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does anybody have any video of Ryan Tannehill looking like a 1st round QB that they can post so i can stop having nightmares please?




Go on youtube and watch some of his games. Have you seen any. Not the highlights, the actual games where you see every throw he makes.

I kind of like him, he's got a solid arm, and he's pretty accurate. Things I'd like to see him improve is his decision making. But he's only been playing QB for a little while. 6'4, athletic, strong arm, good character.

Just needs more experience




Yes, I did.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post905926

These two games, he did not look like a 1st round pick. The comments we've been bombarded with about his offense being so much like ours doesn't show through in these games. He completed 5 passes TOTAL from under center and two were dropped in these two games.

I'm hoping I somehow got two of his worst games and someone has better videos they can provide to help justify in my mind the possibility that he might be taken #4 overall... or even anywhere in the first.

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not to mention that youtube conviently doesn't have his worst games he played last year (against the decent pass defenses).

I saw the Texas and OU games. Saw most of the OkieState game. He was not good in those games.


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Math can be fun...here's how I see it.

Over the next three drafts - 2012-2014 - and barring any trades...the Rams will pick (3) players and the Skins will pick (1)...so...

The Skins think RG3 is worth (3) 1st Rd picks...the one they use on him and the two they gave up. (Not to mention the 2nd Rdr.)

I'm sorry...but...that's just stupid. I would not have given up that much to draft Luck.






None the less, the irrefutable fact is the Skins are minus two first round picks.


They have one this year.




So, if the Skins instead just gave up their first picks in '13 and '14 how many picks would they have given up? Less than 2? Now, account for this year's pick.


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I don't take him at #4, and trading back is an option. I'd call Tampa and ask them how much they like Claiborne, then when we are on the clock at #5 I'd call StL and ask them how much they like Blackmon and then draft Tannehill at #6.




So you want Claiborne and Blackmon more than Tannehill? Because that's what you'd have to make those teams believe.

And remember that you're assuming they don't make a trade with us and then trade down to another team who gets Tannehill right from under our noses


Both of these schemes seem kind of ridiculous, but yeah. I just don't see that happening. We either trade down, hope Tannehill is there or go for someone else that's high on our list (Cordy Glenn, Melvin Ingram, Malcom Floyd, Trent Richardson?)

Or...... we just select Tannehill at 4. From my viewpoint, sure, I'd rather have had RG3 at number 4 than Tannehill, but would I rather have RG3 at 4, 22, and next year's 1st (plus may be some other picks) or would I rather have Tannehill at 4 and keep those other picks.


I had him written off, and then I actually started watching him on youtube (the actual game film), and he is better than I had thought. Mourgym might be on to something. He's got a good arm, not a noodle arm like Charlie Frye's and better than Colt's too


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does anybody have any video of Ryan Tannehill looking like a 1st round QB that they can post so i can stop having nightmares please?




I just watched as much footage on him as you can. There are a couple of games on youtube, him vs LSU, Northwestern, and Arkansas.

My impressions of him:

His arm is average to below average in strength. His ball can tend to flutter on him a bit and his long ball is almost always a heave and pray, it seems. For short routes, it is adequate but it is definitely not going to make anyone forget about Marino.

His accuracy is good at 5-15 yards, beyond that it's Frye/McCoy like. He can nail WR'ers on slants and crosses, even hit the occasional 10 yard out or 15 yard crossing route, but when you are talking about challenging a defense 30-40 yards down field, it's not very good. He is not putting the ball on the money. He can be very good at driving a team down field and can make NFL accurate throws from 15 yards or so in.

I should also mention that his windup is very slow. It's not Tebow or Leftwich like, but it's pretty slow. He definitely needs to tighten his release up because it takes quite a while for him to go from recognition to the ball coming out of his hands.

His decision making is very poor. He forces passes that he cannot make and that comes back to bite him. I understand trying to fit balls into tight windows, but he really likes to try and fit a ball in double or triple coverage way too much. He made quite a few mistakes where he thought a WR would go one way and the WR went the other. Is that coaching or on the QB? Who knows.

He is a big and athletic guy. He's strong and can move for as big as he is. He can break tackles and move very well, could be a dual threat type player if he wanted to. Reminds me of a Jake Plummer in that sense.

Overall, I am not very impressed. Certainly is not a Top 5 pick in this or any draft. I'm not sure why he is even being touted as a top 15 pick. I'd take him somewhere in the 30's if he was there, but I definitely would not reach on him. He reminds me, hype wise, of Blaine Gabbert, going up draft boards because of need rather than talent. I definitely do not see what others on here are seeing as far as legitimate potential, as I see a game manager at best, not a franchise QB.


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So you want Claiborne and Blackmon more than Tannehill?




Yes. In Terms of BPA, with out a doubt.

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And remember that you're assuming they don't make a trade with us and then trade down to another team who gets Tannehill right from under our noses




And then we still get either Blackmon or Claiborne who are better prospects and we still got extra picks.


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j/c

From Monday Morning Quarterback:

It's hard, obviously, to project where the Washington first-round picks will be in the 2013 and 2014 drafts. But because we don't know, let's project them to be in the middle of the round, at 16, each year. (That is actually how the Rams calculated it, by the way, with each of the two mystery picks in the middle of the first rounds of 2013 and 2014.) And let's compare this trade to two other very big ones of recent years: the Saints' trade of eight draft choices to Washington so they could draft Ricky Williams in 1999, and the Giants' move with San Diego to pick Eli Manning in the 2004 draft. I'll also tell you how much each trade returned in value, according to the well-worn draft-trade value chart -- even though that chart has to change now because very high picks are paid much less since the approval of the 2011 CBA, including a rookie wage scale.

The reason I think this Washington deal is better than either of the others is it gives the Rams one top-10 pick and, overall, four picks in the top 40. Each of the other trades gave the trading team the lower pick two picks in the top 40.

Amazing thing about this deal is rookie GM Les Snead, according to one Rams operative, "never looked at the trade value chart. As Les said, 'There is no value for a franchise quarterback.' '' Look at Eli Manning. When the Giants made the trade with San Diego in 2004, the common wisdom was GM Ernie Accorsi overpaid. Now, with Eli Manning having won two Super Bowls and played such clutch football in both championship game victories, it's apparent that the Giants, if anything, underpaid for him.

As for how it all happened, Rams COO Kevin Demoff said two weeks ago the deal could be made in any of three windows -- now, or around the time of Griffin's March 21 Pro Day workout, or right before the draft. It happened now because Washington was moving aggressively, knowing that Peyton Manning would not come and play in his brother's division and knowing what a jewel Griffin was, and because there was clear competition for the pick.

Snead was honest with the two teams most involved, Washington and Cleveland, and the third (Miami) on the periphery. He told them they were going to make a deal by the close of business Thursday, and they needed to make their best offer. According to one of the teams involved, Washington made an offer beyond what St. Louis ever thought it'd get -- three first-round picks and a second-rounder. Cleveland offered something less, thought to be three ones. (It's unknown what Miami's best offer was, though the Dolphins wanted Manning, and so never got to the level of the Redskins.)

The Rams might have gotten more by telling the Browns what Washington's offer was, but Snead had promised each side he wouldn't play one bid against another but rather simply ask for each team's best offer. Once Washington's offer was better than Cleveland's, the deal was done.

"What happened,'' said one team executive involved in the talks, "was everyone wanted to get the deal done before free agency, to make sure they filled a chair with a quarterback they really wanted during musical chairs. That really helped the Rams.''

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Money quote:

Quote:

The Rams might have gotten more by telling the Browns what Washington's offer was, but Snead had promised each side he wouldn't play one bid against another but rather simply ask for each team's best offer. Once Washington's offer was better than Cleveland's, the deal was done.




So we offered what we did and didn't have a chance to match Washington's offer. Now it makes sense as to why we didn't get the deal done.

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While it's admirable for the Rams to not play the two teams against each other, gotta wonder if it was the right "business" move?


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For a rookie GM who is going to have to deal with these guys for the duration of his job, absolutely. You don't go out of your way to try and screw over teams and playing games. That is how you get teams to shut you out of trade talks and offers.


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I am thinking the same thing. Yes, they did what they said they were going to do. But it seems like they could have gotten a better deal.

We essentially lost a silent auction.

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For a rookie GM who is going to have to deal with these guys for the duration of his job, absolutely. You don't go out of your way to try and screw over teams and playing games. That is how you get teams to shut you out of trade talks and offers.




That is a 100% valid point of view. And I'm not saying I disagree.

I guess I'm just kind of thinking of car shopping. When I go car shopping, I expect that I'm going to have to negotiate with the guy. Yeah, it's nice if I don't have to, but I've never had that happen. The first time I go to a dealer who says "we'll make one offer each, and that's it", I wouldn't believe it. Now, after they do that, I'd believe it from then on.

When I'm a GM of an NFL team, I'd approach trade talks with the mindset that I'm going to be playing against another team and the team I'm trading with will want to get maximum value. So, I might come in "low", even if he tells me "nope, I'm taking each of your first offer and no more." So, I'd be entirely surprised when he sticks to his word, not because I expect him to be a liar, but because I expect him to get max value.

JMHO


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I think they try to be somewhat fair and honest because they are going to have to deal with each other again (possibly). The other guy might be in the power position next time, and you want him to remember that you gave him the truth.

just my opinion of course

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Yeah I think it was a savvy business move.

What happened was what I suspected happened. The Rams were surprised by Washingons offer. Washington obviously went into it with the mindset they were going to make sure they were not outbid.

It looks like we gave an honest effort.

I want to see that same honest effort in FA.

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To all those pointlessly arguing over the value of the compensation the Redskins gave the Rams for the number two pick:

Quote:

I think there's been some confusion on the compensation the Redskins paid the Rams for the second pick in the draft, at least according to the Twitter world. Dozens of you, and some emailers too, have said, Wait a minute. The Redskins didn't trade three first-round picks and a two for Robert Griffin III. They traded two firsts, then swapped positions with this year's first-rounders with the Rams. In a way, it's all semantics. But it's much more accurate, and truthful, to say Washington traded four picks for one pick. If we described it as three picks for Griffin and a swap of ones this year, that diminishes the importance of this little swap of picks this year.
In the NFL today, trading up from six to two in the first round cannot be dismissed as simply "swapping spots" as though it's a minor part of the deal. On the draft trade value chart, which all teams use (though its importance has been lessened because the cost of high picks is so much more affordable now with the new rookie wage scale), the difference between the sixth and second overall picks is 1,000 points, the equivalent of the 16th overall pick in the draft.




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Quote:


On the draft trade value chart, which all teams use




Link





Quote:


Amazing thing about this deal is rookie GM Les Snead, according to one Rams operative, "never looked at the trade value chart.
link



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I think on the Rams/Redskins deal the draft value chart was not used.

But Peter King is trying to explain that the second pick and sixth pick were not just "swapped" as the difference between those picks is the equivalent of the sixteenth pick in the draft.

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so your saying it wasnt used, but then use it to prove a point?

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It wasn't used not because it isn't valuable but because the value of the picks traded was unprecedented.

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When dealing with a guy that overpays for everything the last thing you want to do is ask for the going rate lol. When it comes to the Raiders and Redskins, you take them for whatever you can and have them thank you for it afterwards.

We may have offered a 2 and 4, no one knows and I doubt we will ever know.

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I understand, but you cant say "we arent gonna use the chart here, then use the chart to say it isnt a swap."

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I am thinking the same thing. Yes, they did what they said they were going to do. But it seems like they could have gotten a better deal.

We essentially lost a silent auction.




economic game theory. it's the reason some places prefer silent auction. sometimes the "threat" of being outbid can cause higher bids than having actual bids to play against.

and, if they said they were going to do a silent auction and then "poisoned the well" by taking offers after it, they would have hurt themselves doing business with teams in the future. and not just the one team that "lost" this bidding.


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So we offered what we did and didn't have a chance to match Washington's offer. Now it makes sense as to why we didn't get the deal done.




Exactly. Those that want to say the Browns screwed up are likely not correct. We may never know the total truth of what the Browns offered, but it doesn't look like they bungled anything.


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I agree 100%. If they said they weren't going to play the teams against each other, then they were right to stick to that.

I just question the wisdom of saying that to begin with. If you want to maximize value, you pit the two teams against each other. You can still be honest and say "you're bidding against the Redskins" or "The 'Skins offered us x, y and z..."


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Quote:

While it's admirable for the Rams to not play the two teams against each other, gotta wonder if it was the right "business" move?




I think it might be, and I wouldn't be surprised if this type of thing gains momentum with other teams. It might cause teams to bid high just to make sure they're in the running. On the other hand, it might turn teams off who want to make an offer and then have the right to match/exceed it.


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the Rams may have been worried that Heckert would have balked after the initial Redskins offer. then, they get less.

it's a gamble either way. it's possible to get more in a live auction if 2 extremely desperate parties are in play (or more). but, it's also possible to get more in a silent auction if you have at least 1 desperate party that is paranoid about losing on it's bid.


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Tannehill has a unique perspective as a QB, being a very good WR for his team before returning to the QB position. That experience might lead to his quality of getting the ball out quickly once he sees his target..quick release.



I think this is one of the most overused, abused, speculative, imaginative, fraudulent, and flat-out wrong ways of trying to pump up the perceived value of Tannehill.

His time as a WR doesn't mean j'it in terms of his ability to become a good QB. Not one, single, iota. There isn't anything he has learned as a WR which is going to be "secret inside knowledge" that any other half-way decent QB doesn't already know or will be taught by coaches.

That premise is so ridiculous it's hardly worth beating down.

Mac, I'd like you and others who believe in that fallacy to explain in detail why that will give Tannehill an edge. Tell me what it exactly is that he's going to understand that the other 31 starting QB's in the NFL won't.

I think your answer is going to be an effort in spin. Hell, your very quote above is nothing more than a bit of double-talk already...

Oh, and Hel, there's no conceivable way we're going to take Tannehill at 4. I'll fly you down and get you on at Colonial with the two hotest strippers in Dallas to round out our foursome if we do (and I cannot wait to see how many people take THAT quote the wrong way )


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Quote:

Money quote:

Quote:

The Rams might have gotten more by telling the Browns what Washington's offer was, but Snead had promised each side he wouldn't play one bid against another but rather simply ask for each team's best offer. Once Washington's offer was better than Cleveland's, the deal was done.




So we offered what we did and didn't have a chance to match Washington's offer. Now it makes sense as to why we didn't get the deal done.


In my best Damanshot voice... Maybe we did, and maybe we didn't, but that's a report made based on an anonymous source so it cannot be proven.


Sooner or later we're gonna have to accept we made a big push for Griffin. At least now we know why we didn't get a chance to offer the farm PLUS our first-born child for him...


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I have to agree with a lot of what you've said.

He looks decent on the short stuff, and he actually can hit a receiver in stride, so that's an improvement over McCoy right now, but get beyond 10-15 yards and his accuracy drops off like a rock. Also, his game has a tendency to go to hell when pressured. He would see nothing but blitzes, because he can be pressured into mistakes.

He's got some inherent physical ability ...... but he basically needs built as an NFL QB. I don't see as we have time to wait a year or 2 to find out if he can be a good QB. This regime won't be around if we're still wondering what we have at QB in another couple of years.

Also, I read something on this thread about Weeden possibly going back to baseball as a reason we shouldn't take him. Really? How far does someone have to stretch to get an idea like that?

We'll see how Tannehill does, wherever he goes. I just don't see him as a special guy. I do think that someone will overdraft him out of desperation. I hope that's not us.

The draft forum will continue on with all of these posts preserved for posterity. It will be interesting to see who tries to change their opinions down the road if he booms/busts.


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"In my best Damanshot voice..."

Now for the full effect,
Raise both heads above your head,extend both fore and middle fingers to form a V.Add sweat on the forehead and shifty,beady eyes.Begin each sentence with "My fellow Americans"
Be sure to flip,flop,twist,and turn everything you say,or that is said to you.


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Raise both heads above your head




haha I lol'd a lot!

Im so immature

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Exactly. Those that want to say the Browns screwed up are likely not correct. We may never know the total truth of what the Browns offered, but it doesn't look like they bungled anything.



It also says that the Rams got far more than they were even hoping for... could be that the Browns made a very reasonable offer right in line with what the Rams were expecting and just got outbid... and I'm glad we did because if we would have given them MORE than the Redskins did.. I would have been upset.


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I think this is one of the most overused, abused, speculative, imaginative, fraudulent, and flat-out wrong ways of trying to pump up the perceived value of Tannehill.

His time as a WR doesn't mean j'it in terms of his ability to become a good QB. Not one, single, iota. There isn't anything he has learned as a WR which is going to be "secret inside knowledge" that any other half-way decent QB doesn't already know or will be taught by coaches.

That premise is so ridiculous it's hardly worth beating down.





This I agree with. The only thing him play WR shows is that he's a pretty good athlete (but I doubt the athlete required to be an NFL WR) and that he's competitive.

I don't think playing the WR position will especially give him a new perspective on QB. Not at the NFL level at least.


I do agree with posters on here that it's too bad that so many of his passes are short passes on film. I didn't notice the shotgun vs center. But I do think he has a pretty good arm. I don't see the very slow release/wind up, although he doesn't throw really fast like Peyton Manning does (never seen Marino, so Manning is the best I can come up with).

But I do think he has a stronger arm that some people on here gave him credit for. He puts pepper on his out routes, much better than McCoy can. His accuracy on deeper throws is decent, and I think it will get better as he plays the position more.

He is after all, a college QB.

I just see A LOT of potential. Is he RG3? No. Is he Andrew Luck? No. But I do think he'll be better than what we got, and probably pretty quickly.

I dunno about trading down, I don't want to trade up to get him though. If he's there at the 22 I'd definitely like him. And if Heckert really likes him, I see no issue with spending the 4 on him.

Nobody at 4 really excites me anyway. Trent Richardson is easily the best player, but the RB position makes me wishy washy. I guess a lot of that has to do with Peyton Hillis.

No FA QB excites me, not Flynn at least. I'd almost prefer Kevin Kolb over Flynn. But I dunno if either is a much better option than Colt, all depends on Kolb's arm verses Colt's. That's something Heckert would know

Weeden being 28 is disappointing. I guess he can improve as he plays better competition, but I'd prefer a younger guy (who will be at a higher level when he's 28)

So in the end, I like Tannehill. And if Heckert loves him, i'm good with 4, if not, hope he's there at 22


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Quote:

Quote:

I do like Wes Bunting. He puts out good, well thought out pieces. Stuff gleamed from watching tape, not gauged on what other GMs/Scouts are offering.

Slight digression....most of the ESPN people know very little and rely on their connections for their opinions. Once you peel back the onion on these guys, their backgrounds and their jobs now....

I can't think of one that was a legit scout who loved watching football.

Most of these guys like Mort, Shefter, Glazer and Clayton are wannabe gumshoes...guys who came up through journalism, got in with a team, then parlayed that into sources and brokers of inside information.

These aren't guys like Wes Bunting who want to spend time watching football! ugh, blech! football!

These are reporters. That's it. Finito.




There's 1 problem with Bunting...there are tape watchers with a backbone and there are Bunting's

I have follwed his rankings since the 1st day he released them and he has dropped (or upped) some prospects by as much as 1+ point without changing the text...how come? Me thinks he "heard" stuff and changed his rankings accordingly...without explaining any of them...he wants to be a "tape guy" but he's a weather vane as most of the others 1st and foremost

Right or wrong, THIS is a tape guy with a backbone:

http://footballdiner.com/ncaa2012underclassmen2.html




Are you really quoting this guy? LOL http://paul-emery.suite101.com/


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does anybody have any video of Ryan Tannehill looking like a 1st round QB that they can post so i can stop having nightmares please?




Check out youtube there are a few highlight videos and also a few package games where you can see every throw (which I really thought was cool)

I'm not blown away by Tannehill at all. I don't care about the position change, because he played in HS but just took a year or two off from QB (totally not the same as Weeden going baseball)

but the thing I do like about him, as it's been mentioned a million times, he runs the WCO under coach Sherman, and you can tell. You watch him play, and you can see some of the same stuff we're trying to do. He does it well. How it would fare in our offense, with our players, against NFL defenses? I don't know. I'm with most that I think 4 is too high, 22 he may not be there, and a trade down might be ideal if we can fall back into the right place.

He has a bit bigger size, he seems very durable, and has a stronger arm than Colt. He also throws very well on the run.

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j/c

Just throwing this out there since I somewhat like historical lists....
obviously no prior pick influences this pick, but just for history....

Here is the list of QBs taken with the 2nd pick of the NFL draft SINCE 1965. I would have thought there would be more.

1999 Donovan McNabb (1st pick: QB Tim Couch)
1998 Ryan Leaf (1st pick: QB Peyton Manning)
1993 Rick Mirer (1st pick: QB Bledsoe)
1973 Bert Jones (1st pick: DE John Matuszak)
1971 Archie Manning (1st pick: QB Jim Plunkett)
1966 Rick Norton (1st pick: LB Tommy Nobis)
1965 Joe Namath (1st pick: WR Lawrence Elkins)

Only Joe Namath won championships (2) as a #2 pick. There were a couple of good QBs, but they proved that it takes more than a QB. Archie Manning is the poster child for good QB that couldn't win because of the crap around him.


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Quote:

j/c

Just throwing this out there since I somewhat like historical lists....
obviously no prior pick influences this pick, but just for history....

Here is the list of QBs taken with the 2nd pick of the NFL draft SINCE 1965. I would have thought there would be more.

1999 Donovan McNabb (1st pick: QB Tim Couch)
1998 Ryan Leaf (1st pick: QB Peyton Manning)
1993 Rick Mirer (1st pick: QB Bledsoe)
1973 Bert Jones (1st pick: DE John Matuszak)
1971 Archie Manning (1st pick: QB Jim Plunkett)
1966 Rick Norton (1st pick: LB Tommy Nobis)
1965 Joe Namath (1st pick: WR Lawrence Elkins)

Only Joe Namath won championships (2) as a #2 pick. There were a couple of good QBs, but they proved that it takes more than a QB. Archie Manning is the poster child for good QB that couldn't win because of the crap around him.




Dunno for sure, but how many of those guys were picked out of settling? Like in San Diego's case. They hoped for Manning, didn't get him, and instead said they will just take the next best QB instead of taking the best player available.

Yikes.

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Quote:

Quote:

j/c

Just throwing this out there since I somewhat like historical lists....
obviously no prior pick influences this pick, but just for history....

Here is the list of QBs taken with the 2nd pick of the NFL draft SINCE 1965. I would have thought there would be more.

1999 Donovan McNabb (1st pick: QB Tim Couch)
1998 Ryan Leaf (1st pick: QB Peyton Manning)
1993 Rick Mirer (1st pick: QB Bledsoe)
1973 Bert Jones (1st pick: DE John Matuszak)
1971 Archie Manning (1st pick: QB Jim Plunkett)
1966 Rick Norton (1st pick: LB Tommy Nobis)
1965 Joe Namath (1st pick: WR Lawrence Elkins)

Only Joe Namath won championships (2) as a #2 pick. There were a couple of good QBs, but they proved that it takes more than a QB. Archie Manning is the poster child for good QB that couldn't win because of the crap around him.




Dunno for sure, but how many of those guys were picked out of settling? Like in San Diego's case. They hoped for Manning, didn't get him, and instead said they will just take the next best QB instead of taking the best player available.

Yikes.




you can't consider SD "settling" for Leaf. they traded up and gave away a boatload of picks to draft the him.


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That's true. Maybe not in SD's case, but I honestly think what we all saw in the draft last year when all those quarterbacks went higher thant hey should have was exactly what I am talking about. Taking a QB to get a QB.

I feel very safe in saying that our guys aren't those types. I don't think Heckert and Homgren (for example) take Tannehill at 4, unless he was rated that high even before the RG3/Washington thing. They're just not going to do it.

It sucks for us fans, but we're not cutting corners, and I'm really glad.

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you can't consider SD "settling" for Leaf. they traded up and gave away a boatload of picks to draft the him.




I think they did somewhat settle in a sense like the Redskins essentially will. They took whatever Indy left them:

From Wikipedia:

"The San Diego Chargers had the third pick of the draft, but traded two first round picks, a second round pick, and three time Pro Bowler Eric Metcalf to the Arizona Cardinals to move up one spot and guarantee that the team would get one of the two quarterbacks."

Last edited by I_Rogue; 03/12/12 03:55 PM.

“Unemployment is low because everyone has two jobs. Unemployment is low because people are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and can barely feed their family.” -AOC
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