
The Rams had the " greatest show on turf" about a decade ago, while the Browns have had been largely bad since around 1994 at least.
The Browns, by perception have become as bad as the Buc's of the 80's and Media outlets, sports writers, and league wide talking heads in general, will all continue to suggest "also rans" would be a great fit in Cleveland.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I....um....geesh
I'm at a loss
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Absolutely. However, what I can't figure out is why they would have listed Osweiler at 6'8. There's actually a negative stigma attached to a guy that height, thanks in large part to Dan McGuire. They didn't really gain anything by it. That's the confusing part. They kinda did that kid a disservice, and if I were him, when I get to the NFL, have my first prime-time game, and get asked to give my 5-second cut where I say my name and the school I attended, my answer would be "Brock Osweiler, Francois McGillicutty Elementary School. "
Maybe they were using his listed Basketball height?
It would be odd if the basketball team was listing him at 6'9" and the football team was simultaneously listing him at 6'5"
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
Just like the Tampa Bay Bucs of the 1980's, along with the Falcons and Saints of that era, the league wants the bad teams to stay bad.
The Rams had the " greatest show on turf" about a decade ago, while the Browns have had been largely bad since around 1994 at least.
The Browns, by perception have become as bad as the Buc's of the 80's and Media outlets, sports writers, and league wide talking heads in general, will all continue to suggest "also rans" would be a great fit in Cleveland.
Are you on drugs?
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Legend
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Certainly possible. Don't know the benefit of going with the basketball height when his ticket to riches go through the NFL...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Quote:
First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me.
I reference the trade-value chart all the time.
Welp. that's it then. I'm out.
The problem I see with the chart is that it doesn't take into affect the true value of the talent, and moreso the drop off of said talent in any given draft.
If there is only 5 "Sure hits" in the top of the draft, then the #6 pick would be worth a lot less considering the perceived drop in talent after those top 5 are gone.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Certainly possible.
is it bad that I thought you were responding to CBFan when I read this part and was nodding my head?
#gmstrong
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The history of the chart indicates it's a guide, not gospel. For a brief time the "it" thing to do during the draft was to follow JJ's chart without question. It hasn't been followed down to the exact number for quite a while.
While I understand why you used that example of 5 top guys, I am curious if you actually feel there are 5 can't miss guys, then a serious drop-off at 6, and if so, who they might be.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The draft day trade value points chart is one of the top 10 biggest problems with the NFL today.
You can't just stick to a chart and not do a trade because the " manual" says not too, or you didn't get your 50 points, so someone would have to throw in a practice squad player, or something like that.
If one side wants a trade, and the other side considers it and agrees to it, and it makes sense, win win for both teams, and the league allows it. Then do it. Any " Chart " is ludicris, Why?
It is ludicris because so many variables change all the time.
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
Even if you don't consider all the changes to all of the variables that occur in any given draft, like the order of the teams, the high value they assign to top draft picks is not including the detriment of the pressure a team has to make the right decision on a pick that is higher, rather than lower.
An example, Kamerion Wimbley, vs Haloti Gnatta, the team that picks first has more pressure to get it right. It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Luck
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
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Quote:
Haloti Gnatta
For some reason, I found this hilarious. 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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1st String
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As several of the posted articles point out (and one on Grantland today), the value chart is not applicable under the new CBA, as the cost of those high picks in dollars has gone down a ton, thus making them much more valuable.
Also, as I said above, I think Washington is going to put a take it or leave it offer on the table to the Rams and leave them in a real pickle since I doubt we make a bid this far before the draft. If the Rams play ball, I think the Redskins make that trade and take RGIII, if the Rams don't I think the Redskins sign Manning/Flynn (and thus get out of the game). With no other team interested in RGIII picking high, the Rams are going to be forced to take the Redskins offer or get a much worse package on draft day (or use the pick). There is no way we bid this early and thus, I think the Rams take the Redskins offer (and so goes RGIII).
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Quote:
Quote:
Certainly possible.
is it bad that I thought you were responding to CBFan when I read this part and was nodding my head?
...certainly possible. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well, as mentioned, the chart is a guide, not gospel.
Quote:
It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
I....I need help with this one.
Anyone?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He's saying the Rams are chicken for trading back and taking either Kalil or Blackmon, whichever Minny doesn't pick, instead of choosing one.
I think.
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Quote:
It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I....I need help with this one.
Anyone?
At this point, I'm strictly an observer!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I think it's like this. Say RGIII is there for us to pick. Isn't it easier to pick him than to not pick him, thereby picking someone who we didn't NOT pick, though we had to probably decide that maybe the guy we really wanted to pick either had already been picked or hadn't been picked, even if those guys don't not get picked by the teams who had or hadn't been bad in an era when bad teams stayed bad but good teams had once been bad but now aren't bad, though they probably will be bad again at some point, unless they aren't bad when they aren't not bad.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Quote:
Luck
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
Reiff would be up there for me too. Just outside this group.
#gmstrong
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Apparently, if Shurmur is confronted by the option to pick RG3, Kalil OR Claiborne, he will become confused, and accidentally draft Adrian Peterson (Chicago Bears).
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
well, if they had a GM acting with cold calculation rather than a HC trying to save his job, then they probably don't make what could go down as the most bone-headed trade of the last decade.
#gmstrong
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) RGIII part 2
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