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Indy races on ovals. About half the races anymore. Used to be a lot more, til they merged with some other series. Off the top of my head, I can't think of it.
But, since Indy joined with the other series - the one that ran all road courses - look at Indy ratings. Bad.
F-1 runs all road courses. Look at their ratings.
Ovals rule - and you don't run ovals in the rain.
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They merged with Champ.. (Where AJ Almendinger was racing before NASCAR)
F1 is the most popular auto racing sport in the world. It really isn't popular in the US because it isn't Amerocentric... No driver to cheer for... to which... There hasn't been a great US driver in F1 since Mario...
And for the past number of years they weren't even racing in the US because the Indy track was marred with controversy. (although there is a track being built in Austin where they'll race this coming December... and there's a track in New Jersey that will host as well next season...
Last edited by The Collector; 02/29/12 06:05 AM.
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My point was though, open wheels do race on ovals, not just road courses.
Nobody said open wheels dont run on ovals, F1 doesnt run on ovals, the point being that F1 will run in the rain.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Nobody said open wheels dont run on ovals, F1 doesnt run on ovals, the point being that F1 will run in the rain.
Yes, exactly. F1 isn't Indycar. I think Indycar has run in the rain in the past ... but on road courses only. They aren't set up quite as well as F1 cars though, so I think there are some limitations as to how much rain they will run in.
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But, since Indy joined with the other series - the one that ran all road courses - look at Indy ratings. Bad.
F-1 runs all road courses. Look at their ratings.
Ovals rule - and you don't run ovals in the rain.
Indy's ratings are bad because, with few exceptions, their races are shown on Versus - and not network tv or even a major cable network (like ESPN).
F1's ratings are only bad in the US. Overall, they are higher rated than any other race series, worldwide - from my understanding.
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Nobody said open wheels dont run on ovals, F1 doesnt run on ovals, the point being that F1 will run in the rain.
Yes, exactly. F1 isn't Indycar. I think Indycar has run in the rain in the past ... but on road courses only. They aren't set up quite as well as F1 cars though, so I think there are some limitations as to how much rain they will run in.
Said I wasn't an expert. What the heck is the difference between F1 and an Indy car? Both open wheel right?
#GMSTRONG
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But why are Indy car races shown only on that channel?
I would posit to say that it's because no one watches them - NOT that no one watches them because of the channel they are on.
Shoot, at MIS they struggled to get 25,000 fans even show up live.
It's gotten worse since they merged with champ car. Know why? About half the races are street or road courses now. Plus, very few american drivers.
It's just not a popular series - or type of racing. Here.
1 of 2 things will happen: The "leaders" will wake up and see that road/street races are killing the series, OR, Indy racing will go by the wayside. (like champ car did - no one watched champ car - but what did Indy do? Made half their races champ car style races)
That may fly in europe, or south america - but it doesn't bring fans here in the states.
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Just because a certain sport, or a certain style of racing, is popular over seas - that doesn't mean it should be or will be popular here. That doesn't make it right or wrong - it just makes it true.
For years I watched every Indy car race other than the street/road courses. For one reason - Hornish. I haven't watched a race other than parts of the 500 since. And I won't. I don't know the drivers, and I don't want to. Since they went to almost half of the races being street/road courses, attendance and viewership has declined drastically.
In many countries in Europe - women don't shave their legs or pits. Does that mean it should be popular here?
In the u.s., football is king. Does that mean it should be king in Europe or south america?
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It's gotten worse since they merged with champ car. Know why? About half the races are street or road courses now.
It has nothing to do with the road courses. In the 90's the CART series was essentially the same thing you see now, and it was the most popular racing sport in the country.
The ratings for the Indy 500 went up last year (after the merger), and some of the road tracks are the bigger draws for the league (Long Beach regularly sells out)
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It's just not a popular series - or type of racing. Here.
It was, just over a decade ago ... Indy car's issue has much more to do management than anything else. Not the type of racing.
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1 of 2 things will happen: The "leaders" will wake up and see that road/street races are killing the series, OR, Indy racing will go by the wayside. (like champ car did - no one watched champ car - but what did Indy do? Made half their races champ car style races)
That may fly in europe, or south america - but it doesn't bring fans here in the states.
CART went by the wayside for several reasons ... none of which had to do with "road courses". The biggest being it had no signature event, like the Indy 500. They other being, it became inundated with foreigners that American race fans had no connection to. It essentially became F1-lite ... so American fans had no real vested interest in it, and everyone else would just watch the "better" series.
The two biggest problems the Indycar series is facing right now is parity and star-retention. The series is dominated by two teams right now, and it makes the races less exciting when you have a pretty good idea who is going to win before it starts. They're also the little-step brother to Nascar now, so all the better drivers skip over to that series because that's where the money is.
Moving to an all-oval schedule isn't going to do anything to boost ratings for Indycar. If anything, it's going to make things more dangerous for the drivers, because these kind of cars aren't meant to run wide-open on NASCAR like tracks. You can have pack racing in Nascar, but it's much more dangerous in open wheel racing.
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I guess we'll just have to disagree on what is causing the Indy car downfall. Although, I do agree with you about the "star"retention thing - but I'd go a step further.
Champ - CART - those were very seldom big draws. For one reason: the "tracks" they ran on.
And Indy car is seeing the result of that.
Road courses/street races.......who wants to watch a parade? Because that's all they are.
Also - Indy cars don't run in packs like nascar. You may find 3 wide at a time or 2 during the race, but not very often. Plus, the drivers know they cannot touch.
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Champ - CART - those were very seldom big draws. For one reason: the "tracks" they ran on.
Not true at all ... some of the bigger draws were the road circuits. There were many reasons. The biggest being that you couldn't name two American drivers that competed in the series, if you could name two at all. Like I said before ... CART drew just fine in the 90's when it had essentially the same type of racing they do now. Then they got cocky, and split up. Their marquee event went one way, and their name-brand drivers went the other.
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Road courses/street races.......who wants to watch a parade? Because that's all they are.
Who want's to watch left turns all day? 
Different strokes for different folks. In the end, it's going to come down to star-marketability and race notoriety. Two things the split in the 90's killed for the Indy series. Suddenly the Indy 500 lost it's luster, and the "name" drivers slowly retired or were replaced by foreiners the average American fan had no interest in.
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Also - Indy cars don't run in packs like nascar. You may find 3 wide at a time or 2 during the race, but not very often. Plus, the drivers know they cannot touch.
They do on race starts and restarts. They tried running a NASCAR type race for Vegas last year, and it essentially ended in Dan Weldon's death. 40 open wheel cars on a track where you can run wide open is a recipe for disaster.
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unrelated to the series and their draws...
Why does anyone think that Danica Patrick is going to succeed in NASCAR. She's wrecked in 12 of 27 races (11 of 26 in NNS) and has a 4th place, 2 10ths, an 11th, and the rest are 20th and below. The 4th place, at Las Vegas last year was a fuel mileage finish.
Sam Hornish Jr.
John Andretti
Juan Pablo Montoya
Marcos Ambrose
AJ Allmendinger
Dario Franchitti
Max Papis
Patrick Carpentier
Tony Stewart
The list is much bigger, but there are so many open wheel drivers that have failed. by my estimation, Tony Stewart is the only one that was truly successful of that group, and half and many many more have washed out...and they were all AMAZING open wheel Indy/F1 drivers...why is a mediocre Indy driver with 1 win (a fuel mileage win in Japan) going to succeed?
Yes she'll bring in money...but there is nothing that makes me think shes going to succeed in NASCAR, its a bummer shes taking a ride out of a better driver's hands.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Stewart has excelled in nascar.
Ambrose has had some decent runs.
JPM has done okay really (aside from smashing a safety truck and creating a fire unlike any ever seen in nascar before)
Hornish - ups and downs. If you read about him, or talk to him, he is the first to say "man, it's tougher than I thought". He really is relishing this season in nationwide - to give him a foundation/base.....something to build on. Will he "make" it? Who knows.
What does 'make it' mean?
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Why does anyone think that Danica Patrick is going to succeed in NASCAR.
I don't think anyone who really follows racing ... and isn't a media type ... really thinks she'll succeed at NASCAR.
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I want to see a racing event like in Cars-2 where there is road race portions, "left turn" portions and dirt portions, while getting drivers from all over the world and all types of cars to compete in it.
It'll never happen, but it would be fun (and incredibly dangerous).
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Im with you...Danica and Dale Jr are so over rated its not even funny.
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But why are Indy car races shown only on that channel?
They're on that channel because Versus won a bidding war against ESPN. The rating dropped DRASTICALLY when they made that switch, and it's because not everyone carries Versus.
Also, as has been stated, they had very good ratings in the 90s (at times, better than NASCAR), then Indy split. The key race went one direction, the names went the other. And the split pretty much happened because of one guy being a d-bag. That guy is no longer involved and IRL and CART merged back together. The ratings are coming up, but they will never be NASCAR levels.
I only brought up overseas ratings of F1 (road races) as an illustration of how ovals aren't always king of the ratings.
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And the split pretty much happened because of one guy being a d-bag.
Yep. Tony George single handedly ruined Indy car racing. Until his idiotic shenanigans, Indy and NASCAR were on equal footing.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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And the split pretty much happened because of one guy being a d-bag.
Yep. Tony George single handedly ruined Indy car racing. Until his idiotic shenanigans, Indy and NASCAR were on equal footing.
Aww! So glad I'm not the only one who knew who I was talking about there. LOL! He's why all the names went to CART, but he is why the 500 stayed with IRL. Otherwise, IRL wouldn't exist now and there would only be CART.
Biggest thing that sucks about them coming back together, the race at Burke Lakefront (Cleveland) is gone. I loved that race - mostly because I could sit at home and know about 90% of the track volunteers. I could have volunteered to work it as well, but I usually had a family commitment on that weekend. Bummer though.
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have a constent ride...
not have to be switching rides constantly or washing out in general
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Aww! So glad I'm not the only one who knew who I was talking about there. LOL! He's why all the names went to CART, but he is why the 500 stayed with IRL. Otherwise, IRL wouldn't exist now and there would only be CART.
I read a good article about this a few months ago. George actually had some good intentions and reasons for doing what he did ... the execution was just lousy and pretty much single handedly murdered the sport.
The jist of it was that he saw that CART was controlled by big money teams, and it wasn't allowing for American grown track stars to ascend the ranks and get a ride in the series. If you didn't have a ton of money yourself, or some strong backing, you weren't getting in. Supposively the "poster boy" for this was Jeff Gordon. He was a originally a midget racer, and wanted to get into Indy car racing, but could never get a ride ... instead he went to Nascar and became one of their big stars.
George wanted to make a series that didn't require a ton of money invested to start a team, and could cater more to young and rising American drivers. However, rather than slowly lobby people over to his cause, and make changes slowly over time ... he pouted, pulled the Indy 500 out of the CART line-up, and made his own league. He had the backing of AJ Foyt (who's a much better driver than model citizen) ... and an up and rising star in Tony Stewart (who wasn't quite ready for the media spotlight), and felt that was enough to break away from CART ... instead, it pretty much just killed the sport.
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Quote:
Why does anyone think that Danica Patrick is going to succeed in NASCAR. She's wrecked in 12 of 27 races (11 of 26 in NNS) and has a 4th place, 2 10ths, an 11th, and the rest are 20th and below. The 4th place, at Las Vegas last year was a fuel mileage finish.
Sam Hornish Jr.
John Andretti
Juan Pablo Montoya
Marcos Ambrose
AJ Allmendinger
Dario Franchitti
Max Papis
Patrick Carpentier
Tony Stewart
Yes she'll bring in money...but there is nothing that makes me think shes going to succeed in NASCAR, its a bummer shes taking a ride out of a better driver's hands.
I think Danica can get to the same level as JPM. She will have good equipment (pun intended) to start. She is going to have to make the most of Nationwide series. I'm not so sure everyone in that group had the best rides or even oval experience at the time they got in. Danica's 3 wrecks during Speedweeks were none of her making. I know one thing, that girl has the drive and determination to pull it off (no pun intended). People talk about her whining, but she is no more the whiner that JPM. Its that open wheel thing...soccer players in race cars. :-)
I think Marcus Ambrose has the ability to become somewhat relevant and he worked his way through the NASCAR series. We know Stewart carried over extremely well, but he also raced midgets, sprints and USAC SCs. The extensive oval background and dirt racing translated well for him and the Indy cars honed his road racing.
Sam Hornish Jr. - Go Carts and IRL
John Andretti - Raced a lot of different series and actually won a Cup race for Petty Enterprises, but Petty Enterprises was not a top tier organization.
Juan Pablo Montoya - CART and F1 Has 2nd tier NASCAR equipment.
Marcos Ambrose - NASCAR series...Trucks on up and Super Vs. I don't think he raced open wheel. He is used to the fenders and not scared to touch wheels. Would love to see him in top tier equipment, I think he could win races.
AJ Allmendinger CHAMP, some NASCAR series and not the greatest rides as I recall.
Dario Franchitti - CART and Indy Car
Max Papis- F1 and CHAMP
Patrick Carpentier - Should have done better with Evernham, but I think he was pushed to soon and I'm not sure that team was all that well funded as I recall.
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Dawg Talker
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Personally I am a fan of the one that is least broadcast...ALMS....American Le Mans Series for those who have never heard of it....lol (I wouldn't be suprised...lol)
As some stated.....NASCAR races on ovals...and don't hold your breath waiting on a pass in F1....While the prototype classes are pretty cool and they get the speeds you see in the F1's etc...I am Really a fan of the Corvette's in the GTE class and the GTE class in general. Very competitive, Pits still matter, lots of passing, and lots of turns...and how can you not like those cars??? I saw a couple of shows where the ALMS driver and the NASCAR Driver switched places.....and while both LOVED their respective time in the others car....the NASCAR Drivers Ear to Ear grin coming out of that Covette was more than infectious....2 different cars to do 2 different things....I am not going to say one is better than the other....I just prefer the ALMS cars....24 Hours of LeMans is my favorite race of the year and a Bucket List Item...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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PETE~You and my husband sound like peas in a pod! He LOVES ALMS and GrandAM racing. My 40th bday gift to him was a trip to see the 12 hours of Sebring. His Bucket List is LeMans and Nurburgring. Although, between the 2 of us (hubs and I), I'm the bigger Corvette fan. Something about the roar of a Vette engine just makes me happy! 
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Hornish started in go karts. Won the WKA championship.
Moved up to Formula Ford, then Toyota Atlantic. THEN, he got a ride with a virtual unknown in Indy - then moved to Panther racing in Indy, then was sought out by Penske racing in Indy cars.
Then he moved to nascar.
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I'm starting with Mario Kart... hoping to make the jump to the NASCAR Truck Series. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And, Pete, you should come out some weekend Nelson Ledges Road Course and check out the racing there. The first weekend in August should be our biggest weekend out there. Or the weekend of October 6th will be just flat out FUN racing. That's our CHUMP Car race - race prepped cars that cost under $500 (minus the cost of safety equipment and tires) racing for 25 hours, 25 minutes and 25 seconds. The cars are just a HOOT!
If you're interested in coming out to the track at all, let me know. The managers of the track and close friends of the family. (They are our best friends)
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I'm starting with Mario Kart... hoping to make the jump to the NASCAR Truck Series.
Great strategy!
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I have a good friend who races in CHUMP and LeMons!!!!!
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I've also come to like the Austrailian V8 series too...they are alot of fun to watch...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Ok, the more you type, the more I think you and my husband should hang out. LOL! And my husband and his friends race both CHUMP and LeMons. I LOVE those series. They really are a hoot! This is our Stella:  She's based (loosely) on the John Player Special F1 Lotus, but called Junk Player Special. Complete with banned F1 technology - skirting. LOL!
#gmstrong
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Ok, in all seriousness... that would be FUN!
Just looking at that picture seriously makes me want to try racing.
Are those stock road tires, lol??!!!?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Ok, the more you type, the more I think you and my husband should hang out. LOL!
And my husband and his friends race both CHUMP and LeMons. I LOVE those series. They really are a hoot! This is our Stella:
She's based (loosely) on the John Player Special F1 Lotus, but called Junk Player Special. Complete with banned F1 technology - skirting. LOL!
Chump and Lemons is what racing should be....guys in the garage, small budget and fun!
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I love this low budget racing. The first year we did it, our budget was kinda big, but that included the purchase of Stella (the car) and a parts car. But Stella has endured through 5 endurance races and some fun days out at the track as well. So, subsequent years, most of the budget is in entry fees and food (the wives feed their husbands and kids VERY well - we had steak one year).
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Are those stock road tires, lol??!!!?
Regular old street tires. LOL!
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OMG, I want to try this, lol!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Come on out to Nelson Ledges in October!
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ive been wanting to get into chump/lemons for a long time... just looks like a good blast of fun
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This months car & driver has tips for LeMons in it...mostly safety stuff.
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