DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Free Agents Part II

March starts this week, so free agency is getting closer (March 13th). Teams are starting to lock-up more of their own guys (like we did with DQ), so the picture of who is really available should become clear pretty soon.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

I am just going to list the players I am most interested or disinterested in and I am not including guys I fully expect to re-sign with their teams. The full list is in the above link.

Offense first:


QB:

Flynn - if he is going to cost us draft picks, then I would prefer to use draft picks to trade-up for RGIII (unless we can get him for a 3rd rounder or a 2nd in 2013). Flynn is definitely more game-ready now. But, his ceiling is likely a bit lower. I really like Flynn but we still need to be prudent.

Other QBs - I am interested in no other FA QBs. If we obtain another QB, then I hope it is through the draft. Having a backup QB from the mid-round guys is fine.


RB

Hillis - it would be nice if he re-signs before FA. if not, then it is tough to predict where he will go. Cinci and Pitt both have firsthand experience with how good he can be when healthy and both currently need a RB (Mendenhall could be a PUP candidate with his ACL injury).

Tolbert - by far the 2nd best RB on the market. and he might be the best (he has some injury concerns but not as many as Hillis). he is also a proto-typical WCO RB, so I think he becomes our top target if we move on from Hillis.

M. Bush - he really struggled down the stretch, but he's another RB who would fit well in the WCO and has shown he can be effective. I don't like him as much as Hillis or Tolbert, but he would not be a bad option.

BJGE - the lawfirm would not make me sleep easy at night thinking that our RB worries are solved. but, if we pair him with a 2nd round rookie RB (L.Miller if he drops or C.Polk), then I would not mind that plan.

Others: K.Bell (if Chicago doesn't put a 1st or 2nd round tender on him), Forsett (though we have a better version of him in BJAX)

WR

Vincent Jackson - tall, fast WR with good hands. obvious issues but they seem to stay off the field at least. injury issues too though. i wouldn't go crazy trying to sign him, but he would definitely get a call.

Reggie Wayne - not interested in him nor would he be in us. he will likely go to SF or another team with a good SB shot the next 2 years that needs a WR.

DeSean - so much game-breaking talent. so many off the field issues that seemed to spill onto the field last season. Heckert has a better grasp on him I would think, so I'll trust his judgement here.

Meachem - 1st round talent that hasn't fully realized it. Knee injuries. Intriguing what he would do if he became a WR1 though. I would be a backup plan, but I'd like to have him nonetheless.

Manningham - I don't really think he's great. He's not terrible, but I'm guessing the superbowl hype will get him a bigger contract than he is really worth.

M.Wallace - I assume Pitt either re-signs him or puts a 1st round tender on him which takes us out of the market for him.

Others: Harry Douglass, Eddie Royal, Lavelle Hawkins

TE - we could use one if Watson isn't healthy, but a lower priority

OG - I think we'll be fine with some combination of STeinbach, Lauvao, Pinkston

OT - want to go to the draft for OT

Defense Next:

DE:

Mario Williams - Avril, Mathis and Campbell are all going to command big salaries as well on the open market. Well, if we are going to pay elite money, then I want elite talent. Mario is definitely elite.

Avril - he's the 2nd best of this group for our needs.

Mathis - I wouldn't want to pay him anywhere near the money that Mario or even Avril will command and it's being bandied about right now that he won't be that far off.

Abraham - he'll be a cheaper option than the above and a 2year stop-gap at the most. I wouldn't be thrilled at all, but Heckert seems to find veteran band-aids when necessary.

the rest of the DE list is really underwhelming

DT - I assume, if anything, we might draft a young rotational guy

LB - I'd prefer we get Lavonte David, Sean Spence or even Lewis to be our WOLB in the draft, but if not:

Erin Henderson - the 'other' Henderson Minnesota LBer. he's not flashy, but he could be a solid addition.

CB

Dwight Lowery - underwhelming bunch of FA CBs and not our highest priority but Lowery is actually a decent talent that would be a good sign.

S

Jordan Babineaux - another overall underwhelming bunch. Babineaux would be an interesting addition to our backfield.

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Dwight Lowery - underwhelming bunch of FA CBs and not our highest priority but Lowery is actually a decent talent that would be a good sign.

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Lowery is one FA CB I definitely would sign. Depends on who's cheaper, him or Aaron Ross. But I'd like either of those guys. Both not great players, but definitely solid.

Both NY guys too, so i've seen them play

Here's my original list, from the first FA thread. Nothing really to change. I think. What do you all think?

DEs . . .
Mario Williams - Texans
Cliff Avril - Lions - He'll be locked into staying a Lion, right?

OLBs . . .
Ahmad Brooks - 49ers
Erin Henderson - Vikings
Phillip Wheeler - Colts
Wesley Woodyard - Broncos

ILBs . . .
Stephen Tulloch - Lions
David Hawthorne - Seahawks
Dan Connor - Panthers

CBs . . .
Brandon Carr - Chiefs
Richard Marshall - Cardinals
William Middleton - Jaguars
Jason Allen - Texans

RBs . . .
Michael Bush - Raiders
Mike Tolbert - Chargers
Kahlil Bell - Bears

Ss . . .
Tyvon Branch - Raiders
Michael Griffin - Titans
Dashon Goldson - 49ers

the only reason I included Avril is that he is asking for Charles Johnson $$$ and the Lions are soon going to have a ton of $$$ locked into that DL.

Cross Ahmad Brooks off of my list

Hey, remember when we could have had him for basically free in the supplemental draft?

We ended up trading up with that 3rd round pick for Eric Wright after blowing our 2nd plus 1st on Brady Quinn. I was happy about the Wright pick, though.

NRTU

Not exactly sure where to put this so I thought this was as good a place as any. Had some thoughts after traveling all day and listening to the NFL channel on Sirius. Most of those guys seem to beleive that the asking price for RGIII is going to be to high for the Browns as we need to much help in to many other places to give up more than the Deadskins will.

So the following scenerio has to do with the assumtion that RG III is to expensive (calm down YT, it's only in my imagination ) and Flynn goes to Miami.

In Free agency we resign Hillis and Dmitri Patterson. We then make the big splash and sign our DE to go opposite Sheard, DeMario Williams. We then make a few smaller splashes and sign WR from Buffalo in Stevie Johnson, and a QB to give McCoy some competition in Kyle Orton.

Then........keeping all of our draft picks with the 1st three we go....
#4---Morris Claiborne, CB LSU
#22---Micheal Floyd, WR ND
#37---Cordy Glenn, OL Georgia

This scenerio, doesn't get us our QB that most seem to desperately want, but in all reality, we really may not get Flynn or RG III. So....This scenerio significantly boosts our defense by putting a "QUALITY" Pass rusher opposite Sheard, allows us to put Ward and Claiborne on the corners with Patterson coming in on Nickle situations. We could possibly move Brown back to Safety giving us Ward and Adams at SS and Brown and Young at FS.

On Offense we get Johnson and Floyd to pair with Little, Cribbs and Steptoe.

We get Orton to Push McCoy and possibly step in to start if need be, and finally some help on the right side of the O-Line.

Two questions:
1- Is this even realistic?
2- Would you be able to live with this?

Just thinking out loud..............

I don't think it's realistic.

I don't think Mario Williams would want to come here but I may be wrong. Same with Stevie Johnson. He just came from one team that was a cellar dweller and played those cold - cold games off of the shore of lake erie against a few elite teams that are playoff competitors. Why would he want to come here and not just stay with Buffalo if he wanted to do that?

Personally I would love adding Claiborne and Floyd ... but if Clairborne is there / kalil is there / blackmon is there I would see about trading down 5 to 10 spots (Dallas wants Claiborne / Philly would have natural ties / Kalil could help anyone / Jacksonville could love Blackmon / etc.) Then with an extra 2nd or third we could afford to grab Richardson OR go after a top Oline in the high to mid teens. We could even draft Kendall wright to go WITH Floyd. But I doubt Glenn is there at 22 ... let alone 37. I could be wrong.

Personally ... my Ideal would look like this:

#4 Trade down between 7 -14. Pick up a 2nd round pick between 39 and 46.
@ (7-14) Richardson / Ingram / DeCastro
22: Floyd / Adams
37: Best WR / OT / DE (with respect to what we already drafted as well)
39 - 46: Same as above

We could come out with a True WR - a DE opposite Sheard - a late first / early second OL (hopefully RT) and then had another pick to add in a 2nd round RB / WR as weapons.

Do what you will with picks 3, 4a, 4b, 5, 6, 6 and supplmental ...

I just don't see any big name free agents coming here yet. I'll believe it if it happens ... but why would anyone WANT to come to the Browns? Maybe if we put something together THIS year we will get players want to come to us.

But if you want to go play football for a team in the cold ... why not go to Pittsburgh / Baltimore / New York / New York / New England / Chicago / Green Bay

Even if you bring up the fact that "they could come here and be part of something special..." yeah ... well they could do that in Cincinnati as well. Or in Detroit. Or in San Francisco. Or maybe Houston? Or St. Louis ... all are trending up ... and all (except for San Fran) have legit QBs as well.

I am not dumping on the city but we don't offer top players anything that they couldn't get elsewhere. Unless we overpay we will not be able to get top free agents UNTIL we string together something special in the wins column.

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I don't think Mario Williams would want to come here but I may be wrong.

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People keep posting his name and I honestly don't see it happening. The guy has spent what... 7 years on a team digging itself out of expansion hell to try to build a winner.. they are now really close to being a legit contender in the AFC and he's going to leave for a team that is where the Texans were 5 or 6 years ago so he can go through it all again? This is probably his last big contract so I'm sure money is a factor but at some point the guy is going to want to play for a team that contends and he is good enough to have his pick of teams as long as they can afford him and he would probably accept less to play for a team that can compete right now... I think the chances of him coming here are slim to none...

Orton hasn't played in a WCO and has been in the league awhile now. his greatest success was playing in the pro-style spread in Denver (which KC is somewhat trying to replicate but with more running).

Toad would quickly tell you that if we are going to get an over-the-hill veteran with no upside but a known floor, then we would sign Jason Campbell (he might not quite put it that way).

yeah...no more guys that arent cutting it elsewhere

Another guy I'd like to get . . .

Detroit, Tulloch not close to a deal

Posted by Mike Florio on February 29, 2012, 4:28 PM EST

ReutersLinebacker Stephen Tulloch is due, along with many other NFL players, to become a free agent on March 13 at 4:00 p.m. ET. The Lions, we’re told, hope to sign Tulloch to a new deal. We’re also told that the two sides are still talking.

For now, however, they’re not close to getting a deal done.

Tulloch and defensive end Cliff Avril are the two highest-profile Lions who are poised to hit the market. The team simultaneously is hoping to strike a long-term extension with receiver Calvin Johnson, in the hopes of driving down his $21 million cap number for 2012. G.M. Martin Mayhew ruled out last week the possibility of cutting receiver Nate Burleson and defensive lineman Corey Williams in order to free up cap space.

In his first and (so far) only year with the Lions, Tulloch started 16 regular-season games and one playoff game. He spent his five prior NFL seasons with the Titans.

The Lions are more likely to use the franchise tag on Avril than Tulloch. Ideally, they’ll sign Tulloch to a long-term deal and then tag Avril.

Ideally, that is, for the Lions. Teams with designs on either player could be hoping for the whole thing to blow up.

There are some rumors about that we'll be in the market for John Carlson, TE (a former Holmgren draftee)

So what does everyone think will be the first big "Really?" moment of Free Agency?

Someone swoop in and nab Mario Williams? (hint hint, Heckert)

Does some overpay for a specific player?

What's everyones opinion on how 4pm on the 13th will go?

(13th.. So close... yet so far away...)

I do have a feeling that we will not be the team to swoop in and sign Williams, simply because Heckert has said that he feels that he can find pass rushers deep into a draft.

However, if the Browns really want to "reinvigorate the fan base" as an article I read the other day suggested, then signing Williams and a starting WR, and then drafting RG3 ought to do it. lol

I would suspect that someone will throw $125 million or so at Williams by the 15th, at the latest.

True ... but that takes away some of the competitive balance of the team issue.

Pittsburgh can afford to keep so many vets because the guys will willingly restructure their contracts so that they can keep talent around them.

Brees is rumored to be wanting to sign a deal quickly so that the saints can use the tag on Carl Nicks. After all ... what's an extra million per year for 4 years if you lose one of your best o-linemen, get sacked a dozen more times, don't have the protection that you need to set up plays downfield, and ultimately that makes the offense suffer?

If Calvin restructured his deal and had a halfway decent PR person, he could be seen as a hero in Detroit. Not only putting up his numbers ON the field, but also helping to keep more talent in the city as well .. and that would be worth millions alone in advertisements and other appearance fees.

Blue collar towns love production (who doesn't) but they also love the guys who care about the team and doing it the right way .... the second money ever becomes an issue ... even the stars can lose their glimmer in the eyes of the fanbase (see: offseason woes recently with Josh Cribbs / Peyton Hillis just for a few examples)

Ytown, not that you asked me or that anyone really cares but I am going to state my opinion on the QB thing ( & still ride the fence at the same time..... ).

I want the best QB that we can have without giving up the farm to get him. If we can get RG III for our two 1st's this year and maybe a later round pick.....fine. Let's go get him. I'd LOVE to have him with our 4th pick, but we all know that's not happening.

However, I think it is going to take more to get him than that. I think Washington may sell the farm to get him, if they don't go after Manning. I also could see a darkhorse team (Dallas???) coming in to play.

I know your comments on that if RG III is that special, then we need to bite the bullet, but I just feel that we have to many holes on this team and getting RG III by selling the farm, may be just putting a finger in the dyke as the water keeps rising. He may get us those few more wins you are talking about, but filling some other holes, such as WR, O-Line, Pass Rusher, etc., may do the same thing.

I don't mean to ramble, but I don't know how else to get my point across. Do I like RG III and do I think he can help our team....yes, I do. But I also beleive the filling some other holes and getting McCoy a better supporting cast can do the same thing.

In the end, I will go with whatever Heckert and Holmgrem decide, because I do beleive that they know what they are doing and know how much RG III and/or whoever else is worth.

I hope that makes a little sense.

One last thing......I really believe our defense is only 2 or 3 players from being something really special as well. I know our offense was/is terrible, but I would love to see our defense with a corner like Claiborne opposite Haden and a quality pass rusher opposite Sheard.......

So yea, basically I am staying on the fence and you can't push me off damnit!!!!!

if Calving restructured, then he would not make less money. the money that he makes would just be distributed over different years (or it's also possible for them to just have the cap hit over different years and he get paid the same --- depends on what they do)

I seem to remember another time where thier were two sure fire QB's in the draft and they were expected to go 1 and 2. One of them was the 1st overall pick, the other went in the high 20s.

it could happen that one goes first, the other drops.. who knows.,

i thought Miami as pretty set on taking Ronnie Brown at 2?

Regardless of what Braylon thinks they told him..

Well, I have said that if we lose out on both Luck and RG3, then I want Claiborne. I think that we should do whatever we can to get RG3, but if it just becomes an impossible task, then Claiborne is my target. We would then have one of the most important things you can have in the NFL on defense, and that's a way to stop the opposition's passing game.

How is it impossible?

I'm pretty sure that St Louis would accept our entire draft this year, like you said earlier...

But only because it's all McCoy's fault...

Oh no ..... I said that we should give St Louis our next 5 drafts just to trade up. I would want a 7th round pick and some UDFA of my choice in return though. (in addition to the 2nd pick this year, of course)

You really must try harder to keep up .... you know I change my opinions all the time, and never have the same ideas from day to day .......








**Disclaimer:For those with an impaired or non functional sense of sarcasm, this is indeed sarcasm. This post does not reflect my true feelings, and is meant to be taken in a humorous manner. Read at your own discretion. Parental supervision is advised. Includes red dye #2, MSG, and MDF board. Unplug when not in use. Keep out of the hands of small children. Consult your doctor if serious medical conditions occur.

Morris Claiborne is a real nice player. In fact alot of your best CBs come from the SEC.
But what good is a CB without a pass rush?
the Browns did very little in putting heat on the QB last season.
They need a freak coming off the edge more than a CB.
its been forever since the Browns have had a pass rush that amounted to anything.
30 sacks doesn't cut the mustard.
The Browns have the worst RDE's in the NFL.

purple text my friend...

Fair enough.

I know you like RG III and I do understand why. The next question, & you may have answered it allready in the numerous QB threads (if you have I apoligize) is.......what is to much, when does it become an "impossible task"?

Is both our 1st's this year, a third this year, and say our 1st or 2nd next year to much?

I think it is, especially if it includes our 1st next year.

IMHO, the only thing I give up is our two 1st's this year, and POSSIBLY a later round pick (this year or next). That's it. No more. If that's not enough, than I pass on RG III. We just need to much help on offense and are too close on defense to give up any more than that.

I honestly want to know what you would be willing to give up to get RG III.

Thanks.

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Morris Claiborne is a real nice player. In fact alot of your best CBs come from the SEC.
But what good is a CB without a pass rush?

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I agree with you. To use ytowns own logic.. a great pass rush makes corners, not the other way around.

That's a good question, and I really don't know where I would say "enough is enough".

I would go 4 and 22 this year, but would start out with less, if possible. I would probably add a 3rd or 4th if necessary. I might go 4, 22, and a 1st next year, but I would have to think hard about that. More than that, I can't say that I wouldn't ..... but I really can't say that I would either. I honestly believe that RG3 will be a start in the NFL .... but there is that 0.00000000000002% chance that I could be wrong. (I know, but it did happen once in my lifetime)

4 first round picks and I would say No. I could draw the line there. However ..... if we had a great couple of weeks ......... with Mario Williams ....... and Dwayne Bowe ....... and Ray Rice ....... and DeSean Jackson in free agency ........ then I might be inclined to give up a little more for a final piece of the puzzle.

It's still really early in the process .... so we really don't even know what the final price will be. I suspect that 4, (22 or 37) and a later round (4th-5th) would probably get it done ...... but who knows for sure? This is the silly season ... when all things not only can happen, but do ..... until they don't.

Cool and thanks for the response. It looks like we may actually be on the same page as to what we would give up, except I wouldn't even think of giving up our 1st next year.

Like your list of FA's as well .

I think this is a fair question to most of you.....what you be willing to give up for RG III? If anything?

Who knows, maybe he does fall to #4......I just don't think it's going to happen.

If Sigs didn't have a limit I would totally have that disclaimer in mine...

jc

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Receiver-Roulette-Part-2.html

Mike Wallace

Wallace is a Restricted Free Agent (RFA), so the Steelers have two options: (1) tender the highest qualifying offer – about $2.75 million – giving them the right to match any offer sheet Wallace receives, or (2) apply the Franchise Tag (Tag) to hold Wallace’s rights for an amount north of $9.4 million. Despite mortgaging $26 million of players' contracts to stay afloat amidst their severe Cap issues, the Steelers are still highly leveraged and probably cannot afford to tag Wallace. Thus, the likely course is an RFA tender while the team holds it collective breath.

A quiet win for players in the recent Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) negotiations was a decrease in the maximum RFA tender available. The “super tender” of first and third round picks – the highest tender in the previous CBA – was eliminated, making it less prohibitive for other teams to poach RFAs.

Teams in need of a receiver drafting at the back end of the first round – Chicago (19), Cleveland (22), Baltimore (28) or San Francisco (30), among others – could possibly make a play for Wallace. Many have asked about the Patriots making a run at Wallace, having picks 27 and 31. I don't see it due to (1) greater needs on defense; (2) an organizational philosophy to not reward other teams’ free agents at that level; and (3) the standard operating procedure of Bill Belichick is to use low first-round picks to secure additional second-round picks or future selections.

Prediction: Wallace receives a first-round RFA tender and the Steelers hold their breath that Cap-rich teams such as the Bengals, Browns, Redskins or Jaguars do not present front-loaded offer sheets.

So, we CAN get Wallace for the 22nd overall pick? I would make sure that the Steelers pay a hefty price for him though...if they can't or won't? Cool, 1 less need

no. someone posted the actual CBA language earlier and it is the team's original pick if they hold more than 2 1st rounders. so, our #4.

I'd be really worried about a WRs attitude coming from a Top team to the bottom team in the same division...

Hopefully he's the kind of guy that would use the motivation to prove his old team wrong for not paying the price for him?