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I'm a little bored with all the trade UP talk, and usually am a trade BACK kind of guy... And beyond the boring "Trade back to 6 and pick up a 2 blah blah" thing, I was just thinking about some somewhat very rare chance of coming together type trades.. For fun mostly... Cleveland trades with Dallas and "Someone else"...After Dan Snyder offers the moon for RG3, and Minny takes Kalil, we're sitting there with Blackmon, Claiborne, and Richardson... Suddenly the phone rings, It's Jerry Jones! He needs some secondary help and wants the best DB in the draft no matter the price! (Jerry likes to make noise) Dallas Gets: #4 Atl's 4th Round Cleveland Gets: #14 Dallas 3rd Round Dallas 5th Round Dallas 2013 1st Round Dallas 2013 3rd Round Then as #22 comes up, we get ANOTHER phone call, I'm not going to name names (because I don't honestly know any) But let's just say this team desperately wants a specific player at 22, So what happens is... Random Team Gets: #22 Cleveland Gets: Random Teams 2nd Round pick Random Teams 2013 1st Round pick Random Teams 2013 4th Round pick In Conclusion, Cleveland would then have... 2012 #14 (2) 2nds (2) 3rds (1) 4th (2) 5ths (2) 6ths 2013 (3) 1sts(1) 2nd (2) 3rds (2) 4ths etc... phew *wipes brow* I know what you're thinking (  ) and while the probability of this happening to the 4th decimal is probably .0000, just think how fun Draft day would be...? Ok I'm done. 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Lot's of possibilities. To many to even try to mention, but the Dallas call makes some sense...and over the years we have worked with Dallas, so who knows??
I do agree in this, if we don't get RGIII and are sitting at #4, I'd almost bet the ranch we trade down.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I would be extremely happy with the Dallas scenario and if both where to happen I probably wouldn't be able to contain myself!
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Not so crazy.
Actually I like the trade with Dallas scenario, but not the 22nd. If we trade with Dallas we would like to get their 2nd this year.
Who do we take at #14?
I know I'll take some flak, but I like Jenkins (JJ) there or Tannehill if he is available, but there is a good chance that some team either takes him or trades up for him in the top 10.
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I wouldn't mind Jenkins.
I think I would go with Ingram,OLB, South Carolina. Provided noone unexpected fell to 14.
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At first glance, that would kinda be fun to see. except for one thing.. I don't wanna see Ytown hang himself 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Funny, I like the trading of #22 as I see no value there but hate trading back from 4 to 14...even for that nice haul...I'd go BPA at #4 and look to do that trade with #22 as I see little difference in the talent available between #22 and #37..I even think you can get as good a prospect at #68 in THIS particular draft class....most of the low 1st/early 2nd rounders are high ceiling underachievers with poor or inconsistent tape (Admas, Glenn) or 1 trick ponies (Perry, Mercilus, Branch), character concerns (Floyd, Kirkpatrick, Ja.Jenkins)...we're talking boom or bust players here..and normally those guys go in the early 2nd to 3rd round range...there's really just a lack of solid mid/late 1st round talent...a guy like Kuechly, who is a Dqwell/Laurianitis type clone (both early 2nd rounders), goes top 20...DeCastro is your typical top interior OL who normally go late 1st but he gets bumped up too....we better keep that #4 and trade away #22 or #37 for future pick(s) and/or mid rounders
#gmstrong
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What about trading one of our 2013 with the LA Chargers for their 2014 first round draft pick?
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I do find it humorous that the Browns must trade up for RG3 and if that happens the Skins will take Tannehill at 6 but if the Browns dont trade up for RG3 they should take a RB and then they follow up with man you just cant take a RB in the top10 forget about top 5. HUH!?
Right now and this could change depending upon free agency, the Browns will go Claiborne, Tannehill or trade down. I would not be shocked if a 3 way trade happens although those are mega rare. Skins go to 2, Rams go to 4 and Browns to 6.
There are a few teams that would like that #4 pick for Blackmon or Claiborne. DAllas, Phily if they trade Desean Jackson, Rams (once they trade down to 6), I could see Tampa saying how about a 3 to trade down 1 spot so they could get Claiborne.
Now at 22, I think there will be a ton of teams wanting to trade into that spot. These back end of the first teams and early 2nd teams can get real anxious for a player that is dropping.
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Funny, I like the trading of #22 as I see no value there but hate trading back from 4 to 14...even for that nice haul...I'd go BPA at #4 and look to do that trade with #22 as I see little difference in the talent available between #22 and #37..I even think you can get as good a prospect at #68 in THIS particular draft class....most of the low 1st/early 2nd rounders are high ceiling underachievers with poor or inconsistent tape (Admas, Glenn) or 1 trick ponies (Perry, Mercilus, Branch), character concerns (Floyd, Kirkpatrick, Ja.Jenkins)...we're talking boom or bust players here..and normally those guys go in the early 2nd to 3rd round range...there's really just a lack of solid mid/late 1st round talent...a guy like Kuechly, who is a Dqwell/Laurianitis type clone (both early 2nd rounders), goes top 20...DeCastro is your typical top interior OL who normally go late 1st but he gets bumped up too....we better keep that #4 and trade away #22 or #37 for future pick(s) and/or mid rounders
I want to wait and see how things shake out at the top of the draft before I can agree with the 22nd selection having equal value as the 37th, but case in point at this time, most of the prospects I would target with #37 are rated lower then that selection. Ie; #1 Curry
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Funny, I like the trading of #22 as I see no value there...
I think I understand your point if it's about "value" at a pick in the draft.
We may end up drafting a guy with similar value as our 3rd Rd pick...however...whomever we take at #22, he will likely be a starter this fall for us.
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At first glance, that would kinda be fun to see. except for one thing..
I don't wanna see Ytown hang himself
You joke, but I want desperately for this team to improve itself, and get the one piece that has been so incredibly elusive for the past 20+ years. Getting a franchise level QB is within reach, and I would just love to see a great talent at QB actually play in Cleveland, instead of damn near everywhere else in the past 20+ years.
Our best QB in the past 20 years would be Vinny.
Ugh.
Pittsburgh has had Roethlisberger, and managed to get decent production out of guys like Maddox, O'Donnell, Tomczak, and even Kordell Stweart to a degree. Compared to what we have put on the field, these guys have been All Pros ...... but Roethlisberger clearly trumps any we can claim in 20+ years.
The Ravens can claim Testaverde, McNair, and Flacco in what .... 15 years?
The Bengals? Hell, thay have blown us out of the water at QB with guys like Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, John Kitna, and the end of the Boomer Esiason era.
The Pats have had Brady and Bledsoe.
The Jets have had Favre, Testaverde, Pennington, and so on.
The Bills have had Kelly, and Bledsoe, and Flutie, and Fitzpatrick. All are heads and shoulders above anyone we've put on the field in the last 20+ years.
The Dolphins had Marino during this time frame.Outside of Pennington for a year, they've struggled at the position as well once Marino retired.
The Texans? They have Matt Schaub who is more than twice as good as anyone we've out on the field under Center in 20+ years.
The Titans saw The Moon era end, and fumbled for a couple of years before finding McNair.
The Jaguars? Brunnel, Leftwich and Garrard are far superior to anyone we've set under Cenet during this time.
The Colts had Peyton Manning. 'Nuff said.
So how do we compare to the rest of the AFC over the past 20 years as far as the talent we've had under Center? We look like crap if you ask me. Is it any wonder that we've also sucked for much of that time?
We should be looking at QBs every couple of years until we find a great one. We've spent decades playing with crap ..... it's time to do like other teams do and find a quality starter. (and maybe even a great player so we have a chance at one of those Super Bowls I hear so much about ....... on damn near a daily basis ..... from all of the Steelers fans around the area ............) 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You joke,
Yes, it was a joke, no need to go on and on and on and on and on...
You've made your point, we don't agree...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You don;t agree that we've had crap at QB over the past 20 years, while most other teams have had at least one pretty good QB during that time? I don't know how you could possibly disagree with that given the list. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You don;t agree that we've had crap at QB over the past 20 years, while most other teams have had at least one pretty good QB during that time?
I don't know how you could possibly disagree with that given the list.
You just adore putting words in peoples posts don't you..,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, the thread title is right, I would call it crazy...  Dallas trading up is unlikely here, especially for that price. There are reports that they will go after Brandon Carr in free agency, filling their CB #1 need. If they don't get him, I would expect them to go for Courtland Finnegan. Either way, I expect them to address that in FA, not #4 in the draft. At 14, they could get Decastro if he falls to them, or Mark Barron to upgrade the secondary even more. Barron + Carr would do wonders for their defense. 22 being a trade back makes more sense. Tannehill might be there, so maybe Washington, Miami or Seattle would trade up from their 2nd to get him. Not sure what they would be willing to give up for him though. It's more likely that they trade back, then pick him up.
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With the Colts getting their shiny new Qb with the #1 overall pick, Perhaps they would trade the 1st pick of round 2 to us to move up and grab Floyd. They will be losing Wayne and Garcon. I think they will want to get a top flight wr to pair with Luck.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Actually the Colts have the 2nd pick of round 2 (Rams have the 1st).
I also don't like the options at #14.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
So how do we compare to the rest of the AFC over the past 20 years as far as the talent we've had under Center?
You're not only right about that, but we have also drafted so poorly since our return, and rebuilt so many times, that we've lacked the talent all over the field to compare with the rest of the AFC.
I'm not saying or insinuating anything but that. This team has sorely lacked any kind of play makers. Something does have to change. It needs to start somewhere.
#gmstrong
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We've had a lot of average talent since we returned, but have lacked those superstar talents who can lift a team up to be better than they otherwise are. Edwards might have been the closest to that level on offense. Even though he was a whack job, opposing teams knew that they were going to have to figure out how to cover him. Same thing with Winslow, to an extent.
Look at all of the guys we've brought in who played on successful teams, but did little here. We've also had guys who "sucked" here, but who went on to play on Super Bowl teams elsewhere.
We lack those 2-4 truly special players that most teams have, players who the opposition worries about weeks in advance of playing a team.
If you're playing the Patriots, you're thinking "how do we stop Tom Brady" for weeks in advance. Same thing with the Saints and Drew Brees. Ditto for a guy like Mario Williams. We need a couple of players like that ..... players that put the fear of God into opposing coordinators.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How about if the Rams don't trade the PICK and the Commish says" With the 2nd pick in the 2012 NFL draft, the Rams select... Robert Griffin the Third " How many jaws will drop until we hear they are swapping players with another team ? Ala Rivers/Manning..
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Quote:
We lack those 2-4 truly special players that most teams have, players who the opposition worries about weeks in advance of playing a team.
I agree with your whole post. In response to the quote above I think it's because we keep rebuilding. Guys never get a chance to work together so the better players can shine. There's always a new group to work with.
Look at some of the other teams you refer to in the AFC. They've got guys who've been there years playing with the same teammates, and of course the constant upgrading of backups who sometimes become starters, and primarily playing with the same guys in the same system for years leads some to "superstar" status.
Most good teams have guys who have been drafted by the team and they've been there 6 or 7 years. Those are the ones that need game-planned for. I'd first noticed this back when Tampa Bay had that great Cover-2 defense and was playing in the super bowl. There was about 4 of them who'd been there 6 or 7 years and those were the guys who had become household names.
Since then I've hated it when we'd change regimes. Regimes never got the chance to develop anyone past the third year and then a new regime would come in and cut them because they're not "their guys".
I'm one who believes any NFL coach can become successful, even Mangini, if he's given enough time to develop his program and his players. Plug 'em in, let 'em work it out until it works out.
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Quote:
How about if the Rams don't trade the PICK and the Commish says" With the 2nd pick in the 2012 NFL draft, the Rams select... Robert Griffin the Third " How many jaws will drop until we hear they are swapping players with another team ? Ala Rivers/Manning..
LOL, I thought of that too.
It is a possibility if Washington loses out on a FA QB.
One thing I've learned about the Draft is ... Always expect the unexpected. 
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I hope RG3 pulls a reverse MJD and drops the III from his name...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I hope RG3 pulls a reverse MJD and drops the III from his name...
I say ... What ever makes him happy.
I'll simply call him Griffen, because as far as I know he is the first.
In my family we past on our middle (baptized) name to our first born sons.
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I get confused every time I play with Detroit on Madden and Johnson Jr. lines up out wide...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope RG3 pulls a reverse MJD and drops the III from his name...
I say ... What ever makes him happy.
I'll simply call him Griffen, because as far as I know he is the first.
In my family we past on our middle (baptized) name to our first born sons.
starting RG for Baylor also went by that name though:
http://www.baylorbears.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/griffin_robertt00.html
#gmstrong
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Yeah, they started RG at RG and RGIII at QB. Wonder if he ever referred to the lineman as "Gramps."
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Quote:
How about if the Rams don't trade the PICK and the Commish says" With the 2nd pick in the 2012 NFL draft, the Rams select... Robert Griffin the Third " How many jaws will drop until we hear they are swapping players with another team ? Ala Rivers/Manning..
Honestly, I wouldn't blame the Rams if they took RG3 for themselves. Sam Bradford is nothing special, they might be able to trade him for some 2nds. Sure, they need a lot of help around the team, but I just don't see franchise QB in Bradford. Maybe the new regime will turn him around, but I haven't seen anything to make me think he has a high ceiling.
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It's been said before, but based on Bradfords contract, Stl literally CAN'T trade him...
Drafting RG3 themselves would only work if they already had a trade worked out, because once they take him, the other team then knows they HAVE to trade him... Dropping the price (not by much, but it does drop it...)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Jeff Fisher had his choice between the Rams and the Dolphins.
The Dolphins have a much better defense than the Rams, especially rush defense. The only reason for him to take the Rams job was to coach Bradford.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If Fisher had picked Miami that would of sealed the Manning is a Dolphin deal...IMO
Manning has talked alot about how he respects Fisher, and I think Jeff coaching the Defense and basically letting Manning run the offense, bring in Wayne or Garcon across from Marshall...
Nice...
(BTW, I wonder how Garcon and Wayne feel about all this talk of them basically following Manning wherever he goes like a lost puppy...)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Yeah, they started RG at RG and RGIII at QB. Wonder if he ever referred to the lineman as "Gramps."
I would love it if the Redskins trade up in front of us and select at #2:
Robert Griffin, Baylor
Then, Heckert runs up at #4 and puts on his card:
Robert Griffin III, Baylor
That would be a fun discussion with Roger Goodell 
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LOL, that would be nuts. I think they have to put position on the card as well. Its a fun idea though
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Not sure where to put this but it seems to lean toward the prospect of trading down given Heckert's comments. Browns say they’re not interested in Peyton Manning Posted by Michael David Smith on March 8, 2012, 10:57 AM EST Cleveland Browns v Pittsburgh Steelers Getty Images Cross Cleveland off the list of places that could attract Peyton Manning. (If it was ever on the list.) Browns General Manager Tom Heckert said today that the Browns won’t pursue Manning, calling it, “probably not a direction we’re going to go. . . . We will not go crazy in free agency,” per Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. That could mean the Browns are confident in Colt McCoy going forward. Or it could mean they’re confident they can draft their quarterback of the future. Or it could mean they think they’re a long way away from being contenders and that adding Manning is a short-term fix for a contender, not a long-term solution for a rebuilding team. If the Browns want to go the draft route, Heckert’s comments today seemed to hint that trading up to No. 2 and drafting Robert Griffin III isn’t in the cards. Heckert said the Browns like four quarterbacks in this year’s draft: Griffin and Andrew Luck, of course, but also Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill and Oklahoma State’s Brandon Weeden. They could be thinking about Tannehill at No. 4, or Weeden at No. 22, where the Browns have the Falcons’ first-round pick. Heckert also said there’s a chance the Browns will trade down from No. 4 to get extra picks, just as they did in trading with the Falcons last year. Ultimately, Heckert’s job is to put together the kind of team that doesn’t always have a high pick to trade down from. A big part of that will be ensuring the Browns have their franchise quarterback in place. We don’t know who that quarterback will be, but it appears safe to say it will not be Manning. No Manning
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I'm glad he put out that Manning fire. I think Manning is one of the best QBs ever to play the game, but I don't think we have the team right now that could accommodate him.
Now, as to the draft, it's still the Silly Season, so I don't put too much credence into Heckert saying they won't trade up, or they will trade down, etc.
I thought it was interesting him talking about Weeden. Having watched a couple of Okla. St. games, he certainly has a lot of the QB tools. The big question mark, of course, is his age.
If he's sitting there at 37, do you consider taking him?
Last edited by brownsfansince79; 03/08/12 12:08 PM.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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He fits the M.O. as much as any QB for a Holmgren type - invest a lower round pick and try to develop the QB to the system.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't know a lot about him, but he certainly didn't seem to lack arm strength or size. Now, decision making and the ability to make NFL throws? That I don't know.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I think you have to consider taking him ... but the question is of short term value versus long term.
We need to address the offense and add talent that will help us now. Can Weeden come in on day one and honestly beat out McCoy who will have a real offseason to get this playbook? I dont know. My guess is that Colt will have an advantage (even if slight).
So why spend a pick on a QB who probably won't touch the field for another season or two, and might never touch it for us ... when we could use that pick to draft a RB or a RT (or even a solid WR who slips) that could be essentially an opening day starter?
It would be a high reward for average risk ... but if we are willing to burn a high pick on a QB then I would think it makes more sense to package that 2nd rounder with another pick or two and just go after Griffin / Luck. It would be different if he slipped into the 3rd or 4th like Mallet did ... but at 37 ... we will have some players who are legit first round talent and we will be passing on them for a guy who is essentially a roll of the dice.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I'm zero percent worried about Weeden's age. My main concern is that he was basically a JUGGS machine. He'd take the snap in shotgun and fire to a receiver without even moving, let alone coming out from under center. Like the guy was throwing batting practice.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Crazy Trade Back Scenario's (That
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