I have said all along that my first 2 choices are Luck and RG3. I don't want Flynn, and feel that we should stay with McCoy if we are thinking about Flynn. I would also stay with McCoy rather than going for Tannehill. I also have no great desire to go chasing journeymen QBs.
Somehow that got me lumped into an ABC cult according to the poster you replied to.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I absolutely agree that if the plan is Flynn (or some other veteran QB), that we should just stick with McCoy. I'm well on the record, actually, that I think the plan overall should be to stick with McCoy.. but that's for another thread.
Flynn proponents are gaga over that Detroit game, but they gotta realize... that's an anomaly. You do NOT set a team record like that and then expect that level all the time. It just isn't going to happen, and it certainly doesn't happen in the first place without a LOT of things going in your favor. Basically, it shows you nothing except that he knows the system that he's in, and given plenty around him that knows the offense, a solid game plan and a terrible secondary to play against, he can get it done.
Heck, that kind of performance is a Perfect Storm kinda thing... and you never buy stock when it is at its highest.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I agree on Flynn. DA put up 51 in Cincinnati, and Holcomb once lit up Pittsburgh in the playoffs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Somehow that got me lumped into an ABC cult according to the poster you replied to.
Well clearly if you say anything remotely good about Colt then you are 100% convinced that he will the QB of the future for the Browns and you are, therefore, an idoit... and if you say anything negative about him or mention drafting a new QB, then you obviously feel that replacing him will get us into the super bowl immediately and that all of our other weaknesses don't really exist and you are therefore, an idiot... Where you run into trouble is if you have some nice and some critical things to say about him... then you are only as good as your last post.
Quote: Flynn proponents are gaga over that Detroit game, but they gotta realize... that's an anomaly.
not sure where all the Flynn proponents are then. I thought I was one, but I am not "gaga" over that Detroit game, I brought him up before he had that game. And, have consistently brought up his disadvantages/risks.
there are a few that are "RGIII or bust" but I have not seen any poster go so far out for Flynn (and there are good reasons for that).
Quote: No, you didn't randomly remove a game, you selectively removed the worst game.. at least it was the worst game until the very next game...
DC...this is great evidence to show you don't have a clue what I'm pointing out.
I did not "randomly" removing a game from the Lions schedule.
I was making the point, going into the Packers game, the Lions "pass" defense likely ranked around 12th and not the 22nd ranked defense shown by existing stat sheets.
Put another way, after 15 games, the Lions defense ranked somewhere close to 12th in the NFL....
...and after game 16, the Lions defense ranked 22nd in pass defense.
One could claim that the Lions pass defense finally showed it's true colors "after 15 games"....but that is not what happened.
What happened to the Lions 12 ranked pass defense (est)?... they ran into 3rd ranked pass offense in the NFL that was humming with backup Flynn at QB...and after that game the Lions pass defense ranked 22nd in the NFL after Flynn put up 480 yds.
The following week, the Lions ran into the #1 pass offense and the hottest QB in the NFL, Drew Brees, at N.O.
The Lions pass defense ranked 22nd after week 17...that is not 32nd and it is not #1. They were a good pass defense, not great and not the worst pass defense in the NFL. After Flynn put up double the yds (480 yds) in the last game of the year, the Lions pass defense fell approx 10 spots, to 22nd.
NRTU, but I'm just curious where are all the folks (the Toad really jumps out at me - no pun intended) that said that GB would slap the franchise tag on Flynn and demand an unworkable trade value in return for him.
Flynn is a free agent and the Browns can sign him if they can come to terms with him without giving up anything.
It would be interesting to see what kind of contract he will be able to get and where he ends up.
Packers backup QB Matt Flynn let go GREEN BAY PACKERS, MATT FLYNN, NFL | COMMENTS
The Green Bay Packers have let backup quarterback Matt Flynn become an unrestricted free agent, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.
Flynn has been targeted by several teams — including Miami Dolphins wide receiver Brandon Marshall — and now he has the ability to choose his destination.
Free agency begins March 13.
Flynn has played sparingly as Aaron Rodgers’ backup, but he had an impressive outing New Years Day against the Detroit Lions, when he threw for 480 yards and six touchdowns.
Time to throw some really cold water on Flynn from ESPN...
Quote: The original poster child for the biggest bust as a free-agent quarterback was Scott Mitchell.
For those not familiar with Mitchell, he was the hottest free agent in the league after the 1993 season, in part because of how well he played while filling in for an injured Dan Marino.
In only his second career start, Mitchell dominated a Kansas City Chiefs club that eventually made it to the AFC Championship Game. His stat line of 22 completions in 33 attempts for 344 yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions against one of the best teams in the league showed the kind of upside he might have.
The bad news for the Detroit Lions was that Mitchell was nowhere near as good as that game would indicate. The Lions signed him to a three-year, $11 million contract that was quite large for the time, and Mitchell rewarded them with a 27-30 mark in four seasons as their starter. His mediocre performance was so painfully memorable that Mitchell is often mentioned among the worst free-agent signings ever.
There have been some strong cases over the years for players to top Mitchell on this list, but after taking a closer look at the case of Matt Flynn -- this year's highest-profile free-agent quarterback and one who has been rumored to several teams in a potentially big deal -- it's clear all of the building blocks are in place to potentially vault him over Mitchell on the list of worst free-agent quarterback signings ever.
It starts with the most valuable part of the argument in praise of Flynn: his strong performance in a very brief audition. The highlight was against the Detroit Lions in Week 17, a game in which he set Green Bay single-game records for most passing yards and touchdown passes.
As remarkable as those numbers are, it's just as important to note that Flynn went 13-for-17 for 258 yards and four touchdowns on passes thrown at Alphonso Smith, Chris Harris and Chris Houston.
Context matters. Smith is so bad in coverage that Denver gave up on him after one season, despite him being their top second-round pick in the 2009 NFL draft. Harris' history is no better, as his mediocre skills are a big part of why the Lions were his third NFL team in three years. While Houston has a much stronger metric history than those two, he was slowed by an injury that didn't show up until a few days before the Green Bay game.
In other words, the correct way to view Flynn's record-setting game is to say that it proves he can post dominant numbers if he is surrounded by very talented pass-catchers and faces a weak and injury-riddled secondary at home.
Instead of concentrating so heavily on Flynn's game against the Lions, why not take a closer look at his 2010 season? He was asked to fill in for an injured Aaron Rodgers in the second half of a game at Detroit and then started a game at New England.
Flynn's overall numbers in those games were so-so: 39-for-63 for 428 yards, three touchdowns and two interceptions. That equates to an 84.6 passer rating, or slightly above the 82.2 league average for that season (according to pro-football-reference.com).
But check out Flynn's metrics by route depth in those contests:
The yards per attempt (YPA) totals are mediocre or worse at nearly every depth level.
Even more disturbing is the 4.5 percent bad decision rate (BDR). BDR measures how often a quarterback makes a mental error that leads to a turnover or a near turnover. So a dropped interception is considered a bad decision, not merely an incomplete pass. For perspective, a 2 percent BDR is considered the mark of excellence for a vertical passer.
Rodgers has posted phenomenal BDR totals ranging from 1.1 to 1.7 percent the past two seasons. However, during his toughest tests, Flynn was making risky mental errors anywhere from two to four times as often as Rodgers.
If all of the above isn't enough to make a team take a step back before giving Flynn a big contract, one should also consider the potential alternatives.
Two viable options are Jason Campbell and Kyle Orton. These quarterbacks are older than Flynn, and they have longer track records of above-average performances and would cost a whole lot less to acquire.
A team should also consider that the collegiate ranks are now producing more pro-ready quarterbacks than maybe at any time in collegiate football history.
For proof, just look at some of the quarterbacks who have been drafted over the past four years: Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy, Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco.
That's 10 starting-caliber quarterbacks in four drafts, a number that will grow even higher with this year's crop of draftees that includes elite prospects such as Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Ryan Tannehill and second-tier talents such as Brock Osweiler, Kellen Moore and Brandon Weeden. And next year's draft isn't exactly looking like slim pickings, either, as Matt Barkley, Landry Jones and Tyler Wilson all look to have very good chances of being first-round selections.
Maybe the best way to sum all of this up is by noting something famed general manager Ernie Accorsi recently said in an interview with Colin Cowherd.
When it comes to acquiring a quarterback, Accorsi told Cowherd that no price was too high to pay if the quarterback turned out to be great, but if he turned out to be a bust a move of that nature could set the franchise back 5-7 years.
Flynn may end up in the great category, but the odds against it are strong. That means a huge contract such as the one he is quite likely to command is simply too much a risk to take. If a team does take that chance, it could be setting up the last block in giving Flynn a chance to top Mitchell on the all-time free-agent quarterback bust list.
KC Joyner, aka the Football Scientist, is a regular contributor to ESPN
That also further blows out any false premise that Flynn did damage against "quality" NFL defenses...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Flynn is the pretty shiny thing that caught fans' attention ..... but like many pretty shiny things, he will probably lose his luster once he becomes someone's new starting QB.
Man I hope our front office is smarter than to go after him.
Someone used the term "fool's gold" referring to a different QB ..... but with the investment this guy would require, he'd be really expensive fool's gold.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
If Manning doesn't go to Miami he has to end up there...
But let's say Manning DOES pick Miami... then where does he go?
I thought Jackson played pretty well last year before he got hurt, and I still think Carroll is holding out hope to get Barkley next year...
If Washington doesn't get Manning I think they go all in on RG3, they want a splash more than anything IMO...
Where else could he go? KC? Jacksonville? Even if he's not "The Guy" I'd assume anyone that brings him in thinks he could be, and that would make bringing him i to compete somewhat pointless...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Toad...I tried to find your story since you didn't provide a link ...but I did find this, "very current" information...
If you have a link, I will review the information.
Who's in on Matt Flynn? Tuesday, March 06, 2012
Matt Flynn belongs. In three extended NFL appearances, he’s looked like a competent starting quarterback all three times. Competent starting quarterbacks get paid a lot of money.
So how much money is Flynn worth? I went back to watch Flynn’s two career starts and his relief outing against the Lions from 2010. Here were the takeaways:
Better than Kolb
It’s hard not to compare Flynn to Kevin Kolb, the trendy backup ready to make bank at this point last offseason. I remember going back to watch Kolb’s outings and came away less impressed.
Flynn showed attributes that are difficult to teach, especially for a young quarterback. He didn’t look like a young quarterback. He went through his reads and saw the field well. He made safeties move with his eyes. He picked on the opponent’s weakest defenders. Most importantly, Flynn threw the ball well when the pocket collapsed.
Pocket presence might be the most important quarterback skill that is almost impossible to teach. Kolb doesn’t have it. (Blaine Gabbert really doesn’t have it.) Flynn connected on passes while getting hit, and showed the ability to improvise when necessary. He can throw on the move while running left and right.
Accuracy might be the most important quarterback skill overall. Flynn completed 65% of his throws in his three games. Many throws were short, but he knew when to get rid of the ball quickly. His misses were generally not by much or “good” misses. I chart an informal number called “bad passes” when I watch quarterbacks. Only 17% of his throws qualified as bad passes, which is a low number. (Trust me.)
It gets tricky to give a quarterback credit for intangibles but its hard not to be impressed with Flynn. Facing the streaking Patriots in Week 15 of 2010, with a lot on the line, Flynn acted like he had done it all before.
He got up laughing after taking a big hit in the fourth quarter of a close game. He threw an interception returned for a touchdown in the third quarter, which was largely the receiver’s fault. A lot of young quarterbacks go into a shell at that point.
Instead, Flynn’s very next throw was a pass into a tight window to the same receiver (James Jones) on almost the exact same route. Completion. Onions.
Concerns
The overall numbers from Flynn are outrageous: 908 yards, 8.4 YPA, nine touchdowns, two interceptions, and two fumbles in just two and a half games.
Flynn was promising in his outings, but he wasn’t that good. His arm looks average for an NFL quarterback at best. His deep ball was underthrown a few times. The Patriots did a nice job blitzing him in 2010, and Flynn looked a lot more comfortable out of shotgun in 2011. He occasionally held on to the ball too long.
Add it all up, and I’d easily take Flynn over Kevin Kolb from a year ago. I give Flynn a better chance of developing into a difference-making quarterback than Matt Cassel. Most likely, though, you will need the right situation around Flynn to make it work. But he can be a league average starting quarterback sooner than later, and that has plenty of value.
Possible destinations
1. Miami: Dolphins coach Joe Philbin is the only coach not on the Packers that knows if Flynn has what it takes. You can only draw so much from three games. Philbin has seen Flynn every day in practice for four years. If the Dolphins don’t go after Flynn, I’d usually consider that a red flag.
There is only one problem with that theory: Peyton Manning is available. Dolphins owner Stephen Ross is desperate for a big name to make his team a marquee franchise again and reports indicate Ross will push to sign Manning, whether Philbin is truly on board or not.
Miami is the best home possible for Flynn. He knows the system and they have better depth at wide receiver than they are given credit for. If the Dolphins sign Manning, that leaves the Browns and Seahawks as the expected contenders for Flynn.
2. Browns: This feels like the move Browns President Mike Holmgren wants to make. Flynn fits what Cleveland wants to accomplish offensely. The Browns appear antsy about giving up tons of draft picks for Robert Griffin III. Waiting for the draft allows for a risk that the Redskins (or a mystery team) outbid Cleveland for RGIII, and the Browns get stuck wasting another year with Colt McCoy.
My money is on Cleveland making it happen with Flynn.
3. Seahawks: Seattle has ties to Flynn through G.M. John Schneider. The Seahawks aren’t afraid to be aggressive going after quarterbacks. Will the Seahawks see Flynn as a big-enough upgrade on Tarvaris Jackson? I doubt they’ll be as aggressive as Cleveland.
It’s hard to see another fit for Flynn. If Miami doesn’t get involved, don’t be surprised if Flynn doesn’t get the contract (north of $9 million-per-year) that he desires.
When I read Toad's story about Mitchell, the writer made it sound like Mitchell played one game before Detroit signed him, so I decided to look it up. In that year filling in for Marino (who I believe got hurt against the Browns), Mitchell had 12 TDs and 8 INT.
I was also surprised to see Mitchell actually threw more TDs than INTs in his career (95 - 81), including one year (1995) where he threw for 4,338 yds, 32 TDs, and 12 INT. His numbers overall weren't great, but were definitely better than I remembered.
I'm not saying any of this supports or refutes signing Flynn. I just found some of it interesting.
When I read Toad's story about Mitchell, the writer made it sound like Mitchell played one game before Detroit signed him, so I decided to look it up. In that year filling in for Marino (who I believe got hurt against the Browns), Mitchell had 12 TDs and 8 INT.
I was also surprised to see Mitchell actually threw more TDs than INTs in his career (95 - 81), including one year (1995) where he threw for 4,338 yds, 32 TDs, and 12 INT. His numbers overall weren't great, but were definitely better than I remembered.
I'm not saying any of this supports or refutes signing Flynn. I just found some of it interesting.
Mitchell had one great year, and a bunch of "bleh" years.
He threw for 32 TD with 12 INT in his 4th year in Detroit. Think DA's 2007 here. Other than that year, he was extremely unimpressive.
I pray that we are not stupid enough to think that "Fools Gold" Matt Flynn will be any kind of answer in Cleveland. I would rather hobble through another year with McCoy than go down Flynn Driv ...... no .. probably not many drives with Flynn ...... more like a dead end.
Flynn has thrown about 600 passes in the past 8 years. How anyone could be enthusiastic about turning the future of their football team over to him is beyond me. I could almost understand Miami, with his old coach now their new head coach ....... but anyone else would reek of a desperation move.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Flynn is the pretty shiny thing that caught fans' attention ..... but like many pretty shiny things, he will probably lose his luster once he becomes someone's new starting QB.
You mean like RG3?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Flynn is the pretty shiny thing that caught fans' attention ..... but like many pretty shiny things, he will probably lose his luster once he becomes someone's new starting QB.
You mean like RG3?
Actually, no.
I expect Flynn to be what he has always been ..... a backup level QB. If he is signed as someone's starter, I expect him to be a backup level QB. Flynn has really never done anything for any period of time in college or the pros. There is absolutely no track record to rely upon.
I expect far more from RG3. He does have a long track record. he hasn't even hit the NFL yet, and he already has thrown a total of 1192 passes in the past 4 years compared to less than half that for Flynn between college and 4 years in the pros.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If you have a link, I will review the information.
Wait...that deserves another and a couple of to be concluded with a
What's damned funny is that you wanna focus on Mitchell. That's BS. I couldn't care less about Mitchell, or any other QB who signed a big deal over the course of the years. In terms of how that relates to Flynn, it has ZERO bearing on this situation. We can go back through the history of the NFL and point to numerous guys who turned short-term success into a fat contract, only to either flame-out or under-perform.
What's IMPORTANT are the metrics.
For years people scoffed at the "new age" MLB SABRmetrics, then suddenly it started making sense and now there isn't a respectable GM in the league who doesn't use them.
Don't debate Mitchell. That's immaterial. Debate the metrics and debate the FACT he has two starts against two very bad defenses.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Posted by Josh Alper on March 9, 2012, 11:32 AM EST
The Peyton Manning chase has dominated the football landscape this week, but he isn’t the only quarterback looking for a new home this offseason.
Matt Flynn is leaving the Packers and is expected to have plenty of suitors for his services once free agency opens on March 13th. For Manning, the big question is about whether or not he’s healthy enough to play at the level we’re accustomed to seeing from him. With two career starts under his belt, Flynn doesn’t have an established level of play and that means the question about him is just how good a quarterback he will become.
Aaron Rodgers has seen as much of Flynn as anyone and he shared his verdict with Peter King. Rodgers thinks his soon-to-be former teammate will wind up being better than half the other quarterbacks in the league.
“The team that gets Matt is going to be very happy, I can promise you. They’ll be getting a top-15 quarterback.”
It seems like a fairly measured statement since top-15 isn’t exactly the kind of thing that makes you want to rush out and hand over the keys to your franchise. But any team expected to be interested in Flynn isn’t coming from a place where they can turn up their nose at a quarterback in the upper half of the league. Whatever metric or method you use to rank quarterbacks, a quarterback in that range should get you in the mix for a playoff spot given the right supporting cast.
Now Flynn just has to live up to that prediction. If he does, he likely will make his new team very happy and make Rodgers look like a pretty good judge of future quarterback talent.
Quote: Then the Browns are total morons and I won't waste any time or money on this team.
Oh come on we know you will be right here with us when the season starts......I wanted RG3 but I am sorta of glad he is going to be gone now cause we wont have to give up any picks now. Sign Flynn and get some playmakers Tom.......this team could be pretty tough if we could get a O that produces!
I wouldn't like that at all. I don't like Blackmon though. And I don't think any running back is worth a first round pick. Oh, and I don't want to sign Matt Flynn.
