Quote: They should trade the pick at the moment they feel it is maxed. You dont want RG3 to blow out his knee in his proday while you are waiting for a better offer to be made. If you get an offer you feel comfortable with, you take it and move on and prepare to draft from where you trade down to.
Which is exactly why it WON'T happen until draft day...
Move up now and he blows a knee and you're screwed...
Quote: I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
Didn't Washington do that when they drafted Campbell?
I don't remember that trade off the top of my head, but there is one scenario where it could be a possibility with current players being involved as part of the trade along with picks and that would be the only scenario that I can think of that would trump what we have to offer.
Whether or not we will/should trade up. It's in our best interest to make teams like Washington and Miami think that we are willing to and the Coach has already said as much, so teams looking to trade up now know that they have to package a deal that will force them to out bid us and in the process force them to reevaluate how much they are willing to trade.
If the Rams really like a player on the Redskins roster and they are willing to include that player, that could conceivable seal the deal over the value of a package of picks that we might put together, but picks for picks, they don't stand a chance unless they really forfeit a ton of picks.
Whether we really want Griffen or we would like to see a trade that would insure us another prospect like Claiborn.
I would love to finish out this defense by drafting Claiborne and signing Mario Wilians. Then just take a chance on Tannehill being there at 22. If not continue to build, with another year of Colt and a very difficult schedule we would probably be top 2 oe 3 next year anyway.
Quote: I would love to finish out this defense by drafting Claiborne and signing Mario Wilians. Then just take a chance on Tannehill being there at 22. If not continue to build, with another year of Colt and a very difficult schedule we would probably be top 2 oe 3 next year anyway.
I like the Williams + Claiborne strategy -- but signing a guy for an $80-$90M contract and "planning to draft in the top 2-3 next year" don't really seem to go hand in hand.
Quote: I like the Williams + Claiborne strategy -- but signing a guy for an $80-$90M contract and "planning to draft in the top 2-3 next year" don't really seem to go hand in hand.
Friday February 24, 2012 - 5:28 PM Mike Freeman Teams clamoring for Rams' pick won't be disappointed by Griffin By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider
INDIANAPOLIS -- Robert Griffin III had his height and weight taken this week at the combine. He officially stands at 6-feet-2 3/8 inches. That is about three-eighths of an inch taller than expected. Since the NFL and the people who cover the sport are full of dorks and geeks who wear Captain Kirk pajamas, this was considered big news.
It's amazing, actually. Guy stands maybe an inch taller than expected and suddenly he's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But that's where we are with Griffin. He's such a spectacular quarterback specimen that any piece of news involving him, no matter how trivial, nerdy or silly, leads to a breaking news headline.
Some of that is understandable. No player now -- not even Andrew Luck -- is generating as much interest around the sport as Griffin. He will make this draft one of the most interesting to watch in recent history because of the full-frontal assault teams will make in the upcoming draft to trade up and get RG3.
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
It will likely take two No. 1 picks (at least) to make that trade, and the reason is some teams view Griffin as similarly talented as Luck or such a close facsimile in terms of potential that the difference isn't a great one.
The Redskins remain the front-runners. Their serious interest was inadvertently confirmed by big-mouth assistant coach Jim Haslett, who spoke to a fan about the team's serious interest in Griffin not knowing that the fan penned a Redskins blog.
Haslett only confirmed the obvious. Everyone in football expected Washington to make a play for Griffin before Haslett spilled the beans and nothing has changed. It's the kind of move impetuous owner Dan Snyder would make, except this Snyder move would actually be a smart one. Griffin going to Washington would energize a frustrated fan base.
The Dolphins are also interested in trading up despite their Matt Flynn infatuation. Team officials believe the sleeper team is Seattle, though moving from the 12 spot to No. 2 would cost a great deal.
There are two things we definitely know when it comes to the Rams and RG3. One is that St. Louis won't trade Sam Bradford, as coach Jeff Fisher explained Friday. He could be fibbing, but it's highly unlikely they would make such a move. We also know it's highly unlikely the Rams draft Griffin unless their intent is to immediately trade him (which won't happen either). This just leaves the option of trading out of the spot.
"There's a lot of options," Fisher said. "We'll be prepared."
Griffin is worth the risk of giving up so many draft choices. His smarts, strong arm and athleticism make him a practically can't-miss prospect.
And yes, I said his smarts, despite some analysis to the contrary. Though draft analyst Mike Mayock has said extremely positive things about Griffin, he also launched the annual trial balloon about the intelligence of melanin-blessed quarterback prospects. Mayock was asked how he thought Griffin would do in the private sessions with teams at the combine, where prospects break down game tape and diagram plays. Mayock's response, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram: "I don't know how he'll do in that setting."
With his non-answer, Mayock raises a question that doesn't deserve to be raised. And ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay told the newspaper in the same article: "I'd be surprised if he doesn't floor teams with his intelligence."
Mayock's comments are similar to what is whispered and sometimes said outright about many black quarterback prospects. The same things were stated, in fact, by some about Cam Newton last season. Newton turned out to be, well, kinda brilliant.
Indeed, scouts have maintained to me there is no indication Griffin lacks the intellect to play the position. In fact, they say the opposite, pointing to the fact that Griffin graduated early from both high school and college. At Baylor, he earned a degree in political science and was an Academic All-American. He's the definition of a smart guy.
Most of the NFL knows this and if they don't they'll find out this week and when some team -- likely the Redskins -- trades up in the draft to get Griffin they'll see better than anyone.
Quote: League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
Maybe they aren't letting on or are trying to mask it? Maybe they just don't have him rated as high or have an idea for a different plan. Maybe they like Tannenhill or are exhausting options with Flynn? Maybe they like Colt and will bring in a guy like Henne who is young and draft a guy somewhere. What if they aren't as down on Colt as some here believe. Maybe they really like Barkley or Jones and will look to trade down and secure another first for next year and go with Richardson. and put Playmakers or "guys who score TD's" on the field in more forms than just a QB. Maybe they like the idea of Claiborne at 4 and look at his selection as a safe great pick that can start day 1 and lock down probably the best Corner duo in the league for a long time. Even Blackmon is a possibility at this point and we really can't screw it up. These are all questions or possibilities that even the guys making the picks have considered. I guarantee there isn't one approach or possible scenario that has not been discussed or thought of.
We all have our own ideas on what would be best but at the end of the day I feel comfortable knowing we will be a lot more talented team. I am excited about where we are going and the approach we have taken to get there under current management. I think after this draft and offseason teams are going to have to look at us differently.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I could see us trading up on draft day to get Griffin......then those other teams saying they had no intention of taking him....then the calls for Heckert's head because he was tricked into giving up the farm.
Griffin's height measurement has really upped his stock in my eyes. I thought for sure he was going to come in at 6'0" like Colt did after being listed at 6'2" or 6'3" in most of the pre-draft reports.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
If you think about it we should be less interested in making a trade, because we draft higher then those other teams and we are in the best position to draft Griffen without trading up. They are all looking to jump ahead of us.
Quote: League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
Could it also be St. Louis just "reporting" there is a lot of interest in the pick to try and light a fire under Cleveland's behind? For all we know Cleveland offered a 4th rounder and a conditional 2nd next year and the Rams haven't gotten anything else so they want to try and sweeten the pot.
Don't forget everyone ... it's draft season. Everything you hear is only out there because someone wanted you to hear it... not because it's true or because it doesn't serve someone's agenda ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
It's also a bidding war as well... Cleveland doesn't have to meet the Rams needs ... they just have to offer more than what Washington does.
Our #4 and #37 are better than Washington's #6 and #39.... and if St. Louis tries to jerk our chain too much and says "You really gotta give us more" then we could stand firm and then they end up losing out on a good deal. IF they trade with Washington then Blackmon AND Kalil are probably both gone.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we traded both firsts ... but I also (at this time) don't buy into the fact that we have to offer both firsts. No-one else can even beat our First and #37 UNLESS Washington offers into next years as it is. If that's the case then St. Louis might get more picks, but they might also have to miss out on a top prospect this year. ...
In the end ... I just don't think we need to trade The #4 AND #22 ... when no-one can really beat our #4 and #37 as it is. And that's not even counting the fact that if St. Louis can't get a deal done ... we could always just offer a 3rd to swap with Minnesota. They (probably) don't want Griffin so they wouldn't take him anyways. We would essentially be giving them a third to take the other player that they wanted in the first place.
I know there are a lot of rumors out there and a lot of hype / drama about what COULD happen ... but I just don't buy into trading away another first rounder when we might not have to. I know it's just my opinion but why outbid yourself at an auction?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
Even if we werent sold on RG3 we have shown enough interest to make the Skins nervous enough to trade ahead of us.
Now Flynn goes to Miami, i think that one is pretty much a done deal.
Seattle will try for Manning but I think they go Defense in the draft anyway.
So now we have pretty much cleared the path to Tannehill at 22.
Now at 4 we can go Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne or trade down. Eagles and their 2nd along with Desean Jackson could be enticing to Heckert. Heck at 15 Richardson has a good chance of still being there if not, Cordy Glenn is the ideal tackle for Heckert.
The fact that there are only 4-5 ELITE talents in this draft...
Two of the being QBs (Stl and minny have invested in Bradford and Ponder already)
and one being a RB, (Jackson, Peterson)
Helps us GREATLY...
Are Stl or Minny willing to pass up on ELITE talent for extra later round picks?
If I'm either of them, and I'm on the clock, I'm calling up Washington and TELLING the that Cleveland offered the #22, Give us your 2013 1st Rounder and the pick is yours...
That's the only way they can save it, assuming they care about the top players in this draft...
Last edited by OSGuy; 02/24/1211:04 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Why would you be openly honest about how you're trying to make your team better in spite of another team?
Does Jerry Jones call up Dan Snyder and tell him he's going to offer Albert Hayensworth 95 million only for Snyder to say "Aw that sucks Jerry, I gave him 100?"
OR
Does Dan Snyder call up Jerry and ask him what he thinks about Hayesworth, and Jerry says "Dan, if I had the cap room I'd give him 100 million!" and then hang up the phone and cup his hands together and say "...Excellent..."
Jerry Jones
Last edited by OSGuy; 02/24/1211:20 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: I think these guys lie to each other all the time.
There's a big difference between concealing or not revealing things - and outright lying about things, especially things that teams will inevitably figure out (like whether the Browns offered a huge stockpile of picks that you were going to take).
I was one of the Colt defenders who realized that Colt never had a chance to succeed and should be given a chance. Now...the more I see and hear RG3 the more impressed I am. Even the extra height makes a difference as I thought he looked small when I watched him play. I thought he might only be 6-1 so he's almost 2 inches taller. Bottom line is I hope we fix the offense for whomever is the QB so they have a chance to succeed. I also hope that Colt is kept as the backup and Seneca is shown the door. I think Colt would do everything in his power to win the starting job but would also do everything he could to help the Browns win if he was named the backup (including helping his competitor and teammate get better). We all know that the backup in Cleveland eventually plays anyway. The Browns have many needs and can ill afford to give up any high picks but it looks like RG3 is worth #4 & #22. Now I just hope it doesn't cost more than that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Some people laughed when I posted that picture of Griffin standing beside Luck and said that they were about the same height ... with Luck being maybe half an inch taller.
I laughed but didn't post it.
You can't take a picture from an angle like that and get any indication of size relationship.
I know. I deal with this everyday in my work. I design truck lettering. Take one picture of the side of the truck (from dead center both horizontally and vertically) then take one actual measurement of a section of the truck (like a door) then scale that section up to the measurement I've taken and then any measurement taken from the computer from any section of the picture of the truck is accurate.
If that picture I took is at any angle (not dead center at either of the two axis) then regardless if I scale it to that one measurement, that one measurement is the only one what will be right. All other measurements taken from the computer will be wrong.
We call it "skew". If the picture is skewed then the numbers will be skewed. You can see it in both the visual and in the numbers.
You just can't take a picture at an angle and draw any conclusions regarding size.
All that said, you were right in that RGlll has the height to be an NFL QB and that is not in dispute. So you were right. But your "evidence" proved nothing.
I'll say that his height has helped me warm to him. But, perhaps more important to me is how much he impressed pretty much everyone with his interview. Seems like a real polished kid.
I never got caught up in all the height issues.. it was pretty clear that all reports had him over 6 feet.
But your right,, that interview revealed a great deal about the kid. He's smart, articulate, confident but not cocky. And funny. not that that's important, but he is.
All that said, I'm still not sure a team with as many holes as we have would be wise to trade a bunch of high picks.
But it doesn't matter what I think. if the brain trust in Berea think he's the guy and they have a plan to add the talent around him fairly quickly, then i'm good with it..
The key here for me is that if they go out and get the 2nd pick, grab RG3 and then don't support him by putting talent around him, then they are damn fools...
No plan means don't do the deal.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: The key here for me is that if they go out and get the 2nd pick, grab RG3 and then don't support him by putting talent around him, then they are damn fools...
No plan means don't do the deal.....
I've said that all along - If we get an RG3 (tradeup or at #4) - we better go out in FA and get a top flight receiver who he can throw to (DeSean Jackson is the obvious match to RG3's abilities - but really any would be better than what we have here).
And we better get a RT who can keep him on his feet (this is, to me, more important. QBs can still develop with drops, they can't develop if they have free rushers coming at them constantly)
Shurmur has already said that he wants to get a veteran WR .... and not just a WR, but a guy who can contribute, and who has a lot left in the tank. He doesn't want a guy who can just help the other players .... but a guy who can compete to be a starter.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I would love to see Colston in a Brown's uni more so than any other receiver. If our first four went Colston, (Jeffrey, Sanu, Randle), Little, Norwood. I would be thrilled.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Shurmur has already said that he wants to get a veteran WR .... and not just a WR, but a guy who can contribute, and who has a lot left in the tank. He doesn't want a guy who can just help the other players .... but a guy who can compete to be a starter.
I agree - I'm just saying it's more pressing in FA if you're not going to have first round picks to get a Blackmon/Floyd/Wright/Jeffery
And I'm still not all that convinced that Blackmon is going to be this all world receiver that some people expect him to be.
He's not in my top 4 players in this draft ....... so I would not be drafting him unless he slipped all the way down to 22. (or wherever we wind up picking with our 2nd pick)
I fully expect us to go try and get a FA WR .... but we had better have a solid QB plan to sell these guys on. If I'm a FA WR, the first question out of my mouth is "Who is going to be throwing me the ball?" ....... and if the answer is "we don't know.". or "Colt McCoy.", then I thank the team for its interest and move on. I would rather go to a team with a QB I can depend on to get me the ball than one with major questions at the position. If the team says "We don't know yet, but we are evaluating players as we speak, and we are seriously considering RG3 right now as our best option" .......
We'd have guys excited to play if that were the case. They've seen the highlights. They've seen the beautiful deep ball. We'd have receivers excited about coming to Cleveland to play, instead of considering it a final cash grab before retirement.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I have only marginaly paid any attention to what is going on, but this snipit brought a new line of thinking to mind;
Quote: There are two things we definitely know when it comes to the Rams and RG3. One is that St. Louis won't trade Sam Bradford, as coach Jeff Fisher explained Friday. He could be fibbing, but it's highly unlikely they would make such a move. We also know it's highly unlikely the Rams draft Griffin unless their intent is to immediately trade him (which won't happen either). This just leaves the option of trading out of the spot.
What if HH&S negotiate a deal to do just that, trade draft picks for Bradford? 1) you get that "Franchise Quarterback", 2) St. L get's out from under the last pre-New CBA monster rookie contracts (and acquire multiple picks to boot) 3) We get a Quarterback with attributes (Super tall with a big arm)the fans are clamaring to have, the coach already knows, and would fit right into the system.
If we were ready to sell the farm to get him the first time around, why wouldn't we try to negotiate for something close to that now.
Is Bradford so tarnished because he didn't "light it up" last year that he is considerd a "Bust" and if that is so, how can we be so absolutely sure RGIII can "Be the Man" when he has nothing close to Bradford like attributes?
Just sayin'
"GO BROWN" bring on the Spring Training!
Hears to hoping Dorsey is the Browns Ozzie Newsome.
Quote: And I'm still not all that convinced that Blackmon is going to be this all world receiver that some people expect him to be.
He's not in my top 4 players in this draft ....... so I would not be drafting him unless he slipped all the way down to 22. (or wherever we wind up picking with our 2nd pick)
I fully expect us to go try and get a FA WR .... but we had better have a solid QB plan to sell these guys on. If I'm a FA WR, the first question out of my mouth is "Who is going to be throwing me the ball?" ....... and if the answer is "we don't know.". or "Colt McCoy.", then I thank the team for its interest and move on. I would rather go to a team with a QB I can depend on to get me the ball than one with major questions at the position. If the team says "We don't know yet, but we are evaluating players as we speak, and we are seriously considering RG3 right now as our best option" .......
We'd have guys excited to play if that were the case. They've seen the highlights. They've seen the beautiful deep ball. We'd have receivers excited about coming to Cleveland to play, instead of considering it a final cash grab before retirement.
I'll never understand your logic.
On one hand you say your not sure that Blackmon will be all that. Based on what? Have you seen something that tells you this or is it just a hunch of yours? Blackmon was clearly and by far the best WR at that level over the past two years and that includes the likes of Green and Jones last year. You certainly can't use his body of work to know this.
On the other hand you think Griffen is all universe. Based on what? You can't tell me that he competed against the best teams during that time.
All we have to go on with either is how they performed in College at this point.
So all things being equal. What makes you so sure Griffen is all that and Blackmon is nothing special. Both excelled at that level.
All we have to go on either is not conclusively telling either way as to how either will transition. Over the last 40 years I've seen great College talent come and go and one thing I know for certain is that you can never know for certain how they will transition (well or not so well) to the NFL, based on what they did at the College level.
That's why I don't get too star eyed on one, while dismissing other possibilities. I like many prospects every year, but there are but a few (over 40 years) that would make me say that we need to get this guy at all cost.
When they get to this level the talent is better overall and many times those great College players are no more special then the next guy in many cases. That's not to say that they can't be very good at their respective positions, but there are many good players at this level at all positions as opposed to a couple on any given team at the College level.
QB is the hardest position to project. On the other hand RB Is probably the easiest to project, but none are ever guaranteed to be great.
It's a given that you can rate prospects against other prospects in any given draft based on what they did in College, but you can't know for sure how they will stack up to the best talent in the world at the next level.
If you can, then your better then most who get paid to be right.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif){kind=logo}
so is
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
But your "evidence" proved nothing.
