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refs - maybe this could go into any number of the QB threads (I think there is one in tailgate about 'pottery of the ancient world' that turned into a QB thread somehow, but since we had a separate Flynn one before I would start a new one. 
This from the Miami Hearld, mostly its about them getting Manning, but the end mentions a 'potential' bidding war for Flynn between Miami, Seattle, and Cleveland.
Another option
If the Dolphins don’t get Manning, they are expected to pursue Green Bay backup Matt Flynn, who will become a free agent at 4 p.m. Tuesday.
Dolphins coach Joe Philbin, Flynn’s former offensive coordinator, likes Flynn, but some in the Dolphins organization have questions about whether Flynn can be the elite quarterback this franchise desperately wants.
Cleveland and possibly Seattle are also expected to pursue Flynn, and the bidding could get awfully high for a player with two career starts. General manager Jeff Ireland has a philosophy of not paying a player any more than he thinks his value is. But the Dolphins might need to overpay if they cannot land Manning and feel desperate to add Flynn.
• The NFL on Sunday set the salary cap at $120.6 million, leaving the Dolphins with about $15 million in space. The Broncos have close to $50 million. The Cardinals are $13 million over the cap but can create space by making several roster moves.
FWIW, not a fan of signing Flynn, unless its a very very friendly contract. I would however support him immensely if H&H did sign him.
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Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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The Flynn/Kolb(if he's released) idea seems like a lateral move as it relates to replacing McCoy..
Obviously they both have more experience in the WCO, which as they say is half the battle...
I just don't know that either of them, talent wise, is that far ahead of McCoy.
I'd rather just wait it out with Colt this year, see what happens, and go from there...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I do not see us signing Flynn. Heckert was about as "Bleh" as could be when asked about him, and he's usually somewhat honest in his pressers when asked a direct question.
I think that we'll draft Weeden, and go with Colt and Weeden this year, probably with Wallace as backup for now.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The only thing that worries me, is that if Manning goes to Arizona, and they cut Kolb... That the guy the originally drafted him may want him back...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Why settle for Weeden? OK, but long-term solution? 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Heckert said something like "He should have 6 or 7 good years, and I (Heckert) might not even be here by then."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C
The interesting thing will be if Manning hasn't made a decision by Tuesday afternoon. If he at least takes a visit to Miami - which is 50/50 right now, then they have to proceed cautiously with Flynn. That could initially leave Cleveland and Seattle as the 2 bidding for Flynn, thereby dropping the price. Then again, Flynn and his people can afford to wait to see if Miami is in or not, as well.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I don't think we go Weeden due to age. I think if we take a later QB to groom. it could be Brock Osweiler (sp?) with one of our 4ths. though he may be gone before that. At the very least he bumps Thaddeus off or replaces the timebomb Seneca seems to be turning into.
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Quote:
Heckert said something like "He should have 6 or 7 good years, and I (Heckert) might not even be here by then."
Just clicking but did anyone else get a uncomforable feeling when you read that Heckert said he might not even be here by then so who cares? I sure hope he isnt just going to blow picks because he doesnt care!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
The only thing that worries me, is that if Manning goes to Arizona, and they cut Kolb... That the guy the originally drafted him may want him back...
As I mentioned in that thread in the K-9, Kolb may not be the next great franchise QB.....but he's better than McCoy and more familiar with the WCO. If we hit on a good percentage of our picks this year, he may be enough to challenge for the division.
I'd be happier.
Flynn, I have NO idea what he is. Great, good, bad, awful....who knows.
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Quote:
The only thing that worries me, is that if Manning goes to Arizona, and they cut Kolb... That the guy the originally drafted him may want him back...
i don't think that should worry you unless you are a huge Tannehill fan. if we convinced him to sign, it would be for a marginal contract (~$5mil? on a 1yr show-me contract) and it would be to compete with Colt to start.
it wouldn't be the best situation in the world (obviously), but he'd be the best veteran QB to come in and compete with Colt for the starting spot on the market. and, we could still even draft a QB in the mid-rounds and hope he develops if that is what Holmgren really wants to do.
we missed out on Luck, RGIII and if we miss out on Flynn, then the options are pretty bleak anyway.
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Quote:
Quote:
Heckert said something like "He should have 6 or 7 good years, and I (Heckert) might not even be here by then."
Just clicking but did anyone else get a uncomforable feeling when you read that Heckert said he might not even be here by then so who cares? I sure hope he isnt just going to blow picks because he doesnt care!
No. He was clearly saying I might not be here in 6 years, so Weeden's age *who he was talking about* doesn't matter to him.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
Just clicking but did anyone else get a uncomforable feeling when you read that Heckert said he might not even be here by then so who cares? I sure hope he isnt just going to blow picks because he doesnt care!
That's not what he said. Kiley and Booms took the comment out of context and ran with it on 92.3 and it blew up.
In the Media interview they were talking about Weeden, Someone asked Heckert about his age and to which Heckert replied "That's the million dollar question but if he can play for six years, heck I might not be here in six years so who cares."
The Who Cares was in reference to Weeden's age, not that if he is a bust Heckert won't be here. And the not being here could have been in reference to his recent health problems.
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With Options 1 and 2 now gone, here's my remaining order of preference for acquiring QBs:
3. Acquire none, start McCoy
4. Take a late-round flyer if there's someone you think you can develop. (Wilson, Coleman, Davis)
5. Sign Flynn
6. Draft Osweiler in the third or fourth
7. Draft Weeden in the second or third
8. Draft Tannehill in the first
I want us to make a significant upgrade in talent at QB. The only two long-term options for that this year IMO are gone. If we draft a QB high or sign Flynn, they're going to at least get this year and next year. Even Jacksonville hasn't made significant overtures towards a QB, and they had one of the worst rookie 1st round QBs in recent memory. At least if we sign Flynn we aren't also burning draft assets on him.
With options 3 and 4, if McCoy stinks again, we can try to get a talented QB in next year's draft. I'll be keeping my eye on Matt Barkley, Keith Price, Bryn Renner, Casey Pachall, Tyler Wilson, Connor Shaw, Aaron Murray, and Tyler Bray this year.
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Yeah, I took it as a "nothing is guaranteed in this league" standpoint. Heckert was saying that he doesn't know how things will turn out for him. None of us can say what we'll be doing in 6 or 7 years.
At no time did I think that Heckert didn't care about the job. For God's sake, the guy just had bypass surgery and he's already back at work???
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Exactly, If we draft Weeden and for the next six years he is a stud and we win a Superbowl with him will anyone in the city care that he was drafted at age 28 instead of 21-22?
Who cares if he is 28 if he can play? That is the way I took the comment.
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Quote:
The only thing that worries me, is that if Manning goes to Arizona, and they cut Kolb... That the guy the originally drafted him may want him back...
Per Rotoworld, the Cards are 16.4M over the cap and need to get down below that by tomorrow. Then they need to reduce salaries by whatever they sign Manning for - at least his year 1 cap number which I'd expect to be in the 10m range. Then they need to clear up cap space to be able to sign any free agents and their draft class. If I'm Peyton Manning, knowing they need to cut 30m+ in space, that'd worry me.
Kolb's cap number is 10.5m if he is on the roster on 3/17 and 2m if he is cut. With the news that Manning might not choose this week, the Cards might have a very hard decision to make this Friday...
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Like I said in another thread. The Cardinals can cut Levi Brown and save about $14.5 million.( LINK) While they can easily get under by cutting Brown, it would also mean they are cutting their starting left tackle.
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doh'
Last edited by Arps; 03/12/12 12:30 PM.
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exactly...
They cut 1/2 of what they need to with one guy, and that one guy just happens to be the most important (arguably) guy for a right handed qb coming off 4 surgeries...
And they have a poor OL anyway. Wouldn't make me feel comfortable if I were Manning.
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I really dont see how anyone can say that Colt is not as good as Flynn. If Colt had the offense that flynn got to command, i think he could throw good numbers too.
Lets not forget that no one whould have critisized us if we would have drafted McCoy in the first round.
Our QB situation i think is middle of the pack, put some talent around Colt and then make a choice once he's not getting his brains beat in.
Don't forget there were a few already solid teams that plugged in young QB's or not so great QB's and made it to the super bowl.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Especially if they cut the very protector of his blind side without KNOWING they can bring in a capable replacement to protect him.
If I'm Manning, Arizona concerns me because of their cap situation.
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Quote:
I really dont see how anyone can say that Colt is not as good as Flynn.
With only 2 starts against poor defensive teams it's very hard to say with any certainty that Flynn is actually good. However, if we cut McCoy right now, 32 teams out of 32 teams would probably take Flynn.
Quote:
Lets not forget that no one whould have critisized us if we would have drafted McCoy in the first round.
I'm sorry, but I don't remember being told it was a fact we could have taken McCoy in the 1st round and if we had we'd have been applauded.  We'd have been LAMBASTED if we'd wasted a 1st rounder on him. It can be argued we've actually wasted a 3rd rounder on him.
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Our QB situation i think is middle of the pack
More evaluators than not severely disagree with that statement. However, more damning than that is Heckert and Holmgren who were working feverishly to buy Robert Griffin III. If we're in a decent situation at QB we'd never try to send multiple high picks to another team for an unproven guy.
I get that your pro-McCoy, but let's not pretend the world thinks we're OK with the guy.
As for Flynn, well, lemme put it this way...as much as I think McCoy was a wasted pick and dead weight, I'd rather stick it out with him than give Flynn $40 million. Signing him is risking several more years of mediocrity for huge money, which means no cap space for several more years of spinning our tires without a really legit QB.
No thanks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
As for Flynn, well, lemme put it this way...as much as I think McCoy was a wasted pick and dead weight, I'd rather stick it out with him than give Flynn $40 million. Signing him is risking several more years of mediocrity for huge money, which means no cap space for several more years of spinning our tires without a really legit QB.
I agree with this sentiment. I'd rather be a terrible team for one more year with McCoy and then make a move next year to get a stud QB in the draft than take a chance on Flynn and be locked in to suckiness for salary reasons.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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exactly...
They cut 1/2 of what they need to with one guy, and that one guy just happens to be the most important (arguably) guy for a right handed qb coming off 4 surgeries...
And they have a poor OL anyway. Wouldn't make me feel comfortable if I were Manning.
AZ gave up the 2nd most sacks last year
Miami was the worst at sacks per dropback
Denver was a bit better (and much better when factoring in alot of Tebows sacks were him running around waiting on something to happen downfield), they have the cap space to go and get him weapons, and a good HC.
I'm starting to see why he is leaning the Broncos way (though I don't know why he isn't considering KC too)
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Just re-watched every snap of Flynn's 2 starts...hey, it's not much anyone can do it...in comparison to McCoy he's clearly better in a lot of areas, here's my breakdown:
- he was already a much better QB than Colt in 2010 against NE but he has improved in 2011
- he has pocket awareness AND keeps the eyes downfield...and his 1st move is to step INTO the pocket, not outside of it like Colt often does
- his arm strength isn't much better than Colt's but he makes much better, QUICKER decisions...didn't see many throws where the WR was waiting for the ball...he gets the ball out quickly and goes through his progressions...he's also more accurate on everything 10yds +
Overall his lack of arm strength is concerning but he's in another class than McCoy...smarter/better decisions, quicker and what he lacks in arm strength he makes for with much better anticipation (although it's tough to find a top 50 QB who's worse than Colt in this category)
Still somewhat "meh" if we should go after him, but he'd be a definite upgrade to McCoy
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Django, you could be 100% right on the money, but it's hard to take your opinion too seriously considering your overwhelming disdain for McCoy as our QB. Just makes it hard to feel like you're objective.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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lol I just gave you a breakdown of Flynn, follwed that I'm lukewarm about pursuing him and it's worth nothing because I don't like McCoy? Yeah, makes sense  Go watch the 10min of plays and dispute anything I've said...it's right there for everyone to watch As Toad said...if McCoy was cut today he would generate less interest than maybe Henne...let's imagine all starting QBs were released today and all 32 teams would have an expansion draft for QBs...Colt would go somewhere between 30th and I think he'd go 32nd because of his lack of ceiling compared to Gabbert, Ponder etc..if some backups like Flynn would be available too he might drop even further
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I agree completely, but didn't wanna open up the can-o-worms which would lead to more McCoy debates. 
Gonna steer this back to Flynn 
What those two starts ABSOLUTELY AND POSITIVELY show is that he understood his offense. He knew where to go with the ball. That's something our QB's in recent years (meaning, oh, this last generation  ) haven't been able to do.
Of course the downside is that no QB in the entire league has the full compliment of weapons that Green Bay has had these past few years. Plug in a pro-bowl QB and, well, you win a Super Bowl. 
The point there is that Flynn won't have that kinda talent anywhere else, especially here, and it's wrong to just assume we're going to acquire that kinda talent, therefore Flynn can do here what he did in Green Bay.
It really does come back to the same argument that I've used against McCoy since his Junior year: If you aren't in possession of good NFL tools, you absolutely MUST have one or two which are elite. Iffy arm? Better have elite anticipation and accuracy (Pennington). Iffy size? Better be able to move your feet to find the throwing lanes (Brees). Iffy physical tools alltogether? Better have an amazing mind (Kosar).
Flynn's games showed that he knew where to go with the ball with some degree of accuracy, but any team that throws BIG money at him is gambling their present and their future because his physical stature, wheels, and arm are all "meh".
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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just depends on what is considered "big" money and the structure of his deal depends on if you consider it "gambling their future"
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That's a good POV. Let me expound on that...
One of my huge criticisms of the drafting of first Frye and then McCoy revolved around the perceived "value" of those players relative to where they were drafted.
There's a predominant viewpoint that goes something like this:
Quote:
So what if we gambled a 3rd round pick on player-X? It's only a 3rd round pick. Those fail at a far greater rate than a 1st rounder. We took a flyer on a guy. So what if he doesn't pan out?
Here's where that idea crashes and burns...
We didn't "just" take a flyer on Charlie Frye. We also invested our FUTURE in him.
We invested two FULL seasons in him as our starter, and part of a 3rd as he was named the starter for one entire game before he was released. That's effectively three seasons where we were gambling on a very high-risk player when we should have invested in a much lower-risk player.
So we didn't just invest a 3rd rounder on him. We invested TIME, time that we cannot get back. Same goes for McCoy. People can talk all they want about whether or not he can get it done, but the FO has played their hand for all the world to see. Holmgren took a flyer on McCoy, and two years later he didn't just spend a 3rd round pick on him. He also spent TWO YEARS on him, only to reveal they believe they got it wrong by going after Griffin.
While we can debate what a "big" contract would be for Flynn, we also have to debate the time invested in him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Frye wasn't released. We traded him for a 6th rounder.
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Jeez, why not just correct my speling as well.  You know what I mean, Adam. Had we not traded him, he would have been released. Semantics.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Flynn's games showed that he knew where to go with the ball with some degree of accuracy, but any team that throws BIG money at him is gambling their present and their future because his physical stature, wheels, and arm are all "meh".
That's why I'm lukewarm...on 1 hand I want to upgrade our QB situation, we simply have to for the sake of the development of this team...otoh I realize that a "meh" Flynn could set us back even more due to wasted mediocre seasons
I like Tannehill's upside better (but his floor is much lower too) but he's not an upgrade over McCoy on day 1
That's why I wanted RG3....he was an upgrade in ceiling, day 1 excitement and wow-factor (and boy this teams needs that...the Browns could have needed a LeBron like hype)
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If it wasn't for Frye, we could of been in the Drew Brees discussion...
Yes, I'm blaming it on Frye... Cause I can!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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That's why a Kolb like contract, not money, but structure wise, would come in handy...
Arizona gave Kolb a 5 year deal...
Yet can get out of it pretty much whenever they want...
We sign Flynn to a similar deal, and if he isn't all that he's advertised as, boom he's out the door...
Maybe some other team gives him a solid concrete 5 year deal with. Obviously he'd take that. I would assume.
But I think we could protect ourselves easily...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Seems like the Dolphins are on the outside looking in when it comes to Peyton Manning. If they don't get him they immediately become the favorite for Flynn for two reasons:
1. The coach
2. Their owner will go into panic mode and sign Flynn because he will have been burned three times this off-season (Fisher, RGIII, and Manning).
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Quote:
Frye wasn't released. We traded him for a 6th rounder.
And we traded him to ....... Mike Holmgren.
There were posters on this board (or maybe it was the old board, I can't remember) who swore up and down that we had made the biggest mistake in history, and that Holmgren wouldn't have traded for Frye unless he was going to be a great QB .......... and that we would regret trading him away for next to nothing ........
Then all of that talk dried up completely as Frye did nothing in Seattle, wasn't brought back, went on the Oakland ..... and had done next to nothing there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum New Flynn Thread - yeah
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