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Folks,
I am brand new new to this forum. However, I am very excited to join such a passionate group of fans. This forum is loaded with great posts. I'm a former high school football coach from Upstate NY now residing in Nashville TN. Today, I'm just a fan like anyone else here.
I am very pumped up for the opportunity this next draft offers the Cleveland Browns. As I reflect on recent drafts with no day 1 in the 2008 draft and Mangini being handed only 4 draft picks scheduled for 2009 - I fully understand what it takes to compete with the rest of the AFC North (all playoff competitors). Cleveland needs to improve how well it drafts in comparison with divisional opponents.
RGIII is an extremely intriguing prospect that offers up elite QB skills that could have fallen to our doorstep at #4 overall pre-hype. I remembered thinking after a comeback victory one never saw in Waco, TX - this guy wins at Baylor so he's doing the unthinkable already. However, I swim against the currents of popular opinion in confessing I think McCoy can succeed with some decent surrounding talent. 6 of the first 8 teams scheduled to draft in 2012 have young starting QBs and 5 of those were drafted in round 1. What if any of those 5 teams traded away 5-6 picks to land their young QB? Most of those teams are excited they can draft some help or margin of error for their young QBs.
Unfortunately, Texas was the only Big 12 defense that ranked in the top 60 of 120 Division IA defenses while Missouri ranked 61st, Oklahoma ranked 62nd, Texas A&M ranked 66th, Kansas State ranked 74th,and Oklahoma State ranked 107th, Texas Tech ranked 115th and Kansas ranked 120th. Isn't this the same conference that produced countless QB disappointments for the NFL? Where does this give me an apples to apples comparison to Dick Lebeau's defense with Polly at Safety or Baltimore's Defense with Ed Reed in Centerfield? Let's remember Graham Harrell threw 48 TD passes vrs Big 12 defenses so we can fathom how much different the NFL is in terms of culture shock to transition of levels.
What worries me is a loose cannon like Daniel Snyder is driving this 2012 draft auction to the extent of moving from pick #4 overall to pick #2 overall will involve about 6 picks when we learn what winning the auction costs. This movement of 2 draft slots feels like we're moving a continent away. LOVE the kid - but HATE the cost.
Try to think why I would say such a thing. In 1999 and 2000 we held the very first pick overall both times. Pretty cool to have our choice of what pick of the litter we want. Okay, which one of those choices landed on injured reserve less than twice? Understanding we started out our new beginnings with 5-27 football and made the playoffs just 2 years later - can you imagine if we gave up 5-6 picks for either pick of the litter? How would playoffs have been possible?
Did Rich Gannon say it best that the ONLY difference between Colt McCoy and Andy Dalton is AJ Green? That would be a pot of gold at the end of every rainbow we don't have the luxury of throwing. There's a Plain Dealer article titled "Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy has Potential says analyst/former player Rich Gannon written by Mary Kay Cabot on 12/23/11. Meanwhile our designated go to WR was a rookie that changed from RB to WR and possessed about 1 year of college experience plying WR. Meanwhile, the best WR/playmaker (Cribbs) had 0 years of college experience playing WR so I can't join people in thinking this has been a wonderful opportunity to play QB here just yet. Even worse, Hillis and Watson combined for 129 receptions in 2010 while both were hurt quite a bit in 2011.
I firmly believe the reason we never got 9 men out of the box was because we lacked a fear gear on the perimeter opposing defenses never had to respect. One of the best commentators we had in 2011 was Dan Fouts when he summarized what he saw in the first 3 quarters of football out in SF. He said I've watched Cleveland not run 1 single route downfield all day long as we head into the 4th quarter. I don't know how they expect their young QB to succeed under such circumstances. In the 4th quarter, there were 2 downfield throws. One was to Cribbs on the left sideline that resulted in a TD. The other was to to Greg Little wearing a corner on his inside hip in the end zone. The smaller DB outleaped Little for the INT to remind us we didn;t have AJ Green here to play gridiron chess with.
The Rich Gannon article says you can't develop a young QB splitting 21 starts with 2 different playbooks. If he's a midround prospect Holmgren didn't want to see the field before comfort, emergence doesn't get quicker.
While I adore what RGIII can offer - it doesn't change the troops leading the NFL in dropped passes any more than it changes the reality Cleveland has gaping holes in talent and depth all over the roster. Personally, I'd like us to remember the repercussions of trading away draft volumes and what injuries to do to us when 1st round guys like Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, William Green, Kellen Winslow II and Braylon Edwards have done to us.
I say we add a RDE, RT Mike Adams and a WR that know how to catch the football and get open. In doing so, can't we still draft a promising QB prospect like Nick Foles without trading away 1 pick? You bet we can! If you made it this far - thanks for bearing with me.
As you were,
-Flugel
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
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Welcome to the board ... glad to have you aboard. Nice post 
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I agree.. good first post. Prolly should have gone in any of the draft / RG threads but oh well.
I'm still undecided what I want. It's good for me to hear differing opinions. Look forward to reading more of your stuff..
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Welcome to the bored 
Joe Thomas #73
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Welcome to the board, just a few things ou said I'd like to comment on... Quote:
However, I swim against the currents of popular opinion in confessing I think McCoy can succeed with some decent surrounding talent.
That's not actually swimming against popular opinion, theres really only two peopel here that are extremely vocal about getting flat out rid of McCoy as starter, most others range from thinking he can be replaced to what you feel...
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can you imagine if we gave up 5-6 picks for either pick of the litter? How would playoffs have been possible?
We didn't really make the playoffs in 2002 on our draft picks anyways, Davis went FA crazy, hence why we were in cap hell in 03 and had to dump alot of people...
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Did Rich Gannon say it best that the ONLY difference between Colt McCoy and Andy Dalton is AJ Green?
I RARELY take anything Rich "Owfense" Gannon says seriously, he has somewhat of a point, but Dalton's arm strength (Red Rifle, ugh) is something McCoy will never have..
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I firmly believe the reason we never got 9 men out of the box was because we lacked a fear gear on the perimeter opposing defenses never had to respect. One of the best commentators we had in 2011 was Dan Fouts when he summarized what he saw in the first 3 quarters of football out in SF. He said I've watched Cleveland not run 1 single route downfield all day long as we head into the 4th quarter.
Maybe because our starter lacked the arm to get it downfield accurately without it turning into a jump ball situation?
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The Rich Gannon article says you can't develop a young QB splitting 21 starts with 2 different playbooks. If he's a midround prospect Holmgren didn't want to see the field before comfort, emergence doesn't get quicker.
So we should just start McCoy for 2-3 more years and "see what happens" ?
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Personally, I'd like us to remember the repercussions of trading away draft volumes and what injuries to do to us when 1st round guys like Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, William Green, Kellen Winslow II and Braylon Edwards have done to us.
We've only traded away "volumes" of draft picks once, and that was for Quinn, we sent a 2 for Winslow but beyond that, everyone else was of value, they just all sucked...
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I say we add a RDE, RT Mike Adams and a WR that know how to catch the football and get open. In doing so, can't we still draft a promising QB prospect like Nick Foles without trading away 1 pick? You bet we can! If you made it this far - thanks for bearing with me.
So you just want another mid round QB? Basically starting the Frye/McCoy process all over?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Welcome aboard, but I have a tough time believing anyone knows what he's talking about when it comes to this draft when he's advocating to draft Adams for RT  ...an underachieving, inconsistent, finesse OT without strength? He'll be drafted purely on "flash" ceiling that never materialized yet That was a rough "hello" wasn't it? Just wanted you to get accustomed to this board
#gmstrong
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Welcome,, and a great first post..
As for you swimming against the stream. not really.. we have a few guys that think we should give up the world to move up two spots.. only a few.
Most of us don't want to do that..We'll take RG at 4 if he's there and won't bat an eye,, but trading half this draft or even some of the next draft seems excessive to most of us.
So you aren't swimming upstream here.. not at all..
Again welcome,, really nice post.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I RARELY take anything Rich "Owfense" Gannon says seriously, he has somewhat of a point, but Dalton's arm strength (Red Rifle, ugh) is something McCoy will never have..
Yes, but regardless of what you personally think of Gannon, the guy played in the league and knows how things shake out, especially from the embattled QB perspective. Everything he has said about McCoy makes sense.
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So we should just start McCoy for 2-3 more years and "see what happens" ?
You can build a pretty damn good football team in that span if you utilize your picks wisely, manage the cap smartly and add some key FA's while resigning your own guys. This is how a team is built the right way, something we have failed to do here. If your opinion of Colt is he can't get any better with more experience and some decent talent, than yeah, you better get another QB too. Bottom line is you need to build a solid team, and you do that with picks and patience all around. The history of this league is littered with QB's who took time to develop, especially when they went to crappy teams. Some made it, some didn't, but you will never know if you don't get some talent with your available picks and allow the offensive scheme an opportunity to mature.
We just saw two teams with largely mediocre QB's who both should have played each other in the Super Bowl give or take a play here or there. Nowadays, it seems folks want instant success from QB's because of a couple rare examples, but a good football team will take you places itself. If an upgrade is in order at QB, then you figure a way to get it done. I love the RGIII kid myself, but we are in a good position here to solidify some really key positions. Imagine a stud across from Sheard! That dline would be set for years.
The mindset from many is that we have to get Griffin or it is a failure all around, and that is far from the case. I don't hold Colt's third round status against him, I look at it as a great investment if he indeed pans out. You have a late third rounder salary invested in your starting QB, this leaves you a great opportunity to address so many other areas from the lack of big time monies going toward a Bradford type etc. I realize most don't see it this way, they look at it as the kid hasn't lit it up yet in this debacle of an offense we ran, and him being a third rounder is the reason, but I think the kid can play, He needs at least a chance with a full offseason and some more talent to truly form an opinion on him as far as I am concerned. Point is, we may already have our QB here, this is not DA or Quinn we are talking about.
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Welcome aboard, but I have a tough time believing anyone knows what he's talking about when it comes to this draft when he's advocating to draft Adams for RT ...an underachieving, inconsistent, finesse OT without strength? He'll be drafted purely on "flash" ceiling that never materialized yet
That was a rough "hello" wasn't it? Just wanted you to get accustomed to this board
Regardless if you like Adams or not, this team needs to address RT in the draft and get on with having another bookend for years to come. I also disagree with your Adams assessment, he is athletic enough and could make the switch to RT. I wouldn't get too caught up in the bench press thing, he is a long armed guy but is far from a weak player on the field. The nice thing about a guy like Adams is you could still start Pashos when he doesn't have the sniffles or a hangnail and let Adams develop while he learns his new position. I hear people say that the RT needs to be a road grader type more than a pass blocker and I don't buy that for a second, the RT is huge in protection, especially with JT on the other side.
Teams will attack our RT instead, especially in our division. Carlos Dunlap absolutely annihilated Hicks and Cousins last year in game one for example, and this has to stop. We can get the inside fixed, but we need a RT that can pass block and get outside when whoever is QBing does planned rollouts. We got blown up last year on pretty much every one we tried to execute, and that gives the play no chance to develop.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/d..._medium=twitterMike Adams, T, Ohio State: 6-7, 323. Played just nine games his first two seasons because of injuries and then sat out first five games of 2011 on an NCAA suspension. "He has first-round ability, but I don't trust him," one scout said. "He's got talent and is immense, but he really isn't strong." Gargantuan hands (11 inches). "He played left tackle and can be a right tackle," another scout said. "He actually can play guard. He's got upside." Scouts have major reservations about his character. ...and I've read stuff like that numerous times the past weeks and multiple "inconsistent" reports from SR Bowl week etc....for me consistency is the most important trait for any OL...I don't care if Adams can pancake his DL for 20 plays in a row when he has it going if he gets lazy and gets beaten like a rented mule on the next 20...I'd rather have someone who doesn't look as impressive but gets the job done also, his "strengths" seem to indicate more that he's a LT than RT but that's the least of my concerns with him...underachieving OTs with those kind of profiles, who should be top 10 players but slip to 20-50 range bust at an incredibly high rate....here are some names, that fit Adams-like profiles....remember them? Alex Barron Khalif Barnes Winston Justice Tony Ugoh Jeff Otah Jason Smith Eugene Monroe Michael Oher Most of these guys were picked in the 1st, some even top 10, 3 fell to theö2nd...you like your chances now that a "talented" Mr Adams who hasn't even come close to play at that supposed "talent" shows up for work when he signs a multi million contract? Why should he change his lazy work habits if he still got millions for being a huge dude? Nah, I'l let someone else roll the dice and hope for the neyt M.Oher, who was a much better College player btw...I only included him because he still was considered as not finished/raw yet...he had a much better work ethic though, which was the reason I wanted to draft him instead of Mack..oh well
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Quote:
Welcome,, and a great first post..
As for you swimming against the stream. not really.. we have a few guys that think we should give up the world to move up two spots.. only a few.
Most of us don't want to do that..We'll take RG at 4 if he's there and won't bat an eye,, but trading half this draft or even some of the next draft seems excessive to most of us.
So you aren't swimming upstream here.. not at all..
Again welcome,, really nice post.
+1
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Can you repeat the middle part?
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Welcome aboard Mr. Flugel from Nashville.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Thanks for the warm welcome folks! I like fraternity initiations too Djangobrown. Character is an enormous thing to take serious so I get where you are coming from Django. It's definitely worthy of note. Having said that, I try to think of all the immature things I did as a 18-21 year old kid; and I'm glad they never prevented me from getting hired after college. Some of the people I attended college with who didn't work hard or even go to classes went onto become some of the most successful people I know. Therefore, Mike Adams is just one idea I had after watching him ragdoll Courtney Upshaw into non-existence mode in the 2nd half at the Senior Bowl. He owned him in a duty where you can't be lazy to do such a thing. In fact, Mike Mayock was getting impressed enough to share video footage of him just bullying many of the country's top DEs he faced in one on one pass protection drills during the week. Compelling stuff from where I sat to see the levers of a 6'8" giant just being what we long for at our other tackle spot. Even better, we don't have to spend our 4th overall pick or our 22nd pick on him. Maybe this character thing gives him a fanny kick to round 3 and we draft a kid pissed off with something to prove. Wouldn't that be nice to draft a kid with an agenda to prove he's a great pick in lieu of the next Big Money type drafted way too high? I'm glad I could clarify where I'd see him as a potentially good choice. You want him in an area where's motivated to prove everyone wrong; but not late enough to see him doing that in a Steelers' uniform. As for 2nd round tackles thing, Chad Clifton and Matt Light have done better than many first round tackles. Jeff Otah wasn't that bad pre-injury when we factor DeAngelo Williams and their other first round RB that helped run them into the playoffs with a nice record despite a passing game looking retired the last time Carolina made the playoffs. Work ethics can be false advertised every bit as much as at all costs shortcut takers. Tony Mandarach and Mike Mamula once packed the work ethics everybody was supposed to have or was it misunderstood and disguised as any cost mentality? Poor Lindy Infante got fired regardless of how bright his offensive mindset was. In the pre-draft poker season - teams have to be careful to refrain from rumors and make sure they are thorough. I remembered a last minute rumor that said AP would require a season ending shoulder surgery before his rookie season would ever get off the ground. Guess what? That never happened despite it coming from 1 unnamed scout. What a way to play up Peterson's college durability issues - a scout said so. Want to bet that unnamed scout worked for Minnesota? I am NOT a draft expert and never will be - so reading any further is completely optional. When a team in our shoes begins to contemplate trading up for 1 guy, it gives me a dejavue back into the early 70s. We wanted a franchise QB with all the prototypicals possessed by Mike Phipps and were willing to do whatever was necessary. Miami felt like they just wanted to add roster balance so they said we'll give you the 3rd overall pick for that 4.3 perimeter speed and talent of Paul Warfield. What nobody saw coming regardless of era was that in order to stop Larry Csonka, Mercury Morris and Jim Kiick - they needed to cheat 1-2 Safeties in the box. Miami didn't care if they had Grandpa Morral or Bob Griese throwing to Warfield over the top - it was uncontested. I realize this is not the 70s, but 5 of the first 8 teams drafting in 2012 have a first round QB they need to help. And guess who had to eventually bail Cleveland out of a Phipps induced depression? A 13th round draft pick named Brian Sipe who allegedly didn't have an NFL arm or prototypical height. Has any QB since Otto Graham given us an MVP season or is Sipe the only one? The other time we traded up for a first round QB was for the alleged pro ready Brady Quinn. Against the military academies he looked pro ready but against LSU - he looked like poor Charlie Frye staring into the teeth of Pittsburgh's front 7. Thank God we had another 1st round pick in Joe Thomas. Unfortunately, in 2008 our first draft selection didn't come until round 4 and we ended up with 1 keeper in that draft. So you can only imagine how exciting 4 draft picks scheduled for 2009 was without a real NFL GM onsite to orchestrate it all. I think mismanagement of the draft is why we need to go carpet diem on the opportunity in front of us. I'm excited! I often hear you cannot compare eras and I agree. However, besides an infrequent/rare Matt Ryan case - promising QBs going to bad franchises usually go through inevitable growing pains and losing. Changing playbooks in the middle of the first 21 starts only sets back the development process, 5 of the first 8 teams drafting have 1st round QBs needing surrounding help. There's 6 teams with young QBs needing help if you count Cleveland. I think the worst thing you could do to any of these young passers is remove 4-5 high round draft picks. If we draft RGIII, we're still looking to MoMass and Greg Little to represent favorable matchups, which invites Hail Mary prayers on virtually every play in my opinion. When these guys aren't running themselves into traffic - they're dropping passes in the only way they were capable of leading the league in anything. Now we probably also have to worry about replacing Peyton Hillis (who could end up in Cincy). He had over 61 receptions in 2010 so that's a nice WCO type of RB they would love to add. 
Last edited by Ottomatic Flugel; 03/04/12 10:54 AM.
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I don't know you very well, but you have made me a believer..
I won't be alone, but the opponents of your thinking are pretty loud.. prepare yourself...LOL
This should be fun..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Welcomes to both O. Flugel and Riffer. Its nice to see some new posters, and well-written posts.
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Quote:
Welcome aboard Mr. Flugel from Nashville.
Really nice to see you again Ballpeen! I'm renewing season tickets to Vandy so my invite to you stands when the Gators return.
Some guy spotted me wearing a Cleveland Browns shirt and a Vandy Football hat with an ear to ear grin. He said, now THAT is loyalty to his family and friends. Feeling like a poster boy for summer school, I said: no I just don't like teams that score offensive TDs. As if it couldn't get any worse, then he asked me why. I replied - "they're just too offensive."
Thanks for the kind words Damanshot, Dave and others!
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Since the RG3 thread was closed, I guess I'll put this here. It's a story from the St. Louis Dispatch, the most gleaning comment is our unwillingness to use our #22 in trade for RG3. In a perfect world at Rams Park, this is the week the team finalizes a trade-down from the No. 2 spot in the draft. Granted, the actual trade can’t be executed until March 13, the start of the free agency and training period. But you always can agree to terms before that — or at least get close to that — which is what the Rams would like to do before free agents hit the market. Or before teams have much of a chance to kick the tires on Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning. Manning is due a $28 million roster bonus March 8, a bonus the Colts almost certainly aren’t going to pay given Manning’s neck problems. Unless there’s a restructured contract between now and then, which also appears highly unlikely, Manning will be released and become a free agent. He could be joined on March 13 by prospective free agents Jason Campbell of Oakland, Matt Flynn of Green Bay, Kyle Orton of Kansas City and Alex Smith of San Francisco. The Packers (Flynn) still can use a franchise tag to keep their quarterback. The 49ers can’t, because they used the tag on safety Dashon Goldson. The Saints’ Drew Brees was taken off that market Saturday when he received the ‘‘franchise’’ tag. So there could be more options for quarterback-needy teams over the next 10 days, meaning it won’t be as much of a seller’s market for Baylor’s Robert Griffin III (and the Rams’ No. 2 pick). Working in the Rams’ favor, however, is the rookie wage scale instituted for the 2011 draft class. The No. 2 pick in last year’s draft, linebacker Von Miller, signed a four-year, $21 million deal with Denver, a huge savings over the last No. 2 pick under the old system, defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh. He signed a five-year, $68 million deal with Detroit. If the Rams are successful in trading out, and Griffin indeed is the No. 2 pick this year, he will get a contract similar to Miller. And that figures to be a lot cheaper than any contract signed by Manning, if he reaches the market, and maybe even be cheaper than any deal Flynn gets in free agency. So far, however, the quarterback-needy teams don’t seem to be in a hurry to get Griffin. They might be waiting to see what happens with Manning, Flynn and the others. They might be waiting to do their due diligence and watch Griffin throw at his pro day March 21. In the meantime, the Rams are talking and will continue to talk with potential trade partners. According to league sources, this was the trade landscape entering the weekend: • Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.• Washington (No. 6): The Redskins appear willing to trade their first-round pick next year, as well as their No. 6 overall pick this year. But they aren’t willing to include their second-rounder this year, which isn’t acceptable to the Rams. • Miami (No. 8): This one appears to be dead in the water, somewhere off Florida’s Gold Coast. After losing the tug-of-war for coach Jeff Fisher, the Dolphins aren’t eager to do business with the Rams — or do the Rams any favors. • Seattle (No. 12): No chance. The last thing the Rams want to do is send RG3 to a division rival and face him twice a year. The same applies for Arizona, which picks 13th. The Rams don’t deny there are a few “mystery” teams they’re talking to, but the two serious contenders remain Cleveland and Washington. And Washington continues to rate as the frontrunner, in part because it’s an organization that hasn’t been shy about making the big move under owner Dan Snyder. The same can’t be said about Cleveland, although the Browns do have the “tie-breaker” edge. If offers from the Browns and the Redskins end up being close, the Browns have the edge because they pick a couple spots higher. The Rams seem to be using as their model the 2004 draft day trade between San Diego, which had the No. 1 pick, and the New York Giants, at No. 4. In essence, the teams swapped first-round picks, with the Giants also sending San Diego a third-round pick in ’04, and first- and fifth-round picks in the ’05 draft. (Before the trade, the Chargers had drafted Eli Manning at No. 1 even though Manning had stated he didn’t want to play for San Diego. The Giants had selected Philip Rivers at No. 4. So those players were actually swapped and not the blank draft picks.) Under that model, if the Redskins were to offer that second-rounder in this year’s draft, plus their first-rounders this year and next, the Rams just might call it a deal. Media reports about the Rams reaping three or four first-rounders for Griffin are very optimistic. Griffin might be charming and talented ... .but not that charming and talented. The danger in moving down to the sixth spot with Washington is that it might move the Rams out of range of Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon and Louisiana State cornerback Morris Claiborne. It’s generally considered a “six-player” draft — meaning there are six elite players at the top: quarterbacks Andrew Luck of Stanford and Griffin; offensive tackle Matt Kalil of Southern California; Blackmon; Claiborne; and running back Trent Richardson of Alabama. That could result in a situation where the quarterbacks go 1-2, the Minnesota Vikings taking Kalil at No. 3, Cleveland — after missing out on Griffin — settling for Blackmon at No. 4 and Tampa Bay taking Claiborne at No. 5. That would leave the Rams at No. 6 and only Richardson remaining among the “elite six.” With Steven Jackson still productive at running back, and Richardson coming off knee surgery, would taking Richardson really be the way to go for the Rams? Of course, they always could attempt to trade down again out of the six-hole. Perhaps to a team that just has to have Richardson. Perhaps to a team that wants Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill, who’s generally regarded as the third-best QB in the draft. If that’s the case, the Rams would be trading out of elite-prospect territory into the realm of the “very good,” which can be a dangerous place to go. Then again, in any given draft, about half of the elite prospects never turn into elite NFL players. It’s a lot for the Rams to think about between now and the draft, and even between now and March 13. St. Louis Dispatch
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Question for all of the people who want McCoy replaced: what realistic numbers would you be happy with next year if the Browns decided to stay the course with him?
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Maybe because our starter lacked the arm to get it downfield accurately without it turning into a jump ball situation? -- OSGuy
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I RARELY take anything Rich "Owfense" Gannon says seriously, he has somewhat of a point, but Dalton's arm strength (Red Rifle, ugh) is something McCoy will never have.-- OSGuy
OS, I missed this earlier or thought I replied (still getting adjusted to this board lol). Anyway, let's look at the stats comparison between Dalton and Colt. For one thing, Dalton was on a team two years removed from sweeping the division, yet we all heard the absurdity before the season began on how bad Cincitucky would be. Add in AJ Green, a mostly healthy Benson and the emergence of the weed dealer/summersault guy Simpson, along with a solid oline and good TE in Gresham. What you ended up with were the follwoing;
Dalton-- 16 games, 3398 yards, 20 TDs and 13 picks, 6.6 YPP, 80.4 rating
McCoy--13 games, 2703 yards, 14 TDs and 11 picks, 5.9 YPP, 74.6 rating
Now factor in AJ Green the most, especially go back to the jump ball that Dalton threw up against us when Green went up and got the ball that basically won them the game. You factor in a few more of those plays during the year, and there is your slight stat differential from Dalton to McCoy even though Dalton was on a much better team with many more weapons and less injuries.
The arm thing is big time overrated IMO, especially when comparing Dalton versus McCoy.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/d..._medium=twitter
Mike Adams, T, Ohio State: 6-7, 323. Played just nine games his first two seasons because of injuries and then sat out first five games of 2011 on an NCAA suspension. "He has first-round ability, but I don't trust him," one scout said. "He's got talent and is immense, but he really isn't strong." Gargantuan hands (11 inches). "He played left tackle and can be a right tackle," another scout said. "He actually can play guard. He's got upside." Scouts have major reservations about his character.
...and I've read stuff like that numerous times the past weeks and multiple "inconsistent" reports from SR Bowl week etc....for me consistency is the most important trait for any OL...I don't care if Adams can pancake his DL for 20 plays in a row when he has it going if he gets lazy and gets beaten like a rented mule on the next 20...I'd rather have someone who doesn't look as impressive but gets the job done
also, his "strengths" seem to indicate more that he's a LT than RT but that's the least of my concerns with him...underachieving OTs with those kind of profiles, who should be top 10 players but slip to 20-50 range bust at an incredibly high rate....here are some names, that fit Adams-like profiles....remember them?
Alex Barron
Khalif Barnes
Winston Justice
Tony Ugoh
Jeff Otah
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
Michael Oher
Most of these guys were picked in the 1st, some even top 10, 3 fell to the 2nd...you like your chances now that a "talented" Mr Adams who hasn't even come close to play at that supposed "talent" shows up for work when he signs a multi million contract? Why should he change his lazy work habits if he still got millions for being a huge dude? Nah, I'l let someone else roll the dice and hope for the neyt M.Oher, who was a much better College player btw...I only included him because he still was considered as not finished/raw yet...he had a much better work ethic though, which was the reason I wanted to draft him instead of Mack..oh well
Django, good points but I disagree, Adams is a flat out player and has huge upside. He has grown into a man and will continue to mature and get stronger and better.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81712&draftyear=2012&genpos=OT
Mike Adams, DS #4 OT, Ohio State
Name: Mike Adams (+) Coming off knee injury
College: Ohio State Number: 75
Height: 6-7 Weight: 323
Position: OT Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2012
40 Time: 5.40 40 Low: 5.24 40 High: 5.49
Projected Round: 1-2 Stock:
Rated number 4 out of 217 OT's 33 / 2822 TOTAL
Combine Results Pro Day Results
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6070
Weight: 323
40 Yrd Dash: 5.40
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 19
Vertical Jump: 28 1/2
Broad Jump: 08'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.95
3-Cone Drill: 7.94
Dates: 03/09/12
Height: 6070
Weight: 323
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill:
Draft Scout Snapshot: Pre-2011: One of five OSU players suspended for first five games of 2011 due to NCAA rule violation of receiving improper benefits. 2010: Started all 13 games at left tackle, earning first team all-Big Ten accolades from coaches, media … Jim Parker lineman of week: Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa. 2009: Charged with running stop sign and misdemeanor drug paraphernalia in January 2009, paid fine for traffic violation but tested negative for any drug so that charge was dropped when police agreed pipe was for smoking tobacco … suspended first two games for violation of team rules … played six games, starting four in the middle of the season … missed three games because of a knee injury … scout team workhorse: USC. 2008: Played in four games as a true freshman until sidelined by shoulder injury.
Mike Adams/Ohio State football Videos
Draft Scout Mike Adams News
02/25/12 - One of the more eagerly anticipated workouts of the Scouting Combine each year occurs when the offensive (and defensive) linemen perform in the bench press drill. This is not a test measured to test a player's maximum bench press but rather their strength and conditioning. Athletes are asked to lift 225 pounds as many times as possible without stopping. While scouts would love to see every offensive lineman lift the bar 30 times or more at the Combine, the reality is there is a significant difference in the strength required for different offensive line positions. Those athletes with enough size, foot quickness and balance to play left tackle in the NFL, for example, don't necessarily need as much upper body strength as the other offensive linemen - especially interior linemen. Due to this fact, the relatively low number posted by Ohio State tackle Mike Adams (19) isn't necessarily a critical blow to his draft stock if a team feels that he has the athleticism to handle remaining at left tackle in the NFL. If he was to make the move to right tackle (where I believe he fits best), the number is a bit troubling. Traditionally, left defensive ends (who line up opposite right tackles) are the stronger, stouter versions of their more explosive pass rushing specialist right defensive ends - at least for the 4-3 defense. Also, because of Adams' long arms (33 3/4") his football strength isn't necessarily indicated by weight room numbers. Remember, three offensive tackles drafted in the first round last year - Nate Solder (21), James Carpenter (23) and Derek Sherrod (23) - posted similar totals at the 2011 Combine. Adams, by the way, is currently NFLDraftScout.com's No. 4 rated offensive tackle. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com
02/23/12 - NFL DRAFT SCOUT PRE-COMBINE TOP 64: 25. Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State, 6-7, 323, 1-2...Adams has a substantial frame with conspicuous muscle in the right places and the footwork of a dancer, albeit more like hip hop than ballet. At this point he lacks the great technique that would make him a reliable left tackle to protect a right handed quarterback's blind side. Given time he certainly could learn. Meantime, Adams already moves well enough to get into linebackers on the second level. On film he did well handling Wisconsin's J. J. Watt (Drafted No. 11 overall by Texas last year), but was befuddled by the nifty moves of Purdue's Ryan Kerrigan (Drafted 16 overall by Washington last year). Adams has a history of issues on and off the field. He underwent shoulder surgery and then a season-ending left foot injury, both in 2008. Adams missed five games in 2009 with knee injury and was suspended for two games the same year for violating team rules. He as one of five players suspended first five games last year for receiving benefits from selling collectibles through a tattoo parlor and had to pay back $1,000 he received for a ring. - Frank Cooney - The Sports Xchange, NFL Draft Scout
02/23/12 - Mike Adams, the starting left tackle at Ohio State for the past two seasons, says the Browns have talked to him about playing right tackle. If draft projections are correct, Adams will be picked in the first round, which means the Browns would have to use the 22nd pick to get him, which means not trading the pick. “A couple teams have talked to me about it — Cleveland and Washington,” Adams said on Thursday at the NFL scouting combine. “I’m open to do whatever a team needs me to do. “Whatever team I go to, it’s a blessing. Just to be in the position to even be drafted is something I can’t even explain with words. As a little kid playing football since I was six, it’s always been my dream. No matter where I go, I’ll be just fine.” Adams, 6-foot-7, 323 pounds, was part of Tattoogate. He was suspended the first five games of 2011 but started the next eight. He started 13 of 13 games in 2010. Adams was suspended for two games as a freshman for violating unspecified team rules. Adams said he learned from his mistakes and is hopeful teams will look past his transgressions. “I’ve had some bumps in the road early in my career. But I’ve let those things build my character rather than break it down,” Adams said. “My character is something my teammates and coaches at Ohio State will vouch for. Anybody who knows me knows I’m not a bad guy.” - Jeff Schudel, The News-Herald
02/16/12 - Ohio State's Adams seems to have convinced teams that he might be able to play at left tackle at a high level. A few weeks ago, we noted in the weekly draft column, per discussions with scouts, that Adams might be a better prospect at right tackle. But after reviewing videotape, there are some clubs that concede the OSU star will be a left tackle prospect. Beyond the video, it's believed that Adams has helped himself as well in casual conversations with some NFL people, who are impressed by his football smarts, overall knowledge of the game, and his even demeanor. - Len Pasquarelli, The Sports Xchange
02/13/12 - With the deserved hype being afforded top-shelf offensive tackles such as Matt Kalil (USC), Jonathan Martin (Stanford), and Riley Reiff (Iowa) for the draft, Ohio State's Mike Adams has kind of gotten lost in the shuffle. But there are scouts who feel that, while the others will definitely go off the board in the first round, Adams will be a steal in the second or third stanzas. Adams is playing in the Senior Bowl, and it will be interesting to follow his progress, this week, but he seemed to pass the early week "eyeball test," and could be a candidate for some team at right tackle. Sure, right tackle prospects don't necessarily rate as first rounders -- remember, Tyron Smith of Dallas, a first-rounder in 2011, was actually drafted that high for his long-term projection on the left side -- and that won't help Adams. Nor will he be aided by some red flags on his resume, including a suspension in 2011, but any team that put on the tape of him might be impressed by his strength and decent feet. And there were a few people at the Senior Bowl who felt like Adams, who checked in at 323 pounds, could end up playing at 340. So, while it's understandable for scouts to be impressed with some of the other tackles, no one should dismiss Adams, either. - Len Pasquarelli, The Sports Xchange
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"Does Howdy Doody got Wooden balls, man?"
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RGIII > McCoy. Doesn't mean I won't be on board with the team if they stick with Colt and get some playmakers. But short of giving up the farm, I would like to have Griffin.
Good first post Tom - nicely done.
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• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
Most excellent. Heckert is keeping these guys off balance. He knows he holds some nice cards and is not afraid to bluff. As I've said time and again, we cannot make these decisions until we see what happens in Pro-days, ongoing Cap cuts and FA.
Until then, any discussions are just wishful thinking and exercises in pre-kindergarten logic.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Question for all of the people who want McCoy replaced: what realistic numbers would you be happy with next year if the Browns decided to stay the course with him?
Good thinking. How about the way Jeff Fisher is going about his QB situation? He inherits a QB less efficient than McCoy in a much easier division than the AFC North. They've committed over 50 million $ worth of contract to their former Big 12 Heisman Trophy QB. Aside from that, they drafted 3 WRs in 2011 and added FA Mike Sims-Walker plus Brandon Lloyd about 1 month into it all. He seemingly isn't choosing start over with another QB. He's choosing to do what Dallas did for Troy Aikman and get a Herschel Walker trade so that it doesn't take as long as it took in SF.
Meanwhile, Cleveland gave McCoy a RB turned WR with about 1 year of college experience playing WR as well as the perceived lesser of 2 evils between MoMass and Brian Robiskie. Many wondered why Josh Cribbs was always better at taking a direct snap and running the football after he did the same thing for 4 years in college. Again, he had zero WR training in college plus what Greg Little had. Cribbs is finally looking like a nice 3rd WR if we can only add the right #1 WR to open doors for others. Little may transition into a nice #2 but he didn't look like he understood the playbook or enjoyed running slant patterns toward a Donte Whitner and Patrick Willis. That'll promote taking the eyes off the football and drops. You add a talented deep threat and all of a sudden you find space instead of crowds underneath. You also challenge defensive zone transitions and depths, which current personnel could not do very often.
It always seemed like the teams with the best passing games have multiple choice of favorable matchups to exploit on any given play, not to be confused with looking for the least of all evils. Every Sunday I used to ask myself and buddies who I wanted to see us showcase. When 2010 leaders Watson and Hillis (combined for 129 receptions) were sidelined in 2011, was USC backup TE Cameron the weapon or was it MoMass or Little? Can you imagine how fun that was to play QB with?
Now try to understand the guy calling plays never even saw or heard the shot McCoy took from James Harrison to understand what playing chess with pawns feels like when blindfolded. 3 good moves were adding an OC that will watch the field from above. We're keeping the same playbook for a QB 21 starts old. We're also adding draft volume that can help us play gridiron chess with less pawns.
Try to remember Drew Brees ending his 3rd NFL season in San Diego sporting the worst record in the NFL with a passer rating of 66. Adding guys like Antonio Gates and Keenan McCardell to Tomlinson made them go from 1 attack prong to 3. Unfortunately, there was a conclusion made that they needed to draft an elite franchise QB with their first overall pick even if that guy Eli was saying I'm not coming to San Diego. Long story short, hotshot QB Rivers heldout and San Diego ended up 1 big play away from great things in their first post season behind Brees. Did they ever need to knee jerk or could that first overall pick have been the difference between making the playoffs and making the Superbowl? Think about about it. New Orleans owns a Lombardi Trophy that San Diego still longs for today.
San Diego misdiagnosed the symptoms of a headache for skull opening surgery on a brain tumor that didn't exist. Turns out all they really needed was 3 advil to treat the same headache all young QBs on bad teams are capable of. Right now, we're 2 years into McCoy where the only conclusion I can comfortably see is we have incomplete assessment criteria. What I don't want to see Cleveland looking like is that old Tampa team that used to send Steve Young, Doug Williams,and Vinny Testaverde off to take their very next teams to at least 1 playoff victory and as deep as a Superbowl Championship.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
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• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
Most excellent. Heckert is keeping these guys off balance. He knows he holds some nice cards and is not afraid to bluff. As I've said time and again, we cannot make these decisions until we see what happens in Pro-days, ongoing Cap cuts and FA.
Until then, any discussions are just wishful thinking and exercises in pre-kindergarten logic.
Good points SaintDawg and Tulsa!
Vegas, glad to see you here!
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
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Legend
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Really nice to see you again Ballpeen! I'm renewing season tickets to Vandy so my invite to you stands when the Gators return.
Thanks man. It's always good to see old friends resurface. It was a pleasant surprise to see both you and Riff when I posted this morning.
Stick around, you'll like the board. This is where I hang 75% of the time as it is really good talk in a structured forum....no cussing, no fights that just last forever....the mods here are fair and mostly do a great job.
The other board is my tailgate board. I like to hang with Stan, Ed, and Don for most of my tailgate adventures since they throw the tailgate and do pass the hat for those who show up empty handed food wise. It's just a pain to lug up all my cooking gear .
I have a couple of guys here I join a time or two a year, Columbus dawg and Saint dawg. They won't let me pay, and I don't consider bringing some sort of liquor and stogies a form of payment, that's simply camaraderie, and I don't like to walk away feeling like a mooch , so I don't join them as much...though I did refuse payment for a ticket, so that sort of covered last year.
Either way, I win, both are great groups to hang with.
Now I am getting carried away, simply put, great to see you again my man!
Hey....you are supposed to attend a Browns game with me as I recall. That's how the Gator invite happened.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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They won't let me pay
No we don't. Thats just silly. 
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and I don't consider bringing some sort of liquor and stogies a form of payment, that's simply camaraderie
Finally he gets one right.
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and I don't like to walk away feeling like a mooch , so I don't join them as much...though I did refuse payment for a ticket, so that sort of covered last year.
Methinks the Peenster over-thinks things a bit here.. he's always welcome at our tailgates. I'm actually thinking about a road trip to Chattanooga this summer during pre-season to one of my favorite camp sites.. catch a game on TV and have Peen visit.. maybe even the River fest they have down there. 
SaintDawg™
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Question for all of the people who want McCoy replaced: what realistic numbers would you be happy with next year if the Browns decided to stay the course with him?
My comments are going to be about McCoy only. There are other areas and positions on offense that can also improve, but the question was about McCoy, so that is the question I will answer. If anyone does not want to read such comments, then stop here.
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For me it's not all about raw numbers.
Last year I saw a lot of bad QB play. It was McCoy's first year in the WCO, and I know that it's a complicated offense to learn, however most of my problems with the way he play have nothing to do with that aspect of the game.
I want to see the receivers brought into the game, with proper throws to all levels. I want to see receivers led towards open areas, instead of into having their heads taken off. I want to see long plays down the field when they are wide, wide open. I would like to see better accuracy from the pocket to receivers in motion, running down field. (which I think was a real weakness last year) McCoy is far, far better at throwing to stationary targets. His accuracy suffers quite a bit when throwing to targets in motion.
I think that the little sit down with Gruden dispelled the myth that this offense doesn't have routes down the field. Not every play has a go route, but many do, and it's up to the QB to read that single coverage on the outside and make the throw.
While the WCO does not necessarily require great arm strength, I want to see McCoy improve in this area on throws down the field. He cannot make long throws off his back foot. Those ducks turn into plays that give us all heart attacks. I want to see his WR screens thrown with more authority and snap. Same for the quick outs. While these throws don't necessarily need to be laser shots, they do need zip on the pass it they can go the other way in a hurry.
I want to see better control of the game from the pocket. The WCO, as run by Shurmur, is not a shotgun offense. Shurmur does like to run the ball more than some other WCO acolytes, which is a large part of his preference to keep the QB under Center. McCoy was, by far, more efficient when he was moving out of the pocket, or playing from the shotgun. That won't work in this offense. He'll be under Center at least half the time, and needs to learn how to make that adjustment. He also needs to learn how to find throwing lanes. I do believe that at least some of McCoy's struggles last year was due to the fact that he struggled finding lanes to see the field, and throw through. He is a shorter QB, and nothing will change that. However, that means that he needs to learn these skills far better than a taller QB would.
I want to see less confusion from McCoy. While everyone is new to the offense, it was obvious at times that McCoy was lost out there.
If he can do these things, then he would be a vastly improved QB, no matter what the numbers say. Of course, I believe that the numbers would improve as a result of better play ..... and if I had to choose one number for him to improve, I would especially want to see improvement in is the yards/pass attempt. Anything under 6 is anemic, and even that is barely breathing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Methinks the Peenster over-thinks things a bit here.. he's always welcome at our tailgates. I'm actually thinking about a road trip to Chattanooga this summer during pre-season to one of my favorite camp sites.. catch a game on TV and have Peen visit.. maybe even the River fest they have down there.
Be sure and upload the vid of you and peen river dancing.
#GMSTRONG
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Methinks the Peenster over-thinks things a bit here.. he's always welcome at our tailgates. I'm actually thinking about a road trip to Chattanooga this summer during pre-season to one of my favorite camp sites.. catch a game on TV and have Peen visit.. maybe even the River fest they have down there.
Be sure and upload the vid of you and peen river dancing.
That would make a cute couple I bet.
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Lol have to admit I expected to read the same thing from you that I have been reading but this was your best post by far on the subject. You explain what you would like to see him improve on instead of what you think he cant do. Well done. To the OP I am not against giving up some picks if the FO feels RG3 is the future of this franchise but as many here I dont want to give up the farm. I have personally make my stance known I like next years draft class better and would be fine going into this season with McCoy under center because I dont think we are going to win more then 6 games anyway. Glad to hear the FO is playing a little hard ball with the Rams.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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Actually I didn't say anything that I haven't said before.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Actually I didn't say anything that I haven't said before.
I'm not sure you've ever been asked to say what you want to see from McCoy should he be the guy next season.. Ususally, you just tell everyone that Colt Can't do X and will never be able too.. Or things of that nature. this was different.. thanks
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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San Diego misdiagnosed the symptoms of a headache for skull opening surgery on a brain tumor that didn't exist. Turns out all they really needed was 3 advil to treat the same headache all young QBs on bad teams are capable of.
Also, to say we shouldn't read this Dawgtalker because he likes Mike Adams is ridiculous and not just because I like Mike Adams too. It's an opinion.
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Legend
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Since this seems to be the default QB thread, I thought that I would post this here. This is John Clayton discussing a variety of topics. RG3 is discussed starting at 9:45. http://mynorthwest.com/category/pod_player_sports/?a=39763&p=21&n=Cold%20Hard%20FactsRams will stay with Bradford, no question about it. (Duh) Seems to think that it's a 2 team race between Washington and Cleveland. "Do you see RG3 playing under Mike Holmgren in Cleveland?" "I can see it, yeah. In fact if Mike Holmgren doesn't do it he's crazy." "If you are going to have Colt McCoy as your QB, what QB are you going to find in the next couple of years that can, at least, have you compete on a level playing field with Ben Roethlisberger, with uh, Joe Flacco, and also, now, a developing Andy Dalton. You've got to find someone. Colt McCoy can't do it. They're gonna finish 4th. At least with Robert Griffin III, maybe it'll take a year for him to at least get in there, but now you have the kind of talent, a Steve Young kind of talent, that you can compete against those teams who right now are better at QB than the Cleveland Browns." Anyway ..... those are the Browns highlights. There's some free agency stuff in there, and he seems to think that the Saints could have to dismantle a large section of their team to keep Brees.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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very good post.
I've said all along theres more that ails the Browns offensive ineptness than just Colt McCoy.
The Browns so called intelligent 2 headed monster of Holmgren and Heckert did nothing in terms of making upgrades to the offense.
they tried to sell the fact to the masses that this new offense would actually turn WRs like Briana Robiskie and Mohommed Massaqiou into actual game changers.
Now you throw in players like Greg Little and Josh Cribbs who are still trying to transition to the WR position.
among the 4,there wasn't one that defenses had to dedicate any special coverage to. none of the 4 were capable of "blowing the lid off a secondary"
you figure there was one player that McCoy could count on to make a catch and make something happen after a catch.
Not even the elder statesman of the TE's Ben Watson could supply that.
Watson is savy enough to find openings underneath but he had the dropsies.
Jordan Cameron was a wasted a 4th RD pick.
There were better options in the 4th RD.
Brandon Jackson was a good idea for the offense as a 3rd down RB with hands is a tremendous asset.
he gets hurt,so what does Heckert do.....nothing.
so now Colt McCoy has really a mish mosh of 3rd and 4th tier options at WR/TE/RB. last in the league in rushing and leading the league in drops.
now you throw in a offensive line that doesn't run block well and the interior that gets constantly pushed back in the pocket.
you get a running game that cannot offset the inability of the passing game to attack vertically.
to add to it,Shurmur is inexperianced as a play caller.
He got out schemed in every game.
with his inexperiance,he went into conservative mode. Nothing helps a defense more than predicatibility on offense.
so now everyone expects McCoy to overcome all these things and yet forgetting he's a 3rd RD pick.
did anyone expect McCoy to overcome the stupid decisions that Holmgren and Heckert imposed on the offensive side of the ball?
now most people think if the Browns draft RG3,these issues will simply go away like a magician with a wand.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,857 |
Let me break it down for you all so you don't have to listen to it
McCoy, Bad
RG3, Good
Holmgren takes RG3, Good
Holmgren Sticks with McCoy, Bad
Another talking head.. You can thank me later....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Quote:
Can you repeat the middle part?
A Fish Called Wanda? Anyone?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
Quote:
Quote:
• Cleveland (No. 4 pick): The Browns are unwilling at this point to include their second first-round pick, No. 22, as part of any trade package with the Rams.
Most excellent. Heckert is keeping these guys off balance. He knows he holds some nice cards and is not afraid to bluff.
I hope keeping #22 isn't a bluff. The skins can't touch what we have- 4 instead of 6, 37 instead of 39. And then next years first i would assume would need to be included. Its anybodies guess where that lands. A couple later rounds picks is no big deal.
Could take that #22, maybe trade back and recover that second round pick.
That's about all i would do for RGIII- Swap firsts, give up #37 and next years first, and throw in a fourth or so. That is a steep price. And if Washington doesn't want to include this years second, i don't see how this offer could be turned down. Even if the skins are offering 3 first round picks- i would say that second rounder this year is more valuable then a first round pick three years from now.
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